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Rudager posted:I never quite understood this theory (well I get how it works and all that) and why it didn't cause problems like in the OP because of one partner possibly subsidising the other. You don't necessarily have a lower percentage of costs just because you earn less, it just seems a bit backwards.
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Apr 29, 2015 14:15
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Rudager posted:I never quite understood this theory (well I get how it works and all that) and why it didn't cause problems like in the OP because of one partner possibly subsidising the other. You don't necessarily have a lower percentage of costs just because you earn less, it just seems a bit backwards. The only scenario I could think that would work where expenses are split 50/50 and without the lower earner being financially crippled would be if they agreed to live at the lower-earners level and only rent, furnish and feed themselves based upon what the lower earner can afford. The way it's worked out for me is that my partner just wants me to pay the difference in utilities and food. Over time I've paid more as I've gotten better jobs etc, but it's still not that much. His logic is that he'd live here anyway, so he didn't want to financially penalise me because he has nicer tastes than I do.
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Apr 29, 2015 16:28
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My soon-to-be wife and I handle it that way. We figured out our percentages of total household income (I earn 55%, she earns 45% or whatever of the total) and we split our mortgage/utilities/fixed costs that way. Stuff like car insurance we handled individually, since she has one car to my 2 cars/1 motorcycle, and we mostly handle groceries and such on an as-needed basis. I end up paying a bigger percentage of the house costs, but that's fine because I earn more of the income. Its worked well for us, and we re-evaluate every year or whenever the income situation changes. I wouldn't want to go 100% shared income, but this feels like the fairest way to handle it for both of us.
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Apr 29, 2015 19:31
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Hocus Pocus posted:Those of you who feel strongly about joint finances (regardless of if there's income inequality), have you always felt this way? Or was it something that came with time/age? Or when you met your current partner? I'm in a marriage where we have joint finances, regardless of what each of us are making at the time. Except we each get $100/month to spend on whatever with no accountability, which we both mostly use on beer, grabbing food when out with friends, and getting each other gifts. It's funny because I was super opposed to joint finances in a relationship my entire life. I felt like my money was mine, and I couldn't handle the idea of someone else spending it. Up until I was about 25, and realized I wanted to marry my then-boyfriend, now-husband. Then I just kind of had a duh moment... of course our money should be together. We're a team. You don't punish or deny your teammate if he has an injury and has to sit on the bench for a while, you help him rehab that poo poo until he's back up to contributing to his full abilities. It helps that my husband is very hands-off with finance stuff, and loves that I want to micromanage our money and goon it up with YNAB and calculators and IRAs and crap, so that he doesn't have to think about it. We're a good match in that way, which is part of the reason we trusted each other enough to get married in the first place. Now he's about to quit his job totally so he can do full time education, which seems very likely to lead to a job where he makes 2-3x what he makes now. If we didn't share finances he couldn't afford to do this, thus limiting his lifetime earning potential, thus limiting our total income as a couple. And yeah, he'll still get his $100/month of discretionary money so long as we can afford that, because I'm not a loving miser and I value his happiness. Married couples who do separate finances make no sense to me. Why the hell would you legally marry somebody if you don't trust them absolutely? Because even if you nominally keep your assets separate, they can still gently caress you over if they decide they want to! Basically it seem like you're going to the trouble to split stuff so that you can have a false sense of security. I mean I might think differently if I had had substantial assets before getting married, I don't know, but it's hard for me to see it from that perspective.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:21
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Cicero posted:Are you a libertarian? The idea here would be not to base the split on direct costs incurred, but rather on capacity to pay. Not entirely unlike progressive income taxes. I get how it works and the theory behind it, but I don't understand how it avoids the feelings of resentment in either direction because one is subsidising the other, pretty much exactly like in the OP's case.
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Apr 29, 2015 21:23
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Rudager posted:I get how it works and the theory behind it, but I don't understand how it avoids the feelings of resentment in either direction because one is subsidising the other, pretty much exactly like in the OP's case. It works because you're partners, not roommates. The amount of sharing of money, and when you start doing it, varies from couple to couple. But at the end of the day you're a team, not two individuals who happen to live together.
