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Based on stellar skills, ample opportunity, and rugged good looks, I find myself in the position of having to choose between two different cities in which to immigrate to for my career. I am from the United States, currently living in Alberta, and have two opportunities for transfer to the province of Quebec. The cities I must choose between are Montreal and Quebec City. Both have advantages and disadvantages that I'm curious about exploring more, but I also want to discuss and learn more from people that live or have lived in those locations. I did fly out to Quebec City to visit, and made sure to do not-touristy things. I absolutely loved it. I have not visited Montreal yet, though I have lived near large Metropolitan cities like Washington, DC. I would probably enjoy it there, too. Both places of employment use English as their official language. I have a wife and several younger children. Living somewhere family-oriented is important. Cost of living seems comparable, though based on indexes found online, QBC seems to be slightly lower than MTL. In fact, some of the guides even suggest that QBC is slightly cheaper than Edmonton! (Which maybe doesn't surprise me because EDM housing/heating/electricity is RIDICULOUS) In practice though, is there anything to keep in mind in regards to costs around these areas? Are there any taxes or such that I may find in one city and not the other? How's housing? I notice that it's tougher to find something that isn't a condo to buy on the main island of MTL, but is the transportation system decent enough that I could live outside of the heart of downtown and still be able to get there in decent time? Getting around QBC without initially knowing French. It seemed easy enough for the days that I was there. Is it more daunting over time? What about MTL? Are there any neighborhoods that you'd recommend for families? Any to stay away from? (Note: office in Quebec City is located in St. Roch, Montreal office is in Ville-Marie) If you had to narrow it down, what are the best or most attractive qualities of either city? Are there any community quirks or other things to be aware of? Any utility stuff to be aware of? (Insurance, commodities, cable subscription goblins, etc) What would be the biggest surprise, in your opinion (good or bad), for a new resident of either place? Thank you for your insight and/or advice!
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Jan 29, 2015 01:30
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 05:14 |
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I personally dislike Quebec City but I don’t have kids to contend with so take that as you will. QC has always felt like a big suburb to me which I don’t like. With a family that might be your bag. While you’ll be able to converse in English in both cities, it’s going to be much easier and prevalent around you in MTL. You might get some dirty looks in some places if you don’t make an effort in French but those are few and far between and not as overblown as many people make them. Cost of living: QC rent/housing is cheaper than Montreal. Taxes and utilities will be fairly similar depending on the neighborhood you’re in. For utilities you’ll be dealing with Hydro-Quebec either way. Electric utility costs will shoot up during the winter months if heating’s not included in your rent. Phone/Cable will 99% of the time be either Bell or Videotron. Both suck in their own special ways but I find the service at Videotron less sucky. People have told me the exact opposite so pick your poison. You're looking at roughly 150$/month for cable/phone/high speed internet. Climate: Both are hot and muggy in the summer (highs in the 90s) and cold in the winter (lows in the negative teens). QC is slight colder and gets a bit more snow. Areas: Ville-Marie is basically the downtown core of MTL. You can live there but then be prepared to pay a premium for that and for not being able to find affordable housing that is not condo-like (and those are shooting up in prices). There’s not really any bad neighborhood in MTL. Avoid super low cost areas and you’ll be fine. In broad terms, Montreal is divided into the East and West at St-Laurence Street. The East tends to be more Francophone and the West more Anglophone. Notable areas include: The Plateau Mt-Royal for all your hipster needs, the Old-Port for when you feel like playing tourist, Westmount for all the rich Anglos and Outremont for all the rich French. I’d suggest to start by looking at price ranges on housing sites and see where they figure on the map – both for QC and MTL - and go from there. If you want to go a bit further out, there’s the city of Laval just north of MTL and the south shore area just, well, south. Both are easily accessible via transit and might be more of what you had in mind re: family living. Transit: QC transit is fine although there is no subway, it’s all buses. MTL has a great transit system. You can go pretty much anywhere on the island with a combination of buses and subway. Both places are disaster in terms of road infrastructure (MTL slightly more so) but that’s more of a provincial thing. Things to do: This is where MTL wins hands down over QC IMO. Better restaurants, museums, festivals (Just for Laughs, Jazz, Cinema, Fireworks, etc.), beautiful parks to walk around – including the huge wooded area of Mt-Royal park – bars, theaters, you name it. And if you’re into sports, MTL is a hockey town with the Montreal Canadians. In the end, Montreal is just more cosmopolitan and inclusive than I found QC to be. I’ve lived and worked in both cities and would rather live in Montreal any day of the week. Someone with kids might say different but I know plenty of people with families who would never leave MTL. http://www.livingin-canada.com/living-in-montreal.html Good luck!
