- Fintilgin
- Sep 29, 2004
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Fintilgin sweeps!
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What's Ultima Underworld, you ask?
Only the first true 3D RPG ever. Fully texture mapped, the ability to look up and down, angled wall, the works. Not only that, but it beat Wolfenstein 3D to market.
But wait, there's more!
More fun Ultima Underworld facts:
* Created by Looking Glass Studios, who went on to create games like System Shock and Thief
* It's a survival rpg/sim, where you're cast into a subterranian prison and have to eat, drink, and sleep and your equipment visually degrades on your paper doll.
* It has a massive non-linear 8 level dungeon.
* Jumping, swimming, and flying in 3D (in 1992!)
* Smooth lighting system including darkness and stealth
* Rune tile based magic
* (Limited) crafting and item combination
Basically it was an amazing, piviotal game that helped define modern RPGs, and there has never been anything quite like it since. Here's what wikipedia says on the subject:
wikipedia posted:
Ultima Underworld has been cited as the first RPG to feature first-person action in a 3D environment. Gamasutra posited that "all 3D RPG titles from Morrowind to World of Warcraft share Ultima Underworld as a common ancestor, both graphically and spiritually ... [and] for better or for worse, Underworld moved the text-based RPG out of the realm of imagination and into the third dimension". Its soundtrack, composed by George "The Fat Man" Sanger and Dave Govett, was the first in a major first-person game to use a dynamic music system; the player's actions alter the game's music.
The game's influence has been found in BioShock (2007), and that game's designer, Ken Levine, has stated that "all the things that I wanted to do and all the games that I ended up working on came out of the inspiration I took from [Ultima Underworld]." Gears of War designer Cliff Bleszinski also cited it as an early influence, stating that it had "far more impact on me than Doom". Other games influenced by Ultima Underworld include The Elder Scrolls: Arena, Deus Ex, Deus Ex: Invisible War, Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines, and Half-Life 2. Toby Gard stated that, when designing Tomb Raider, he "was a big fan of ... Ultima Underworld and I wanted to mix that type of game with the sort of polygon characters that were just being showcased in Virtua Fighter."
It was followed by Underworld II, which let you hop between dimensions.
In 2002, Arkane stuidos (who later made Dishonored) made a spirtitual successor, Arx Fatalis
So why am I so excited? Well, I grew up on Underworld I & II, and they remain a couple of my all time favorite RPGs ever. Today I learned that Paul Neurath, the creative director of ex-Looking Glass Studios and designer of Ultima Underworld has opened a new studio and is devloping a new Underworld game (minus the 'Utlima' bit of the franchise). I literally gave up on the the possibility of ever seeing a new Underworld game ages ago, and I'm still agog that this apparently actually happening.
UNDERWORLD ASCENSION
 I could not be more excited! Please start your (presumed) kickstarter. I will mortage my house. I will mortage YOUR house.
quote:
Games Pioneer Paul Neurath Forms OtherSide Entertainment and Announces its First Game, Underworld Ascension™
July 1st, 2014 – Boston, USA – OtherSide Entertainment, a new independent games studio, today announced its formation. Fronted by game pioneer Paul Neurath, OtherSide Entertainment revealed that its first title, Underworld Ascension™, will mark the return of the groundbreaking and long fallow Underworld franchise.
Paul Neurath, Founder and CEO of OtherSide Entertainment, is renowned for his creative direction spanning three decades, notably leading the development of such classic franchises as Thief™, System Shock™ and the acclaimed Ultima™Underworld.
Underworld Ascension marks both the series and Paul Neurath’s return to his RPG roots, with OtherSide Entertainment aiming to innovate and revitalize the fantasy genre in the same way that its predecessor did in 1992. “With Underworld Ascension,” said Neurath, “we are excited to be bringing back the Underworld franchise, making it more vital than ever before.”
The original Underworlds transformed the traditional dungeon crawl into a truly immersive experience. Players felt as if they were actually walking through the great underworld halls; and encountering a living community of underworld dwellers.
Ultima Underworld inspired a generation, and its influence is still seen today in titles as diverse as Deus Ex™, The Elder Scrolls™, and BioShock™.
OtherSide Entertainment will reveal more details on Underworld Ascension in the months to come. To keep updated, visit our website at https://www.othersideentertainment.com.
Games Industry Testimonials for Underworld:
Richard Garriott, Creative Director, Portalarium: “For those of us lifelong gamers that go back to the early days the Underworld franchise, created by Paul Neurath, represents a watershed event on what an immersive 3D true role-playing game can be like. In these days, where we are seeing many of these greats return, I personally am as excited about Underworld as any game I can imagine.“
Ken Levine, Creative Director, Irrational Games: "Underworld had a transformative effect on my understanding of what games were. It was the first time I ever felt "inside" of an imaginary world. It was the game that primed all of my creative ambitions."