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Apr 29, 2015 22:01
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Thoguh posted:It works because you're partners, not roommates. The amount of sharing of money, and when you start doing it, varies from couple to couple. But at the end of the day you're a team, not two individuals who happen to live together. I guess my point basically boils down to that no matter what solution you pick, if the relationship isn't healthy to start with (especially in regards to money, like it sounds like in the OP), changing how money is spent in the household isn't going to change that. Myself, I don't really see the difference between the "put in equal percentages towards costs" and pooling everything together, I mean if I make 60% and she makes 40% of the total income it seems moot whether we pool it all together and pay everything out of that joint account where I contribute 60% and she contributes 40% or if we divide expenses up 60/40. Like I mentioned before in this thread, we just have 1 joint everyday spending account, 1 joint savings account and 1 joint home loan, there's no calculating required, no confusion about who owes what for what, or "I paid for this last time, so now it's your turn", if something needs to be bought/paid for one of us does it.
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Apr 29, 2015 22:21
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T. J. Eckleburg posted:Married couples who do separate finances make no sense to me. Why the hell would you legally marry somebody if you don't trust them absolutely? Because even if you nominally keep your assets separate, they can still gently caress you over if they decide they want to! Basically it seem like you're going to the trouble to split stuff so that you can have a false sense of security. I mean I might think differently if I had had substantial assets before getting married, I don't know, but it's hard for me to see it from that perspective. Rudager posted:Like I mentioned before in this thread, we just have 1 joint everyday spending account, 1 joint savings account and 1 joint home loan, there's no calculating required, no confusion about who owes what for what, or "I paid for this last time, so now it's your turn", if something needs to be bought/paid for one of us does it. Relationships work because people craft them around each other. What works for one couple isn't going to be ideal for another. There is no right or wrong way to do things when it comes to relationships. cowofwar fucked around with this message at 02:36 on May 6, 2015 |
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May 6, 2015 02:30
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Rudager posted:I guess my point basically boils down to that no matter what solution you pick, if the relationship isn't healthy to start with (especially in regards to money, like it sounds like in the OP), changing how money is spent in the household isn't going to change that. We also pool everything together, and it psychologically removes the relative income difference such that it never comes up unless we're in financial planning mode and forecasting. We don't care that there's an income disparity, and actively plan for future potential disparity in the case of maternity leaves, or one parent staying at home to raise kids or whatever. There's value in never having to think things like "I'm paying for 60% now, but next year I will be paying 100%", because it just never enters into our mindset that it matters. You're absolutely tight that if your financial goals are not aligned (or if you have no financial goals), you're hosed no matter what you try. And if your financial goals are in sync, the method of money management doesn't matter as long as it achieves those goals. If your contribution to household income has somehow become the marker for your worth within the relationship, you're also hosed.
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May 6, 2015 03:31
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cowofwar posted:This seems to keep coming up but it's a false dichotomy. Just because you have split finances doesn't mean you don't trust your partner. But why then? Like I posted about my grandparents earlier splitting finances, and that makes sense. My grandfather wanted to save money and my grandmother didn't have the self control. That's a trust thing. But why split finances if ultimately everything is shared anyway? It just seems like it would over complicate things. I'm genuinely curious.
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May 6, 2015 03:44
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Knyteguy posted:But why then? Like I posted about my grandparents earlier splitting finances, and that makes sense. My grandfather wanted to save money and my grandmother didn't have the self control. That's a trust thing. But why split finances if ultimately everything is shared anyway? It just seems like it would over complicate things. I'm genuinely curious. My experience has been couples that do this always have disagreements (maybe small) about how to spend money on a regular basis. By having each person separate money, it effectively avoids having all of those conversations where one person is on the other about how they are spending money. Just witnessed this the other day with a friend where his wife had a brand new iphone 6+ and apparently has already ordered an apple watch. He made it clear he thought it was a waste and made a comment about how it was 'up to her how she spends her money'. This seems insane as all this is doing is papering over the larger issue - ultimately be a large imbalance if you have one person spending and one person saving. What happens he is ready to retire at 55 and she need to work until 70?
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May 6, 2015 05:03
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app posted:My experience has been couples that do this always have disagreements (maybe small) about how to spend money on a regular basis. By having each person separate money, it effectively avoids having all of those conversations where one person is on the other about how they are spending money. Just witnessed this the other day with a friend where his wife had a brand new iphone 6+ and apparently has already ordered an apple watch. He made it clear he thought it was a waste and made a comment about how it was 'up to her how she spends her money'. This seems insane as all this is doing is papering over the larger issue - ultimately be a large imbalance if you have one person spending and one person saving. What happens he is ready to retire at 55 and she need to work until 70?
