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Hello all!! I'm losing sleep over this.. 24 year old almost 25. Art has always been a huge passion of mine, but I was scared out of it in high school. My current situation is that I am teaching English abroad part time (around 20 hours). I'm currently trying to study graphic design and illustration in my spare time, along with Spanish (I live in Spain), and right now trying to find some small social media job or volunteer gig so that I might have a chance of employment upon my contract here ending in 8 moths. I have a degree from a prominent university in an unrelated field. I love art, especially illustration, and I also enjoy graphic design. But I can't decide between marketing and graphic design. ... or illustration, but.. I was working in marketing and doing some freelance graphic design/illustration before moving to Europe to teach English. This is my second year teaching. The plan was to enjoy living in another country for a short time and then go back to school for concept art at the concept design academy. However, after a lot of research on the subject, I discovered that concept art was a really difficult a field to break into. I love the idea of it, having such huge sacrifices for an uncertain outcome really scared me. So, graphic design and illustration seemed like a more practical choice. I did a ton of research on schools and certificate programs, etc, and in Europe and the United States. I can't take out a billion dollars in loans. The two best options I found was one in Germany which is basically free but I know nothing about and I'm not sure of the quality, and is in Bremen. One in Scotland, which looks really "legit", only charges around $2,000 a year (but I would have to wait until I was 26 to enter, because I would need a 3 year resident requirement in Europe before getting that price), and it is a 4 year program, and a 3 year affordable after work program in the states. They also have a 1-2 year master's program. T Additionally, in my university town (Los Angeles) they have a 3 year after work graphic design certificate program at a famous art school. The country I live in has really cheap options, but they are of really dubious quality and I can't imagine myself living here for another 3 or 4 years as I do not like the culture. Basically I'm at a crossroads and I'm feeling really stuck and stressed out about what route to take. My problem is that I love artistic, creative things and feel sad when I'm not doing them, but I also really like working in marketing, strategizing and the idea of having a lot of responsibility in planning the direction of a company or nonprofit, maybe going on business trips, that sort of thing. And most of all I'm really terrified about the horror stories. I could basically see myself being happy in both fields, but the downsides seem to be either that I would really regret not having done art, or that I am really poor, work really long hours, and are stressed about no job stability and advancement. Right now the best plan I've been able to think of is try to get a 9-5 marketing job and try to study graphic design and illustration after work to build a portfolio. But I'm afraid that it might get me "good enough", but then again, at least I would have a roof over my head... So, my general questions are: 1. Is it possible to get a job which has aspects of a traditional business/marketing job AND graphic design/illustration/creative stuff, outside of entry level or internships? (I've mostly seen advertisements for graphic design and marketing in the same description for interns). I had an internship at a nonprofit where I did marketing and graphic design/illustration (to draw the graphics), and I really loved it. Something like that would be my ideal job. But I don't know if this sort of combined situation is something that is only found in internships and lowlevel stuff. 2. Is the saying true that "If you can think of anything else you would be happy doing, you shouldn't do art"? Any advice on how to figure this out? 3. Any general advice for people on whether or not to "take the plunge" if they could see themselves being happy either way? I love art but I'm terrified of the idea of terrible working hours and constantly being in and out of work. and/or massive loans which I can't pay. 4. Is it a bad idea to want to find a job in Europe (but a different country because although I speak the language here, I don't like the culture I am in..) because I want to have a lot of vacation time and close proximity to travel, one of my big passions? Also, my boyfriend lives here? .. I'm the process of getting EU citizenship. I guess emotionally what has been difficult for me is just accepting that this is probably not going to work out. I graduated in 2012 and I had this big plan about going back to school for art, but at the time I graduated I wasn't entirely sure about it, and now it just feels too late and too risky. Would be really grateful for any input. Been feeling extremely stressed and depressed about it.. feels like my options are either "Be sad" or "be broke" blubberjump fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Oct 23, 2014 |
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Oct 23, 2014 06:57
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Another crucial point: I have almost nothing in savings. Literally maybe 400 USA$. Before moving to Spain I had a lot of problems with my family which left me homeless during said amazing internship, and then I had to pay for a lot of expensive psychotherapy due to developing PTSD. We have a "relationship" now but the idea of having to rely on them financially in any way shape or form terrifies me because they have been really abusive to me in the past. So for that reason, as much as it pains me, I'm also thinking about maybe quitting my current ESL job in December when the school has winter break and trying to find a job in the states then, and then gain savings with it until my EU citizenship comes through.. The great thing with this job is that I can travel CONSTANTLY, but it's risky because as I said, I barely break even and have no savings..
