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Sandbagger SA
Aug 12, 2003

Giant Thighs.
Painted Threads.
Just Off the Highway.
MY GIRLFRIEND loves to drive stick.

A lot.

She learned early on mantrans cars in the 90s. To her, one of the best parts of the driving experience is rowing your own gears.

The only problem is that a dozen years ago due to complications following chemotherapy, she had to have her right leg amputated above the knee. This means she gas/brakes with the left foot only and the closest she gets to rowing gears is the shifty auto sports transmission on her Impreza.

Recently, for funsies, I had her try 1 leg driving my 5 speed 87 Wrangler on some dirt roads. She loved it and now we're interested in researching options to make the clutch on manual trans car operable by hand so that she can enjoy rowing gears again.

I've looked into two options so far. One is the hydraulic/electric "Duck Clutch" modification which introduces a lever to the gear shifter so that you can clutch in with your right hand. This is by far the more expensive option.

The second option is Alfred Bekker hand clutch which a simpler lever/arm system that allows the driver to hold the clutch in with the steering arm while shifting with the right arm. I'm not sure if they export kits to the united states.

Anyone else consider this?



bonus catte photo

Sandbagger SA fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Dec 9, 2016

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antiquepacbell
Nov 4, 2012
It may be easier for you to find gear to operate the gas and break by hand. Every mobility vehicle I have seen has this sort of set up. Just thinking out loud. Good luck on finding a solutions.

Sandbagger SA
Aug 12, 2003

Giant Thighs.
Painted Threads.
Just Off the Highway.

antiquepacbell posted:

It may be easier for you to find gear to operate the gas and break by hand. Every mobility vehicle I have seen has this sort of set up. Just thinking out loud. Good luck on finding a solutions.

I was aware of gas/brake mods but hadn't thought about modifying a one to work a clutch pedal. It's an idea!

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.
Given a way to power-assist it, a simple hand lever on the gearstick strikes me as the best way, which is what I understand the "duck clutch" you mention to be. I don't see why it would need to be especially expensive, though. If you can make a hydraulic brake hand operated, you can make a hydraulic clutch be so as well, with exactly the same kit.

Or instead of a lever, maybe have it as a twistgrip like a motorcycle throttle, so the effect is like the combined throttle/collective on a helicopter.

It may interest you to know that my (1958) Standard was available with a "Standrive" option where they had a centrifugal clutch system, and a vacuum-operated mechanism to disengage the clutch if you touched the gearknob, so it's certainly not a new idea.


Edit: If it's a vehicle that uses a transmission which is adapted in some uses as a sequential shift, could you use that kit so the gearstick has two planes of motion - pull back to disengage the clutch, and knock it left/right to shift up/down.

InitialDave fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Dec 6, 2016

Astonishing Wang
Nov 3, 2004
I don't think it's very feasible with a mantrans. My buddy is paralzyed from the waist down and uses relatively simple hand controls to work the gas and brakes on his auto Wrangler. Gas, brakes, steering, clutch - too many moving parts for only two hands and one leg.

Bulk Vanderhuge
May 2, 2009

womp womp womp womp
I remember something about a Lambo Shaq bought for his wife, it had a custom setup that auto clutched somehow when you touch the shift knob. Google didn't bring anything up so I could just be mistaken.

What about something with a DSG?

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.

Bulk Vanderhuge posted:

What about something with a DSG?
I was going to suggest that too, but I think he specifically wants to adapt vehicles they already own.

Bibendum
Sep 5, 2003
nunc est Bibendum
The "Duck Clutch" seems neat, I am imagining a motorcycle style lever on the shift lever running to a remote power brake cylinder sleeved to the size of the clutch cylinder.

fake edit: apparently clutch boosters are a thing. Came stock on the 3000gt and lots of big trucks and aftermarket from http://www.redbooster.com/

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
A friend of mine who had only mantrans vehicles and busted his left foot a few years ago solved this problem by welding up an extension/adapter/heehaw redneck thing that let him clutch with his left hand, which I think is one of the options you listed. It wasn't ideal as he had to use his bum leg to hold the steering wheel while shifting with both hands, but it did work.

