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Like the title says, I've been recording song arrangements involving acoustic or electric guitar, and voice, in various combinations. The songs are from movies, TV, and videogames. They are not amazing, especially the quality of the recordings, and I'm not an amazing player, so primarily I'm interested in feedback about which of these songs have potential, so that I'd work to record them better. Also, perhaps you don't like some arrangements at all right now, but you know a way to make them good. Finally, maybe you have some mastering tips. I've mostly been cutting low frequencies and bringing out high frequencies to make the acoustic guitar less boomy, and adding reverb where it feels appropriate. I can't do much about my recording environment though. A bit of extra explanation: I started out making these arrangements before I had any recording equipment, so I tried to make them playable by one person in one pass. Which is why some of them will probably sound sparse. This could be changed, although I kind of consider the sparseness the songs' main selling point. That is, they already exist in a complete ensemble form, and I can't bring anything other than my guitar and voice really. I know this will sound odd to some people here, but that's how I feel. One more thing: This is about half of the arrangements I want to record, but I'm not sure at what rate I'll be able to do it. Still, I want to focus on that, and update the thread when I have a new recording. Which means that I probably won't apply your feedback straightaway. The recordings: Siege of Madrigal from games Myth/Halo A theme from the show House Jourey of the sorcerer from The Hitch-Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy The movie version. John 19:41 from Jesus Christ Superstar This is actually an arrangement by a guy called Robb Anagnostis I found somewhere on the web a long time ago, but I recorded it for some reason, and I can't decide that it completely doesn't belong here. Fort Walton from the movie The Rock Words Win Wars from Doctor Who Time Only Knows from the game Prince Of Persia: The Sands Of Time Laura Lyons from a Russian TV show about Sherlock Holmes which no one here will know, but I like the tune. What do you think?  Edit: Forgot the most important thing, right.  (The thread tag.)Edit 2: Forgot a recording now: Theme from the show Sherlock supermikhail fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Mar 29, 2015 |
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Mar 28, 2015 17:14
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I'm only listening on crappy speakers right now and I don't know most of these, but I can give you some feedback! This is cool, the vocal harmonies are a nice touch too. I'm not going to get critical about them, but if you do want them a little slicker, they're a little wavery in places (not necessarily a bad thing) and you might want to loop record until you nail a strong take. Playing with a wider stereo field and a little reverb might be cool too, especially moving them away from the centre so the guitar can take the spotlight without being stepped on This goes for most of what I've heard - the guitar is quite weak in places, in terms of volume. Part of that comes from playing ability and confidence, really leaning into the performance and making every note count, but it's also about the production too. A dynamic piece with loud parts and soft parts really benefits from some compression, which ideally evens out the volume differences without erasing the dynamic feel - it still sounds loud and soft, but it still holds its own in the mix. I reckon this is probably the thing that will take your recordings to a higher level, because they just sound so different and alive when they're evened out. There are a lot of ways to do it - playing loud to tape, using a mic preamp, software plugins - but pretty much everything recorded that you ever hear has been compressed to some degree, so it's worth getting a handle on it. Oh also, varying mic placement makes a big difference with acoustic guitar, so try getting that right before you hit the EQ. Don't cut the low frequencies too much - the guitar is the star with these, and you want to keep its character. A lot of the boominess comes from around the 250Hz area (depends what kind of sound you mean really), but you don't want to remove or weaken the resonance and unbalance the voice of the instrument. When you're mixing with other instruments you'll need to make some space for their frequencies to come through, but as a solo instrument it should be more about polish I think I know you posted this one before as an arrangement you found - I really get the feeling you're meant to play it percussively, the rhythm drops out when you switch from drumming to picking, and it's kinda jarring. The rhythm ends up lost and it sort of sounds confused to me. Some of the hits coincide with the notes, so try playing them more aggressively, or actually drumming on the strings so you get the percussive hit as well as the note. The arrangement is pretty sparse so it feels like this was the idea, and even if it isn't I think it's worth trying! supermikhail posted:Jourey of the sorcerer from The Hitch-Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy The movie