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81sidewinder
Sep 8, 2014

Buying stocks on the day of the crash

A Sneaker Broker posted:

About 2% through Chapter 18 of Final Empire and I have to say

I’m picturing Elend Venture as a more annoying Robert Downey Jr.

This is kind of perfect, come back to this idea when you finish the trilogy.

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Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!
:siren: EXCESSIVELY WORDY POST INCOMING :siren:

I'm still chugging through Oathbringer at my average pace (about at the end of part 1).

So lacking much to say about that right now, I want to talk about two general Cosmere terms and their mechanics/implications: Cognitive Shadows and World Hoppers.

At this point, my remaining gaps in the Cosmere are:
- Dawnshard
- Rhythm of War
- Tress of the Emerald Sea
- Yumi and the Nightmare Painter
- The Sunlit Man
- Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell
- Sixth of the Dusk
- White Sand

I feel like the thoughts and questions I am going to bring up will fall into one of three camps:

1 - RAFO (it is known but I haven't gotten there yet)
2 - Future RAFO (it is not currently known but likely will in the future)
3 - A Wizard Did It (there has not been and will not be explanations)

I will lay out what I understand and then transition in to questions.

Cognitive Shadows - What I Know -
The Cosmere is split into three realms. The Physical (for the body), the Cognitive Realm (for the mind), and the Spiritual Realm (for the soul).

There is also the Beyond, where people go after their moment in the Cognitive realm, but that is, for all intents and purposes, the "True" afterlife and Brandon's way of saying "This character is gone for good. Their story is fully over."

When your body dies, your consciousness can still exist as a Cognitive Shadow and not move on to the Beyond. This is often based off how Invested you were. If you were super invested (such as having held a Shard), you can stay around forever and not pass on. You become a Cognitive Shadow. Cognitive Shadows are, to overly simplify it, the Cosmere version of ghosts.

At this point, my most prominent example of a Cognitive Shadow is Kelsier in Secret History. However, in The Lost Metal, he is in a body again (that looks like him, mostly). So, somehow, you can shove a Cognitive Shadow back into a body.

We also see that you do not need to be a Cognitive Shadow to visit the Cognitive Realm/Shadesmar. Shallan and Jasnah both do it. So does MeLaan.


Cognitive Shadows - My Questions -
1 - If you become a Cognitive Shadow via your original body's death, if you get shoved into a new body in the physical realm, does that body age?

2 - If a Cognitive Shadow is attached to a new body, is it a permanent thing? Will the "actually" die if that body dies or do they just go back to being a Cognitive Shadow?

3 - I guess The Returned in Warbreaker are all just Cognitive Shadows, right?

4 - When a person moves from the Physical Realm to the Cognitive Realm, is their physical body moving their or are they separating their mind from body? (In FFXIV Shadowbringers Terms - Are they like the Scions or like the Warrior of Light?)


World Hoppers - What I Know -
While you could definitely travel through worlds via space travel, that requires technology. The easiest way to travel via worlds is the Perpendicularity - aka a concentration of Investiture that takes you to the Cognitive Realm - which is easier to navigate than OUTER SPACE. And, some people can just hop into the Cognitive Realm whenever they want (Jasnah/Shallan).

World Hoppers - My Questions -
1 - The first comes with regard to aging. For someone like Vasher, he's (I guess) a Cognitive Shadow, so he's operating under different rules. But when you have Galladon hanging out with Demoux and others all from different time periods - How are they not aging?

2 - Could someone be born in the Cognitive Realm? Is there any limitation on physical matter?

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Mordiceius posted:

Cognitive Shadows - My Questions -
1 - If you become a Cognitive Shadow via your original body's death, if you get shoved into a new body in the physical realm, does that body age?

2 - If a Cognitive Shadow is attached to a new body, is it a permanent thing? Will the "actually" die if that body dies or do they just go back to being a Cognitive Shadow?

3 - I guess The Returned in Warbreaker are all just Cognitive Shadows, right?