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Jan 29, 2015 22:11
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If you don't speak French, it's going to be much easier for you in Montreal. I would choose Montreal over Quebec City, but I went to uni in the former and loved it, and only visited the latter once.
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Jan 29, 2015 23:56
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Stroop There It Is posted:If you don't speak French, it's going to be much easier for you in Montreal. I would choose Montreal over Quebec City, but I went to uni in the former and loved it, and only visited the latter once. Pretty much this. Most people in Montreal are bilingual and will speak both English and French. While people in the touristy parts of QC will speak English, not as many will, and perhaps more importantly, not as many people will be willing to speak English there. Between that and the number of things to do in Montreal (concerts, fesitvals, restaurants etc), I'd be more inclined to pick Montreal.
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Jan 30, 2015 03:25
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QuantumDeep posted:Pretty much this. Most people in Montreal are bilingual and will speak both English and French. While people in the touristy parts of QC will speak English, not as many will, and perhaps more importantly, not as many people will be willing to speak English there. Between that and the number of things to do in Montreal (concerts, fesitvals, restaurants etc), I'd be more inclined to pick Montreal. All the people I met from QC, if they spoke English, didn't seem to mind speaking it nearly as much as Francophone Montrealers. Frankly, Montreal had way too many assholes for my taste regardless of language and everyone I met from Quebec City was way friendlier. Montreal is a lovely city to visit, but you couldn't pay me to move back there.
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Jan 30, 2015 04:30
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PT6A posted:All the people I met from QC, if they spoke English, didn't seem to mind speaking it nearly as much as Francophone Montrealers. That said, Montreal definitely has more of a big city feel than Quebec, which comes along with a more surly populace--I'd agree that people seem generally friendlier in Quebec. I'm from Boston, though, so that weirds me out. Francophones also have more reason to be defensive about maintaining their language in Montreal than Quebec, given the much greater number of Anglophones in the former city (not to mention the historical context), so I wouldn't be too surprised if you encountered it more in Montreal than Quebec. I honestly never encountered anyone who was hostile about or refused to speak English if they could. 
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Jan 30, 2015 05:29
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Stroop There It Is posted:That said, Montreal definitely has more of a big city feel than Quebec, which comes along with a more surly populace--I'd agree that people seem generally friendlier in Quebec. I'm from Boston, though, so that weirds me out. So it sounds like the public transportation system is pretty sweet in Montreal. Coming from always having 2 cars, can you get around most places without a car, even to the other islands at a decent speed? Living on the outskirts of downtown would probably be a better fit for my family, but my wife is a huge big city fan; access would still be key. And for me, I don't mind living outside of the city heart if I can use public transit to get to work in a decent amount of time. Like if someone lives in Dorval for instance, can you get to downtown in 30-45 minutes using public transit? What about places like Longueuil? And how "walkable" are outskirts of the main island? Can you still do shopping and such on foot, or is that mostly exclusive to downtown?
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Jan 30, 2015 23:47
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I have family over Quebec, but as a result I've really only visited both as a tourist. I preferred Montreal because it feels more like a big city to me, but Quebec City is amazing too. As a history nerd, I love that it's the only city in North America that's been fortified. I doubt that weighs into your calculations though. Quebec is a really cool place in general.
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Jan 31, 2015 01:42
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Hazed_blue posted:And how "walkable" are outskirts of the main island? Can you still do shopping and such on foot, or is that mostly exclusive to downtown? You sound confused so I just want to make sure: Montreal is really only one island (~ 10 times the size of Manhattan), and "downtown" is a small fraction of this. Yes you can probably get downtown from Dorval or Longueuil in 30 minutes by bus/metro. Most places on the island are walkable. I have not ever owned a car and do not plan to. You can get to Laval or the south shore by metro but only the very edge of it. After that you would have to deal with the suburbs' own public transport (which is separate from Montreal's). Most places (but not everywhere) off the island are highways and malls. How old are your kids? Will you send them to school in French? If for whatever reason you'd rather not, please take a good look into the applicable laws first. There are restrictions, and if you're allowed to send them to school in English there will be more room in Montreal schools than in Quebec City. PT6A posted:Frankly, Montreal had way too many assholes for my taste regardless of language and everyone I met from Quebec City was way friendlier. Montreal is a lovely city to visit, but you couldn't pay me to move back there. Frankly, you are a terrible poo poo poster and I have despised you for years. Probably people were assholes to you because you deserve it.