version. I like the first part, it's pretty tight and urgent. I feel like I'm saying this a lot but the pauses between sections are what hurts it, if you practice those changes specifically it'll all tie together and sound way cooler. I'm not really a fan of the strummed part, it sounds really heavy handed and behind the beat, and the strings don't ring clearly. Are you strumming with your fingers? You might need to work on your technique, especially if you usually use a pick. Or try switching to a pick for that part, there's a pause so you could pick one up or take it out of your mouth or whatever. Try practicing to a metronome and make sure you can keep up the speed and energy when you hit that part, it'll sound way better supermikhail posted:John 19:41 from Jesus Christ Superstar This is actually an arrangement by a guy called Robb Anagnostis I found somewhere on the web a long time ago, but I recorded it for some reason, and I can't decide that it completely doesn't belong here. I think the main thing that jumps out at me here is that you obviously have some timing issues, where you're struggling to get into position so you end up pausing. There's a dynamic called rubato where you can speed up or slow down in your phrasing for effect, and it might be worth trying to use that when you need a moment - make those pauses part of the ebb and flow, so it feels intentional and natural One of your strings (?) is really out of tune here too (I hear it on others but it's pretty jarring here) This is cool, I like this one. Obviously some of your timing is uneven, but I think what I'd concentrate on here is the transitions - you have these nice arpeggiated chords and the like, and then you slide into a higher 'lead' part, but there's sort of a pause like you're getting ready for the next section, so it kinda feels like 'ok... now this bit'. If you focus on practicing going from one part straight into the next, confidently, that'll change the whole feel. Emphasing that pulsing bass note might help too, get yr stomp on This sounds like the most ambitious one so far - the guitar tone is a lot more even and pleasant, and your picking rhythm is pretty strong! Your fretting is letting you down a little, some of the notes are obviously choking - it might be your guitar's setup too, so whatever you need to do there. The transitions into the different parts are... they don't feel unconfident here, it's more that there are big changes happening but they're kinda sprung on the listener, so that feels jarring. Maybe work on leading into them, like with the one around 0:30 where it's slow and then fast, maybe really drag out the slow part and then jump into the fast bit, or start the fast part slowly and speed up, something like that. It would help with the key changes too, some of the parts feel kinda disconnected Hope that wasn't too critical (can't listen to the others right now, sorry!), you've got some good stuff here - you just need to improve a couple of technique areas to see a big difference, I think. Recording is hard because you have to nail it, so you have to develop that consistency no matter how hard or simple the music you're playing
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Apr 1, 2015 18:22
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First of all, I very much appreciate your reply. Even though I took my time acknowledging it - but for some reason today's a day when I felt like being super-focused on work and chores... Also, you're getting to be a kind of mentor, aren't you. No pressure though. Okay, enough pleasantries. baka kaba posted:I'm not going to get critical about them, but if you do want them a little slicker, they're a little wavery in places (not necessarily a bad thing) and you might want to loop record until you nail a strong take. Playing with a wider stereo field and a little reverb might be cool too, especially moving them away from the centre so the guitar can take the spotlight without being stepped on  Yeah. Maybe we're not exactly thinking about the same thing, but I do run out of air and my voice begins dying. When I simply practice I focus on range and consistency (if that makes sense), not duration. Although to be fair, tutorial videos I've seen don't focus on the latter either.If it's about the general waveriness, I'm working on it. About the stereo: In my head I actually normally imagine a reverse situation - a choir sitting in the middle of the stage, and the instrument slightly to the side. Or I guess not the choir, but the whole band. Rock bands are usually arranged like that - lead singer center-stage and guitars to the side, although thinking about it, that's not necessarily how the sound comes out of the speakers. I'll try your suggestion next time. baka kaba posted:A dynamic piece with loud parts and soft parts really benefits from some compression, which ideally evens out the volume differences without erasing the dynamic feel - it still sounds loud and soft, but it still holds its own in the mix. I've got a confession to make: I use Audacity for everything.  