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Oct 23, 2014 07:14
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UCLA or USC grad? This is important.
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Oct 23, 2014 08:46
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bruins!
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Oct 23, 2014 10:18
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bruins!
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Oct 23, 2014 10:25
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blubberjump posted:words 2 - My gut feeling is there is a lot of truth to that statement. Plenty of people do jobs they don't love because it allows them to pursue something they're passionate about. There are good 9-5 jobs out there, with good companies who treat their people well, but it takes a few tries to find them. I don't think there's any shame or anything wrong with working a good, if boring, regular job that allows you to focus on your passion. 3 - If you're going to take the plunge, be smart about it. Don't go to a for-profit degree mill (you probably know that), and if you can take advantage of cheap education in Europe, then do it. I don't know anything about the industries you want to work in, so I can't say much more than that. If you're going to have to drop $100k on a degree just to get a $30k/year job, some people might be able to make that work, but it sounds crazy to me. 4 - I lived in Europe too and can completely understand the attraction. You mentioned a school option in Germany, I would say go for that. There's a shitload of jobs (especially compared to Spain) so you and your boyfriend should be able to find jobs. You mentioned you don't have much of a family support structure to depend on if/when you return to the states. If you are going to come back, find friends to stay with, call in every favor you can, or whatever. Speaking from experience, moving back costs a truckload of cash. blubberjump posted:feels like my options are either "Be sad" or "be broke" My Rhythmic Crotch fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Oct 24, 2014 |
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Oct 24, 2014 01:44
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Your enjoyment of a particular job is about: 10% related to what you're actually doing 90% related to the type of people you're working with and how you get a long with your coworkers/boss
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Oct 24, 2014 02:04
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blubberjump posted:So, my general questions are: 1. Is it possible to get a job which has aspects of a traditional business/marketing job AND graphic design/illustration/creative stuff, outside of entry level or internships? (I've mostly seen advertisements for graphic design and marketing in the same description for interns). So I guess what I'm saying is: They are often separate, but you can find roles where there is either some overlap or complete overlap. That is, if this is the kind of stuff that you think of as "traditional business/marketing."
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Oct 24, 2014 02:14
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blubberjump posted:this is probably not going to work out. Art really isn't a career path that you go into with the expectation that things are going to 'work out' for you if you just try really really hard and cross your fingers and believe in yourself. Do you honestly think that going to school is going to result in you nabbing a job that isn't internship or junior/entry level? That your portfolio is going to be so mind-blowingly astounding that you'll be handed a creative director gig with zero experience? You're going to have to work very, very hard, and dedicate serious time (and, yes, money) to training. You will have to take low-paid internships in addition to cultivating industry connections. If you're any good, you might be able to eek yourself into a full-time position within a firm, but that's usually only once you've shaken 1,000 hands and proven to all of them that you are really, really good at what you do. Illustration, specifically, is an extremely oversaturated industry full of confident, talented cutthroats who are all competing for the same small handful of salaried positions, of which fewer and fewer exist every year. Outside of that, your options are to get an agent to whom you'll pay 30-50% of your 'cut' which is likely just a percentage commission on units sold (if you go into product/surface illustration) or piecemeal one-off gigs which provide no guaranteed source of income. Landing a sweet retainer is almost unheard of since the economy wet the bed in 2008. That, or you can go it alone and drown among the sea of absurdly talented competition who eat, live, breathe, poo poo, and drink art every single day because they can't do anything else. Go focus on finding a lucrative career in marketing that will allow you get your brain fixed and then travel the world or whatever you want to do with your time. You're not going to make it in the art world if you're not confident in yourself and your abilities, and if just want to do it because you think you're going to make enough money to be happy. You're not going to make a lot of money. Just repeat that like 10,000 times until you understand that people do not go into art to make money. This is especially true if you live in the economic black hole of Europe right now, with no formal education/training, no professional circle or connections, and no portfolio to speak of. I figure I probably sound like a jerk, but I'm really just being honest. Don't go into this career with such doe-eyed naïveté because this world can and will bite you, and it will hurt. If you really are willing to put forth the effort, then it can be an incredibly rewarding experience and you can sit back knowing that people appreciate what you've toiled to create. I've really enjoyed my career as an artist, but I've been doing this for over a decade and took nearly as long for things to settle down and become less stressful. Ten years is a very significant chunk of time to gamble on a career that doesn't come with any guarantees.