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May 6, 2015 05:13
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Rudager posted:I get how it works and the theory behind it, but I don't understand how it avoids the feelings of resentment in either direction because one is subsidising the other, pretty much exactly like in the OP's case. I think it's easiest to spell it out with math: [yearly] Total household income: $55,000 Partner A's income: $35,000 Partner B's income: $20,000 Total expenses: $35,000 Cost burden by each partner: $17,500 Partner A's discretionary income: $17,500 Partner B's discretionary income: $2,500 Splitting bills evenly while there is an income disparity creates social situations where this leads to resentment and can get super-weird when out with friends, etc.
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May 6, 2015 05:37
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Knyteguy posted:But why then? Like I posted about my grandparents earlier splitting finances, and that makes sense. My grandfather wanted to save money and my grandmother didn't have the self control. That's a trust thing. But why split finances if ultimately everything is shared anyway? It just seems like it would over complicate things. I'm genuinely curious. We have "split" finances out of pure laziness. We have our own checking account numbers memorized. We don't keep track of which bills come out of whose money or who spends more. Frankly, the only thing that's stopped either of us from spending us both into the poorhouse for the past 8 years is a desire to keep the other person happy and provided for. This thread has just made me really thankful that neither of us has a gambling addiction or serious control issues or anything. Jesus Christ. Is this what normal relationships are like? If a $7,000 diamond would make my spouse really happy, I'd be totally on board, and vice versa. Our individual hobby expenses even come out of shared discretionary, and it makes us happy to see each other happy.
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May 6, 2015 06:03
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Aliquid posted:I think it's easiest to spell it out with math: Does splitting proportionally really solve any of those issues though? The proportional split is below, but I would think a $5k difference would still potentially lead to resentment. The thing that I get from this thread is that it doesn't matter how you determine your finances as long as both partners are communicating and happy with the method. Total expenses: $35,000 Cost burden A: $22,272 Cost burden B: $12,727 Partner A's discretionary income: $12,727 Partner B's discretionary income: $ 7,272
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May 6, 2015 11:06
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My husband and I use a combination of separate and joint finances. We each have a separate personal bank account for discretionary spending but we also have a joint account for house stuff like bills and furniture and whatever. We didn't really see a point in pooling ALL of our money, especially since we make near dead-on even salaries and we live pretty cheaply. If there's ever a point where one of us isn't working or makes much less money than we do now then we'll probably reconsider our finances but it works for now. We don't have any of that roommate-esque "I bought the groceries last week! Now it's your turn!" poo poo, whoever happens to do the shopping that week pays for the food.
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May 7, 2015 00:02
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We have a joint account and I have a secret account to squirrel away savings because she constantly buys poo poo and we'd constantly be fighting over money and frantically trying to come up with enough to pay bills if I didn't syphon off money to artificially make us look too poor to buy poo poo and then re-inject it when it's time to pay bills. She's not very responsible with money buy she's got other good qualities so this works for us.
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May 8, 2015 07:16
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My husband makes 140% more than I do, but we just pool it all together in one account and take an equal stipend each pay to cover incidental poo poo - everything else goes on bills, savings and the mortgage. The only time there was ever any difficulty over finances was before we were married and I was studying full time and working about 15 hours a week vs his full time work, and we were operating under a strictly 50/50 split for all bills and expenses As Aliquid said, this created a huge discretionary income disparity and I was left with something like $20/week to his $500+. It meant I never had any money to do anything and felt stressed when he wanted to go out for dinner or go shopping, and he ended up having to pay my way because I literally couldn't afford to go anywhere with him. I finally had a talk to him about it and we ended up splitting things proportionally, which meant I had a much more manageable $120/week and he still had buckets of cash for whatever. We didn't combine our finances until we got married.
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May 8, 2015 09:50
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Y'all seem to feel really strongly about this one way or the other. I've been married for about a year, and we don't have any joint accounts yet mainly because we haven't bothered. We worked out a budget, found our bills are $Y per month, and she transfers me $Y/2 per month (we're at similar incomes right now - when she starts mat leave, she won't transfer me anything) and I pay all the bills. I think we'll get to joint + individual accounts pretty soon, once we're in the city we want to settle in. For couples with only a joint account - even if you 100% trust your partner, aren't you worried about stuff outside your/their control? What if one of you gets hit with a lawsuit and the account is frozen, or a card + PIN is stolen and the account drained, or the bank screws up or shuts down. I'd want a separate account for those reasons alone.
