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I'm fascinated by the Russian remake of Commando. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLd_dz1ID4Y
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Jun 8, 2014 14:19
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acephalousuniverse posted:edit: There's a cool blog about video game localization that might be interesting to people here that I can't remember the name of right now that I'm sure someone will. I just spent I think the last two hours reading nearly everything on that site; thanks. It's really interesting, and the issues that guy talks about easily extend to non-videogames as well.
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Jun 8, 2014 18:41
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K. Waste posted:Lol, I've tried it four times all the way through and no dice. At the most it keeps me morbidly curious enough to keep coming back, and those first twenty minutes are some of the best I've seen in Italian exploitation. But that was Dawn of the Dead's problem, too, for me. When you sit down and watch both films, you realize that the preamble is actually more interesting than what comes after. There's also Cozzilla, an Italian rerelease of the 1954 Gojira that splices footage from Gojira and King of the Monsters with clips from other monster movies and newsreel footage. Every frame also has weird multi-colored gels on top of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FOtLWATiJc
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Jun 8, 2014 23:26
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There are a few versions of Dangerous Liaisons transposed to different cultural settings. Untold Scandal set in ancient Korea is really good, the Chinese Dangerous Liaisons set in 30's Shanghai (a place and time synonymous with excess) is poo poo and contains the most obvious shot continuity error I've ever seen, which was my favourite part, and Cruel Intentions is whatever. It's interesting to see a bunch of different analogues for the Ancien regime, and I am gay.
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Jun 9, 2014 03:13
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So, I've officially seen the U.S. theatrical cut, Romero's extended cut, and the European international version, and, honestly, I have to say that I think I prefer the foreign cut better. It's interesting that Argento's minor changes, while subtracting from Romero's intent, especially in the opening scenes, overall have the effect of calling attention to things that I hadn't noticed in either of the 'preferred' versions of the film. Obviously, there's the greater presence of Goblin's score, which actually fits perfectly with the nightmare comic book tone of the film's production design, and brings a lot of life to a story that really is much more episodic than your standard horror film. But Argento's tighter editing also allows those episodes to feel more like the natural progression of these characters as they attempt to run away both from anarchy (represented by the zombies) and fascism (represented by the martial law implemented by the U.S. government). It didn't occur to me until watching this version of the film that Romero's film doesn't actually work that well as a satire of consumerism. On the other hand, it brilliantly captures the hypnotizing appeal of violence and destruction. The national guardsmen escape martial law, the news people escape mediated lies, but they ultimately can't help but take a little pleasure in having the freedom to kill indiscriminately, the zombies giving them the opportunity to act out literally that which already takes place via martial oppression and propaganda.
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Jun 14, 2014 21:41
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K. Waste posted:It didn't occur to me until watching this version of the film that Romero's film doesn't actually work that well as a satire of consumerism. And why not?
