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Scarf
Jun 24, 2005

On sight

Stux posted:

The reason its low latency is to do with using gearbox as your modelling. So no, it wont be as low latency with anything else and its not because of some artifical prevention.

Also 3toes make sure you budget for the bass expansion pack for the toneport and make sure you dont mind tweaking your sound to get it right.

PS Agreed, is there any reason you hate line6 stuff so much? I dont really get it :smith:

Well again, the absolute final reason I want one is to easily record riffs... Right now I'm hanging my drat headset mic in front of my 410 cabinet.

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Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down

What do you mean, why do I "hate" Line 6? I don't hate any guitar gear, it's just equipment. I have no use for Line 6 because I have been consistently unimpressed with the quality of their models and effects compared to the strongest of their competitors. For what it's worth, if the choice were between a Boss GT8 or a PodXT, I'd take the XT every time. Not sure sure if I'd take the X3 over the GT-10, though, because the X3 has stepped down somewhat in overall quality while the GT-10 has improved significantly.

And when it comes to a software environment, frankly the Line6 models don't even tread water compared to the heavyweight VST modelers. Guitar Rig 3 Rig Kontrol Edition demolishes the Pod X3 Live out of the box, at the same pricepoint. But of course, you have to factor in a realtime VST capable computer, which rather tips the scales if you don't already have one, eh? Still, the sound quality is what it is. I use Guitar Rig 3 as an example because it's a similarly all-in-one solution, with an integrated foot controller/audio interface, etc.

As to your comment about the interface being low latency because it's used with Gearbox, that's just odd. I'm getting 2ms ASIO latency with live VST processing, which is really close to the theoretical minimum when factoring in A/D/A conversion, using a commercially available sound card. They're not going to be able to work any magic to make A/D/C occur any faster, especially not for a hundred or two hundred bucks - "low as it gets" is low as it gets, you know? But if their interface works poorly when used outside of Gearbox, I'd appreciate that information so that I can keep it in mind and tailor my recommendation accordingly. There are plenty of audio interfaces which work just fine at very low latencies that aren't quite so tailored to guitar, but which would not be useless outside of the host application. Take the aforementioned Rig Kontrol 3 footboard - you could use that as a low-latency, impedance correcting audio interface with any VST modeler, and with its midi functionality you could even use it as a control surface for that other modeler's parameters. It does have enhanced functionality within Guitar Rig 3 (automatic calibration, speedy and easy assignment of buttons to parameters), but the actual functions of it aren't compromised in any way outside of the native environment. Are you sure that the Toneport is?

Not that I suggest you look elsewhere, 3toes - you just need a scratchpad, basically, and it'll be a handy one, with admirable sound quality for tracking ideas and getting songs down on paper... so to speak.

Agreed fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Jun 19, 2008

Stux
Nov 17, 2006

Agreed posted:

What do you mean, why do I "hate" Line 6? I don't hate any guitar gear, it's just equipment. I have no use for Line 6 because I have been consistently unimpressed with the quality of their models and effects compared to the strongest of their competitors. For what it's worth, if the choice were between a Boss GT8 or a PodXT, I'd take the XT every time. Not sure sure if I'd take the X3 over the GT-10, though, because the X3 has stepped down somewhat in overall quality while the GT-10 has improved significantly.

And when it comes to a software environment, frankly the Line6 models don't even tread water compared to the heavyweight VST modelers. Guitar Rig 3 Rig Kontrol Edition demolishes the Pod X3 Live out of the box, at the same pricepoint. But of course, you have to factor in a realtime VST capable computer, which rather tips the scales if you don't already have one, eh? Still, the sound quality is what it is. I use Guitar Rig 3 as an example because it's a similarly all-in-one solution, with an integrated foot controller/audio interface, etc.