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May 12, 2015 20:41
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My wife and I pool our finances. The whole idea of splitting the bills with your spouse just feels incredibly weird to me. We're both responsible for all the bills and we're both responsible for achieving our future savings goals. If either of us needs to buy something we discuss it since it's "our" money being spent on it. My parents have always had all their money in joint accounts and my mom earns over an order of magnitude more than my dad. They seem to be doing well after over 30 years of marriage.
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May 12, 2015 22:43
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Trapick posted:For couples with only a joint account - even if you 100% trust your partner, aren't you worried about stuff outside your/their control? What if one of you gets hit with a lawsuit and the account is frozen, or a card + PIN is stolen and the account drained, or the bank screws up or shuts down. I'd want a separate account for those reasons alone. Did you have two accounts when you were single to cover these possibilities?
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May 12, 2015 23:09
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Rudager posted:Did you have two accounts when you were single to cover these possibilities? Absolutely, I have accounts at two credit unions and a bank, and keep some emergency funds in all of them. I guess having a couple joint accounts at different institutions would work fine; we'll probably get there soon. Now I'm getting worried - am I being too paranoid about doing things that way? I'm in Canada, which has a well regulated and very safe financial industry. It seems like people have success with all kinds of arrangements, as long as they work for both people in the relationship.
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May 12, 2015 23:26
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We added up exactly how much my wife's expenses were over what I would pay normally in a year, divided by 26, and she transfers that much every paycheck to our joint account. I have the remainder of our monthly expenses deposited into our account, and the remainder of each of our paychecks is for us to do what we want. The expenses that we used to calculate this was: gasoline, student loans, car payment, 1/3 of groceries, 1/3 of each utility, 1/3 of the cell phone bill + her next plan, her car insurance, and her share of the health insurance. She's not responsible for any of the mortgage or household incidentals. I make a little more than double what she makes, and put a little more than double what she does into the joint account. It works fairly well I guess.
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May 13, 2015 01:15
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My wife doesn't work and stays home with the kids. I just go ahead and pay for everything as long as she asks before buying anything large. She's the main buttwiper and household administrator, so for anything she wants to spend within reason, I'm happy to oblige. We have a budget meeting every two weeks, but after 5 years of this there's not always a lot to talk about. hth
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May 15, 2015 21:30
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I put all my money in a joint bank account with my wife and we just use it normally (obviously not excessively, but you know) without keeping track of who's contributing what percentage. If you're not comfortable doing that, IMO, you shouldn't be getting married. It'd be pretty unseemly, IMO, for me to be spending money and then telling my wife she couldn't spend the same because she hadn't pitched in as much. My wife didn't have a job when she came to the US to get married to me and now she does but I make around twice as much.
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May 19, 2015 02:23
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Talk to each other and establish common ground. Lots of systems can work, but it may take a few iterations to get there. Differences in how to manage our financials used to be the number one source of quibbles between myself and my so. We have tried both the «shared nothing» and «shared everything» approaches, but they weren't for us. Now our income goes to our separate bank accounts and we both transfer an (equal) agreed upon sum every month to a shared account to cover living expenses, mortgage down-payment and shared savings. This works really well, we both contribute equally to the household and each have money left over to manage how we want. Not having to justify doing (from the other's point of view) stupid things with our money has made it much easier (ANOTHER pair of shoes??, you invested in which stocks???, etc). That we both have comfortable incomes and earn approximately the same helps I guess.