Bibendum posted:

The "Duck Clutch" seems neat, I am imagining a motorcycle style lever on the shift lever running to a remote power brake cylinder sleeved to the size of the clutch cylinder.

fake edit: apparently clutch boosters are a thing. Came stock on the 3000gt and lots of big trucks and aftermarket from http://www.redbooster.com/

Cool!

randomidiot
May 12, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 11 years!)

InitialDave posted:

I was going to suggest that too, but I think he specifically wants to adapt vehicles they already own.

That, and he specifically said his girlfriend missed having a real stick to row with.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.

Yu-Gi-Ho! posted:

That, and he specifically said his girlfriend missed having a real stick to row with.
Allllllll together now:
:pervert:

cursedshitbox
May 20, 2012

Your rear-end wont survive my hammering.



Fun Shoe

Yu-Gi-Ho! posted:

That, and he specifically said his girlfriend missed having a real stick to row with.


Some people like a sizable gearstick. a little shortshifter just doesnt give you the same satisfaction as a long throw.



have you considered pneumatic actuators or the like? You could use a pull/push lever on the gear stick itself to finesse the clutch.

Slick
Jun 6, 2003
Instead of a Duck clutch what about throttle on the gearshift?

It would be nice if a thumb throttle or twist throttle was on the gearshift. She could clutch, steer and shift/control throttle at the same time, and then use her good leg for gas/brake as needed.


https://www.picoauto.com/library/training/electronic-throttle-control-drive-by-wire-or-fly-by-wire

Chances of 3d printing a driving prosthetic?

Cached Money
Apr 11, 2010

I saw one gadget in an old clip of an Audi group B car, with a button on the shift knob that somehow engaged the clutch instantly when pressed, anyone else seen this?

CAT INTERCEPTOR
Nov 9, 2004

Basically a male Margaret Thatcher

Cached Money posted:

I saw one gadget in an old clip of an Audi group B car, with a button on the shift knob that somehow engaged the clutch instantly when pressed, anyone else seen this?

I was just about to suggest this.

On the Audi in question, there was a trigger button that engages a pneumatic actuator to move the pedal. Fairly simple to do as well, but of course no real subtley about it - it just slammed in and out as hard as the actuator was set up for. You could replicate that but not have the actuator work as fast.

Cached Money
Apr 11, 2010

The good thing about that setup is that she could use her leg to ease off the clutch for creeping around parking lots, etc.

Or you could have two buttons on the shifter, one for smooth engagement and one for race-style shifts.

Kaptainballistik
Nov 2, 2005

Why ask me ? I cant understand me either!


I would seriously consider a vf40-44 remote booster to reduce force and a motorbike clutch lever on the gear stick actuating a master cylinder via a pushrod or the bike hydro cylinder actuating directly onto the existing master.

A 320 booster off a STI has a force ratio multiplier of 1:17 so if you can mount the clutch master on this, then use a Bike clutch setup (say a Ducati one) to actuate , you should have a less than a pound of clutch actuation force.

Kaptainballistik fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Dec 9, 2016

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011

:h:

Drift dudes seem to be doing poo poo like this a bunch...

One leg, 2 pedals, clutch on a hydraulic lever on the stick. Looks pretty cool in all honesty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSiBOkAIEWA

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug
Maybe a variable position switch feeding a stepper that presses the clutch?

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
Steppers blow rear end unless you're building an idle air control valve, floppy drive, or inkjet printer.

Rather than get microcontrollers and motors and poo poo involved (even as a computer engineer) I would go with some sort of booster setup.

BlackMK4
Aug 23, 2006

wat.
Megamarm

Kaptainballistik posted:

I would seriously consider a vf40-44 remote booster to reduce force and a motorbike clutch lever on the gear stick actuating a master cylinder via a pushrod or the bike hydro cylinder actuating directly onto the existing master.

A 320 booster off a STI has a force ratio multiplier of 1:17 so if you can mount the clutch master on this, then use a Bike clutch setup (say a Ducati one) to actuate , you should have a less than a pound of clutch actuation force.

No real reason to go with a Duc master, could just use the cheapest brake master you can find with the proper piston size.

BlackMK4
Aug 23, 2006

wat.
Megamarm

Olympic Mathlete posted:

Drift dudes seem to be doing poo poo like this a bunch...

One leg, 2 pedals, clutch on a hydraulic lever on the stick. Looks pretty cool in all honesty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSiBOkAIEWA

This is rad as gently caress.