As to your comment about the interface being low latency because it's used with Gearbox, that's just odd. I'm getting 2ms ASIO latency with live VST processing, which is really close to the theoretical minimum when factoring in A/D/A conversion, using a commercially available sound card. They're not going to be able to work any magic to make A/D/C occur any faster, especially not for a hundred or two hundred bucks - "low as it gets" is low as it gets, you know? But if their interface works poorly when used outside of Gearbox, I'd appreciate that information so that I can keep it in mind and tailor my recommendation accordingly. There are plenty of audio interfaces which work just fine at very low latencies that aren't quite so tailored to guitar, but which would not be useless outside of the host application. Take the aforementioned Rig Kontrol 3 footboard - you could use that as a low-latency, impedance correcting audio interface with any VST modeler, and with its midi functionality you could even use it as a control surface for that other modeler's parameters. It does have enhanced functionality within Guitar Rig 3 (automatic calibration, speedy and easy assignment of buttons to parameters), but the actual functions of it aren't compromised in any way outside of the native environment. Are you sure that the Toneport is?

Not that I suggest you look elsewhere, 3toes - you just need a scratchpad, basically, and it'll be a handy one, with admirable sound quality for tracking ideas and getting songs down on paper... so to speak.

Here is a pretty video explaining the latency thing: http://line6.com/toneport/movies2.html

It wont have any MORE latency than any other AISO hardware with VSTs, its just the tonedirect thing is gearbox only.

Also what kind of bands use the VSTs you use? I'm into stuff like Meshuggah and Bulb right now, and they both have or do use the Pod XT/Gearbox for their actual recordings and live. I just havn't heard of any high gain bands using any modeller other than the line6 stuff.

Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down

I don't worry about what acts do or don't use the gear that I use, I worry about how it sounds for me. I do know that Guitar Rig 3 and Amplitube Metal are very successful programs, so a lot of people are using them, for what it's worth. I advise you to download an evaluation copy of Amplitube Metal and see if you think that the Pods can keep up. It's free for ten days, feature unlimited, then it starts making noises.

Edit: Oh, man, I meant to add, disable its crappy cabinet simulation and use a third-party convolution plugin like KeFIR and some cab impulses. Amplitube2, Jimi Hendrix, and Metal all have awful cabinet simulation compared to a good IR - I mean, it's workable if you really get to tweaking it, but it's such a pain compared to bypassing it and using something that just works. For those bands, I'd recommend using the Randall Warhead or Peavey 5150 models, boosted by running its Overdrive pedal up front with the pedal's distortion all the way down and the level and tone up. Gets some upper harmonics going, boosts the volume, but no "distortion" added as such, really tightens things up.

Agreed fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Jun 21, 2008

Flamadiddle
May 9, 2004

Does anyone have any experience with using a Pod in an FX send?

I just got a used Pod Pro rack unit, which I'd like to use in the FX loop of my Flextone III XL, but it doesn't seem like the Pod Pro comes with that functionality. The Line 6 web site says it's technically possible, but I'm worried that I'm running too hot a signal from the studio 1/4 out (-10db) back into the FX return on the amp.

What sort of levels are usually caught at an FX loop?

Steiler Drep
Nov 30, 2004
what?

Flamadiddle posted:

Does anyone have any experience with using a Pod in an FX send?

I just got a used Pod Pro rack unit, which I'd like to use in the FX loop of my Flextone III XL, but it doesn't seem like the Pod Pro comes with that functionality. The Line 6 web site says it's technically possible, but I'm worried that I'm running too hot a signal from the studio 1/4 out (-10db) back into the FX return on the amp.

What sort of levels are usually caught at an FX loop?

I don't know but from what I've read you have to turn off amp and cab simulation to make it work (if that's what you want to do).

Flamadiddle
May 9, 2004

Yeah, I've done all that, I'm just afraid to test it for too long in case it burns out the loop. I think I'll just hold out and get a TC Electronic G Major. Anyone selling one?

an AOL chatroom
Oct 3, 2002

Flamadiddle posted:

Yeah, I've done all that, I'm just afraid to test it for too long in case it burns out the loop. I think I'll just hold out and get a TC Electronic G Major. Anyone selling one?

That sounds like a good idea. Dirt up front (if any) and modulation in the loop. I've taken to running my amp's effects loop through a quadraverb that I got for $50 for reverb, since I wasn't really happy with the tank in my x100b.

Stux
Nov 17, 2006

Agreed posted:

I don't worry about what acts do or don't use the gear that I use, I worry about how it sounds for me. I do know that Guitar Rig 3 and Amplitube Metal are very successful programs, so a lot of people are using them, for what it's worth. I advise you to download an evaluation copy of Amplitube Metal and see if you think that the Pods can keep up. It's free for ten days, feature unlimited, then it starts making noises.