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Jun 14, 2014 21:42
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penismightier posted:And why not? I guess because so much of its imagery -- while there's the connection between the zombies consuming and consumerism -- seems to be far more preoccupied with the cycle of violence which is already a more prominent feature of Night of the Living Dead. It's not necessarily any of our extant consumerist structures that 'feed' the zombies. Indeed, the zombies, like the living, go to the mall, even if they have nothing to consume. One can argue that 'window shopping' and social interaction within a mall is a reflection of consumerism in and of itself, of course. But perhaps the reason those previous cuts of the film didn't resonate with me was because I was too preoccupied with that consumerist imagery. It's certainly an important part of Romero's film, but I'm actually now starting to read it as just one part of a broader criticism that he's making of human nature. Consumerism as represented not only by the zombies frequenting the mall, but our protagonists finding sanctuary within consumerism, seems to actually be a reflection of the same violence and conflict portrayed on the talk show, the raid, the hunting down of the zombies. They all serve as kinds of stages for the elimination of death. The mall is another stage, but it's only a stage. Consumerism doesn't make the zombies want to consume, nor does it make Roger have a nervous breakdown. Consumerism responds to the desire for 'eternal life.' The appearance of the living dead catalyzes the collapse of Order (which, because the movie starts in media res, is implicitly non-existant). On one side, the government insists upon the total elimination of the dead. But people still cling to the wish of life's permanence, the ability of humans to transcend death, which makes the body sacred. But both sides -- the materialist and privileged, and the spiritualist underprivileged -- doom themselves to an intractable, violent opposition which only replicates death on an even grander scale. This doesn't mean that neither side has useful information to offer. But what the government bureaucrats don't understand is that eliminating the corpses won't eliminate death. And what the Old Priest doesn't understand is that 'stopping the killing' will also not lead to salvation, eternal life. Romero contrives a scenario in which the only moral action is to destroy oneself, to embrace the ultimatum of death. By turning to gun against one's own brain -- the vessel of our desires, our delusions -- like the young national guardsmen who kills himself minutes into the raid, one rejects the living death that is obscured by political propaganda, irresponsible journalism, racism, and consumerism. Regardless of Romero's intent, I don't think consumerism is the be-all/end-all of his film's subtext. Rather, I think the mall functions as kind of the 'last stage;' late capitalism is the ultimate realization of our naive clinging to living death.
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Jun 14, 2014 22:21
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Though merely an element, wouldn't that strengthen that particular motif? I mean "consumers as mindless zombies" is a surface level observation, but there's a lot more going on textually, as you say.
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Jun 17, 2014 16:11
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Though merely an element, wouldn't that strengthen that particular motif? I mean "consumers as mindless zombies" is a surface level observation, but there's a lot more going on textually, as you say. This is why I connected it back to my experience of the theatrical, Romero, and Argento cuts. The way I tried to frame my initial observation was that I think the unique structures of all three versions of the film have their own pro's and con's, and that one of the pro's of Argento's faster-edited, more musical, streamlined version of the story is that, at least to me, it seemed like the connection between 'human nature' and 'consumerism' was more fluid and natural. I'm contrasting this with Romero's more protracted, plodding pacing and editing style. For instance, both the theatrical and Romero cut of the film have the closing credits play over images of the mall itself accompanied by 'elevator music.' Argento axed this and put in some very generic credits. While the latter is kind of a boring creative decision, it seems to summarize the differences between the cuts. I find that Romero's vision is too on-the-nose, that his intrigue with consumerism isn't necessarily as exciting or engaging to me as Argento's more generic fascination with the living dead. But I don't want to derail about my own arbitrary reading of the film(s). So I'll open up a question: Can anyone else think of a foreign cut of a film that they felt was superior to the original? Whether in terms of how the script is translated, what images foreign distributors may choose to excise?
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Jun 17, 2014 17:51
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I like the English dub of Princess Mononoke a little better than the subtitled version, if that counts. The dub script was written by Neil Gaiman and it's fantastic.
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Jun 17, 2014 19:48
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I don't think it's an arbitrary reading at all, because the European/Argento cut is fundamentally and noticeably different to anyone who watches it. The main reason that I dislike it is that it cuts around the jokes but I don't think they're just frivolous little asides. The eclectic carnivalesque of Romero's cut with less Goblin and more library music is much sillier but also much more apocalyptic, there's a real exuberance a lot of similar films don't have (just as many post apoc Road Warrior ripoffs would never allow their hero to do something so uncool as eating dog food). The anarchic license to take lives is the primary source of thrills for a lot of characters in Dawn of the Dead, and it's filtered by acculturation. In some cases, it's a duty, in others, a wild, undisciplined urge - we have tribes of cops, bikers, city folk, good ol' boys, slum dwellers, etc. seeking different ends in an orgy of slaughter. That's something that gets lost when talking about this movie, it comes from a social milieu that is in upheaval, specifically post-industry Pennsylvania, blighted by urban shambles and ever encroaching suburbanization: remember that a mall in this film is so new that the characters aren't even familiar enough with the concept to be colloquial about it. There's a specificity about the setting that none of his other Dead films (besides his last two, oddly) don't have. I'm gonna homage you and quote myself: quote:Dawn is an independent film explicitly set in Pennsylvania, a weird state that is an awful lot like Appalachia with big East Coast cities in it, a big part of the chain of cities from Gary, Indiana all the way over to Jersey City, NJ that make up the charmingly squalid "Rust Belt". On top of that, it's the late seventies, a decade past the major race riots, right in the middle of a horrendous decline in American industry - whole cities are now teeming slums. Woolie, a tuned-up SWAT grunt, possibly ex-Vietnam, possibly ex-steel worker or something, is working urban poor, a nice reminder that white flight didn't include all whites, because blue collar workers got hosed over just the same.