Chris Roberts, Chairman, Roberts Space Industries: “Ultima Underworld was truly revolutionary for its time – it was the first fully 3D textured first person game. As such it influenced pretty much all first person 3D games that came afterwards and could be truly called the granddaddy of first person Role Paying Games.“
Warren Spector, Director, Denius-Sams Gaming Academy: “As Producer on the original Ultima Underworld games, I'll never forget the first time I saw a working prototype of the game – I felt as if the world had just changed. As the first fully-textured, real-time, first-person game, Underworld paved the way for every other first-person game that followed. If that doesn't qualify as ‘changing the world’, I don't know what does!”
HOLY gently caress. ULTIMA UNDERWORLD III. HOLY gently caress.
Fintilgin fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Jul 4, 2014
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Jul 1, 2014 17:41
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Apr 19, 2024 21:39
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- Laputanmachine
- Oct 31, 2010
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by Smythe
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Holy poo poo gently caress drat. I want this so bad and I pray and hope and wish it doesn't turn out to be poo poo. At least it has a lot of the old crew working on it and that's usually a good sign.
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Jul 1, 2014 17:57
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- Pomp
- Apr 3, 2012
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by Fluffdaddy
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Probably gonna suck.
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Jul 1, 2014 18:00
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- theblackw0lf
- Apr 15, 2003
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"...creating a vision of the sort of society you want to have in miniature"
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Sounds like Tim Stellmach, the Lead Designer of UU2, is back.
The person I'd LOVE to see on this is Doug Church though. Project leader on UU2 and also the main brains behind the original System Shock (and heavily involved in Thief as well)
Last time I heard he's at Valve though.
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Jul 1, 2014 18:06
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- I said come in!
- Jun 22, 2004
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How come EA doesn't just reboot Ultima?
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Jul 1, 2014 18:18
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- Dog Fat Man Chaser
- Jan 13, 2009
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maybe being miserable
is not unpredictable
maybe that's
the problem
with me
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How come EA doesn't just reboot Ultima?
They kinda did? There was an iOS game, Ultima Forever.
It was freemium pay-a-shitton-or-be-gimped garbage.
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Jul 1, 2014 18:23
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- Fintilgin
- Sep 29, 2004
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Fintilgin sweeps!
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Honestly, the 'Ultima' part of Ultima Underworld was kinda tacked on, to my understanding. I think they changed the game mid production to move it to the Ultima Universe. Underworld II was much more explicitly an Ultima game.
So, losing 'Ultima' is a shame, but doesn't bother me much.
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Jul 1, 2014 18:25
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Apr 19, 2024 21:39
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- Fintilgin
- Sep 29, 2004
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Fintilgin sweeps!
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Otherside has explicitly asked people to post on their forums about what they enjoyed about the first games while they gather ideas. So go do it!
I'll also bore you all with the effort post I made there, in order to try to pep this thread up with some discussion of a couple of the greatest RPG games ever:
A nerd who likes Ultima Underworld way too much posted:
This goes back and forth between being a 'things I liked' post and a 'things I'd like' post.
Underworld I & II were amazing, pivotal games when I was a teen, and an UWIII has long been one of those daydreams I completely gave up on ever happening, so this is really amazing news! I've spent a lot of time daydreaming about UWIII over the years and now you have to read my manifesto.  I apologize for the length, but I've always been passionate about Underworld and the other Looking Glass games.
Survival
I enjoyed the survival elements, because they added an air of realism/simulation and helped create the feeling of being alone in dangerous frightful place.
Eating, Drinking, and Sleeping
This was good and should be enhanced. For example, it was far too easy to bypass these elements with the create food spell. I'd make the survival bit cruel early on. Like you're happy to see a rat because you can kill it and eat it. What would currency look like in a sealed off dungeon like the Stygian Abyss? My first thought is that it would be food. Worth FAR more then gold! Depending on how harsh the environment is, you'd almost be required to have a cannibalism subplot or player ability. Many monsters should be able to be cut up for food, crafting materials.
Visual item degradation on your paper doll
This was just so cool, and I don't think it's something I've seen a game do since. Having a 'durability' stat that runs down and then your item turns red and 'broken' is DULL. Being able to SEE your armor get ripped to tatters and your equipment smashed up really added to a sense of desperation and survival. In my opinion this is more then just visual 'fluff', it's an important aspect of immersion, verisimilitude, and sense of place.