Edit: Oh, man, I meant to add, disable its crappy cabinet simulation and use a third-party convolution plugin like KeFIR and some cab impulses. Amplitube2, Jimi Hendrix, and Metal all have awful cabinet simulation compared to a good IR - I mean, it's workable if you really get to tweaking it, but it's such a pain compared to bypassing it and using something that just works. For those bands, I'd recommend using the Randall Warhead or Peavey 5150 models, boosted by running its Overdrive pedal up front with the pedal's distortion all the way down and the level and tone up. Gets some upper harmonics going, boosts the volume, but no "distortion" added as such, really tightens things up.

I have tried out I think all of the VSTs you've mentioned and I've been pretty unimpressed with them for high gain work compared to my toneport/pod xt. Although I can see why you might not have liked them, for high gain stuff you really kind of need the metal and FX booster packs and I dont know if you can get them for the gearbox vst or not.

Octavio
Nov 16, 2007

He doesn't even want the pancake, Little Blue Couch. ~~!!!
Okay so I'm interested in buying an effects pedal, but I don't know where to begin. I've never bought an effects pedal before... so I need some help. I've got a price range of about $200-$250

Scarf
Jun 24, 2005

On sight
Uhhh, what kind of effect would you like?

internet celebrity
Jun 23, 2006

College Slice

Octavio posted:

Okay so I'm interested in buying an effects pedal, but I don't know where to begin. I've never bought an effects pedal before... so I need some help. I've got a price range of about $200-$250

The tone of this post tells me that you want a Pod. Learn about effects and chaining from that, then decide if you want individual effects.

FlossMan
Oct 19, 2005

No, I can't. Too much hair.

hamaien posted:

The tone of this post tells me that you want a Pod. Learn about effects and chaining from that, then decide if you want individual effects.

I also recommend the Boss GT10. Yeah, it's still a bit pricey, but worth it.

Note: I don't own a GT10, but I do own a Pod. I like both.

Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down

Stux posted:

I have tried out I think all of the VSTs you've mentioned and I've been pretty unimpressed with them for high gain work compared to my toneport/pod xt. Although I can see why you might not have liked them, for high gain stuff you really kind of need the metal and FX booster packs and I dont know if you can get them for the gearbox vst or not.

You're welcome to your preferences, of course. I couldn't do that - I am currently in the middle of a transaction to move my G9.2tt into someone else's hands, and its high gain sounds are a lot more authentic than the PODxt's, and it still isn't in the same ballpark as ReValver MkIII. If it's a sound you like, though, and you're really familiar with it being a part of your workflow, then there's no reason to ditch it just because someone on the internet said it's crap.

Question, would you also argue that the Pod's amp models sound better than the AxeFX unit? I mean, there's only so much processing power to work with there and it has to fit not only the amp modeling but also the variety of effects that are possible (not actual, but possible at once - they have to program their algorithms with the hardware limitations in mind), they have to use a fairly linear model and the result is a fairly compressed sound to my ears. This is less of an issue with high gain models given their inherently high compression, but I don't see how you can argue that Guitar Rig 3 or ReValver MkIII have a sound that isn't impressive compared to the pod. They've just got so much more going on in the depth and complexity of their modeling, it's really a different ballgame completely.

Can you prefer the POD anyway? Well, yeah, of course. But it's odd to me, with a lot of experience with every one of the current modeling utilities except for Rocktron's, that someone would put the pod at the top of the list, given the target market, pricerange, and level of sophistication of its hardware and hence software compared to the higher end products.

Agreed fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Jun 24, 2008

Stux
Nov 17, 2006

Agreed posted:

You're welcome to your preferences, of course. I couldn't do that - I am currently in the middle of a transaction to move my G9.2tt into someone else's hands, and its high gain sounds are a lot more authentic than the PODxt's, and it still isn't in the same ballpark as ReValver MkIII. If it's a sound you like, though, and you're really familiar with it being a part of your workflow, then there's no reason to ditch it just because someone on the internet said it's crap.

