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Ras Het
May 23, 2007

when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.
There's a Stockholm - Riga ferry route too. I don't really see the attraction of the cruise I have to say, the Baltic Sea is just a big boring lake with gently caress all to see. You'd see more of the actual countries on trains and the normal people ferries. Helsinki - Tallinn is two and and a half hours, Stockholm - Turku like ten hours.

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Wooper
Oct 16, 2006

Champion draGoon horse slayer. Making Lancers weep for their horsies since 2011. Viva Dickbutt.
Stockholm archipelago is p sweet, and getting to travel overnight in somewhat luxury(own cabin and whatnot) would be the appeal to me.

BabyJebus
Jan 19, 2006

runawayturtles posted:

My wife recently brought up Stockholm as a potential next trip, so I started working on a small itinerary that also includes Gothenburg and Copenhagen. Haven't gotten too far yet, but seems like it could be a nice 1.5 week trip or so, taking a train between each city.

I was talking to my parents the other day and they highly recommended taking a Baltic cruise instead. Normally I ignore their boomer cruise recommendations, but it does seem kind of appropriate for the Baltic region. Are there any cruises in this area that don't switch ports every single day, trying to cram in as many as possible? It would be cool to spend 2-3 days each at Copenhagen, Stockholm, Helsinki, and Tallinn, for example.

We took a Baltic cruise last summer with more or less a full day in each port but no overnights. It's not how we normally like to travel but it was an interesting way to get a little taste of each city and see where we might want to go back to for an extended visit.

There is a cruising megathread where someone might know but AFAIK most of the itineraries there are going to be one day per port. If you're really interested in Stockholm primarily/specifically you're probably better off skipping the cruise, or see if there is a cruise that starts or ends in Stockholm so you can spend a few focused days there before/after.

runawayturtles
Aug 2, 2004
Yeah, to clarify, I'm not much of a cruise person either, the appeal is primarily to take care of all the traveling overnight so we can just focus on seeing some nice cities. It kind of makes sense to me for the Baltic region because all the capitals are ports and are close enough that extra days on the water shouldn't be necessary.

BabyJebus posted:

We took a Baltic cruise last summer with more or less a full day in each port but no overnights. It's not how we normally like to travel but it was an interesting way to get a little taste of each city and see where we might want to go back to for an extended visit.

There is a cruising megathread where someone might know but AFAIK most of the itineraries there are going to be one day per port. If you're really interested in Stockholm primarily/specifically you're probably better off skipping the cruise, or see if there is a cruise that starts or ends in Stockholm so you can spend a few focused days there before/after.

I was just thinking this earlier, if there's one that begins/ends in Stockholm/Copenhagen then we could add some days before and after, seeing the same amount of those cities we ordinarily would, with some bonus days in the other capitals. Seems worth considering at least, though I expect a more standard trip with a couple trains is still more likely due to our schedule inflexibility.

Fruits of the sea
Dec 1, 2010

Entropist posted:

If you enjoy decaying minor rural cities that have clearly seen better days there should be some cool places to stop.

This is valid for a huge swathe of France, to be fair :v:

EricBauman
Nov 30, 2005

DOLF IS RECHTVAARDIG

runawayturtles posted:

Yeah, to clarify, I'm not much of a cruise person either, the appeal is primarily to take care of all the traveling overnight so we can just focus on seeing some nice cities. It kind of makes sense to me for the Baltic region because all the capitals are ports and are close enough that extra days on the water shouldn't be necessary.

Most of the cities in the region are an hour's flight apart (or at least you can choose a route that works that way), and the airports are close to the cities, so while I understand wanting to travel without any effort, the travelling in the region doesn't take that much time and effort

Threadkiller Dog
Jun 9, 2010
The stockholm<>copenhagen train ride is pretty sweet as an option. There is a sleeper train also iirc.

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


We did a cool trip Copenhagen - Helsingor - Oslo - Bergen by train, would strongly recommend. Not the fastes trains but the distances aren't huge and the scenery is gorgeous in places. You could fly back, or get a boat back if you wanted a loop.