And I haven't been able to figure out the compression plugins that come with it. And I do it currently on Linux, although I'm not some kind of Linux fanatic. It's just that I was able to figure out how to connect everything and record in Audacity under Linux... Plus it seems to work, sort of. Having only post effects is a pain, just as the limited looping options. On the other hand, the internet doesn't make it easy to choose recording software. Any hints?baka kaba posted:I know you posted this one before as an arrangement you found - I really get the feeling you're meant to play it percussively, the rhythm drops out when you switch from drumming to picking, and it's kinda jarring. The rhythm ends up lost and it sort of sounds confused to me. Some of the hits coincide with the notes, so try playing them more aggressively, or actually drumming on the strings so you get the percussive hit as well as the note. The arrangement is pretty sparse so it feels like this was the idea, and even if it isn't I think it's worth trying! Oh, no, I am solely to blame for this arrangement, so obviously you're barely meant to play it as anything. I've been getting more into a kind of recording mood with time, and right now I feel that maybe it's unnecessary to do this song all in a single take. That is, I really could do drumming and picking separately. And maybe add something extra in a few additional passes (as you have perhaps suggested previously). Although this particular recording was done solely with the intent that "these are the notes, and that is the rhythm, make of it what you will". baka kaba posted:I feel like I'm saying this a lot but the pauses between sections are what hurts it, if you practice those changes specifically it'll all tie together and sound way cooler. I just want to mention that I specifically didn't cut out the pauses because this thread is not supposed to provide a polished listening experience.  Admittedly, I don't think I've ever practiced Journey of the Sorcerer to a timer. I've always justified this to myself by wanting to add emotion to the first part by perhaps overextending some notes. Although as you've mentioned, as a result the strummed part ends up behind the beat (and possibly the picked part ahead of it).I normally use fingers actually, on both guitars, thanks to the guitar megathread. You're probably right about switching to a pick for the strumming part. I've just tried it and it sounds kind of more consistent. But to be frank, I didn't have much confidence in this composition from the start. baka kaba posted:I think the main thing that jumps out at me here is that you obviously have some timing issues, where you're struggling to get into position so you end up pausing. There's a dynamic called rubato where you can speed up or slow down in your phrasing for effect, and it might be worth trying to use that when you need a moment - make those pauses part of the ebb and flow, so it feels intentional and natural I actually have been trying to do the word I didn't know until now - rubato - and it's rather disappointing that it doesn't sound like that. I feel that in general this composition should be more liberal about the rhythm and dynamics. Yeah, not tuning up my instrument before recording, I'm guilty of that. Sorry.baka kaba posted:Obviously some of your timing is uneven, but I think what I'd concentrate on here is the transitions - you have these nice arpeggiated chords and the like, and then you slide into a higher 'lead' part, but there's sort of a pause like you're getting ready for the next section, so it kinda feels like 'ok... now this bit'. If you focus on practicing going from one part straight into the next, confidently, that'll change the whole feel. Just in case, there are some pauses in there that are intentional. Although a lot of them aren't, especially in the last third. But the pause before the "lead", I think it's appropriate. No? baka kaba posted:The transitions into the different parts are... they don't feel unconfident here, it's more that there are big changes happening but they're kinda sprung on the listener, so that feels jarring. Maybe work on leading into them, like with the one around 0:30 where it's slow and then fast, maybe really drag out the slow part and then jump into the fast bit, or start the fast part slowly and speed up, something like that. It would help with the key changes too, some of the parts feel kinda disconnected You know, I've just listened to the original... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlpsyMpL8ZY I can't say that I lied very much in my arrangement... Maybe, you know, the 0:30 transition is smoother there. I think I've been skipping some background notes mentally that connect the two rhythms. And also my basses are in the background whereas in the original they very much make up the main course. What do you think? I think just hitting the notes has been enough challenge for me that I haven't considered how exactly I hit them. But it's theoretically possible to apply much more pressure to the basses, I take it? Finally, I suspect there's the innate problem with arrangements - that when I'm playing I hear the original, with its full spectrum, whereas what actually sounds may be much more vague, and appeals only to other fans of the original. Anyway, I've been crafting this post for almost 2 hours now. I have some other thoughts, but I've got to run. Please come back for more! Oh, P.S. Your critique felt actually very gentle to me. Although I glanced at the end first, and perhaps went in with inflated expectations for harshness.