Question, would you also argue that the Pod's amp models sound better than the AxeFX unit? I mean, there's only so much processing power to work with there and it has to fit not only the amp modeling but also the variety of effects that are possible (not actual, but possible at once - they have to program their algorithms with the hardware limitations in mind), they have to use a fairly linear model and the result is a fairly compressed sound to my ears. This is less of an issue with high gain models given their inherently high compression, but I don't see how you can argue that Guitar Rig 3 or ReValver MkIII have a sound that isn't impressive compared to the pod. They've just got so much more going on in the depth and complexity of their modeling, it's really a different ballgame completely.

Can you prefer the POD anyway? Well, yeah, of course. But it's odd to me, with a lot of experience with every one of the current modeling utilities except for Rocktron's, that someone would put the pod at the top of the list, given the target market, pricerange, and level of sophistication of its hardware and hence software compared to the higher end products.

I havnt heard or used the AxeFX, but isnt that like a $2000 piece of equipment?

With the sounds, maybe its just because of the sound I want or my particular equipment right now, but I definatly prefer what I can get out of my toneport right now to the clips posted and my own experiences. I was unimpressed with the line6 stuff for high gain until I got the extra packs, as before that my options were really really limited to stuff like the Insane amp model etc, while the metal pack adds in some nice stuff like the Big Bottom or the other real amp models.

Although I think that this might just be that we have different ideas of what kind of high gain sound we want. I'm really aiming for a modern sound, something like what an engl or soldano head would produce (again, think meshuggah/bulb), although at the moment I'm pretty held back by my lovely pickups. When I've listened to your high gain clips they definatly sound good, but its not the kind of tone I'm going for, or one I've been able to get in the VST plugins. I can't get it with the Pod either right now, but its the closest I can get until I buy the real thing.

Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down

I think I get what you're saying. I will say that if you haven't tried Guitar Rig 3, you really ought to - I wrote off Guitar Rig 2 as mediocre and GR3 blew me away. They went back to the drawing board big time. From what you're describing, I think you'd really like the new Ultrasonic model - it's a model of the Bogner Uberschall, and it is heavy as hell. Capable of very modern sounds, though I tend to go with mid-boosted, scratchy-mutes upper-midrange/treble emphasizing high gain sounds these days (if you listened to any of my early clips with my old Randall or others, you can hear I used to be into a more knotched midrange sound that might be what you're talking about).

But at the end of the day, it isn't about the technology involved, or the complexity of algorithms, or anything like that - it's about whether you're pleased with the sound, and it seems like you're really pleased with the sound you're getting right now, so maybe your best move is not to move off of what you've got until you can swing the real deal.

Stux
Nov 17, 2006

Agreed posted:

I think I get what you're saying. I will say that if you haven't tried Guitar Rig 3, you really ought to - I wrote off Guitar Rig 2 as mediocre and GR3 blew me away. They went back to the drawing board big time. From what you're describing, I think you'd really like the new Ultrasonic model - it's a model of the Bogner Uberschall, and it is heavy as hell. Capable of very modern sounds, though I tend to go with mid-boosted, scratchy-mutes upper-midrange/treble emphasizing high gain sounds these days (if you listened to any of my early clips with my old Randall or others, you can hear I used to be into a more knotched midrange sound that might be what you're talking about).

But at the end of the day, it isn't about the technology involved, or the complexity of algorithms, or anything like that - it's about whether you're pleased with the sound, and it seems like you're really pleased with the sound you're getting right now, so maybe your best move is not to move off of what you've got until you can swing the real deal.

I will definitely give it another try if its changed that much, but I will probably stick with the Pod anyway just because of using the same tone recorded and live, but obviously, thats seperate to what we were talking about which was pure tone. Thats until I get an Engl Invader of course :v: Also, thanks to you, I'm going to be trying out some of that IR stuff on my amp models when i record and see if it gets it any closer.

ChristsDickWorship
Dec 7, 2004

Annihilate your demons



Just wanted to put this out there and this is probably the right thread:

I just did a show where the guitar player had a Palmer Guitar DI that he sent me signal from instead of mic'ing his cab and it was absolutely incredible. Its a DI designed to put between a guitar amp and the speaker (which is what he was doing with a 50W amp, running the tone control on the DI at normal) or it can be used at line level coming straight out of your FX chain, and everyone involved tonight got loads of compliments on the guitar sound. I'm pretty sure one of the other bands on the bill are planning on buying them ASAP after hearing the set.