4 - When a person moves from the Physical Realm to the Cognitive Realm, is their physical body moving their or are they separating their mind from body? (In FFXIV Shadowbringers Terms - Are they like the Scions or like the Warrior of Light?)
1 - That'd depend quite a bit on the body in question, wouldn't it?

2 - RAFO but also it depends on the specific circumstances

3 - That's a solid guess, yeah.

4 - It's your entire physical body, so WoL method. With the exception of some Soulcasters sometimes; Shallan can't physically transport herself to the Cognitive at will the way that Jasnah can, but she sure feels like she's there. But, like, most people, and if you're hopping through a Perpendicularity, that's your whole physical body.

quote:

World Hoppers - My Questions -
1 - The first comes with regard to aging. For someone like Vasher, he's (I guess) a Cognitive Shadow, so he's operating under different rules. But when you have Galladon hanging out with Demoux and others all from different time periods - How are they not aging?

2 - Could someone be born in the Cognitive Realm? Is there any limitation on physical matter?

1 - We don't know! Future RAFO, but it's honestly not that hard to stop aging if you're sufficiently invested. Galladon's an Elantrian, as for the others, maybe they just picked up some Breaths?

2 - Good question! Don't think that's ever been answered but I also don't think there's any reason why it wouldn't work.

theysayheygreg
Oct 5, 2010

some rusty fish

CapnAndy posted:


2 - Good question! Don't think that's ever been answered but I also don't think there's any reason why it wouldn't work.


The answer is yes, people can be born in the Cognitive Realm, and by the time of the Stormlight Archive, readers have even met one!

Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!
Ah. Okay. That all makes sense.

CapnAndy posted:

1 - We don't know! Future RAFO, but it's honestly not that hard to stop aging if you're sufficiently invested. Galladon's an Elantrian, as for the others, maybe they just picked up some Breaths?

I think one thing that I keep forgetting is Investiture is Investiture. Whether it is a sphere of Stormlight, a Breathe, or whatever else.

So we can presuppose that if someone sucked in enough Stormlight, they would stop aging. I've heard that The Sunlit Man codifies "Breath" as the measurement system for personal investiture - I think that's neat!


Taking this conversation to Investiture talk I find it interesting how stable vs unstable different forms of Investiture are. Breaths on Nalthis are incredibly stable. You hold that investiture until you give it away or die. Stormlight is incredibly unstable. You can suck in a bunch of it but it burns away at a rapid pace. Scadrial investiture is interesting since you have to burn metals to "activate" it and I'm not sure there is any way to "store" that investiture other than a gently caress ton of Hemalurgy.

But then this begs the question with regard to Cognitive Shadows Why do the Returned need Investiture to keep them alive when it does not seem like Kelsier does? I guess this could be explained by the method of making a Cognitive Shadow. The Returned, perhaps, are a more "unstable" Cognitive Shadow? Kelsier, since he held Preservation, is a "Stable" Cognitive Shadow?

I've seen that the Heralds are also Cognitive Shadows (yeah, a spoiler, but it doesn't bother me), and I assume they don't require Investiture to stay alive like a Returned does, so I assume they had a big Investiture infusion initially from Honor or something along those lines to make them "stable" in the way of Kelsier.

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom Vroom, BEEP BEEP!
Nap Ghost

Mordiceius posted:

Ah. Okay. That all makes sense.

I think one thing that I keep forgetting is Investiture is Investiture. Whether it is a sphere of Stormlight, a Breathe, or whatever else.

So we can presuppose that if someone sucked in enough Stormlight, they would stop aging. I've heard that The Sunlit Man codifies "Breath" as the measurement system for personal investiture - I think that's neat!


Taking this conversation to Investiture talk I find it interesting how stable vs unstable different forms of Investiture are. Breaths on Nalthis are incredibly stable. You hold that investiture until you give it away or die. Stormlight is incredibly unstable. You can suck in a bunch of it but it burns away at a rapid pace. Scadrial investiture is interesting since you have to burn metals to "activate" it and I'm not sure there is any way to "store" that investiture other than a gently caress ton of Hemalurgy.