Residency Evil
Jul 28, 2003

4/5 godo... Schumi

runawayturtles posted:

My wife recently brought up Stockholm as a potential next trip, so I started working on a small itinerary that also includes Gothenburg and Copenhagen. Haven't gotten too far yet, but seems like it could be a nice 1.5 week trip or so, taking a train between each city.

I was talking to my parents the other day and they highly recommended taking a Baltic cruise instead. Normally I ignore their boomer cruise recommendations, but it does seem kind of appropriate for the Baltic region. Are there any cruises in this area that don't switch ports every single day, trying to cram in as many as possible? It would be cool to spend 2-3 days each at Copenhagen, Stockholm, Helsinki, and Tallinn, for example.

We're doing Stockholm and Copenhagen in May, taking the train between the two. :toot:

Entropist
Dec 1, 2007
I'm very stupid.

Sai posted:

1. The new public library is awesome just by itself, but it also has a splendid terrace that gives a great view of the city. The restaurant isn't very good, but next to it is a Va Piano, which is surprisingly tasty given that it's a German chain restaurant serving Italian food. But trust me, it's all fresh, you can pick your own ingredients and it's very cheap.
2.'In de Wildeman' isn't just a bar, it's a 'proeflokaal', which translates to something like 'tastingroom'. They've got over two hundred different bottled beers for tasting and another eightteen on tap. The owners are friendly and can tell you everything you've ever wanted to know about beer.
3. Apart from the pretty cool building the NEMO Science museum itself isn't very interesting. It's mostly for kids and like most science musea it all kind of feels instantly dated. The cool thing is the roof. In the summer a miniature artificial beach is created and people sun, drink and generally have a good time.
4. Brouwerij 't IJ is a brewery in a windmill. If you don't think that's awesome I don't know what to tell you. It's absolutely great (though heavy!) stuff too and the next door pub is always full of locals. They also give tours to small groups, which is an infinitely cooler experience than the one they give at the Heineken building.
5. De Negen Straatjes (The Nine little streets) are the heart of Amsterdam's fashion business. Smaller, exclusive brands together with galleries, cafe's and one of the prettiest parts of Amsterdam. This is where people with taste from all over the Netherlands come to shop instead of the gaudy PC Hooftstraat.
6. All English movies are subtitled in The Netherlands so there's no reason not to watch one in the beautiful art deco Tuschinsky Theater. The interior, recently renovated, is itself worth the price of admission. Try to go to a movie in the huge Zaal 1.
7. The Van Gogh is okay but expensive and The Rijksmuseum is taking forever to renovate so instead go to the Amsterdam dependance of the Russian Hermitage. It's got a very good selection of its own and there are always some masterworks on loan from the Hermitage in St. Petersburg.
8. FOAM, Amsterdam's photography museum. Unlike the Hermitage this one is pretty small, you can walk through it in just over an hour, but it's cheap and a lot of fun. It attracts young creatives and the exhibitions change frequently.
9. Most people who have visited Amsterdam have come in contact with the 'kroket', often from the FEBO. Those are disgusting. The real deal can be found at Amsterdam's best bakery: Patisserie Holtkamp. Their shrimp-kroketten are the best in the nation, but they also make the most delicious cakes and other sweet stuff. The royal family is a loyal customer. A couple houses down the street is Mellow Yellow, The Netherlands oldest coffe shop and a chill place.
10. Hap Hmm is pretty much the most authentic place to eat in all of Amsterdam. That isn't exactly a recommendation, because the food is kinda bland, the atmosphere is dusty and if you arrive after seven you're late. It's an old soup kitchen, that still serves typical Dutch food (meat + potatoes + cooked vegetables) for next to nothing and it's one of the last surviving instances of 'real' (but almost extinct) Amsterdam.
11. The Hollandsche Manege in the Vondelstraat. Amsterdam mostly consists of 16th-18th century architecture but this neoclassical riding school is a beautiful example from the 19th century. Freely accessible and with a richly ornate interior it's one of Amsterdam's best kept secrets. You can watch lessons and dressage competitions from the balustrades while drinking a cup of tea from the (kinda lovely) cafe.
12. Tourists and people from outside the city will choose Vertigo at the entrance of the Vondelpark, and even though their terrace is really pretty service is crap and prices way too high. Instead walk a little further to Het Blauwe Theehuis. Packed all year round if the weather is good, a place to completely relax and enjoy a mint tea or a witbier in summer, hot chocolate or something stronger in winter.
13. The Albert Cuyp market is the largest daily market in Europe, and even though other markets in Amsterdam are more varied there's still nothing that beats the Albert Cuyp. Food, antiques, lovely art, crap clothing, busy as hell. There's no place more vibrant than this in the entire country.