And all I did was leave the preamp on the console at 0 gain, was getting a perfect -6 to -12dB signal and I pretty much left the EQ flat (cut a little low-mid because they were muddy in the room) and brought up the fader. He has an all analog pedalboard and I think it was an Orange combo amp (but it was red... I know he used to play an Orange). It's not impossible to gently caress up for a total idiot soundguy, but if you play out a lot I highly recommend it for ease, and this guitar player records with it as well in his basement. It eliminates all bleed problems from a muddy, boxy stage as well.

In a bigger show (like 1000 ppl) I personally would have wanted a mic in addition to the DI probably, just for some options, but this was a 200cap room. This guy records and produces most of their stuff in his basement now and I'm pretty sure he mostly uses the Palmer. Myspace-encoded tracks here. The first one I know he used only the Palmer on, but they did that (with the singer playing drums) at rehearsal the other day or something. The next 2 were on their last album and I'm pretty sure it's mostly the Palmer. The others are older and were done in a studio before he had it I think.

Palmer makes a bunch of really expensive rackmounted "analog" speaker modelers. I have no idea how they compare to digital stuff, but after tonight I feel pretty comfortable recommending that DI in place of a microphone for live shows and probably a lot of budget recording setups.

Scarf
Jun 24, 2005

On sight
HALLELUIAH!



I think this thing is going to be released July 7th. Really want to hear this. I bet it sounds nasty on guitar as well with the bass boost.

the wizards beard
Apr 15, 2007
Reppin

4 LIFE 4 REAL

3toes posted:

HALLELUIAH!



I think this thing is going to be released July 7th. Really want to hear this. I bet it sounds nasty on guitar as well with the bass boost.

Wonder if bass players will have to pay more. The DIY/booteek guys have been tinkering with these out for years, its cool Ehx are doing one now.

Tuna, the Muse
Mar 28, 2003
You're a one-man death machine, now make this city bleed.
I'm looking to start buying some pedals, but I really don't have a clue about most of them. I've been using a bass distortion pedal I borrowed from my friend on my guitar and it's pretty fun to mess around with. I think I'm going to start with a simple distortion pedal and move on from there. I can get a used Boss DS-1 for less than $40 Canadian. Online reviews seem to be pretty positive. Any reason why I shouldn't get this one?

I'm looking to spend as little as possible while still getting some decent gear that'll last me a while. What are generally considered the best pedals for the lowest price? If possible I'd like to know some good-but-cheap reverb, delay and whatnot too for when I'm ready to delve deeper into the pedal business without getting ripped off.

an AOL chatroom
Oct 3, 2002

Tuna, the Muse posted:

I'm looking to start buying some pedals, but I really don't have a clue about most of them. I've been using a bass distortion pedal I borrowed from my friend on my guitar and it's pretty fun to mess around with. I think I'm going to start with a simple distortion pedal and move on from there. I can get a used Boss DS-1 for less than $40 Canadian. Online reviews seem to be pretty positive. Any reason why I shouldn't get this one?

I'm looking to spend as little as possible while still getting some decent gear that'll last me a while. What are generally considered the best pedals for the lowest price? If possible I'd like to know some good-but-cheap reverb, delay and whatnot too for when I'm ready to delve deeper into the pedal business without getting ripped off.

It really depends what you're expecting and what kind of sound you want. Also, to a large extent, what kind of equipment you're playing through. If you've got a 15 watt 8 inch solid state amp, you're going to get much more bang for your buck by upgrading that.

That said... make sure that it's a distortion pedal you want and not an overdrive. Another pedal that's similarly priced that always gets rave reviews is the Bad Monkey by digitech. There's also the DOD 250 (or pretty much identical and sometimes cheaper YJM308), which I have found to be far more versatile than the DS-1. If you've got a music store near you, try them out or ask for a demo. There are also lots of pedal demos on YouTube. Online reviews of pedals tend to be poo poo because everyone is trying to justify their purchase by saying how great it is and how it makes their amp sound better than their friend's $5000 Marchall Tripel Rec, etc.

Danelectro makes good pedals really cheap and they get recommended here a lot. Boss, ElectroHarmonix, Ibanez, MXR... all good stuff. I've never used Behringer pedals before, but they sure don't look like they'd last too long in any sort of real-life outside-of-the-bedroom environment.