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Apr 2, 2015 15:06
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No probs! I don't really know what I'm talking about with most of this, just so you know! Let's see how much I can post here - first up Audacity is ok for what it is, and you can use VST plugins with it (I used to use this Kjaerhus Classic Compressor), but yeah it can definitely get to be a chore. I'm not really sure about Linux options though - I was going to recommend Reaper which is fantastic, but they only have Windows and OS X versions unfortunately. Maybe the recording megathread will have some suggestions? Getting an actual DAW and learning the basics will save you so much time and frustration supermikhail posted:
It was more a suggestion that if (if) you wanted your vocals to be stronger, just work on doing lots of takes, really work up to each one so you can give a strong performance, and throw out the ones that didn't go so well. This is another place a DAW helps - you can do looping record which goes over the same part and records multiple takes, so you can just sing over and over and then decide later which one you want to use. The stereo thing isn't necessarily about creating a soundstage, although it can be. In reality the voices in the 'choir' will be coming from slightly different places, and a subtle panning will make it sound bigger and more spacious - and this is a 'less is more' thing, hard panning is more for effect or pretending it's an old Beatles recording. But the main reason I suggested it, is that panning instruments gives them their own space in the mix, so they're less likely to step on each other and require EQing. But yeah, you can have the guitar off to the side if you like, whatever's good - just so long as they're not all in the same place, y'know? supermikhail posted:Oh, no, I am solely to blame for this arrangement, so obviously you're barely meant to play it as anything. I've been getting more into a kind of recording mood with time, and right now I feel that maybe it's unnecessary to do this song all in a single take. That is, I really could do drumming and picking separately. And maybe add something extra in a few additional passes (as you have perhaps suggested previously). Although this particular recording was done solely with the intent that "these are the notes, and that is the rhythm, make of it what you will". Honestly I think it would be better to make this 'that percussive solo song', and the sparse arrangement really lends it to that, because it's not overcomplicated, you know? That's why I thought it was written that way in the first place (I thought I remembered you saying you found it online?) You just need to make sure the beat is still 'felt' - how you do that is up to you, with playing dynamics or actual drumming, but when I listened to it I got a bit lost. Partly because different beats disappear at different times, so when you hear one it's hard to place it. I'm not going to say 'yo copy Justin or Kaki King' or anything, but there are tricks you can do. Youtube reminded me of this which is a good example! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHJYiuZkRXw Yeah none of us are pulling that off anytime soon, but you can see some of the techniques in there - hitting the strings for a constant pulse while playing, harder strums on beats, stressing the notes that fall on beats, etc. Make the beat your priority, and see how you go from there. In my opinion! supermikhail posted:I just want to mention that I specifically didn't cut out the pauses because this thread is not supposed to provide a polished listening experience. Well I'm not saying cut out the pauses, more that they make the arrangement sound weaker. It's hard to pretend they're not there and imagine it if it was played with a solid rhythm and drive, you know? And as for the rubato thing... I was actually going to say 'maybe you're already doing that', so it's not that I thought you weren't! But it takes skill to make that sound intentional and musical, it's playing with the rhythm, not ignoring it. I'm not saying that's what you're doing, but some of the pauses are... I'm going to say they're obviously where you need to stop for a moment, if that's not true then it comes across that way, to me anyway. And that feel bleeds over into your rubato playing, so the whole thing sounds a bit messy instead of intentionally ebbing and flowing If you don't like the arrangement then cool, but I still think it might be worth learning to play it properly first, getting comfortable with it when it's played well, enjoying the energy and sound it has, and then decide. You might develop it more! supermikhail posted:Just in case, there are some pauses in there that are intentional. Although a lot of them aren't, especially in the last third. But the pause before the "lead", I think it's appropriate. No? I guess it's a matter of taste, the time signature already sounds complicated, and then there's pauses that sound just short enough to be unintentional, like a hesitation? Maybe I'm just not hearing the beat properly, it's definitely possible! supermikhail posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlpsyMpL8ZY I can't say that I lied very much in my arrangement... Maybe, you know, the 0:30 transition is smoother there. I think I've been skipping some background notes mentally that connect the two rhythms. And also my basses are in the background whereas in the original they very much make up the main course. What do you think? I think just hitting the notes has been enough challenge for me that I haven't considered how exactly I hit them. But it's theoretically possible to apply much more pressure to the basses, I take it? Ok so the Doctor Who one, comparing to the original I can follow it a lot better. The 0:30 transition isn't that bad, I was just being lazy and using that as an example - it's the later ones that are the problem, the 1:20 one and then the ascending line into that dissonant part near the end. The pauses are the problem, they make it completely disjointed and throw you off, like falling over in the middle of a dance. The original is obviously full orchestrated, and they can do things like leaving instruments hanging while another group weave in a new motif