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Jan 31, 2015 02:19
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ShimaTetsuo posted:Frankly, you are a terrible poo poo poster and I have despised you for years. Probably people were assholes to you because you deserve it. Yeah, you're making a really great case for Montrealers being friendly here... Downtown Montreal is the only place I've been in the entire loving world where people have made fun of me for trying to speak a second language instead of being encouraging. As soon as I left just downtown people's attitudes unfucked themselves. I don't know what made people in downtown Montreal so hostile, but it certainly wasn't a city-wide or province-wide thing, nor has it happened anywhere else I've been in the world, so I'm guessing it's not entirely my fault. Looking back on it, I consider living in downtown Montreal one of the biggest mistakes of my life, and I just want OP to hear the bad experiences as well as the good.
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Jan 31, 2015 04:34
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ShimaTetsuo posted:You sound confused so I just want to make sure: Montreal is really only one island (~ 10 times the size of Manhattan), and "downtown" is a small fraction of this. Yes you can probably get downtown from Dorval or Longueuil in 30 minutes by bus/metro. Most places on the island are walkable. I have not ever owned a car and do not plan to. To answer your question, my kids are 6, 4, 2, and a newborn. My oldest is in French immersion right now (and loving it), and I plan on putting all of them in the same program. You mention restrictions. Is the primary language of education in Montreal English, French, or does it depend on where you live?
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Jan 31, 2015 05:56
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PT6A posted:Yeah, you're making a really great case for Montrealers being friendly here... Do you consider dieu du ciel downtown? I spoke english there and its probably the best service I've ever had at a bar.
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Jan 31, 2015 06:11
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Hazed_blue posted:Ah, thank you for the clarification. Admittedly the geography threw me off a little bit, in part because I'm used to the grand city sprawl known as Edmonton, which while there are distinct pockets divided out to every corner, is all still considered "the city of Edmonton." It's weird. It's not dependent on where you live, no. I believe that the rule is that if your kid has been in English school in Canada "for most of their life" - I don't know that how long is explicitly defined - they can go to English school in Quebec. Otherwise they go to a French-speaking school. There are ways to get around that like sending them to English private schools but that costs money. Personally, at their age, I'd send them to French school. They'll pick up the language really quick and you can still speak English at home. They'll be bilingual in no time.
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Jan 31, 2015 14:33
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Hulk Smash! posted:It's not dependent on where you live, no. I believe that the rule is that if your kid has been in English school in Canada "for most of their life" - I don't know that how long is explicitly defined - they can go to English school in Quebec. Otherwise they go to a French-speaking school. There are ways to get around that like sending them to English private schools but that costs money. Personally, at their age, I'd send them to French school. They'll pick up the language really quick and you can still speak English at home. They'll be bilingual in no time. To elaborate, here's the rules for getting into an english school. http://www.emsb.qc.ca/en/services_en/pages/registration_en.asp#3 By the sounds of it, the South Shore of Montreal could be attractive. Depending on where exactly you live, you should expect public transit commutes in the hour range, but rent will be much more attractive for a family of Six. The main communities on the South Shore are; Longeuil; The largest, makeup mostly French-Canadian with growing multiculturalism. Fairly cheap to live in depending on the neigbourhood. Close to the Yellow line of the subway, giving speedy access to Montreal. Saint Lambert/Greenfield Park/Preville; Used to be predominantly English dominated, now becoming much more diverse and Francophone. Saint Lambert is $$$ but a very attractive town, while the other two are somewhat cheaper but still reasonably nice. Sort of between the other two transit wise. Brossard; The other huge city on the shore. Makeup pretty cosmopolitain, depending on the section ranges from upscale McMansions to cheaper areas. Busses over the Champlain bridge can get you to downtown fairly quickly, but much more vulnerable to traffic. After that there's options even further out, but at that point public transit and owning a car are sort of at equilibrium or balanced towards car ownership.
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Jan 31, 2015 18:30
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 05:14 |
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Lumius posted:Do you consider dieu du ciel downtown? I spoke english there and its probably the best service I've ever had at a bar. Not really, that's Mile End. I spent many a good time at Dieu du Ciel! and everyone was nothing but friendly to me, no matter which languages we were speaking. I don't know the formal definition of downtown, but I'd probably consider it to include the "wider" definition on Wikipedia: bordered by des Pins, Atwater, St-Laurent and probably whatever street forms the northern boundary of Old Montreal (can't remember what it was called). That box has the highest concentration of assholes I've ever encountered in the world, whereas the rest of the city was full of much friendlier people.
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Jan 31, 2015 18:30
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