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calusari posted:New media just means
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Dec 16, 2015 20:22
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DudeGoofyGuy posted:When writing was invented the Greeks were very mad and thought that it meant people would get a lot dumber because they wouldn't have to memorize epic poems anymore. Every new technology is a herald of the end times with substantial evidence that things are worse than they are before. The problem is that the evidence is based on logic that starts with the faulty assumption that the way things were before was better. Why was memorizing poems better? Because older people knew how to do it, and now that skill lacks value? Why was a pre-social media world better? Because people's popularity and likability was measured by social cues rather than numbers? What makes that inherently better? I say this as somebody who is inclined to believe that socialization is better than social media, but looking at it objectively, I can't say I have any reason to prove that the change is good or bad. It's just different. For the human mind things were overwhelmingly better back then. The ancient Navajo could classify over 700 insects to three levels with ID, habitat, behavior etc, and that's just insects. They did not need to write anything down, and they didn't remember it for social reasons because everyone was expected to pick it up, because the human brain is selected to remember geographical and visual images, like it was selected for sociability and intimacy. Incredible feats of memory were commonplace in pre-literate societies which are unheard of today. Even in colonial America, presidential speeches lasting 6 hours were common, with every point memorized back and forth and rebutted point by point. The shortening of the attention span, health effects of our sedentary lifestyle, increasing social atomization, and the abject dependence on technology are not "different" from the above but qualitatively inferior, because the brain was not selected for these things, which is why mental illness is more rife in the societies more dependent on technology for their human needs.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:12
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Beef Turret posted:The shortening of the attention span, health effects of our sedentary lifestyle, increasing social atomization, and the abject dependence on technology are not "different" from the above but qualitatively inferior, because the brain was not selected for these things, which is why mental illness is more rife in the societies more dependent on technology for their human needs. While I don't disagree, by the same logic you could say that shoes weaken your feet to the point that we cannot walk the earth. The big difference with new technology is the speed at which it adapts. Even as it causes new problems, it provides solutions for problems caused by the previous generation of technology, and it's only going to get faster. The mental health issues you're talking about will be addressed in future revisions. With AR and VR just around the corner, everything is about to change again, kids of tomorrow will be able to "google" something they see just by looking at it in a certain way, memory will be redundant.
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Dec 16, 2015 22:00
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monkey posted:memory will be redundant. Not all of us agree this is a good thing.
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Dec 16, 2015 22:02
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thathonkey posted:Ive been homeless ever since i found out i was cis scum. And you know what? I fuckin deserve it. Kill all cis scum imho Yes, exactly.
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Dec 16, 2015 22:09
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monkey posted:The big difference with new technology is the speed at which it adapts. Even as it causes new problems, it provides solutions for problems caused by the previous generation of technology, and it's only going to get faster. The mental health issues you're talking about will be addressed in future revisions. With AR and VR just around the corner, everything is about to change again, kids of tomorrow will be able to "google" something they see just by looking at it in a certain way, memory will be redundant. Technology cannot solve any fundamental social problems because its only virtue is in amplifying power in terms of convenience, and convenience fixes a problem only by delegating it somewhere else, away from notice. It is just a way to suspend consequences like Laplace's demon. The only way to solve the mental illness problem other than modifying our environment, is to pharmacologically or genetically alter people so they accept degrading conditions, much like how farm animals "accept" sterile and ecologically dead environments. In general terms, a law in nature is that something must suffer or be abased for convenience to exist, even if it's a slave-AI in a cyber utopia or the myriads living in squalor. Accelerated convenience means the accelerated degradation of the ecosystems of Earth, and it means more suffering in a form made unrecognizable except to future generations. Another law of nature is that the more complex an organism or society, the more centralized and specialized the faculties related to its subsistence must be and the more fragile it is as a whole (fx. a person would die if exposed to conditions a simple tardigrade or mite could shrug off). This centralization exists only to slow down, not reverse, the inevitable fragility and vulnerability of a system. In a society too interlinked, too interrelated and dependent on technology, this translates to more susceptibility to collapse unless it becomes more and more centralized and organizational at the expense of ordinary people, because no singularity can abolish its dependence on the outside world. If synaptic memory is ever made obsolete, it will for the benefit of the organizations who provide us with the technology, for the same reason farmers gives horses shoes for the burdens he will give them later. The idea that one day technology will overturn these laws in spite of all historical evidence to the contrary, is a faith cobbled together with the leftovers of millenarian Christianity. It's like a Ponzi scheme where each subsequent generation passes along the growing bill, until it's time to collect and collapse. The bigger they are the harder they fall. Anyway thanks for reading 
Beef Turret fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 23:50
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Quit hogging the computer, Kaczynski
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Dec 17, 2015 00:04
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i hope Earth become like Solaria from some Asimov book i cant remember. the entire planet is run by robot slaves, except for a few goons who live alone in their basements and only interact with each other over skype
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Dec 17, 2015 00:39
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Beef Turret posted:Anyway thanks for reading You're welcome, and thanks for posting!