Crafting
This was pretty limited in the originals, but played with a little more in Arx Fatalis. It'd be nice to see this expanded a bit. You probably don't want to go too crazy, but maybe something a bit like Fallout: New Vegas would work. Food and alchemy are obvious. Break down items to form components (ruined leather armor can be broken down into 'leather scraps'), which can be used to repair leather items. Visual thought: a suit of quality leather armor brought down from the surface should look very different then a crude one made in the Abyss, or that same surface armor after it has been patched and repaired.
Non-linearity and Level design
Essential! It was amazing to be able to roam freely through multiple levels as long as you were able to survive the locals. The dungeon should be a PLACE, like Warren Spector's 'One City Block' idea, a micro open world rendered in great detail rather then a sequence of linear stages separated by plot 'gates'.
I'll bring up the Thief games and say some of my favorite levels (in all video games) were stuff like 'Shipping & Receiving' and 'The Bank' because they were huge, non-linear, and open to free exploration.
Similarly, it would be nice if the levels were designed as 'real places', not just a bunch of random rooms and corridors. Even if a section of the dungeon is a half flooded monster infested nightmare zone NOW, we should be able (as we explore) to recognize we're in the storerooms, which are laid out near the forges and work areas, and if we follow the main passage north we can find the living area for the workers in that zone, etc. Like an abandoned fortress in Dwarf Fortress the layout should make sense for the dungeons original purpose, regardless of how they're used now. In most games, like Skyrim or whatever, a dungeon is just a corridor full of treasures and monsters, but when the whole game is a single dungeon, I think Underworld can aspire to more!
Ideally, no loading screens. :p
I'd like -
a.) More robust stealth/non-lethal. It would be great to finish the game without killing anyone/thing.
b.) XP from exploration/quests not from killing monsters. Helps reinforce stealth/non-lethal as a more viable path. Maaaybe a system like the Elder Scrolls, where skills are improved by use?
c.) Richer conversations and story interactions. I'll just tell you to crib liberally from Obsidian games and be done.
d.) Multiple quest solutions and story outcomes that don't sink into a simplistic good/evil dichotomy. Again, crib from Obsidian.
e.) Maybe avoid plots involving GLOBAL DOOM or DEMON INVASIONS? Escaping from a place like the Stygian Abyss is enough to carry a game on its own if given enough love. I think you could probably make a stronger game if you don't require us to ~SAVE THE WORLD~ (again).
f.) Darkness. I don't want to see the entire dungeon painted with ambient light and conveniently placed glowing fungus!  Outside of civilized areas the players torch/lantern should be the ONLY source of light. Think the Doom 3 flashlight. A real sense of oppressive darkness and shifting shadows hiding god knows what. Torches and lamp oil should be a precious commodity. Playing with darkness as a MAJOR component of gameplay would be awesome. It might make the game harder to produce for consoles/living room TVs, but gently caress consoles.
g.) Player physicality and first person only. Obviously the game must be first person only all the time. No yanking us out of body for cut scenes, cinematic kills, or other BS. But the body should be more physically present like Mirror's Edge. We should be able to see our feet and shadow, mantle, etc. Heavy breathing when running. No instant stopping & turning like Counterstrike or Team Fortress. We aren't a gun on a gliding dolly, we can't stop on a dime or circle strafe or other silliness.
h.) Low Magic. Personally I'd cut the ability for the player to be a mage or cast spells. Some people will hate this and the rune system was cool, but there are just too many ways for the player to 'break' the 'survival' portions of the game. Even if you get rid of infinite magic light and infinite magic water walking and flying and etc etc etc, it's hard to feel alone, helpless, and scrounging for thing things you need to survive if you can shoot laser beams from your eyes and fire from your hands! Make magic a scary external force and not something the player can personally use.
Other thoughts -
Obviously you might have a backstory totally different from UW1, and it's probably too expensive to pull off, but I thought long ago that if there were really a prison like the Stygian Abyss, the authorities might have more then one in order to gender segregate them. Otherwise the prisoners would start breeding down there and then you'd have a real problem on your hands (see Spiderweb's Avernum games). How sad and hopeless to be thrown down there to grow old and die without hope of another generation. So men get thrown in the prison volcano on the green island, and women get thrown in the prison volcano on the blue island. The cheap way to implement this would just be have everyone be men and this background part of the story. The more entertaining way would be to genderswap the entire prison if you chose to play a woman. The same characters and story but different models and voice actors. This might be a good 'stretch goal' for a Kickstarter!
I had a massive 'Underworld' moment in the caves in Dear Esther. They looked amazing, and I couldn't help but fantasize at the time that I was playing a modern Underworld game. Having large expanses of natural caves and caverns would be really cool in addition to more 'traditional' dungeon areas.
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Jul 4, 2014 02:37
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