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Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

eschaton posted:

there's a very high percentage of unix here, just not linux

goons recognize the vast superiority of BSD and Mach over that c+ quality undergrad project

lol no, everything underpinning OSX is rotten garbage

it works; despite and not because of its poo poo underpinnings.

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Panty Saluter
Jan 17, 2004

Making learning fun!
linux trip report: guess the old hard drive was more broken than i expected since a newer drive meant everything started working great with fedora 20. unfortunately it seems like most of the stuff i want is made with ubuntu in mind. would running ubuntugnome as compared to cinnamon cause any compatibility issues??

Rufus Ping
Dec 27, 2006





I'm a Friend of Rodney Nano

oval office AND PASTE posted:

problems w/ this:

a) virtualization
b) icons on ur desktop smdh
c) don't ever add any extensions to gnome wtf is wrong with you

this isnt a vm - i tested it in a vm before but then i installed it properly

the only extension enabled was the desktop icons, not that it even works properly:
- sometimes starts up with no icons at all and they magically appear after swapping workspace
- 'keep icons aligned to grid' doesnt do anything
- when inserting a removable drive, the new icon for the disk is sometimes added on top of an existing one

i guess i can live without it

oval office AND PASTE posted:

i dunno what those things are but you are on the debian testing branch so who knows but once i spent some real time with it (not just experimenting with VMs) i couldn't stand to go back to windows. the gnome overview is great, the workspaces are integrated so well that you can't help but use them. and even stuff outside of gnome, like how disrespectful installers are and how programs have their own update clients that just run in the background all the time lol

my complaining aside id legit like this to suit my needs so here are some things that are really annoying me. idk if its a problem with the software or my workflow or what.

i keep my mail program (thunderbird) running and would like to know when i have unread emails without loading it up and looking. in windows i can minimise it and it lights up the icon in the taskbar when i have unread mail and i can click it to read them. in gnome there doesnt appear to be any way to get an unread count / new mail icon in the top bar? or wherever

likewise i keep my im program (jitsi) running in the background. is the intended idea that i keep it visible at all times, but on a separate workspace? (if so how am i supposed to modify my startup entry so it loads there automatically?) what happens if i receive an im and i'm doing something else? will i even know about it (apart from the sound it makes). i clicked the x on my contact list and it disappeared but the program kept running (as intended), but with no way to bring it back, even after a reboot. so ive had to purge the package to wipe out whatever setting was causing that. this isnt a problem with gnome per se its just ridic poorly thought out

also bluetooth (bluez) is broken but i dont really use that that often anyway so w/e


okay say ive got a maximised window open and another one behind it i want to get at
is the idea that - in the absense of a 'minimise' concept - i slam the mouse to the top left and then click on the preview of the other window i want? or use alt-tab?

also my synaptics touchpad isnt paying attention to its config file so i dont have circular scrolling any more :( and palm detection is off so i keep catching it while typing

and my speakers crackle and pop when shutting down (they previously did it continuously every few seconds till i disabled power saving mode on the sound card)

also lol at the gnome package *depending* on fucken libre office and transmission-gtk and gnome games and stuff, i dont want any of those

pram
Jun 10, 2001

Rufus Ping posted:

this isnt a vm - i tested it in a vm before but then i installed it properly

the only extension enabled was the desktop icons, not that it even works properly:
- sometimes starts up with no icons at all and they magically appear after swapping workspace
- 'keep icons aligned to grid' doesnt do anything
- when inserting a removable drive, the new icon for the disk is sometimes added on top of an existing one

i guess i can live without it


my complaining aside id legit like this to suit my needs so here are some things that are really annoying me. idk if its a problem with the software or my workflow or what.

i keep my mail program (thunderbird) running and would like to know when i have unread emails without loading it up and looking. in windows i can minimise it and it lights up the icon in the taskbar when i have unread mail and i can click it to read them. in gnome there doesnt appear to be any way to get an unread count / new mail icon in the top bar? or wherever

likewise i keep my im program (jitsi) running in the background. is the intended idea that i keep it visible at all times, but on a separate workspace? (if so how am i supposed to modify my startup entry so it loads there automatically?) what happens if i receive an im and i'm doing something else? will i even know about it (apart from the sound it makes). i clicked the x on my contact list and it disappeared but the program kept running (as intended), but with no way to bring it back, even after a reboot. so ive had to purge the package to wipe out whatever setting was causing that. this isnt a problem with gnome per se its just ridic poorly thought out

also bluetooth (bluez) is broken but i dont really use that that often anyway so w/e


okay say ive got a maximised window open and another one behind it i want to get at
is the idea that - in the absense of a 'minimise' concept - i slam the mouse to the top left and then click on the preview of the other window i want? or use alt-tab?

also my synaptics touchpad isnt paying attention to its config file so i dont have circular scrolling any more :( and palm detection is off so i keep catching it while typing

and my speakers crackle and pop when shutting down (they previously did it continuously every few seconds till i disabled power saving mode on the sound card)

also lol at the gnome package *depending* on fucken libre office and transmission-gtk and gnome games and stuff, i dont want any of those

:eyepop:

ChiralCondensate
Nov 13, 2007

what is that man doing to his colour palette?
Grimey Drawer

rotor posted:

you are thinking of that other dude

oh, sorry pasty oval office

atomicthumbs
Dec 26, 2010


We're in the business of extending man's senses.

