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Vargatron
Apr 19, 2008

MRAZZLE DAZZLE


This August marked the one year anniversary of me starting and learning how to play goaltender in an ice hockey league in South Carolina. During this time, I've traveled to 5 different states to play and attended a camp featuring instruction from current NHL goalies such as Garret Sparks of the Toronto Maple Leafs and Mike Condon of the Montreal Canadiens. During this camp I also learned from Olympic Gold Medalist Shannon Szabados and three time World Champion Alex Rigsby.

You may be wondering why somebody with only a year of experience is making a thread, but I wanted to share the insight I've gained from learning about a sport that I had no experience with until a few years prior. Goaltending is seen as one of those "mystery" positions in sport with many rumors and misconceptions about play, ranging from crazy superstitions to just plain crazy goalies (yes it is true that most goalies are insane). Also, hockey is essentially an anomaly in the Southeast, so I may be able to provide a perspective outside of those who grew up playing hockey.

To start off I'd like to give a brief summary of the position and the role of the position in ice hockey. Simply put, the goalie's job is to prevent the puck from going in the net. This can be accomplished with any part of the body or using any technique that prevents the puck from fully crossing the goal line and into the net. Historically goaltenders made saves standing up and rarely dropped to their knees to make saves, however advances in technology from the last 30 years have completely changed the way the position is played. Goalies now play in a "butterfly" style with the majority of save made from the goalie's knees.

Here are a couple of examples of the two contrasting styles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_RsuT8ZmsQ
This is a highlight video from the 1980s showing Mike Palmateer of Toronto facing a number of elite shooters from that era. Notice that he employs a vertical posture play and attempts to make saves using kick and diving motions. His leg pad design is also typical of the era, lacking many of the features of common pads (which I will elaborate on in future posts).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOc5tQTeHhw
Here is a compilation video from the 2015-2016 season which shows highlight saves made from a variety of goaltenders across the NHL. Notice how majority of the saves are made for the goaltender's knees. Advances in mask and leg pad technology have completely changed the way goaltending is approached in the last 30 years. These changes also led to modern day techniques, such as butterfly slides, recoveries and terms such as VH and RVH.

Now within this base summary of what a goaltender does lies an ocean of intricacy and technical details that may not be apparent at first glance. Physical conditioning, positioning, skating and mental fortitude all must be combined when playing as goaltender. It's the most difficult position on the ice, but can also be the most satisfying to those with the correct mental outlook.

So basically, ask me anything in regards to playing as a goaltender and I will do my best to answer the questions. We also have a few guys in the SA forum who play goalie as well and can offer additional insight. A few good starter topics include basic technique, equipment specifics and breaking down the mental and physical aspects of goaltending.

I'd also like to note that while I'm fairly well read on this subject, I may provide contradictory or incorrect information. Goaltending is constantly evolving and different players will have different perspectives on how the position is played. I'll attempt to provided information that is generally accepted as fact, but opinions can vary.

Edit: Mods please change the primary tag to Sports. I was an idiot and pasted back into the thread submission page after a refresh.

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Ride The Gravitron
May 2, 2008

by FactsAreUseless
How many teeth do you have left?

Vargatron
Apr 19, 2008

MRAZZLE DAZZLE


Volume posted:

How many teeth do you have left?

Still got a full grill. My mask keeps me from losing teeth and I wear a full cage when I skate as a forward.

Polish
Jul 5, 2007

I touch myself at night
Can you sub for me for the month of October?

Also, what is your worse loss high score so far?

Vargatron
Apr 19, 2008

MRAZZLE DAZZLE


Polish posted:

Can you sub for me for the month of October?

Also, what is your worse loss high score so far?

Sure, if you live in Upstate SC. :cheeky:

Worst loss so far has been 9-1. Faced about 51 shots in the game, so I wasn't too upset with the result. Most demoralizing loss was a 4-3 loss where the final goal was scored with 20 seconds left.

Polish
Jul 5, 2007

I touch myself at night
Yeah those happen.. keep working at it man!

Just.. don't.. work at your rink.

Shooting Blanks
Jun 6, 2007

Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade



I believe the term is "netminder"

Hand Knit
Oct 24, 2005

Beer Loses more than a game Sunday ...
We lost our Captain, our Teammate, our Friend Kelly Calabro...
Rest in Peace my friend you will be greatly missed..
How'd you decide to start being a goalie at this stage?