Wrar
Sep 9, 2002


Soiled Meat
That hand clutch drift setup is awesome, but probably not too far off from what KB was suggesting. Using Ducati stuff though is probably pointlessly expensive.

Sandbagger SA
Aug 12, 2003

Giant Thighs.
Painted Threads.
Just Off the Highway.
I'm a little put off by the idea of designing something pneumatic. It's not that I don't think it can be done but that I don't trust my engineering abilities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Oi-RznrRVw&t=2s

This is the sort of thing I was hoping to be able to replicate. It's ridiculously simple and possibly adaptable so that I could move it between vehicles.


Astonishing Wang posted:

I don't think it's very feasible with a mantrans. My buddy is paralzyed from the waist down and uses relatively simple hand controls to work the gas and brakes on his auto Wrangler. Gas, brakes, steering, clutch - too many moving parts for only two hands and one leg.

oh for sure- her left legs is perfectly functional though and does gas/brake like a pro.

I mean here she is driving my 5 speed wrangler with one leg. :v:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3tefzikEw0

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.
My vote is definitely for a motorcycle hand clutch on the shifter itself, using a remote vacuum servo to give the necessary boost to make it easy to operate, the obvious limitation being it would only work on hydraulic clutch mechanisms.

BlackMK4
Aug 23, 2006

wat.
Megamarm

InitialDave posted:

My vote is definitely for a motorcycle hand clutch on the shifter itself, using a remote vacuum servo to give the necessary boost to make it easy to operate, the obvious limitation being it would only work on hydraulic clutch mechanisms.

Could still be done using a normal cable clutch perch from a motorcycle along with something like a Moose EZPull.

Wrar posted:

That hand clutch drift setup is awesome, but probably not too far off from what KB was suggesting. Using Ducati stuff though is probably pointlessly expensive.

Yup, same ol lovely OE Brembo stuff. Pick up a used R6 or R1 radial master if you want the Brembo brand name. 16mm piston.

Sandbagger SA
Aug 12, 2003

Giant Thighs.
Painted Threads.
Just Off the Highway.
Girlfriend adding voice:

quote:

I am a right above knee amp. I work gas and brake with left foot. I adapt quickly to mechanical changes, both in prosthetic leg and car set-ups (i.e. going from normal gas/brake set-up to gas on the left of the brake and back). I have no qualms about working the clutch on the stick, or on/beside the steering wheel while working the stick &/or steering.

I do miss the "play" of the clutch as much as shifting. The idea of driving a stick as my every day driver really gets my juices flowing!

I really appreciate all your ideas and suggestion! :)

Cheers~

mariooncrack
Dec 27, 2008
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxWX4y_870c

I know your girlfriend loves driving stick but I saw this and thought it would be worth mentioning. It's an automatic but the owner still can shift and tracks it.

spookykid
Apr 28, 2006

mariooncrack posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxWX4y_870c

I know your girlfriend loves driving stick but I saw this and thought it would be worth mentioning. It's an automatic but the owner still can shift and tracks it.

I feel like a system that used that with clutch possibly work, but maybe not as well as the duck-bill clutch or motorcycle clutch lever adapted to the shifter like the formula D guy's setup.

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.

The miata left-hand clutch pictured above takes your hand away from controlling the wheel, sure you're still holding it but you can't do anything meaningful unless you let go of the clutch. I'd grab some wrecked bike hydraulics and start playing with the shifter location idea.

Question, could you clamp an adapter to the clutch pedal that comes up over the other pedals and is actuated by the right stump? It would need a prosthetics cup, hinge for knee and a leg rod but if it's feasible as long as the linkage fits it can be moved from car to car and doesn't involve hydraulic or pneumatic plumbing.

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011

:h:

BlackMK4 posted:

This is rad as gently caress.

With a bit of engineering work you could wangle it so the throw on the lever wasn't so large. I really want to drive this.

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Sandbagger SA
Aug 12, 2003

Giant Thighs.
Painted Threads.
Just Off the Highway.

mariooncrack posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxWX4y_870c

I know your girlfriend loves driving stick but I saw this and thought it would be worth mentioning. It's an automatic but the owner still can shift and tracks it.

When she lost her leg she had been driving a 5 speed civic and Honda traded her into an auto model.

She drove her slushbox model just like this for 240k miles. :laffo:

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