But then this begs the question with regard to Cognitive Shadows Why do the Returned need Investiture to keep them alive when it does not seem like Kelsier does? I guess this could be explained by the method of making a Cognitive Shadow. The Returned, perhaps, are a more "unstable" Cognitive Shadow? Kelsier, since he held Preservation, is a "Stable" Cognitive Shadow?

I've seen that the Heralds are also Cognitive Shadows (yeah, a spoiler, but it doesn't bother me), and I assume they don't require Investiture to stay alive like a Returned does, so I assume they had a big Investiture infusion initially from Honor or something along those lines to make them "stable" in the way of Kelsier.


Investiture is Investiture, but the rules for its use and access are shaped and driven by the Shard through which it's filtered

Nalthis, powered by Endowment, bestows investiture as a Breath given at birth and is thus quantized (which is also why it makes a convenient standard of measurement later!) and is transferred by giving it away or Awakening to bestow it upon others.

Sel, the work of Devotion and Dominion, has Investiture driven by connection to a particular area of land defined by national borders. The particular method is always accessible and effectively infinite within those borders but gets weaker the further from them the practitioner goes.

Scadrial, the combined efforts of Preservation and Ruin, are a little weird in that you get Allomancy, Hemalurgy, and Feruchemy from their interactions. Hemalurgy makes sense for Ruin, as it requires destruction to steal abilities. Allomancy is often associated with Preservation, but I argue that Feruchemy makes more sense as it preserves abilities and Allomancy results from the combination of Ruin and Preservation. Regardless, for these three systems the access to Investiture is tied to contact with metals - Hemalurgy steals a bit of Spirit web and destroys a portion in the process, Feruchemy stores abilities as Investiture, and Allomancy creates new abilities by pulling investiture with the consumption of metals. (Also this is how your store Allomantic Investiture, with metalminds, however getting the right pairing of abilities is astoundingly rare without unkeyed metalminds, god metals, or abuse of hemalurgy)


So "stability" isn't exactly the way I'd look at things. The Investiture itself isn't stable or unstable, the rules around its use determines its persistence

Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!

DarkHorse posted:

So "stability" isn't exactly the way I'd look at things. The Investiture itself isn't stable or unstable, the rules around its use determines its persistence

That's a fantastic breakdown.

I love trying to figure out how these pieces slot together and/or (by design) clash.

Aging - It is interesting to think about how each society would reach "Agelessness" using only their "local" magic systems/investiture.

It requires 2000 Breath to reach agelessness - which just happens to be the value of the Divine Breath that Returned have.

For someone on Nalthis, you just need to acquire the 2000 breaths. This one seems the most straight forward.

For someone on Sel, Elantrians are immortal. So their default Investiture level is, at minimum, 2000 and probably actually significantly higher. If their Investiture level is location based, would that mean that their abilities would diminish the further from Sel? An Elantrian on Roshar would be less powerful than an Elantrian on Sel. Could an Elantrian get far enough away from Sel that they get below that 2000 Breath threshold and start aging?

As for Scadrial - I was looking at the Metallic Arts of Scadrial and saw that Cadmium stores Breath, but turns out that is breath as in air and breathing, not BIoChromatic Breath. Nicrosil specifically stores Investiture. So the only way to reach that Immortality stage as a Scadrain would be if you have the Feurochemical ability to tap Nicrosil. But that doesn't seem like it would be enough on its own because sure, you could store Investiture, but how would you get enough Investiture to store. And, would this even count in the first place? Because I feel like you need to be "holding" that Investiture within yourself. If that Investiture is in your Metalmind, it's not really within you, is it?

Roshar is the big question mark to me. There seems to be no way to "hold" Stormlight over an extended time. Stormlight seems extremely volatile. If it is within a person, it leaves through their mouth and radiates out of their skin. If it is held within a gemstone/fabrial, it is still and imperfect container and leaks over time until it is all gone. I feel like a Rosharan could hold 2000 breath of Stormlight, but they would lose it quickly.

pik_d
Feb 24, 2006

follow the white dove





TRP Post of the Month October 2021

Mordiceius posted:

That's a fantastic breakdown.