or introduce a new section. Obviously you're much more limited with a single guitar, so you have to keep it all connected. You could partly do that by making sure you have multiple strings sounding at once (like with the 0:30 part, keeping the high bit going while you play the descending bass, like in the original), but you'll probably get the biggest benefit from keeping the beat going. The original flows confidently from part to part, like someone speaking fluently. Yours halts, and in some places it makes the next part seem unconnected (like with the dissonant bit). Part of the arrangement is about those contrasts and making them fit together, so you have to make sure your arrangement manages to maintain that. Strip it down to the core melody and harmony and rhythm and make sure those stay strong Making sure it flows together at those points will do wonders for the whole thing - I'm not saying it'll necessarily be great (I don't know a lot about arrangement and you've set yourself a major task here) but it'll at least be solid and coherent, and give the listener a solid structure to comprehend and appreciate the rest of it. Do you practice with a metronome? If not you should! You probably don't want to record to a click, since it might feel a little too rigid, but practicing your performances with one will help your timing, and more importantly it'll force you to get good at the changes! You need to be in control throughout the whole thing, and if any parts trip you up you need to get a handle on them. This is one of the big things about recording - you need solid technical skills, even if you're playing 3-chord punk, unless messiness is part of your vibe And your bass notes are something where proper mic placement and compression etc will help you a lot - I can hear you plucking them pretty hard, with that 'thwack' of the string. Ideally you wouldn't need to do that since it changes the whole sound. This is probably more for the recording thread though, or maybe a youtube video on recording acoustic guitar! Uh oh big text again
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Apr 3, 2015 16:50
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At the risk of overextending our attention spans -- especially mine since I still have to implement all your excellent advice -- just a few things. I have a Windows installation in a symbiotic relationship with my Linux, and I've just downloaded the trial of REAPER, although I still have to actually try it, as it were, because it's about time I turned in for the night. Well, whatever the result of this trial, looking at the price tags (I've only ever paid this much money for Windows... discounting inflation and exchange rates to rubles in your currency) made me realize that my problems fall into two categories, one of which requires exclusively time and effort on my part, and my crude software tools will be enough for that... As a side note, there is a DAW for Linux, and I managed to make it work once to use with midi files, although I could make neither head nor tail of the interface when I opened it recently. I kind of already anticipate a similar problem with REAPER, from getting a glimpse at its many components during the installation. Of course, it has the benefit of not being produced by volunteers, so we'll see. Finally, at the risk of overstraining your generosity, could you look at the final three songs in the OP? Or maybe only the last one (which I added in an edit). Laura Lyons should be solid besides the usual timing and recording issues, and Time Only Knows... well, I don't promise that the vocals are not disgusting, and the roles of the instruments and voice are almost completely reversed from the original, so I'm not sure it makes a single coherent composition anymore (probably has to do with my disagreements with using Audacity's plugins more than anything)... So, I guess feedback still wanted. On the other hand, I still have a bunch of stuff to record, and then to rerecord. Well, whatever you decide, I'm almost absolutely positive the thread won't get archived before I post the next recording, so your feedback won't just get lost.
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Apr 3, 2015 20:12
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Isn't Studio One Free pretty good for a free daw
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Apr 3, 2015 20:44
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Reaper is awesome, and yeah it takes a little while to learn, but the basic layout is very similar to Audacity - bunch of tracks, track controls at the side, waveform in the main window, a mixer at the bottom. And unless they've changed something, the free trial doesn't expire, there's just a long nag screen, so you can take your time evaluating it if you're unsure you want to buy it. Once you get over the whole 'oh god what is all this' hump it'll make your life a whole lot easier. Admittedly I haven't touched Audacity in years, but clunky is how I'd describe using it for anything more than a rudimentary sound recorder thing I'll see if I can find some time to listen to the others this weekend, although I think you probably get where I'm coming from by now! Also I feel kinda guilty being the only person giving advice, since I'm so far from being an expert it's amazing Oh here's a guy who made a video jsut for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdO2YvzKLm0
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Apr 3, 2015 21:10
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drat. That "folders" functionality seems very nice from that tutorial. I'd like to share that Linux DAW (possibly). Some people consider it "awesome" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db6qViE1ODc As I've said, it was quite useful for midi when that was my only recording possibility. And I still remember those days with fondness. NTT posted:Isn't Studio One Free pretty good for a free daw I've looked at it, and it seems like the free version has very limited effects, among which it's missing compression and equalizer, which we've come here to consider the most important for my case, I guess. And the cheapest paid version is much more expensive than REAPER. At least that's the impression I've got after some browsing.