Mr Dog posted:

lol no, everything underpinning OSX is rotten garbage

it works; despite and not because of its poo poo underpinnings.

Careful Drums
Oct 30, 2007

by FactsAreUseless
heh i get the chmod joke give me a cookie

stoutfish
Oct 8, 2012

by zen death robot
I'd just like to say that I find disgusting your deceptive plan to dangle a few dollars in front of amateurs to get a game engine that you can proprietize. You claim you're just doing this for your own educational benefit, but if this was the case it doesn't make sense that you insist on the source code being released under a non-reciprocal license. Someone who only wants to learn wouldn't care if the code was licensed under a reciprocal license like the GPL, or even a very restrictive license that wouldn't pass muster with the FSF or OSI: the only practical reason I can think of for insisting on something like BSD or MIT is that you want to use it for a proprietary project.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome
hehehehee dangle

Symbolic Butt
Mar 22, 2009

(_!_)
Buglord

eschaton posted:

your terminal doesn't automatically support inline images? (tw: lisp)

what's the story on these lisp machines anyway? someone please link me some neat article or video about it thank you very much.

virtualboyCOLOR
Dec 22, 2004


755 or 740 if you're married


also crunchbang is pretty good plus good name.

Symbolic Butt
Mar 22, 2009

(_!_)
Buglord

Rufus Ping posted:

i keep my mail program (thunderbird) running and would like to know when i have unread emails without loading it up and looking. in windows i can minimise it and it lights up the icon in the taskbar when i have unread mail and i can click it to read them. in gnome there doesnt appear to be any way to get an unread count / new mail icon in the top bar? or wherever

I'm pretty sure you can use thunderbird with gnome3's win+m thing

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Symbolic Butt posted:

what's the story on these lisp machines anyway? someone please link me some neat article or video about it thank you very much.

the Lisp machine article on wikipedia is actually pretty decent

there are also emulators for the original MIT CADR and the TI Explorer that actually work and can let you see how these systems worked

symbolics is even still technically (sort of) around and will sell you a workstation or an emulator on which to run genera, if you really want, but both options are spendy and the workstations are super slow compared to modern 64-bit hardware running emulation

edit: whoa, xerox interlisp (which was on the xerox lisp machines) is still around in emulation as medley at a horrific price, though you can get the parc language workbench free for noncommercial use for linux and try medley too

(interlisp is the environment that had the "do what i mean" command that tried to figure out your intent when you made a mistake)

eschaton fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Aug 8, 2014

CUNT AND PASTE
Aug 15, 2004

~see my amazon wishlistu~

Rufus Ping posted:

i keep my mail program (thunderbird) running and would like to know when i have unread emails without loading it up and looking. in windows i can minimise it and it lights up the icon in the taskbar when i have unread mail and i can click it to read them. in gnome there doesnt appear to be any way to get an unread count / new mail icon in the top bar? or wherever

indicators are things like volume, battery, wifi signal strength (so you can see their state at a glance). these are at the top right, and opening that menu lets you control them.

notifications are things like "you have new mail", "this song is now playing", or "jimbo sent you an IM. they appear bottom center when they occur, and they collect in a notification area (bump the bottom of the screen with the mouse, or press Super+M, to see them). notifications also show on your lock screen. they work like notifications on a mobile device do -- they disappear once you address or dismiss them.

basically the gnome designers are trying to say "programs aren't notifications, get your torrent client out of the loving notification area"

Rufus Ping posted:

likewise i keep my im program (jitsi) running in the background. is the intended idea that i keep it visible at all times, but on a separate workspace? (if so how am i supposed to modify my startup entry so it loads there automatically?) what happens if i receive an im and i'm doing something else? will i even know about it (apart from the sound it makes). i clicked the x on my contact list and it disappeared but the program kept running (as intended), but with no way to bring it back, even after a reboot. so ive had to purge the package to wipe out whatever setting was causing that. this isnt a problem with gnome per se its just ridic poorly thought out