I love trying to figure out how these pieces slot together and/or (by design) clash.

Aging - It is interesting to think about how each society would reach "Agelessness" using only their "local" magic systems/investiture.

It requires 2000 Breath to reach agelessness - which just happens to be the value of the Divine Breath that Returned have.

For someone on Nalthis, you just need to acquire the 2000 breaths. This one seems the most straight forward.

For someone on Sel, Elantrians are immortal. So their default Investiture level is, at minimum, 2000 and probably actually significantly higher. If their Investiture level is location based, would that mean that their abilities would diminish the further from Sel? An Elantrian on Roshar would be less powerful than an Elantrian on Sel. Could an Elantrian get far enough away from Sel that they get below that 2000 Breath threshold and start aging?

As for Scadrial - I was looking at the Metallic Arts of Scadrial and saw that Cadmium stores Breath, but turns out that is breath as in air and breathing, not BIoChromatic Breath. Nicrosil specifically stores Investiture. So the only way to reach that Immortality stage as a Scadrain would be if you have the Feurochemical ability to tap Nicrosil. But that doesn't seem like it would be enough on its own because sure, you could store Investiture, but how would you get enough Investiture to store. And, would this even count in the first place? Because I feel like you need to be "holding" that Investiture within yourself. If that Investiture is in your Metalmind, it's not really within you, is it?

Roshar is the big question mark to me. There seems to be no way to "hold" Stormlight over an extended time. Stormlight seems extremely volatile. If it is within a person, it leaves through their mouth and radiates out of their skin. If it is held within a gemstone/fabrial, it is still and imperfect container and leaks over time until it is all gone. I feel like a Rosharan could hold 2000 breath of Stormlight, but they would lose it quickly.


Scadrial - I feel like you're being arbitrary by trying to use Investiture to achieve agelessness and just ignoring that the Lord Ruler used Atium compounding? And if storing Investiture would have the benefit you think, the way to do it would be to be a Nicrosil Compounder and do it that way.

Roshar - There are several characters that seem to be Immortal on Roshar already, how are they doing it?

TGG
Aug 8, 2003

"I Dare."

Mordiceius posted:

That's a fantastic breakdown.

I love trying to figure out how these pieces slot together and/or (by design) clash.

Aging - It is interesting to think about how each society would reach "Agelessness" using only their "local" magic systems/investiture.

It requires 2000 Breath to reach agelessness - which just happens to be the value of the Divine Breath that Returned have.

For someone on Nalthis, you just need to acquire the 2000 breaths. This one seems the most straight forward.

For someone on Sel, Elantrians are immortal. So their default Investiture level is, at minimum, 2000 and probably actually significantly higher. If their Investiture level is location based, would that mean that their abilities would diminish the further from Sel? An Elantrian on Roshar would be less powerful than an Elantrian on Sel. Could an Elantrian get far enough away from Sel that they get below that 2000 Breath threshold and start aging?

As for Scadrial - I was looking at the Metallic Arts of Scadrial and saw that Cadmium stores Breath, but turns out that is breath as in air and breathing, not BIoChromatic Breath. Nicrosil specifically stores Investiture. So the only way to reach that Immortality stage as a Scadrain would be if you have the Feurochemical ability to tap Nicrosil. But that doesn't seem like it would be enough on its own because sure, you could store Investiture, but how would you get enough Investiture to store. And, would this even count in the first place? Because I feel like you need to be "holding" that Investiture within yourself. If that Investiture is in your Metalmind, it's not really within you, is it?

Roshar is the big question mark to me. There seems to be no way to "hold" Stormlight over an extended time. Stormlight seems extremely volatile. If it is within a person, it leaves through their mouth and radiates out of their skin. If it is held within a gemstone/fabrial, it is still and imperfect container and leaks over time until it is all gone. I feel like a Rosharan could hold 2000 breath of Stormlight, but they would lose it quickly.