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Apr 4, 2015 10:32
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Uh, I've been messing about with Reaper. This is something I want to record further down the line, but I've never been able to get the effects in a good enough shape for the sound I usually have in mind - classic rock, Queen and the like. The best I seem to be able to achieve is super heavy metal, which seems to be the default setting everywhere anyway but which is not something I'm into. Does the recording sound palatable at all? Oh, I think there was a program which I managed to tame to a reasonable degree: Guitar FX BOX. Its recording capabilities are very limited though. Eh, maybe there's a megathread for my problems, but I'm too tired to figure out which one.
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Apr 7, 2015 17:28
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Uh. Time of the Titans from Walking with Dinosaurs (TV series). I think I've figured out reasonable distortion, working on panning, although I've probably overdone reverb. For some reason the volume jumps in places, and there's a hitch with playing where I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to be, but I converted the project from Audacity to Reaper which I'm going to blame. Also I don't know what the deal is but my ears almost hurt from listening to this project repeatedly, and my volume actually isn't loud. Any feedback? Anyone? 
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Apr 12, 2015 18:06
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Anezka: An Acoustic-Guitar Arrangement: A Song from Vampire: The Masquerade: Redemption: The Videogame.
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Apr 22, 2015 19:34
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Drangoborn from The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim. I screwed up the rhythm of the section that's important, but I think nobody cares, and in addition to that I've recently established in a scientific manner that I'm never going to be a great guitarist, so I'm not sure I myself care that much anymore. My main motivation now is to get this poo poo out of the door as quickly as possible - hopefully while I still have the REAPER trial. On the other hand, I think I'm getting better at singing - for a test of that skip to around 3:30 - and perhaps I'll switch to mostly that once I've overcome the remaining arrangements. Oh, also, I've recorded this whole song today, in the course of too many hours, and REAPER seems to monopolize sound (maybe it's only on my computer), so I couldn't relax with some videos, or check the original track (I decided not to play over it in REAPER, so it had to be an external program). But mostly it's about relaxing, which strangely makes me want to get done with a song as soon as possible, probably compromising quality. Anyway, however many songs down, one fewer to go.
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May 10, 2015 17:53
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Main theme from Deus Ex. Useless crap! I am, and this place is. It's so cold inside I can barely move my fingers, and I'm constantly hungry because I'm on a diet. In addition I recently realized that to record parts of this arrangement I would have actually had to practice 6 hours a day for the past 10 years, and that's never how I have intended to spend my life. Fortunately the parts in question could be simplified with little impact. I don't know how I'm going to record the next two songs, since they're essentially all like that. Slowed down and bit by bit, I guess.
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May 19, 2015 15:08
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Deionarra from Planescape: Torment (the videogame) Really hard, frustrating, and ultimately pointless. Certainly something to challenge ones's tremolo muscles, but if I were writing music (which I hopefully am going to be able to do), I wouldn't make all of a track a tremolo guitar, especially most of it barre, for the player's sake at least, although the listener probably wouldn't appreciate it either. 
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May 21, 2015 13:54
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supermikhail posted:Deionarra from Planescape: Torment (the videogame) Can you say new ringtone?? 
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Jun 22, 2015 11:36
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What?
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Jun 22, 2015 13:20
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I think he likes your music so much he is going to use it as his ringtone
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Jun 22, 2015 13:33
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I was wondering if it's a new language, or a borked transcription ("Can you-s ay new ringtone?"). If that's what they mean, sure, although it's technically not my music, so I'm not sure I should legally get a say in the matter. But I feel nice being asked.
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Jun 22, 2015 14:04
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