Settings > Online Accounts. configure your IM services there and auto sign-in should "just work", but it may depend on your client. try epiphany, it got modernized for gtk3 a few versions ago and is good.

if you must use jitsi, reconfigure it not to "minimize to notification area on close". in fact, if you have apps that "live" in your notification area, do that for all of them (or replace them with non-garbage apps -- i ditched dropbox for owncloud just because it has native gnome integration).

but seriously find something that works well with gnome's notification subsystem because just look at these fucken notifications, man. it doesn't matter if you use epiphany or pidgin or something else, your notifications will look the same and get the extended features (IM notifications all get the auto-reply functionality, notifications from audio players show music metadata and player controls, etc). its subtle but makes going back to Windows feel like walking past one of these



Rufus Ping posted:

okay say ive got a maximised window open and another one behind it i want to get at
is the idea that - in the absense of a 'minimise' concept - i slam the mouse to the top left and then click on the preview of the other window i want? or use alt-tab?

really, do whatever works for you. look into what the difference between alt+tab and super+tab is too, i forget and they look the same to me right now, eh

here's how i'm using it: i arrange groups of windows together based on individual tasks i'm working on. i am always doing the window snap (super+left/right) with two windows, one being the window where i do work and the other being the window i use for reference

example: email notification pops up, boss wants me to do something. click the notification to jump to email client, read email, double-click on the mail which opens it in a separate window. go to overview and drag it to a new workspace. open a new tool (terminal, browser, document, whatever it is i'll be doing the work in) and snap it opposite of the reference email. if i need to balance more than two windows, i can manually divide up the screen space as needed from there

"what about your web app browser tabs?" i drag them out of the browser window (which makes new browser windows) and then spread them out to match whatever tasks i'm working on. i also started making better use of bookmarks, stopped collecting dozens of tabs in a single browser window, and disabled 'reopen tabs from last browser session'. epiphany is the gnome browser and it has problems, but it works really well for some things, and for those things i will "Gear Menu > Save as Web Application..." which lets me launch or return to that webthing from the overview

it takes some discipline and real effort to change those old windows behaviors, you don't have to do everything i do, just take what works for you

Rufus Ping posted:

also my synaptics touchpad isnt paying attention to its config file so i dont have circular scrolling any more :( and palm detection is off so i keep catching it while typing

and my speakers crackle and pop when shutting down (they previously did it continuously every few seconds till i disabled power saving mode on the sound card)

cool distro man

Rufus Ping posted:

also lol at the gnome package *depending* on fucken libre office and transmission-gtk and gnome games and stuff, i dont want any of those

yeah that's a distro metapackage thing (i think debian guys decided that all '-desktop' metapackages include libreoffice and a torrent app, etc). in arch, i had to pull in gnome-extra just to get gnome-games. libreoffice and transmission were completely separate.

CUNT AND PASTE fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Aug 8, 2014

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008






debian installs recommends by default I think and if you disable that it saves on a ton of poo poo you don't need.

Phoenixan
Jan 16, 2010

Just Keep Cool-idge

spankmeister posted:

debian installs recommends by default I think and if you disable that it saves on a ton of poo poo you don't need.

are you part of the linux mint team?

pram
Jun 10, 2001

oval office AND PASTE posted:

indicators are things like volume, battery, wifi signal strength (so you can see their state at a glance). these are at the top right, and opening that menu lets you control them.

notifications are things like "you have new mail", "this song is now playing", or "jimbo sent you an IM. they appear bottom center when they occur, and they collect in a notification area (bump the bottom of the screen with the mouse, or press Super+M, to see them). notifications also show on your lock screen. they work like notifications on a mobile device do -- they disappear once you address or dismiss them.

basically the gnome designers are trying to say "programs aren't notifications, get your torrent client out of the loving notification area"


Settings > Online Accounts. configure your IM services there and auto sign-in should "just work", but it may depend on your client. try epiphany, it got modernized for gtk3 a few versions ago and is good.

if you must use jitsi, reconfigure it not to "minimize to notification area on close". in fact, if you have apps that "live" in your notification area, do that for all of them (or replace them with non-garbage apps -- i ditched dropbox for owncloud just because it has native gnome integration).

but seriously find something that works well with gnome's notification subsystem because just look at these fucken notifications, man. it doesn't matter if you use epiphany or pidgin or something else, your notifications will look the same and get the extended features (IM notifications all get the auto-reply functionality, notifications from audio players show music metadata and player controls, etc). its subtle but makes going back to Windows feel like walking past one of these




really, do whatever works for you. look into what the difference between alt+tab and super+tab is too, i forget and they look the same to me right now, eh

here's how i'm using it: i arrange groups of windows together based on individual tasks i'm working on. i am always doing the window snap (super+left/right) with two windows, one being the window where i do work and the other being the window i use for reference

example: email notification pops up, boss wants me to do something. click the notification to jump to email client, read email, double-click on the mail which opens it in a separate window. go to overview and drag it to a new workspace. open a new tool (terminal, browser, document, whatever it is i'll be doing the work in) and snap it opposite of the reference email. if i need to balance more than two windows, i can manually divide up the screen space as needed from there