Vargatron
Apr 19, 2008

MRAZZLE DAZZLE


Hand Knit posted:

How'd you decide to start being a goalie at this stage?

I think at first the position seemed really weird to me watching on TV. I kind of wanted to understand a bit more about it and the more I read about technique and strategy, the more I wanted to try it. There was also a pretty significant goalie shortage at my local rink, so I thought I'd be "contributing" more if I put on pads and got in the net. Free ice time was also a good incentive. I fell in love with playing goalie after the first time I got in net.

Kritzkrieg Kop
Nov 4, 2009
Is your skating skill very good? I've heard that goalies have to be one of the best skaters on the team.

What's your height and weight? What's the smallest goalie you've ever seen play?

Vargatron
Apr 19, 2008

MRAZZLE DAZZLE


Kritzkrieg Kop posted:

Is your skating skill very good? I've heard that goalies have to be one of the best skaters on the team.

What's your height and weight? What's the smallest goalie you've ever seen play?

Skating is probably one of my biggest areas of improvement since it's so important to play goalie. It's true that goalies have to be one of the best skaters and the reason behind this is the amount of edge control you must have to move effectively in the crease. There is constant lateral movement and you need to have the ability to quickly reverse your momentum to react to a play. The key principal is that you want to minimize the amount of time you are in motion and maximize the time you are in a "set" position, ready to make a save.

I'm about 5'8" and 145 pounds. I'm actually the smallest goalie in my league. Here's a pregame photo:



You can compensate for small size by coming out a bit further in the crease. You can play further back if you are bigger and this requires a little less movement.

The shortest goalie I've played with was around 5'2". She plays occasionally in pickups at my local rink and is pretty good.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
You mentioned getting free ice time. Is that a perk of being a goalie?

Also, how good of a skater were you before you started playing?

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006

How Doers get more done
Fun Shoe

Baronash posted:

You mentioned getting free ice time. Is that a perk of being a goalie?

Also, how good of a skater were you before you started playing?

In a lot of places in the US it's customary for goalies to either pay less or even play for free outright. It's a bit of a tradition because it's not always easy to find goalies and you can't well have beer league hockey without them. Also goalie equipment is more expensive than skater equipment, with good leg pads in particular costing a lot of money.

Whether this is the case in Canada or not, I don't know. It may be different there as ice is cheaper, gear is more readily available, and there is a larger pool of players.

Vargatron
Apr 19, 2008

MRAZZLE DAZZLE


Baronash posted:

You mentioned getting free ice time. Is that a perk of being a goalie?

Also, how good of a skater were you before you started playing?

Because the gear is so expensive, you generally get reduced league fees and free ice time to offset it. Some leagues don't offer reductions, but pretty much every rink I've been to lets goalies skate for free.

I skated for around 9 months before I put on goalie gear. I was to the point where I could do forward and backwards crossovers and well and front to backwards transitions. Goalie skating is way different, but many of the same principles, such as weight and edge control remain the same.

Funny thing is, it takes me about 10 minutes to adjust to regular player skates if I decide to go skate out for practice. Player skates have a more curved and shorter blade in comparison to goalie skates.

Dogfish
Nov 4, 2009

Ginette Reno posted:

In a lot of places in the US it's customary for goalies to either pay less or even play for free outright. It's a bit of a tradition because it's not always easy to find goalies and you can't well have beer league hockey without them. Also goalie equipment is more expensive than skater equipment, with good leg pads in particular costing a lot of money.

Whether this is the case in Canada or not, I don't know. It may be different there as ice is cheaper, gear is more readily available, and there is a larger pool of players.

Yes, it's the case in Canada. Goalie equipment is expensive as hell so there are fewer goalies in the age brackets where your parents don't buy your equipment any more, so there are fewer available. I've never heard of a goalie paying for ice time in a rec league.

Also this thread is really interesting to read as a Canadian. I tend to think of the States as just a warmer, weirder Canada, but there are these little cultural differences that you don't notice until they're right in front of you. The idea that someone could grow to adulthood without extensive exposure to hockey is really weird to me.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

How does it work if a goalie gets a penalty? Is there a play stoppage to get a replacement geared up?

