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Another Un-LP-able game falls and I'm pretty okay with that.
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Mar 30, 2017 17:00
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Jack-Off Lantern posted:In real Japan, aren't you guilty because innocent cases never reach the courts, and guilty until proven innocent? The system is probably set up to mirror the US justice system (part of what makes Japan seem odd sometimes is that they had their society forcibly restructured to mirror the USA's during the occupation in a process that was kind of poorly-implemented). I have no doubt that, on paper, one is supposed to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, but everything I've read suggests that in practice you're right. Japanese courts have a conviction rate that looks absurd even compared to the US; Quick googling suggests that, while the numbers are skewed slightly because they include guilty pleas and the bargains they often entail, US Federal Courts have a ridiculous 93% conviction rate, and Japanese courts have a conviction rate CONSIDERABLY HIGHER THAN 99%. The linked material from Google suggests that low prosecutorial budgets are the primary reason since prosecutors are dissuaded from bringing any but the most obviously guilty persons before a judge, but I think that's more a symptom of some of the ridiculous expectations of career life in Japan, where it's generally expected in most fields that you be a perfect spotless god-like robot and any failure, even in what is ostensibly a field where success is not guaranteed like healthcare or the justice system, is considered a dark blemish and a sign of your incompetence, and you're supposed to just labor on for peanuts because that's just how it is.
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Mar 30, 2017 18:46
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Well that's horrifying.
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Mar 30, 2017 19:05
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Well that's horrifying. This is basically the thesis of the series.
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Mar 30, 2017 19:04
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And it's even worse for defense attorneys. I remember reading some article on how the AA series lambasts the Japanese criminal justice system that noted that it's not uncommon for attorneys to go their entire career without getting a single win, in addition to being treated like pariahs.
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Mar 30, 2017 19:27
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They also didn't have trial by jury until a few years back.
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Mar 30, 2017 21:19
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Funky Valentine posted:They also didn't have trial by jury until a few years back. To be fair, trial by jury is pretty rare worldwide.
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Mar 30, 2017 21:35
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Regalingualius posted:And it's even worse for defense attorneys. I remember reading some article on how the AA series lambasts the Japanese criminal justice system that noted that it's not uncommon for attorneys to go their entire career without getting a single win, in addition to being treated like pariahs. Putting in that way made me only just now get the joke of having a spirit medium who can talk with the dead as your tag-along through most of the first game, since morticians/anyone who deals with the dead are social outcasts as well (and she's not even very good at it yet). You're basically the most disreputable possible pair of pariahs in all of Japanifornia, which probably is meant to lend even more weight to everyone's shock and disbelief at your temerity (and successes).
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Mar 30, 2017 22:19
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I know it's not directly related, but how well does their civil justice system fare?
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Mar 30, 2017 23:32
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Funky Valentine posted:They also didn't have trial by jury until a few years back. Personally I'm not a fan of a jury system in any form. Professional judges should decide because they are more likely to distant themselves from the personal side of things and in theory should be able to render a fair judgement. But no system is or will ever be perfect. The adversial system in general scares me.
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Mar 31, 2017 01:15
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CVE posted:Personally I'm not a fan of a jury system in any form. Professional judges should decide because they are more likely to distant themselves from the personal side of things and in theory should be able to render a fair judgement. But no system is or will ever be perfect. The adversial system in general scares me. The adversarial system is in quite a minority when you look at how justice was carried out in history. Most commonly, justice involved a handful of professionals who, rather than squaring off with one side seeking to prosecute and the other side defending, they were all charged with attempting to figure out the truth. This is commonly known as an inquisitorial system, and (as the connotations associated with that name might imply), it wasn't exactly sunshine and rainbows in practice.
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Mar 31, 2017 01:42
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CVE posted:Personally I'm not a fan of a jury system in any form. Professional judges should decide because they are more likely to distant themselves from the personal side of things and in theory should be able to render a fair judgement. But no system is or will ever be perfect. The adversial system in general scares me. If you can't trust all twelve people to distance themselves properly, you sure as gently caress can't trust just one.
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Mar 31, 2017 02:02
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Plus a jury is selected from citizens, not the government, so it's a bit of a defense against a rampaging government throwing people in the clink for no reason.