Investiture- Scadrial If someone who were already invested and could feruchemically invest an un-keyed metalmind NICROSIL is what i was looking for they could invest that metal mind with raw investiture. Someone else could then tap that un-keyed metalmind and then pull raw investiture from that. Pardon, I am on some new medication and writing has become quite difficult.

TGG fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Mar 28, 2024

eke out
Feb 24, 2013



Mordiceius posted:

That's a fantastic breakdown.

I love trying to figure out how these pieces slot together and/or (by design) clash.

Aging -
As for Scadrial - I was looking at the Metallic Arts of Scadrial and saw that Cadmium stores Breath, but turns out that is breath as in air and breathing, not BIoChromatic Breath. Nicrosil specifically stores Investiture. So the only way to reach that Immortality stage as a Scadrain would be if you have the Feurochemical ability to tap Nicrosil. But that doesn't seem like it would be enough on its own because sure, you could store Investiture, but how would you get enough Investiture to store. And, would this even count in the first place? Because I feel like you need to be "holding" that Investiture within yourself. If that Investiture is in your Metalmind, it's not really within you, is it?

Roshar is the big question mark to me. There seems to be no way to "hold" Stormlight over an extended time. Stormlight seems extremely volatile. If it is within a person, it leaves through their mouth and radiates out of their skin. If it is held within a gemstone/fabrial, it is still and imperfect container and leaks over time until it is all gone. I feel like a Rosharan could hold 2000 breath of Stormlight, but they would lose it quickly.


i think this is right and it's a key distinction, whether the magic is actually stored "in you" - as with Breaths - versus systems where the investiture flows through you but doesn't really reside in your body/spirit/whatever for very long.

seems like the tradeoff is that when the magic is in you you start getting a bunch of physical benefits, but the amount you can use is much more finite, while in systems where it flows through you like Stormlight or the Metallic Arts you can wield far more total power but don't get the spillover benefits

eke out fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Mar 28, 2024

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

pik_d posted:

Scadrial - I feel like you're being arbitrary by trying to use Investiture to achieve agelessness and just ignoring that the Lord Ruler used Atium compounding? And if storing Investiture would have the benefit you think, the way to do it would be to be a Nicrosil Compounder and do it that way.
Yeah, but that wasn't "true" agelessness. He aged and could've died of old age at any time. He was exploiting Compounding both ways by storing more youth than he was contributing, and then drawing more youth than he'd stored. An Elantrian or Returned doesn't need cheap tricks like that, they have no aging to mitigate.

Mordiceius
Nov 10, 2007

If you think calling me names is gonna get a rise out me, think again. I like my life as an idiot!

pik_d posted:

Roshar - There are several characters that seem to be Immortal on Roshar already, how are they doing it?

Well with Roshar the only ageless I know of are the Heralds. And they’re Cognitive Shadows, so that’s a different conversation. How would a mortal Rosharan reach agelessness?

Ojjeorago
Sep 21, 2008

I had a dream, too. It wasn't pleasant, though ... I dreamt I was a moron...
Gary’s Answer

pik_d posted:

Scadrial - I feel like you're being arbitrary by trying to use Investiture to achieve agelessness and just ignoring that the Lord Ruler used Atium compounding? And if storing Investiture would have the benefit you think, the way to do it would be to be a Nicrosil Compounder and do it that way.

Scadrial/General Cosmere Mechanics They're also forgetting bendalloy and cadmium Allomancy shenanigans which is how at least one previously mentioned character is probably doing it.

Half of Dracula
Oct 24, 2008

Perhaps the same could be

Mordiceius posted:

Well with Roshar the only ageless I know of are the Heralds. And they’re Cognitive Shadows, so that’s a different conversation. How would a mortal Rosharan reach agelessness?

The ancient words must be spoken again. My oath... "I will not die."

This might be legit though, especially with Honor's influence it seems like swearing the right kind of oath could make you ageless. Heralds got there somehow

socialsecurity
Aug 30, 2003





Half of Dracula posted:

The ancient words must be spoken again. My oath... "I will not die."