Stabbing Spork
Apr 9, 2006
the Wasabi Overdrive is $49.99 now (not $20 like last time), if you can find a friend in the states to ship it to, and then have them ship it to you you'll be all set. Last time it went for this price lots of people jumped on the deal. It's not an distortion, but a boost/overdrive pedal, but it is really really good. gogogogogo
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Danelectro-Wasabi-Overdrive-Pedal?sku=151909

edit: can't remember prices

Stabbing Spork fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Jul 2, 2008

the wizards beard
Apr 15, 2007
Reppin

4 LIFE 4 REAL
It was :20bux: last time.

gotly
Oct 28, 2007
Economy-Sized

Stabbing Spork posted:

the Wasabi Overdrive is $49.99 again, if you can find a friend in the states to ship it to, and then have them ship it to you you'll be all set. Last time it went for this price lots of people jumped on the deal. It's not an distortion, but a boost/overdrive pedal, but it is really really good. gogogogogo
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Danelectro-Wasabi-Overdrive-Pedal?sku=151909

Done and done. Thanks a lot. Still kicking myself for not jumping on the $20 deal but this hurts a lot less than $130.

Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down

the wizards beard, it's been at different times $20, $25, and $29.

I HIGHLY recommend the Wasabi OD, I have two and I'm thinking about picking up another this time too. There are a ton of great OD tones in it. Lately, I'm loving it with the gain right before noon and the mix 60%dirt/40%clean - very sparkly, warm sounds, fattens up the neck pickup without getting dirty and you can get some grit with the bridge.

Shartjorts
Mar 17, 2007

by Fistgrrl

3toes posted:

HALLELUIAH!



I think this thing is going to be released July 7th. Really want to hear this. I bet it sounds nasty on guitar as well with the bass boost.

I just picked up a Little Big Muff and they come out with that. :arghfist: drat you EH.

Tuna, the Muse
Mar 28, 2003
You're a one-man death machine, now make this city bleed.
Would it still be a good deal if I got the pedal from eBay for $48 Canadian and shipping of $22? Is there a cheaper place that would ship to Canada? I'm not very well versed in ordering online.

Edit: The Wasabi is the pedal in question.

Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down

Tuna, the Muse posted:

Would it still be a good deal if I got the pedal from eBay for $48 Canadian and shipping of $22? Is there a cheaper place that would ship to Canada? I'm not very well versed in ordering online.

Edit: The Wasabi is the pedal in question.

It's all about the frame of reference.

Compared to paying $20 for it with free shipping thanks to an MF coupon, like I did, that's a crappy deal. However, compared to paying $130 for it, you're still getting a good deal (though I think Musiciansfriend's current "Clearance" price on them is $90 all the time, with sales like this occasionally). But if I were you, I'd hold out for a private purchase rather than getting it via an auction site or an online store, because someone who bought it for $20 or $30 isn't going to be so adamant on getting $60+ out of it as someone who paid the full price. Have you posted any WTB's?

I will say this - if I knew how good the Wasabi is, and the only way you could get them was at full price, I would buy it without hesitation if I needed an OD pedal. However, having bought two of them for $20 a piece, and received a similarly good deal on the Wasabi Distortion AND Wasabi Chorus Tremolo, I tend instead towards hunting out the deal. Kind of screwed up, I guess... I'm just too used to getting a bargain on Wasabis, even though they were designed to compete with products in the $100+ price range and do so admirably. I don't need any other OD pedals, except for the Aramat Green Machine tubescreamer-type overdrive that's in the mail. And the Wasabi even does a pretty damned impressive Tubescreamer voicing on its second EQ setting, but the clipping isn't the same as the TS's...

If you don't think you'll see a deal like that soon, then go ahead and hop on that for ~$60. It's an extremely capable pedal with features you will only appreciate more and more as you work with it to learn its capabilities. There is a whole world of low-gain tones in that pedal.

Prof Eli ASSBLASTER
May 30, 2007

by Fragmaster
one thing I've never quite understood- what exactly is the difference between overdrive and distortion?

Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down

Prof Eli ASSBLASTER posted:

one thing I've never quite understood- what exactly is the difference between overdrive and distortion?

A difference of degree rather than kind. They are both technically distortion in that they distort the signal. However, overdrive preserves more of the original waveform and is soft clipping - that is, it amplifies the signal less, and clips it less sharply, resulting in waveforms that are still recognizable as the original, pre-overdriven waveform. A sine wave still looks like a sine wave.

