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Medium Lasers are dumb even with single heat sinks. The only situation where they're remotely okay is when the player doesn't get to min max and just stuff his mech full of them. And even in fixed loadout games, the medium lasers are usually the crown jewel of a mech and everything else is bad poo poo you're forced to take instead of more mediums.
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May 13, 2015 01:10
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BattleTech feels like a setting that could do well with presenting different eras that have different mechs, equipment, and potentially rules to show changing technology and tactics. Say: Star League, Succession Wars, and Clan Invasion.
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May 13, 2015 01:15
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Cythereal posted:BattleTech feels like a setting that could do well with presenting different eras that have different mechs, equipment, and potentially rules to show changing technology and tactics. Say: Star League, Succession Wars, and Clan Invasion. This isn't how most people play? Do people not draft mechs for games from similar time frames? I always assumed more organized play was kind of like Flames of War with less clear structure (e.g. you can use mechs from X faction during Y time period for the game this Sunday, show up with a list and some minis)
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May 13, 2015 02:09
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DatonKallandor posted:Medium Lasers are dumb even with single heat sinks. The only situation where they're remotely okay is when the player doesn't get to min max and just stuff his mech full of them. And even in fixed loadout games, the medium lasers are usually the crown jewel of a mech and everything else is bad poo poo you're forced to take instead of more mediums. Yes. This is why 3025 nostalgia never quite worked for me. Clan stuff excepted, most of the new kit that comes out later in the timeline honestly struggles to compete with the standard medium laser.
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May 13, 2015 02:17
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Are there any generally accepted house rules to Medium Lasers that make them not king poo poo of mech mountain in 3025 play?
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May 13, 2015 02:36
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whydirt posted:Are there any generally accepted house rules to Medium Lasers that make them not king poo poo of mech mountain in 3025 play? "If your friend brings a Swayback, they are not your friend anymore. Punch them."
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May 13, 2015 02:41
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whydirt posted:Are there any generally accepted house rules to Medium Lasers that make them not king poo poo of mech mountain in 3025 play? Bump them up to 5 heat or drop them to 3 damage, making them 1/1 heat/damage efficient for 1 ton and 1 slot. They'd still be good weapons like that.
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May 13, 2015 02:44
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Use maps and objectives that don't turn every battle into a knife fight?
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May 13, 2015 02:45
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dis astranagant posted:Use maps and objectives that don't turn every battle into a knife fight? Blatantly steal scenarios from PTNs Let's Play Battletech thread.
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May 13, 2015 02:51
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whydirt posted:Are there any generally accepted house rules to Medium Lasers that make them not king poo poo of mech mountain in 3025 play? Ghost heat.
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May 13, 2015 02:55
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jng2058 posted:Read 'em and weep. I think the saddest thing about that trailer vs what we ended up with was that clearly at one point what was envisioned was a much slower-paced game. The conceit of Mechwarrior is much more plausible if you go all in on the premise that Mechs are made out of such a super-durable wonder material that it takes a ridiculous amount of punishment to knock one out, and even then the hull is going to be 95% intact and salvageable once you fix the few critical hits that dropped it.
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May 13, 2015 10:39
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Alchenar posted:I think the saddest thing about that trailer vs what we ended up with was that clearly at one point what was envisioned was a much slower-paced game. The conceit of Mechwarrior is much more plausible if you go all in on the premise that Mechs are made out of such a super-durable wonder material that it takes a ridiculous amount of punishment to knock one out, and even then the hull is going to be 95% intact and salvageable once you fix the few critical hits that dropped it. also that Warhammer is by himself instead of in a murderball with 11 of his teammates
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May 13, 2015 14:13
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Medium Lasers are a really good weapon, but you can't just boat them an expect to win. They have very short range, aren't hole punchers, and aren't very effective critseekers either. In terms of pure damage they are pretty unmatched, which is why they are never bad as secondary weapons on a mech, but you can't just throw medium lasers at an enemy and expect to win.
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May 13, 2015 15:14
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KnoxZone posted:Medium Lasers are a really good weapon, but you can't just boat them an expect to win. They have very short range, aren't hole punchers, and aren't very effective critseekers either. In terms of pure damage they are pretty unmatched, which is why they are never bad as secondary weapons on a mech, but you can't just throw medium lasers at an enemy and expect to win. one could say the same about machine guns, but Voyager I proved that to be incorrect. (amusingly enough I believe his Blackjack also had medium lasers.)
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May 13, 2015 17:24
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Psion posted:one could say the same about machine guns, but Voyager I proved that to be incorrect. All Blackjacks have medium lasers. Typically they're the only weapon on the Blackjack that's worth firing.
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May 13, 2015 17:48
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KnoxZone posted:Medium Lasers are a really good weapon, but you can't just boat them an expect to win. They have very short range, aren't hole punchers, and aren't very effective critseekers either. In terms of pure damage they are pretty unmatched, which is why they are never bad as secondary weapons on a mech, but you can't just throw medium lasers at an enemy and expect to win. This is tricky, because I agree with that statement for most cases, but the Swayback is basically throwing medium lasers at the enemy and expecting to win, and in 3025 play it usually works unless you have a really big map and the OPFOR has a ton of ranged punch. Even most heavies don't have the punch to consistently bring that thing down before it gets too close. Similarly, while the 3025 Fire Javelin doesn't have a ton of MLs, it is very definitely an ML boat, and is probably one of the most annoying mechs to run into in that time period. So there are very definitely even stock ML boats that you can expect to win fairly regularly with. I honestly don't feel like there's a good fix for ML supremacy. Making the damage:heat ratio 5:5 or 3:3 (or even 4:4) probably doesn't do enough - also 3:3 would be weird with the small laser being 3:1. Making the range 2/4/6 doesn't change how efficient they are in terms of both heat and tonnage. Occasionally I've thought that maybe making MLs weigh 2 tons might actually be the most balanced way to handle them for what they bring to the table, but then you have to go redesign everything that has MLs on it...it is not an easy fix. And don't get me started on rebalancing Clan lasers... It is probably much easier to make other weapons more viable (as the designers attempted to do by introducing LACs, for example) and just accept that most mechs will have at least a couple backup MLs (or ERMLs or MPLs), and that those backup weapons will do as much or more as their primaries. C'est la vie.