Is there a point where having a goalie be too large would be a disadvantage? Would an athletic 300 lb 7ft guy be incredible or an easy target?

Vargatron
Apr 19, 2008

MRAZZLE DAZZLE


Mojo Threepwood posted:

How does it work if a goalie gets a penalty? Is there a play stoppage to get a replacement geared up?

Is there a point where having a goalie be too large would be a disadvantage? Would an athletic 300 lb 7ft guy be incredible or an easy target?

Goaltender penalties are served by a skater who was on the ice at the time of the penalty. A goaltender doesn't get ejected unless a game misconduct is issued, at which point a backup goes in. Unfortunately, there are no backups if you get tossed in beer league.

Height definitely affords an advantage in net, but you still have to be able to skate and move effectively. A tall goalie is able to play further back in the net and take up the same space as a smaller goalie would. At a certain point, coming out too far is just wasted coverage and makes it harder for you to respond to lateral play.

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006

How Doers get more done
Fun Shoe

Dogfish posted:

Yes, it's the case in Canada. Goalie equipment is expensive as hell so there are fewer goalies in the age brackets where your parents don't buy your equipment any more, so there are fewer available. I've never heard of a goalie paying for ice time in a rec league.

Also this thread is really interesting to read as a Canadian. I tend to think of the States as just a warmer, weirder Canada, but there are these little cultural differences that you don't notice until they're right in front of you. The idea that someone could grow to adulthood without extensive exposure to hockey is really weird to me.

It depends where in the US you are. If you grow up in Michigan, Minnesota, or the North East US, it will be pretty hard to grow up without some level of exposure to hockey. I grew up in Massachusetts and hockey was extremely popular there. Not as popular as football or baseball, granted, but it had a healthy following.

Mojo Threepwood posted:

How does it work if a goalie gets a penalty? Is there a play stoppage to get a replacement geared up?

Is there a point where having a goalie be too large would be a disadvantage? Would an athletic 300 lb 7ft guy be incredible or an easy target?

A player from the goalie's team that was on the ice when the penalty occurred has to serve the penalty for the goalie.

Big goalies are all the rage these days in the NHL, but within reason. You wouldn't want to be 300 pounds in the net because you wouldn't be able to move at all and pro players are good enough to exploit a goalie that can't at all move. But most NHL goalies now are over 6 feet tall and it's undeniably preferable to have a larger goalie who can cover a lot of net. Large goalies especially have an advantage because they can play deeper in their nets than a smaller goalie and when they go down in the butterfly they still cover a lot of the upper portion of the net.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

Cool thanks for info, that is interesting.

If a player has a one on one breakaway against the goalie do they usually score (like in soccer) or does the goalie still have the advantage?

Do you think fighting will be phased out of professional hockey in the near future? With the enormous problems the NFL is having with concussions, it seems like one of the biggest targets that the NHL could improve to keep players healthy.

Is fighting condoned in beer league, or would that be insanely dangerous?

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Dogfish posted:

The idea that someone could grow to adulthood without extensive exposure to hockey is really weird to me.

Do you mean you're surprised that not as many people play it, or that not that many people watch it regularly? What is it like in Canada, is it something that every Dad signs up their kid for?

Vargatron
Apr 19, 2008

MRAZZLE DAZZLE


Mojo Threepwood posted:

If a player has a one on one breakaway against the goalie do they usually score (like in soccer) or does the goalie still have the advantage?

One on one's are basically 50-50 either way. The real issue is that the shooter has no pressure and can therefore pick his shot more effectively or try and do a feint. From the goalie perspective, you have to be very aggressive on challenging the shooter and the proper depth and not biting too early and dropping to the butterfly or committing to lateral movement. You lose all mobility when you drop and the shooter can skate around you for an easy goal.

Mojo Threepwood posted:

Do you think fighting will be phased out of professional hockey in the near future? With the enormous problems the NFL is having with concussions, it seems like one of the biggest targets that the NHL could improve to keep players healthy.

Personally I think that fighting detracts from the game, but there are many who think it's an essential part of the sport. The argument is that the threat of fighting deters dirty play and cheap hits, but at some point you have to leave it up to the referees to assess the correct penalties.