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Mar 31, 2017 02:05
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Jabor posted:This is commonly known as an inquisitorial system, and (as the connotations associated with that name might imply), it wasn't exactly sunshine and rainbows in practice. I'm seriously considering leaving nothing but a gif in response, because that bit is just... very hard to adequately respond to using words. Those parts of the world that do not operate based on Common Law (oddly enough, despite what you may assume based on watching Hollywood movies, a majority rather than a minority of the world's law systems) often use Inquisitorial proceedings for some / all of the investigation. The current incarnation of the system has absolutely nothing to do with the Inquisition, Spanish or otherwise. (Being based in the Napoleonic Code is a fairly good hint) Xander77 fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Mar 31, 2017 |
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Mar 31, 2017 04:07
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Funky Valentine posted:If you can't trust all twelve people to distance themselves properly, you sure as gently caress can't trust just one. You probably can if the one person is an experienced professional obliged to follow ethical and legal guidelines in their work as opposed to twelve randos who are there for one case. FoolyCharged posted:Plus a jury is selected from citizens, not the government, so it's a bit of a defense against a rampaging government throwing people in the clink for no reason. If the state is willing to run roughshod over the rule of law they would certainly not be above simply strongarming the jury members to get a guilty verdict. This happened quite frequently in England before sometime in the early 19th century. Besides that, the US has a jury system yet it throws far more people in the clink than other western nations, so the empirical data doesn't support that juries would offer much protection.
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Mar 31, 2017 08:24
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Cerebral Bore posted:If the state is willing to run roughshod over the rule of law they would certainly not be above simply strongarming the jury members to get a guilty verdict. This happened quite frequently in England before sometime in the early 19th century. Sentencing is usually up to the judge, though since the late 80s the US has had mandatory minimum requirements on sentencing for various crimes, where the requirements were set by Congress, which kind of ties judges' hands. Add to that the fact that a lot of prosecutors push for the maximums possible from the beginning with the intention of causing the defendant to cop a plea to lesser charges even if they're innocent.
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Mar 31, 2017 08:32
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It turns out justice systems are hard. That said, it's also pretty obvious that both the Japanese and US systems, at least, have plenty of room for improvement. And Japanifornia is just loving bonkers; Wright winning AT ALL, much less repeatedly, seems like it should be enough to send serious reverberations through that shitheap.
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Mar 31, 2017 08:37
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Cerebral Bore posted:You probably can if the one person is an experienced professional obliged to follow ethical and legal guidelines in their work as opposed to twelve randos who are there for one case. In Italy the judge (or judges) decide on their own, but we're in a civil law system. Meaning they have to follow the letter of the law, not the spirit, and there is no such thing as precedent, each ruling is made autonomously. Plus they have to provide an explanation in wiring for their ruling, i.e. which laws they applied and why.
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Mar 31, 2017 08:56
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I kind of wonder if these game series had a serious impact on the public opinion about lawyers in Japan? I mean, it is pretty drat well known.
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Mar 31, 2017 16:14
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Shogeton posted:I kind of wonder if these game series had a serious impact on the public opinion about lawyers in Japan? I mean, it is pretty drat well known. Seriously well known , given that aside from the games, there was also a movie and a stage play based on it.
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Apr 9, 2017 18:48
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And if you're discussing the musical when saying the Stage Play, it's like 6 hours long when case 3 is included.
BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Apr 9, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 23:04
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IIRC, there's a movie, an anime, two manga series (and some officially sanctioned doujin anthologies), three Takarazuka musicals (where the characters use their English names), at least two non-musical stage plays, some audio dramas, and a feature in a theme park. This is still not a comprehensive list. E: For one thing, I forgot the pachinko machine. VivaLa Eeveelution fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Apr 10, 2017 |
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Apr 10, 2017 01:30
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The Deviations posted:E: For one thing, I forgot the pachinko machine. Ill be disappointed if you dont play it by slamming on a table and pointing.
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Apr 10, 2017 10:16
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maybe I'm a bit slow on the update and/or missed a link, but is this thread over?
Wipfmetz fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Apr 24, 2017 |
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Apr 24, 2017 21:38
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This is the final update. I'm working on getting the material ready for a new thread for AA2, but I'm also starting a brand new job which has been taking precedence.
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Apr 24, 2017 21:46
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Mors Rattus posted:This is the final update.  Good luck with your new job!
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Apr 25, 2017 04:55
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