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Oct 24, 2014 06:49
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I don't know if I'll be much help since I know jack and poo poo about marketing and art, but I was in a similar situation minus the abroad part after I graduated from UCLA during the recession. Only advice I can think of is explore both art and marketing opportunities, and figure out what you really really want to do. Don't focus so much on the "dream job" that combines everything you love at this point. I graduated with a linguistics degree and now am in the medical field (and love it very much). I never expected my life to head in that direction, and it was only through experience by dabbling in low end medical jobs that I figured out that was indeed the field I wanted to be in.
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Oct 24, 2014 08:31
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You can always make art on the side you know.
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Oct 24, 2014 13:43
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Which colleges in Scotland and Germany are you looking into? Scotland and Germany are quite good for artists because of the support and funding available to artists. Most funding for both is supplied by state and charitable institutions and you can live comfortably if you are driven and know what to do.
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Nov 8, 2014 16:28
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almost 25, eh? you better figure this out before you are 25 3/8ths!
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Nov 9, 2014 06:50
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If you do graphic design, make certain you go to a school that focuses on advertising like Miami Ad School. The problem with graphic design is that everyone knows someone that says they can do it, and some people can. But companies tend to outsource a lot of the work to developing countries because it is cheaper. If you get a degree from an ad school, they'll help you make your portfolio and help get you a job at a large ad agency like Razorfish or 72 and Sunny.
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Nov 9, 2014 13:16
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a var of piss posted:Which colleges in Scotland and Germany are you looking into? It's significantly harder if you're not a German (or EU) citizen, though. It's not even that easy to get a visa for the entire duration of a college education if you don't have money to your name, or parents who pay for everything, let alone one that lets you find work. If s/he actually gets EU citizenship though, I don't really see why you would only find one specific program in all of Germany; public universties are completely free (other than some administrative fees), graphic design is not exactly an uncommon thing to do, and everything in that area that costs significant money is proably some form of exploitative degree mill anyway. I'm very sure that there are at least 100 schools where you could get a degree in some kind of graphic design for free, and Germany is just an example.
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Nov 9, 2014 20:32
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1) don't assume you need to go back to school to change or learn a new profession. If you have no money, then self learning, free workshops and networking are your school. 2) consider a UX design career. It involves a lot of the things you mentioned, and your marketing background would be valuable as well. 3) you're only 24, you have time to figure this all out. He main thing you want to address right now is getting some more money. You can work a 9-5 and figure out what you want in a job/career at the same time, you don't need to figure it out before you start.
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Nov 11, 2014 16:52
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If you're talking about Art Center, they seem to have a pretty fantastic Graphic Design program with a huge alumni network. That being said, the workload is insane and there were many times where my girlfriend couldn't sleep because of the sheer amount of work they would have to do. The people who end up working for consulting/design houses/startups end up making a pretty decent amount of money for first year design students. Edit: It'll also put you in some pretty substantial amount of debt though.
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Nov 14, 2014 20:26
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