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Jun 17, 2014 21:46
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The eclectic carnivalesque of Romero's cut with less Goblin and more library music is much sillier but also much more apocalyptic, there's a real exuberance a lot of similar films don't have (just as many post apoc Road Warrior ripoffs would never allow their hero to do something so uncool as eating dog food). The anarchic license to take lives is the primary source of thrills for a lot of characters in Dawn of the Dead, and it's filtered by acculturation. In some cases, it's a duty, in others, a wild, undisciplined urge - we have tribes of cops, bikers, city folk, good ol' boys, slum dwellers, etc. seeking different ends in an orgy of slaughter. That's actually a very interesting reading because, if anything, I think Argento's brisker pacing helps to make this apocalypse more presciently chaotic. And if I could pick an adjective for Goblin's compositions throughout much of the film, it might have to be "carnivalesque," especially during the good ol' boys section. But thanks for tying the film back to PA's socioeconomic turmoil, and the broader national crisis of the time. There's a very palpable element to Dawn, just like with Night, that despite the clear comic book exaggerations, that what one is witnessing is not at all different from 'reality.' I think that that apocalyptic gnosis isn't lost and is, in fact, helped by Argento's additions and excisions. I think they make for a more subtle film in which "the anarchic license to take lives" isn't lost on the spectator because Romero already does such a good job of establishing these things through the characters' actions.
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Jun 17, 2014 22:08
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Subtlety be damned, IMO.
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Jun 17, 2014 22:43
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I've always found Italian exploitation cinema to be a lot of fun. Essentially their whole exploitation culture is based around generating whole series of movies that are remakes and remixes of a few originals. The Zombi films are a clear example of course. The popularity of westerns led to the spaghetti westerns, The French Connection and Dirty Harry led to a whole decade of Eurocrime. Popular sci-fi led to classics like Alien 2 and Starcrash. Ozploitation classic Patrick led to Patrick Lives Again. But they weren't beyond ripping off their own work. For some reason cannibal movies became very popular there and what do you do then? You combine them with zombie movies and end up with Zombi Holocaust. What surprised me the most about all of this is that even a piece of crap like this played for months in cinemas here in The Netherlands. Cheap cinemas, granted, but still.