This might be legit though, especially with Honor's influence it seems like swearing the right kind of oath could make you ageless. Heralds got there somehow

were the Gerald's ever like regular people? I assumed honor just sort of made them.

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom Vroom, BEEP BEEP!
Nap Ghost

socialsecurity posted:

were the Gerald's ever like regular people? I assumed honor just sort of made them.

They were explicitly regular people that made an Oathpact with Honor - the deal was Roshar was safe from invasion from Odium and Braize as long as they withstood torture, and once one broke they got sent back to fight off the invasion (called Desolations). In exchange for this lovely deal they got the Honorblades and immortality (and the ability to protect their new home, of course).

Turns out centuries of recurrent torture and constant warfare aren't great for a former-mortal's psyche...

Slanderer
May 6, 2007

CapnAndy posted:

Yeah, but that wasn't "true" agelessness. He aged and could've died of old age at any time. He was exploiting Compounding both ways by storing more youth than he was contributing, and then drawing more youth than he'd stored. An Elantrian or Returned doesn't need cheap tricks like that, they have no aging to mitigate.

Also Brandon previously said that despite the exponential nature of compounding (which confusing he previously used to describe tapping metalminds at a greater rate?), age was still catching up to the lord ruler:

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)
Feruchemy is about multipliers. The more the Lord Ruler aged, the less "multiplier" he could store in his metalmind. And the more he aged the more he would need to Compound to stay alive. There could exist an upper bound to the amount of time the Lord Ruler could survive off this trick.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/246/#e5504

This is obviously not verbatim, so it could be losing on detail, but I had previously gotten the impression that Brandon didn't want true immortality to be very accessible (I forget what investitures might have run into issues with life extension). Alternatively, since Brandon recently retconned Atium via the Word of Brandon (atium in Mistborn era 1 was actually an atium/gold alloy), then maybe it could be an "out" to explain why the lord ruler's atium trick wasn't unlimited (and that maybe another character could live forever with pure atium).We'll see.

Slanderer
May 6, 2007

Mordiceius posted:

Cognitive Shadows - What I Know -

When your body dies, your consciousness can still exist as a Cognitive Shadow and not move on to the Beyond. This is often based off how Invested you were. If you were super invested (such as having held a Shard), you can stay around forever and not pass on. You become a Cognitive Shadow. Cognitive Shadows are, to overly simplify it, the Cosmere version of ghosts.

Just wanted to expand on this--Brandon was previously cagey about whether Cognitive Shadows are truly the original individual, or a copy---in the same way Christians who also believe in ghosts are cagey about whether ghosts are the souls of the dead or are instead independent entities. Secret History implies a continuation of consciousness, but Warbreaker does not. There is a partial RAFO for Rhythm of War in that one character will give his theory, but in an authoritative enough way that I suspect it is also Brandon's canonical belief (since it matches either statements he has made, or other comments in the books, or both). I wish he would leave it deliberately and permanently unknowable, though.

quote:

World Hoppers - My Questions -
1 - The first comes with regard to aging. For someone like Vasher, he's (I guess) a Cognitive Shadow, so he's operating under different rules. But when you have Galladon hanging out with Demoux and others all from different time periods - How are they not aging?

Future RAFO. Some of the characters from different eras may not have experienced the same rate of passage of time as everyone else. Brandon has implied as much, but I don't think he's stated if it was using Allomancy, the power of concentrated investiture to affect time* (maybe you can orbit a perpendicularity in space like its a black hole), or just using special relativity.

*you have seen this in the stormlight archives

Slanderer fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Mar 29, 2024

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Just wear aluminum body paint, never leak investiture. Easy!

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.

Slanderer posted:

Just wanted to expand on this--Brandon was previously cagey about whether Cognitive Shadows are truly the original individual, or a copy---in the same way Christians who also believe in ghosts are cagey about whether ghosts are the souls of the dead or are instead independent entities. Secret History implies a continuation of consciousness, but Warbreaker does not. There is a partial RAFO for Rhythm of War in that one character will give his theory, but in an authoritative enough way that I suspect it is also Brandon's canonical belief (since it matches either statements he has made, or other comments in the books, or both). I wish he would leave it deliberately and permanently unknowable, though.