Mojo Threepwood posted:

Is fighting condoned in beer league, or would that be insanely dangerous?

In my league, fighting is an automatic 5 game suspension and you are expelled from all league play on the second offense. You're there for exercise and the love of the game, not to crush somebody who has an 8:00AM staff meeting the next day.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Vargatron posted:

I skated for around 9 months before I put on goalie gear. I was to the point where I could do forward and backwards crossovers and well and front to backwards transitions. Goalie skating is way different, but many of the same principles, such as weight and edge control remain the same.

What made you decide to take up skating? Were you planning on getting into hockey, or did one follow the other?

Vargatron
Apr 19, 2008

MRAZZLE DAZZLE


Baronash posted:

What made you decide to take up skating? Were you planning on getting into hockey, or did one follow the other?

My best friend started playing when he lived in Charlotte for a few years. He moved back into town and I started hanging out with him at the rink. I watched a couple of his pickup games and I thought it'd be cool to try and play. So then I bought a pair of skates and started learning how to skate and play at the same time.

I had honestly never started watching hockey at all until the 2014-2015 season, which is when I started playing myself. I fell in love with the game afterwards. Being from the South, I was never had any of the exposure to the sport. It's actually funny when my dad comes to watch me play now. He calls me during the week asking for an explanation of plays or stoppages from the game he just watched.

Corsair Pool Boy
Dec 17, 2004
College Slice

Dogfish posted:

Also this thread is really interesting to read as a Canadian. I tend to think of the States as just a warmer, weirder Canada, but there are these little cultural differences that you don't notice until they're right in front of you. The idea that someone could grow to adulthood without extensive exposure to hockey is really weird to me.

Yeah, it's really different in the US. When I visited Canada the first time, I was amazed. Everywhere that had a TV basically had hockey on all the time - it's like that for football here - at the chain restaurant that has a marketing deal with the Caps, I had to fight with them to turn one TV to the game.

I'm lucky, in that there are four(!) rinks within a 30 minute drive from my house. 20 years ago, there was one, and it was a dump. For most of the US, hockey is something you have to very actively seek out or it may as well just not exist.

Mojo Threepwood posted:

Do you think fighting will be phased out of professional hockey in the near future? With the enormous problems the NFL is having with concussions, it seems like one of the biggest targets that the NHL could improve to keep players healthy.

Is fighting condoned in beer league, or would that be insanely dangerous?

Fighting is already sort of getting phased out, it's far less prevalent than it was a decade ago. Concussions and injuries are part of it, but (IMO) it's more about all the effete European/Russian players coming over - the game changed a lot when the iron curtain came down.

Fighting is flat out not allowed in beer leagues. It's not even really tolerated in international competitions - you almost never see fights in the Olympics and things like that.

Vargatron posted:

Personally I think that fighting detracts from the game, but there are many who think it's an essential part of the sport. The argument is that the threat of fighting deters dirty play and cheap hits, but at some point you have to leave it up to the referees to assess the correct penalties.

Agreed, but at the same time, most of the really dirty stuff happens off the puck, and the refs miss those calls constantly.

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Dogfish
Nov 4, 2009

Baronash posted:

Do you mean you're surprised that not as many people play it, or that not that many people watch it regularly? What is it like in Canada, is it something that every Dad signs up their kid for?

Not everybody plays hockey in Canada (hockey equipment is expensive, league fees are expensive) but hockey is just so much part of the culture here. When I was growing up, everyone traded hockey cards. Everyone had a favourite player and a favourite team. Everyone had a game of road hockey on their street at some point. It's just bizarre to me that you could grow up without absorbing the language and culture of hockey literally everywhere.

I guess it's kind of like, you know, I'm Jewish, but I still understand the basics of Christianity: I know the main sects within the religion, I understand basically what happens in a church service, I know the highlights of the New Testament and the principal beliefs of the religion. Why? Because it's everywhere; it's a huge cultural force. It's just there. Not knowing that beer league goalies get free ice time would be like not knowing about Communion. It's not sometime I personally participate in, but it occupies a huge amount of cultural space. (I'm not saying hockey is a religion in Canada, mind. I'm just saying that it occupies a lot of cultural real estate.)

Also I have to laugh because as I'm typing this my husband is, you guessed it, watching hockey on the other side of the room.

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