"what about your web app browser tabs?" i drag them out of the browser window (which makes new browser windows) and then spread them out to match whatever tasks i'm working on. i also started making better use of bookmarks, stopped collecting dozens of tabs in a single browser window, and disabled 'reopen tabs from last browser session'. epiphany is the gnome browser and it has problems, but it works really well for some things, and for those things i will "Gear Menu > Save as Web Application..." which lets me launch or return to that webthing from the overview

it takes some discipline and real effort to change those old windows behaviors, you don't have to do everything i do, just take what works for you


cool distro man


yeah that's a distro metapackage thing (i think debian guys decided that all '-desktop' metapackages include libreoffice and a torrent app, etc). in arch, i had to pull in gnome-extra just to get gnome-games. libreoffice and transmission were completely separate.

:eyepop:

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008






Phoenixan posted:

are you part of the linux mint team?

lol no

Rahu
Feb 14, 2009


let me just check my figures real quick here
Grimey Drawer

Rufus Ping posted:

awwwrgghhh hell yeah!!! this is the goodf poo poo



whoever said linux wasnt just as good as windows!!!

I'm p sure this is a problem with vmware's opengl driver. This happens occasionally in vmware vms, but I haven't seen it in virtualbox or on real hardware.

e:nm you said it wasn't a vm :saddowns:

CUNT AND PASTE
Aug 15, 2004

~see my amazon wishlistu~
yeah i dunno either i've used gnome3 on most GPUs (both the proprietary and open drivers) and most currently on haswell's on-chip graphics and i've never had window trails

i've had gnome-shell crash a bunch, admittedly it does crash more frequently than the windows shell, but it never looks like that. it also always recovery gracefully, where windows shell doesn't (lol manually restarting 'explorer.exe' from task manager lol)

DONT THREAD ON ME
Oct 1, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo
Floss Finder

Mr Dog posted:

lol no, everything underpinning OSX is rotten garbage

it works; despite and not because of its poo poo underpinnings.

osx works because hardware powerupz have drastically outpaced hardware requirements for even a poweruser.

osx was a pile of poo poo when things were the other way around. now it has plenty of room to be bad.

DONT THREAD ON ME
Oct 1, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo
Floss Finder
i enjoy a good mix of GUI and Shell programs and the only way i could ever imagine developing on linux is if i switched to emacs/vim and went shell only.

theadder
Dec 30, 2011


USSMICHELLEBACHMAN posted:

osx works because hardware powerupz have drastically outpaced hardware requirements for even a poweruser.

ill be all the optimisation

pram
Jun 10, 2001

USSMICHELLEBACHMAN posted:

osx works because hardware powerupz have drastically outpaced hardware requirements for even a poweruser.

osx was a pile of poo poo when things were the other way around. now it has plenty of room to be bad.

um no. osx owned on g4 too

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

pram posted:

um no. osx owned on g4 too

nice troll

Slow-Scan Shep
Jul 11, 2001

osx was loving hilariously slow back when it was the original nextcube-based version of nextstep

it even beachballed all the time

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe
all descendents of nextstep are trash

theadder
Dec 30, 2011


1.5/5

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

the speed at which os x runs

theadder
Dec 30, 2011


2/5

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

apple's peak share of computers, back in the early 80s

Phoenixan
Jan 16, 2010

Just Keep Cool-idge

papa_november posted:

osx was loving hilariously slow back when it was the original nextcube-based version of nextstep

it even beachballed all the time
up until intel i just remember the loving beachball

Phoenixan
Jan 16, 2010

Just Keep Cool-idge
someone post that comic of people playing on the beach and then their beachball freezes in the air and starts spinning around

atomicthumbs
Dec 26, 2010


We're in the business of extending man's senses.

Nintendo Kid posted:

apple's peak share of computers, back in the early 80s

5/5

Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

windows' rating

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003

I’d make eye contact with him and fart. I did it all the time for like two years. I didn’t even know his full name, just heard that his coworkers thought he was a nut for complaining about “the guy who would fart on me in the break room”

CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:

and now we got systemd as well

Don't quote systemd

Mr. Glass
May 1, 2009

Phoenixan
Jan 16, 2010

Just Keep Cool-idge
yessssss

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Wayne Knight
May 11, 2006


<3 pbf

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