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Jun 18, 2014 14:55
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First, a crosspost from the Star Wars thread: a two part (aborted) commentary on Star war the third gather: Backstroke of the west. Now, some actual effort posting: In Taiwan, there wasn't a unified way of translating foreign titles, so a lot of them got a little too creative for their own good. The result of this is that many titles become incomprehensible messes. Off the top of my head, here's a short list where I recursively translate the Chinese titles back into English the best I can): Chrono Trigger -> Wheel of Time Final Fantasy -> Space Warriors Gone With the Wind -> Wartime Lovers Hellsing -> Stranger on a Hellish Night Metal Gear -> Legendary Commando Spy Rurouni Kenshin -> Itinerant Godly Sword Slayers -> Screwed-Up Magician
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Aug 13, 2014 04:20
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I find the 80s/90s anime dubs sort of endearing, a bit, even with many of the plot changes they make. When Animeigo was still one of the only anime companies in the US, I remember a lot of their VHS releases used to contain little pamphlets on parts of the stories that might not have relevance to US audiences to more or less explain the joke to us, superstitions, cultural mores, pop culture references, etc. Alhazred posted:In a similar vein Spinal Tap in Norway was titled "Help! We're in Music Miz", Airplane was called "Help! We're Flying" Christmas Vacation got the title "Help! We're on Christmas Vacation" and so on. Almost every comedy released in the eighties had Help in the title. In the commentary track for Danger: Diabolik, one of the guys mentions in the 60s spy movies ended up having some alternate titles for different markets and to try to use words used in the titles of other spy movies to grab some popularity. I think he mentions 'Operation' was fairly common word that got used in such alternate titles. For example, "OK Connery" ended up being what we know from MST3K as "Operation Double 007" or "Operation Kid Brother" in the US. I think subject comes up with a plan in the movie being announced as "Operation Gold Van" and he suggests that the filmmakers intentionally chose to highlight it in dialogue as they did within the film in case they released it in some markets as "Operation Gold Van". SALT CURES HAM posted:I like the English dub of Princess Mononoke a little better than the subtitled version, if that counts. The dub script was written by Neil Gaiman and it's fantastic. A few years after this came out in the US, a theater did a midnight showing of it as part and it got literal booing from the audience for being the dubbed version.
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Aug 13, 2014 05:24
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JediTalentAgent posted:
"Real fans call it Princess Mononoke Hime." -A real thing said in real life to me.
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Aug 13, 2014 08:24
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The french dub of Porco Rosso is pretty great, it's got Jean Reno as the main chracter.
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Aug 13, 2014 08:45
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dotchan posted:First, a crosspost from the Star Wars thread: a [url=http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php? My friend had ordered the entire Giant Robo series on horribly bootlegged VHS from some kind of zine back in the day and she got back a series of tapes titled GAINT ROBOT that had mind bending subtitles. It's still my favorite take on the series.
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Aug 13, 2014 08:52
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JediTalentAgent posted:A few years after this came out in the US, a theater did a midnight showing of it as part and it got literal booing from the audience for being the dubbed version. I'm not surprised, any modification from the original work would've been multiplying by zero regardless of who did it. I offered to take a friend (a big Miyazaki fan) to see The Wind Rises when it played near me and was told that unless it was subbed not to bother.
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Aug 14, 2014 00:17
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I know people get really hung up on the sub/dub debate, and there are times I've watched a Japanese dubbed episode of the Simpsons that felt like they worked really well with the new voices despite the fact I was only going off of inflection and subtitles to get the story of the episode. I figure if I'm secure enough to have western animation redubbed for a foreign audience, I can be secure enough to tolerate have foreign animation redubbed for a US audience. Heck, I have to admit, I really liked what I heard/saw of the Japanese dub of The Dark Knight. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBlG5AXcb-k There's a whole different tone in the delivery, it feels, from the Ledger version of the character. The Japanese Joker sounds more like he's a bit more 'with it' in some ways than Ledger's Joker, but a bit more 'crazy' in others. It just has a feel like the Japanese Joker comes off as more a really disturbed gangster. The voice actor seems to be playing down the mania. Like I said, only going from subtitles and inflection to judge quality, it feels very different, but still good.
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Aug 14, 2014 03:41
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Hawa (2003), a Bollywood remake of The Entity (1982).  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6uFC74-V0Q
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Aug 14, 2014 06:54
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Island Nation posted:I'm not surprised, any modification from the original work would've been multiplying by zero regardless of who did it. So "big Miyazaki fans" are what the obnoxious weeaboos from the early 2000s turned into. Hooray.