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May 22, 2015 19:55
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Sioux posted:I wouldn't say she is trying to take advantage of me. This question probably came around because she feels completely dependent on me, but that is unfortunately the case even if I do give her an allowance. It must feel very lovely for her to be dependant like this. Have her tutor a high school kid or two in Spanish if she wants some pocket money, or wants her own little emergency fund for if you guys split up. Even without a degree that has to be possible. Talking about giving your significant other an "allowance" is weird to me, but hey, whatever works for you guys. Talk openly and be honest about what you both want and how you feel. edit: My wife and I have very different savings/retirement goals, and we keep all our money separate. I talked about it a bit in the FI/RE thread. Again, it's all about communication, and making sure no one feels taken advantage of. Maybe giving your wife a little pocket money to do whatever she wants with every month is what works for you. Inverse Icarus fucked around with this message at 23:02 on May 22, 2015 |
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May 22, 2015 22:56
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Inverse Icarus posted:Talking about giving your significant other an "allowance" is weird to me, but hey, whatever works for you guys. Talk openly and be honest about what you both want and how you feel. My mom controls my parents' finances and gives my dad an allowance of spending money even though they've been married for 35+ years and he makes twice what she does. He's just bad with money. She doesn't let him know how much they have saved up for retirement since he'll just see it as money they can spend and he got legitimately angry that an inheritance they received was in an annuity and wasn't in one lump sum he could blow through. They've had their finances worked out that way for as long as I can remember and to my knowledge have never had any major arguments about money management. Every couple is different and what works for one couple won't work for another. As long as you're on the same page and neither party feels resentful towards the other split up your money however works best for you.
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May 22, 2015 23:27
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We tried the proportional splitting of bills thing for a while but that sucked for me as she makes roughly twice as much and thus had way more disposable income after the bills were paid. It ended up with me resenting her for being able to go out and eat/drink/shop whenever she wanted, and her resenting me for having to pay for both of us when she wanted to bring me along to expensive places. Eventually we just pooled our incomes and transfer a equal amount of "fun money" to our separate accounts every month and haven't argued about money since.
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May 26, 2015 09:15
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Aquatic Giraffe posted:My mom controls my parents' finances and gives my dad an allowance of spending money even though they've been married for 35+ years and he makes twice what she does. He's just bad with money. She doesn't let him know how much they have saved up for retirement since he'll just see it as money they can spend and he got legitimately angry that an inheritance they received was in an annuity and wasn't in one lump sum he could blow through. They've had their finances worked out that way for as long as I can remember and to my knowledge have never had any major arguments about money management. This is also known as the Asian system.
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May 27, 2015 02:00
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I make roughly 4 times what my wife makes, but we've fought far less since we joined bank accounts. As the earner you'd think I'd be the resentful one but it was almost the opposite. I played hard and fast with my money and racked up debt while she was content to watch Netflix and eat potatoes. Merging bank accounts has made me feel more responsible that I am spending our money and regardless of income levels she gets a say in our future and stability. It's actually worked well personality wise also. Me being the spender/breadwinner means we can maintain a pretty stable and fun life style. Her being the saver/lower earner means that what she makes can be effectively routed toward debt and savings over the top. The biggest factor in my mind is that I trust her efforts and she does mine. The dollar amount we both make individually isn't important to us. What is important is that we are working together and we are both pouring our best efforts into our careers and our life together. I make sure we have a good time, she makes sure we can retire. It's cool stuff when your SO can be a welcome voice of reason and you realize your joint goals are different, and that's okay.
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May 27, 2015 08:30
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The split finances thing has never made intuitive sense to me. There's only one household, there's only one set of household goals, and it doesn't make sense to duplicate all budgetary, tracking and analysis functions if everything is pulling in one direction. Again, to me. This isn't segment reporting. My wife and I have both been on the "earns more" side of the table and my conclusion was that money is exactly one kind of contribution to the family, out of many. Who cares if one person has a higher number as long as everyone is making good-faith efforts to advance the family? If all else is done correctly I don't think the bookkeeping method matters a hell of a lot. The point where I just don't get splitting everything is looking at my paycheck as mine. I earned it, with support from The Family, to in turn support The Family right back.