The thing to me is though, even though consciousness appeared to be continuous it might not have been, the real Kelsiers soul might just have upped and left and the energy from the pool just moved in to stabilize it before it dissipated and none of us might know for certain. Only thing that could settle this would be a WoB or if it got stated in the books by a shard or something. But I think that's on purpose too.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE

Half of Dracula posted:

The ancient words must be spoken again. My oath... "I will not die."

This might be legit though, especially with Honor's influence it seems like swearing the right kind of oath could make you ageless. Heralds got there somehow

(Rhythm of War spoilers:) The answer would seem to be that a bondsmith (Ishar) did it.

Sylphrena posted:

A Bondsmith Connected the Heralds to Braize, made them immortal, and locked our enemies away. A Bondsmith bound other Surges and brought humans to Roshar, fleeing their dying world.

So it seems that on Roshar, a bondsmith can just straight up make people immortal. Granted, Ishar might have had help from Honor. But unchained bondsmiths are more powerful than they were during Honor's time, not to mention that Dalinar is bonded to the being holding a significant part of Honor, so who knows what's possible here. But at least for the Heralds, the answer to how they became immortal is straightforward enough.

Leng
May 13, 2006

One song / Glory
One song before I go / Glory
One song to leave behind


No other road
No other way
No day but today

Mordiceius posted:

Aging - Roshar is the big question mark to me. There seems to be no way to "hold" Stormlight over an extended time. Stormlight seems extremely volatile. If it is within a person, it leaves through their mouth and radiates out of their skin. If it is held within a gemstone/fabrial, it is still and imperfect container and leaks over time until it is all gone. I feel like a Rosharan could hold 2000 breath of Stormlight, but they would lose it quickly.

You will find out one method by the end of Oathbringer.

A Sneaker Broker
Feb 14, 2020

Daily Dose of Internet Brain Rot

Leng posted:

You will find out one method by the end of Oathbringer.

I'm going to need a quick reminder of this.

Final Empire - Chapter 24

So that's it? Ham finds out there's an easy way to make a quick big buck by killing the army he just spent time with, and he sells out. That fast? Jesus Christ.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

A Sneaker Broker posted:

I'm going to need a quick reminder of this.
Perfect gems.

A Sneaker Broker
Feb 14, 2020

Daily Dose of Internet Brain Rot

CapnAndy posted:

Perfect gems.

How did I forget that one was stolen by the Fused, portraying a Human? Dang. I take a de-tour to Mistborn Alley and suddenly my Stormlight Archive memory starts to fade :(

A Sneaker Broker
Feb 14, 2020

Daily Dose of Internet Brain Rot

A Sneaker Broker posted:

Final Empire - Chapter 24

So that's it? Ham finds out there's an easy way to make a quick big buck by killing the army he just spent time with, and he sells out. That fast? Jesus Christ.

Reached the End of Part 3 of Final Empire



The pacing is getting very good. I worry for Kelsier. He has Paul Atreides/Anakin Skywalker/Eren Yeager vibes. He’s trying so hard to be the hero now, but his inner thoughts and his mindset make me think once he has all the power in the world, he goes rogue. The fact that his first thoughts after losing 5000 men are, “Yeah, the army messed up. But I’m not even close to giving up..” Oh boy.

Vin and Elend sitting in a tree..

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Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE

A Sneaker Broker posted:

Reached the End of Part 3 of Final Empire



The pacing is getting very good. I worry for Kelsier. He has Paul Atreides/Anakin Skywalker/Eren Yeager vibes. He’s trying so hard to be the hero now, but his inner thoughts and his mindset make me think once he has all the power in the world, he goes rogue. The fact that his first thoughts after losing 5000 men are, “Yeah, the army messed up. But I’m not even close to giving up..” Oh boy.

Vin and Elend sitting in a tree..



Oh boy, I don't think you're prepared for Part 4. Enjoy the ride!

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