goodness posted:

Is this stuff still valid 14 years late? The videos are dead but I'll be in Amsterdam for 2 days in June with some friends. Never been before and definitely trying to avoid touristy things for the sake of tourism.

I've lived in Amsterdam for over 10 years now and most of this still works, though maybe my own knowledge is not up to date. Of course there are also many things we could add now. So here's an update.

1: The Vapiano disappeared a while ago, now there is a Korean place I never checked out. The top floor restaurant also changed.
2: Still great
3: Roof is still there
4: Should still be good, I don't know if they do the tours still
5: Rents went through the roof there and some of the independent stuff has been pushed out, but it's still more or less true, though more expensive now. I am not sure what the replacement is either, probably you won't find it in Amsterdam. Unless it's those big vintage clothing markets up in Noord at IJhallen.
6: Classic, will not change
7: Renovations on the Rijksmuseum have long since finished. It is worth it and you could go there for multiple days. This Hermitage place cut its ties with Russia due to the invasion and has a new dumb name now and random exhibitions. Go to the Tropenmuseum instead.
8: Probably still good
9: They actually stopped selling these some months ago, quite a tragedy! You can only get them in restaurants now, and they have frozen ones. Go to Van Dobben instead for the true Amsterdam experience, and that place is never going to change.
10: This is still going thankfully, although a bunch of other top choices for eating Dutch food have disappeared.
11: A former colleague of mine works there now, still exists
12: Last time I checked this place changed ownership to the IJ brewery from point 4. Seems like an improvement to me!
13: Still good, also in these days a great alternative to a lot of the overpriced tourist tiktok food nonsense in the center.

runawayturtles
Aug 2, 2004

Residency Evil posted:

We're doing Stockholm and Copenhagen in May, taking the train between the two. :toot:

Yeah I saw that upthread, something about doctors wanting to visit Sweden this time of year... no toddler here though :v:

Threadkiller Dog posted:

The stockholm<>copenhagen train ride is pretty sweet as an option. There is a sleeper train also iirc.

Is it the direct line that's sweet or is it similarly nice with Gothenburg in the middle?

Threadkiller Dog
Jun 9, 2010

runawayturtles posted:

Is it the direct line that's sweet or is it similarly nice with Gothenburg in the middle?
Yeah I'm thinking of the direct bullet train-ish stockholm-copenhagen line which is about 5h between the central stations and has nice scenery - i'd' rather do that again than flying.

I haven't gone copenhagen-gothenburg via train but its of course also an option and a bit quickre at about 4h (though by Öresundståg which is a commuter/trunk line and not as flashy).

Threadkiller Dog fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Mar 26, 2024

Bollock Monkey
Jan 21, 2007

The Almighty
I thought I'd do a little write up (or effortpost, as it seems to have turned out) of my recent trip to Tirana (Albania), Ohrid and Skopje (North Macedonia).

Day 1 Luton -> Tirana
Got into the hotel at about 2pm and spent the afternoon getting our bearings and having a general wander around the city centre. It felt safe and has some interesting architecture. The main square, Skanderberg Square, is pretty sizeable and good for people-watching. The front of the National Museum has a cool mosaic, too. Our first impressions were that this is a city very much in transition from old to new, and it'll be somewhere that will be very different in 5 years' time. It's nestled into mountains, which made for some interesting views even in urban areas.