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Dec 17, 2015 00:46
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Beef Turret posted:Technology cannot solve any fundamental social problems because its only virtue is in amplifying power in terms of convenience, and convenience fixes a problem only by delegating it somewhere else, away from notice. It is just a way to suspend consequences like Laplace's demon. The only way to solve the mental illness problem other than modifying our environment, is to pharmacologically or genetically alter people so they accept degrading conditions, much like how farm animals "accept" sterile and ecologically dead environments. im glad you finally decidd to share your personal philosophy. i enjoyed reading it
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Dec 17, 2015 01:26
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The death of our current society will be sweet. Over-reliance on the rich and the powerful to represent the masses and guide our future has destroyed the very essence of a healthy society. The powers that be control the minds of the masses with little to no effort. Society cannot solve problems because it gave all of its power to the people who care the least about the people. In older days, weak and corrupt leaders would be killed and replaced. Whether it be by an angry mob, an assassin, or any other means, society would change. Whether or not this made things better or worse was not the point. The point was that something was forced to change. Too bad, guess we get to live to see the whole world turn into Arizona!
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Dec 17, 2015 01:44
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you always know beefturret is holding back until he decides to let a little go. there is a hope, beefturret, altho it will doubtless be only fulfilled (as always) in splinters and fragments, that certain technologies can cause decentralization, an increase in flexibility and decrease in fragility. my own suspicion is that within a foreseeably short period of time, perhaps a few centuries to a millenium, humans will persist as pets of AI beings.
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Dec 17, 2015 02:11
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OP it sounds like social media is a platform on which to act out many of the same social rituals, but with nominal differences.
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Dec 17, 2015 02:25
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The Skeleton King posted:In older days, weak and corrupt leaders would be killed and replaced. Whether it be by an angry mob, an assassin, or any other means, society would change. Whether or not this made things better or worse was not the point. The point was that something was forced to change. the problem is there is no corrupt emperor to rise up and kill. if the praetorian guard could just corner capitalism in an alley and gut it then the world would be a better place 
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Dec 17, 2015 02:32
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we are ruled by the praetorian guard. they are the capitalists.
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Dec 17, 2015 02:35
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The Skeleton King posted:In older days, weak and corrupt leaders would be killed and replaced. Whether it be by an angry mob, an assassin, or any other means, society would change. Whether or not this made things better or worse was not the point. The point was that something was forced to change. i feel like this happened only occasionally and most of the time people were just shat on throughout history
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Dec 17, 2015 02:43
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thathonkey posted:let's face it... before the ubiquity of social networking (facebook, tweeter, digg, and the like) human society was in pretty bad shape already don't get me wrong. but now an entire generation is being raised in a world where social networking is the premiere form of socializing with classmates, friends, family, etc. In effect, your worth is now based around things like number of likes/stars/favorites your terrible quality religious/political/"super hilarious" meme and image macros accumulate. they check their various social accounts upwards 200 times a day according to a recent special i watched on one of the most quality cable outlets that exists (CNN, natch). having the red "new notification" badge elicits a similar reaction to a heroin junkie craving his iix spotting a Digg killed my father
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Dec 17, 2015 02:45
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nomadologique posted:you always know beefturret is holding back until he decides to let a little go. Humans as pets will only be practical for the brief period before the AIs go into space. If we're lucky they'll ally with nature and remake the planet into a zoo, maybe keep a few of us in sustainable numbers. If we're not so lucky they won't give a poo poo, and will turn Earth into a lifeless dry husk as they leave.
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Dec 17, 2015 05:34
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monkey posted:Humans as pets will only be practical for the brief period before the AIs go into space. If we're lucky they'll ally with nature and remake the planet into a zoo, maybe keep a few of us in sustainable numbers. If we're not so lucky they won't give a poo poo, and will turn Earth into a lifeless dry husk as they leave. Americans fought a war to stop humans as pets
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Dec 17, 2015 05:38
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lol you people are old
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Dec 17, 2015 06:46
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Moridin920 posted:lol you people are old That's why we have functioning long-term memory, yes.
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Dec 17, 2015 18:59
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