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May 27, 2015 12:51
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My husband and I have been together for 10 years. He makes about 3x more than I do. He takes the big stuff like the mortgage and car payment. I buy groceries, keep the house clean, etc. We are both maxing out 401ks and most of my extra money goes to student loans (3 years to go!) so he buys me luxuries when I ask, which isn't frequently. We've talked about plans if we have kids. We already put everything on a card for points so all those expenses would go on the card too and he'd take care of it. Neither of us feels any resentments because we both acknowledge that we both work very hard, he just got really lucky at being a super star in a very lucrative business and mine is a little less lucrative. Every few years he asks me if I feel ok, that it's really ok if I spend more of our money, etc. We've decided together than we want to retire in about 15 years and so we've got a solid joint goal in mind to work towards. silicone thrills fucked around with this message at 03:59 on May 28, 2015 |
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May 28, 2015 03:55
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Tigntink posted:My husband and I have been together for 10 years. He makes about 3x more than I do. He takes the big stuff like the mortgage and car payment. I buy groceries, keep the house clean, etc. We are both maxing out 401ks and most of my extra money goes to student loans (3 years to go!) so he buys me luxuries when I ask, which isn't frequently. We've talked about plans if we have kids. We already put everything on a card for points so all those expenses would go on the card too and he'd take care of it. Neither of us feels any resentments because we both acknowledge that we both work very hard, he just got really lucky at being a super star in a very lucrative business and mine is a little less lucrative. This is exactly where I am with my wife. If you have a unified plan and neither of you have any wacky problem spending behaviors income inequality is no biggie. Combined we make 3x the household average for our county, so ymmv.
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May 28, 2015 10:03
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My wife and I have 100% joint accounts, and I have a hard time understanding WHY anyone would want to do otherwise. That said, lol to all the butt hurt in this thread. Different people make different things work, so whatever. More power to you. Now, for an actual contribution, how do you other "joint" account owners arrange big ticket spending? A house is easy, you both reap the benefits---but if one wants a motorcycle and the other wants a diamond ring, how do you meet a consensus? My wife and I have an interesting methodology, I think, in that we swap big expenses without really keeping a running total of expenditures. Last year, I got $3k to buy a motorcycle and I can sell, buy, trade whatever I want as long as I don't peg more than that without asking/reasoning withy her why it'd be nice to spend a bit more. [Case-selling $3k motorcycle for $6k jetski for the two of us to both enjoy----and she'll keep her Vespa] This year, she gets to bounce around the country for weddings/bachelorette parties. This works really well, especially considering that we don't really tally who spent how much on their own personal fun. Granted, we both only get to blow money on this stuff after we meet 401k match, max Roth IRAs, and maintain a 5k float in the bank accounts after all the bills/cards are paid in full, so that helps. It also helps that we both honestly include the other one in almost everything we do [I bought my motorcycle after selling my scooter that I bought in a pair; so she'd have one, I'd be traveling with her this year if it wasn't for hem being bachelorette parties].
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Jun 12, 2015 06:48
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Kennebago posted:The split finances thing has never made intuitive sense to me. There's only one household, there's only one set of household goals, and it doesn't make sense to duplicate all budgetary, tracking and analysis functions if everything is pulling in one direction. Again, to me. This isn't segment reporting.
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Jun 12, 2015 13:40
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Dead Pressed posted:My wife and I have 100% joint accounts, and I have a hard time understanding WHY anyone would want to do otherwise. That said, lol to all the butt hurt in this thread. Different people make different things work, so whatever. More power to you. I don't see any reason to create unnecessary problems when we have none. Why change something that works, you know? We never bickered about money before we got married, why start now?
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Jun 12, 2015 17:32
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Dead Pressed posted:Now, for an actual contribution, how do you other "joint" account owners arrange big ticket spending? A house is easy, you both reap the benefits---but if one wants a motorcycle and the other wants a diamond ring, how do you meet a consensus? My wife and I have personal spending budgets of $175 a month (tracked using Mint and the leftover amount does roll over) that we can spend however we like no questions asked. I'm not quite sure how big ticket purchases will work yet, because I do want to buy a scooter soon but it would take close to 18 months to save that kind of money using just my personal allowance budget. She balked at the idea of pulling out $2500 from the account to spend on my scooter so I think I'm going to have to either just wait or keep talking it over with her. We are in the process of buying a new house soon and I'm sure she'll be more approachable on the scooter issue once we sell our current home and close on the new one. As far as my wife, her idea of a big purchase is dropping $20 at a garage sale so there will never be any issues on her end. Her hobbies don't cost anywhere near what mine do. I always joke that her spending budget shouldn't be as high as mine since her hobbies don't cost as much but I learned really quick that was not an argument I was going to win. Our last "big" purchase was a new TV that I wanted. That was a little different because even though I initiated the idea she supported it and then we decided on a budget together ($500) and I went out and bought it. The Shep fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Jun 12, 2015 |
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Jun 12, 2015 20:49
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