Day 2 Tirana - Dajti Express; BunkArt 2; National Museum
The Dajti Ekspres is a cable car just outside the city and easily accessible by (slightly confusing but ultimately fine) local bus. The bus was insanely cheap, just a few cents, and the cable car was definitely worth doing for the views. You can see over Tirana and out to Durrės, which is on the coast. Near to the cable car you can also go to BunkArt, which is a museum/art gallery inside one of Albania's 750,000+ bunkers built by the paranoid and hostile leader, Enver Hoxha. Unfortunately, BunkArt was closed on the day we were there, so we went to its sister site back in the city centre, BunkArt 2.

BunkArt2 was... an experience. Incredibly information-dense and poorly translated, I know it was telling the story of the national security and police forces, the evils of communism, and, er, etc... It was not a great museum experience. But hey, got to go in a bunker! There were lots of blown-up black and white images of people being hanged by the state, or who had been shot down trying to escape, etc, which to me gave it a weird vibe of the Wild West Internet of the early 2000s when shock sites were popular. Still, overall not very upsetting, but pretty incomprehensible. It did have a creepy sculpture thing, though.

The National Museum followed the trend with being information-dense, with huge parts with simply no English translation. The exhibitions from prehistory were kinda cool if you like pots and jewellery and that standard museum fodder. Two huge rooms are dedicated to the slide from Fascism to Communism, and again lots of photos of people dead, dying, or suffering, as well as bloodied shirts and things that had been recovered. Fairly interesting where there was English to be read, but not at all lighthearted subject matter.





Day 3 Tirana - House of Leaves; Grand Park
House of Leaves was a better-curated museum, also dedicated to the evils of communism - this time, the rampant spying on the populace. It was interesting and more understandable than the other museums, and the building itself was quite cool. I would definitely recommend going here.

The Grand Park was nice to walk around, but it was a fairly cold day in March so clearly wasn't as its best as a pursuit. I bet it would be lovely in the warmer months, lively and perfect for a stroll and an ice cream.



In terms of food and drink, Tirana has a great café/bar culture and there are loads of cool spots to check out. We found that eating out for dinner was a bit harder than expected, possibly due to the time of year or the days of the week we were there (Sun-Wed). Lots of places seemed to shut early or had few things on the menu, but we managed fine. We went to Oda Garden after people recommended it, and it was only ok, so I won't add to the recs.

Drinks recommendations:
Hemingway Bar, which was great for spirits and a short cocktail list in a funky environment. Komiteti,which has poo poo service but a really cool environment, and raki cocktails as well as coffee, beer, etc. Si Dielli, just a simple bar but two good, local beers and you're right on a market square.

Day 4 Tirana -> Ohrid - Petrelė Castle; Sunset at Sveti Jovan
We hired a driver to take us to Ohrid, because it was about €130 and seemed like much less faff than patchy long-distance buses over a border. It took about 3 hours and we stopped off at Petrelė Castle on the way, which is just an old castle but had awesome views - I am glad we were able to tack this on as a little hour-long stop off.

We stayed in Ohrid Old Town, in a little studio apartment overlooking the lake. Stunning! And the old town was so quiet. March is very much off season, so there was hardly anyone around. The downside was that loads of places were completely closed, or had hardly anyone in, so there were a few places we'd wanted to eat that we couldn't go to. It was a lovely place to wander around though, and the difference between the old and new towns was interesting to see. There are loads of churches, lots of them really old and/or pretty. I'd be so interested to go again in April/May but before the tourist crowds really start for summer.





Day 5 Ohrid - Bay of Bones; St Naum Monastery
Because it was the off season, the usual boats that take you across Lake Ohrid were not running so we spent €50 on a driver after messaging a few companies who said they didn't have anyone available. He took us to the Bay of Bones Museum, an outdoor replica of pile houses from thousands of years ago, and then on to St Naum Monastery.