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Aug 26, 2014 02:49
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The Brotherhood of the Wolf is a french film that I tried watching with the subtitles but realized they weren't making sense in context so I watched it with the dub which was hilariously bad as the subs but with both on together you found a middle ground where poo poo started to make sense. Also one time for funsies my folks were watching a Schwarzenegger film, not sure which one, wanting to watch it with a Spanish sub and the voice actor choice for Arnold made him sound like a Mexican shop keeper and we couldn't watch it without laughing our arses off.
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Aug 26, 2014 17:45
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I mean if I went to see a Japanese movie and it turned out to be dubbed I'd be upset too. If it's an old B-movie or whatever I can deal, but I can't see myself paying to see a new release foreign movie in dubbed rather than subtitled format, no matter how many famous people they get to do the voices. Uncle Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Aug 26, 2014 |
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Aug 26, 2014 21:33
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The only Ghibli movie I can think of where they haven't screened both versions is loving Ponyo, though, and even then I probably just didn't notice. Also, I interpreted that as the poster offering to pay for the obnoxious weeb's ticket, which is probably a lot of why that sounds silly to me.
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Aug 26, 2014 23:57
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I love the names of the Fast & Furious movies in Japan. They sound like video games. Wild Speed Wild Speed X2 Wild Speed X3: Tokyo Drift Wild Speed Max Wild Speed Mega Max Wild Speed Euro Mission Probably does not beat "Captain Supermarket" for Army of Darkness or "Malkovich's Hole" for Being John Malkovich. In Malaysia, Roland Emmerich's The Day After Tomorrow had the title translated to be "Lusa" (not officially, just in the subtitle). In Malay, this literally means "the day after tomorrow" as opposed to the figurative way the English title used it. It got a pretty big laugh among Malaysians when it appeared on screen.
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Aug 27, 2014 04:03
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:I mean if I went to see a Japanese movie and it turned out to be dubbed I'd be upset too. For what it's worth, Miyazaki prefers that non-Japanese people view the dubbed versions of his films so they can pay full attention to the detailed animation and artwork. The teams at Disney that handled his films from Princess Mononoke onwards have handled the films exceptionally well, and some people even think that the English versions of Howl's Moving Castle and The Wind Rises improve some aspects of the original Japanese dubs. Studio Ghibli has extensive control over the dubs, with final approval of the scripts. They once sent a samurai sword with "No cuts" engraved on it to Harvey Weinstein when he threatened to pull a Snowpiercer on Princess Mononoke. Of all the Disney dubs of Miyazaki's films, the only ones I don't watch over the Japanese versions are Nausicaa, because Alison Lohman totally blows it as the title character, and the duo of Kiki and Laputa, which were produced before Disney started taking it seriously and feature script and music changes (though Kiki's dub is, despite those changes, pretty good and has Phil Hartman as a talking cat). Edit: I also switch language tracks at the end of Ponyo because the English song is terrible. MajorB fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Aug 29, 2014 |
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Aug 27, 2014 22:46
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The first time I saw Kiki, it was with with the Japanese audio, but with the subtitles from the English dub. There's such a huge disconnect with all the added dialogue. Characters are constantly adding little comments whenever you can't see their mouths. I remember reading that the will smith movie "In Pursuit of Happyness" had a joke that was really well don't in Japanese but I can't remember at all what it was.
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Aug 28, 2014 16:33
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Yugioh The Abridged series is terrible and run into the ground but it's first few episodes made some salient points about the American localization. The YouTube series itself was so popular that there was a Japanese blog that posted subtitled videos of the "episodes." In one episode, the video mocks the American versions repeated use of the phrase "you don't stand a ghost of a chance!" Any "scary" antagonist (like Halloween traditionally scary) said this line in the dub. The Japanese subtitles rendered this as "your chance of winning is zero." In Japanese "zero" is a homophone for "ghost". A particularly clever analogue to a bad pun! Edit: by the way, dotchan, I loved your backstroke of the west posts. Do you have a blog where you do more of that? Xibanya fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Aug 28, 2014 |
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Aug 28, 2014 22:52
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