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May 13, 2015 18:34
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Fraction Jackson posted:Similarly, while the 3025 Fire Javelin doesn't have a ton of MLs, it is very definitely an ML boat, and is probably one of the most annoying mechs to run into in that time period. The Jenner JR7-F is an absolute bitch to fight in 3025. 4MLs are enough to force a PSR on a 'mech.
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May 13, 2015 21:47
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PhotoKirk posted:The Jenner JR7-F is an absolute bitch to fight in 3025. 4MLs are enough to force a PSR on a 'mech. Even the base model -D is a pain in the rear end. The extra armor and no chance of hitting SRM ammo makes the -F the harder 'mech to kill for sure, but even with the SRM-4, that's still four very mobile medium lasers to deal with.
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May 13, 2015 21:59
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Fraction Jackson posted:This is tricky, because I agree with that statement for most cases, but the Swayback is basically throwing medium lasers at the enemy and expecting to win, and in 3025 play it usually works unless you have a really big map and the OPFOR has a ton of ranged punch. Even most heavies don't have the punch to consistently bring that thing down before it gets too close. Similarly, while the 3025 Fire Javelin doesn't have a ton of MLs, it is very definitely an ML boat, and is probably one of the most annoying mechs to run into in that time period. So there are very definitely even stock ML boats that you can expect to win fairly regularly with. The core of rebalancing weaponry would be to examine the key weapons of each type: Medium Laser, AC/10, LRM-15, SRM-4, and go from there. IMHO, of course.
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May 13, 2015 22:44
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Psion posted:one could say the same about machine guns, but Voyager I proved that to be incorrect. ??? Voyager 1? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40r0l1ZCqgA ???????
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May 13, 2015 23:54
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Saint Celestine posted:??? Voyager 1? IIRC he's talking about one of the posters in the Battletech LP thread. One of the more recent missions involved a pirate war, where one of the player mechs was a Blackjack with 10 machine guns.
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May 15, 2015 14:30
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Tarezax posted:IIRC he's talking about one of the posters in the Battletech LP thread. One of the more recent missions involved a pirate war, where one of the player mechs was a Blackjack with 10 machine guns. You do recall correctly. King of the Pirates scenario. Just count up every crit the Blackjack gets. (a lot)
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May 15, 2015 16:50
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Tarezax posted:IIRC he's talking about one of the posters in the Battletech LP thread. One of the more recent missions involved a pirate war, where one of the player mechs was a Blackjack with 10 machine guns. It wasn't 10 machine guns. It was 20. 
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May 15, 2015 17:13
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AJ_Impy posted:Ghost heat. I'm getting flashbacks.
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May 16, 2015 20:08
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Tarezax posted:IIRC he's talking about one of the posters in the Battletech LP thread. One of the more recent missions involved a pirate war, where one of the player mechs was a Blackjack with 10 machine guns. Didn't that kind of machine eventually become a canon unit after the clan invasion? And I don't know if this is a good place for asking, but what is the best way to get in to the tabletop battletech thread?
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May 17, 2015 02:06
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You mean, as a player, or understanding WTF is going on, orrrrrrrrrr?
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May 17, 2015 02:11
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Corponation posted:Didn't that kind of machine eventually become a canon unit after the clan invasion? http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Piranha
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May 17, 2015 02:19
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Psion posted:You mean, as a player, or understanding WTF is going on, orrrrrrrrrr? Oh right sorry, as a player. There it is. Things like that and the Rifleman IIC are why I'm sometimes weary of people picking their own machines.
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May 17, 2015 04:47
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The Piranha isn't that scary. It's super fragile and anything with an LB-10x can do as much critseek from way farther way. It's not even especially fast for a clan light mech.
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May 17, 2015 04:50
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What the Pirahna will do is make you wish the other guy was smart and had a partitioned and transparent box of dice to handle bulk rolls. Or, uh Were playing Megamek
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May 17, 2015 04:51
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Corponation posted:Oh right sorry, as a player.
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May 17, 2015 04:52
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Corponation posted:Oh right sorry, as a player. I just posted in the BT thread asking about getting added to the pilot list and PTN put me on the list. I'd suggest that approach. You could PM him too, I guess! then wait, uh, a while. I think the waitlist is down to less than two years now. Let me tell you: worth it. e: wow, too slow.
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May 17, 2015 04:57
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What you have to worry about with people bringing custom mechs is stupid poo poo like 7/11/11 45 tonners (with 13.5 tons for weapons and armor) or Jebediah Pirateman rigging an Atlas to fly.
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May 17, 2015 05:28
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Well, I just finished actually watching all the videos in this thread, so I'm all caught up and ready for the Bethany Cochraine run!  ... that's still happening, right? 
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May 25, 2015 06:16
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