Both were interesting in their own rights, and you can look them up. I was so glad to have been as lucky as we were with weather on this day though, because the views were something else. Just stunning blue water, snowcapped mountains, warm sunshine, and sandy beaches all at the same time.

Back in the old town, we had time to pop into the National Workshop For Handmade Paper - essentially a guy running a gift shop of his handmade paper that he prints onto using a replica Gutenberg press, but that is genuinely interesting. He shows you how you take the pulp from wood, pan it like panning for gold, then dry it under weight and then hung up for several days. I definitely think you should check him out if you're in Ohrid, and get some decently-priced souvenirs!









Day 6 Ohrid -> Skopje
We got a cheap, easy and comfortable bus from Ohrid to Skopje, which took about 3-4 hours. Arriving in the early afternoon, we explored the Old Bazaar and were amused? Astounded? Perturbed? To find that realistic-looking BB guns, knuckledusters, and flick knives were openly for sale at loads of the stalls. Just the other side, there were loads of places to eat, drink, and pray. What a mishmash of things!

Skopje had a massive regeneration project in 2014 to boost tourism, and it's made for a fascinating city. There are loads of statues, like, everywhere, and architecture made deliberately to mimic neoclassical style (also strange, gaudy, fake boats along the river - one of which is the hotel we stayed in). That's alongside the remaining brutalist buildings, such as the old shopping centre/mall - where there were protests when it was proposed that it would be demolished, because despite the ugly brutalist architecture, it stood as a reminder of the end of Communism.





Day 7 Skopje - Walking tour; museums
We joined a 10am free walking tour from the main square, and it was brilliant! We learnt so much and it really helped us connect up bits of the city we'd been aimlessly exploring the previous afternoon. We got explanations of some of the bizarre statues and buildings, and the guide was really great at giving practical tips for how to get around or what else to do. I can highly recommend.

Afterwards, we visited the Museum of the Macedonian Struggle, and wow. What a museum. Another information-dense and not always perfectly translated (though better than in Albania) set of exhibitions, which at first were standard museum fare. And then the waxworks began in earnest. I'm going to upload a video because the experience was utterly surreal and hard to explain.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUdOMxWOY3Y

Day 8 Skopje - Matka Canyon
Our last day was spent doing a bit more bimbling around before going to Matka Canyon for a few hours in the afternoon. There are lots of boat trips that will take you through the canyon, with a brief stop at a cave (which was only an ok cave, not that impressive). It was a really cool way to see the canyon, more of that gorgeous emerald water, and we also ended up chatting to an Australian couple who were travelling Europe. The canyon was easy to get to, about 30mins outside the city, and made a nice end to a busy trip.





In terms of Skopje recommendations, Restaurant Old House was quite nice and had a cool environment, but you should probably book ahead. We ended up at this pub a few times because it was in a convenient location and had an easy-going vibe. The best meal of the holiday was at Skopski Merak - get the beans!

I can definitely recommend heading Balkans-wards for your next trip. It was cheap, felt safe, had lots of interesting stuff, and definitely gains you street cred for going to places other people haven't made it yet. I think that'll change in the next few years, so go now! Before the tourists ruin it! etc.

e: fixing links

Bollock Monkey fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Mar 28, 2024

Saladman
Jan 12, 2010
Looks neat! Nice to see some trip reports + photos of relatively unusual places. I don't think I know anyone personally who has been to Albania, and not many to North Macedonia. I bought Bradt's North Macedonia guide and read through it a few months ago, looked like it was fairly interesting but not so stunning that it would become the next tourist-swarmed Montenegro - with all the upsides and downsides that come along with that statement.

Albania's always interested me too, both for the scenery (I can't get enough of mountains + sea, especially simultaneously) and the unique culture (both historical and Cold War era). It's also amazing how much the Balkans have developed in the past 15 years; their GDP per capita has like, tripled, in every country. I guess like what happened to central-eastern Europe in the late 90s-early 2010s.

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Ferdinand Bardamu
Apr 30, 2013
that trip looks great, now I want to go too lol.

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