Distortion (and fuzz, as well) tends to amplify much more, and as a result clip harder. Depending on exactly how much clipping occurs, sine waves begin to resemble square waves.

As you amplify the signal without increasing the period, the crest and valley of the wave become much, much steeper. I'll see if I can find a picture... one moment.

Got it.



As you can see, soft clipping (overdrive) compresses the signal somewhat near its extremes, but the sine wave still looks like a sine wave. Hard clipping "cuts" the waveform off at its extremes. The resulting change in harmonic content produces different sounding results, with overdrive tending towards a sweetening addition of the first upper harmonics and an evening-out of volume response from the natural compression involved, and distortion being a more aggressively compressed sound with much more harmonic distortion content. Fuzz is like distortion in this way - some fuzzes are so over-the-top that they might as well be square wave generators. As you add distortion to the signal, depending on the type of circuit you change the balance of even and odd harmonics, and you can also start to get noticeable intermodulation distortion, which adds the upper harmonic of the sum of the waveforms (resulting in a note that may not be harmonically related to the fundamentals). This is why rock has evolved so much around the use of power chords - with two notes' frequencies summed, the result is a pleasing intermodulate distortion, but with more complex chords you start to get some pretty ugly beats and a poor sound. This is a bit of a generalization, however.

The practical difference to the gigging guitarist is that overdrive is low-gain but adds a little bit of grit to your signal, fattens it and also adds sparkle to your tone (sparkle being the result of prominent second harmonics being generated); distortion, on the other hand, is hard-edged and powerful, but of course less dynamic by its very nature since so much compression occurs in the hard clipping involved. Distortion and fuzz are also more likely to compromise the sound of complex chords, but of course nearly everyone loves the singing, endlessly-sustaining leads that can be had in trade.

Agreed fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jul 5, 2008

gotly
Oct 28, 2007
Economy-Sized

Prof Eli ASSBLASTER posted:

one thing I've never quite understood- what exactly is the difference between overdrive and distortion?

Nirvana, Green Day, Tool, Iron Maiden - distortion.

Zeppelin, (some) Clapton (Layla), Hendrix, - overdrive.

Agreed is right, overdrive makes the signal dirty, distortion completely changes the sound. "Overdriving" refers to pushing the tubes of an amp past their clean level.

dissin department
Apr 7, 2007

"I has music dysleskia."
If I want an overdrive pedal to add a little bit of dirt to my bass tone...what would be a good choice?

Prof Eli ASSBLASTER
May 30, 2007

by Fragmaster

Agreed posted:



Thanks, that explains a lot.

Tuna, the Muse
Mar 28, 2003
You're a one-man death machine, now make this city bleed.
Does anybody have both the Wasabi distortion and overdrive? I'm probably going to give in and order one of them today, but I want to make sure I know what I'm getting myself into. Can someone maybe put up some demos, or point me in the direction of some demos? I couldn't find anything on Youtube and I haven't a clue where else to look.

plester1
Jul 9, 2004





Tehdude posted:

If I want an overdrive pedal to add a little bit of dirt to my bass tone...what would be a good choice?

I highly recommend the DOD 250 Overdrive for bass. There's a cheap reissue out now for only $40.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/DOD-Overdrive-Preamp250-Reissue-Pedal?sku=150070&src=3WFRWXX&ZYXSEM=0&CAWELAID=26018232

an AOL chatroom
Oct 3, 2002

plester1 posted:

I highly recommend the DOD 250 Overdrive for bass. There's a cheap reissue out now for only $40.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/DOD-Overdrive-Preamp250-Reissue-Pedal?sku=150070&src=3WFRWXX&ZYXSEM=0&CAWELAID=26018232

I dunno how they sound with a bass, but I'm a big fan of the 250 for guitar. Just know that they don't have an LED and the power jack is the headphone-style, not the Boss barrel-style.

Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down

Tuna, the Muse posted:

Does anybody have both the Wasabi distortion and overdrive? I'm probably going to give in and order one of them today, but I want to make sure I know what I'm getting myself into. Can someone maybe put up some demos, or point me in the direction of some demos? I couldn't find anything on Youtube and I haven't a clue where else to look.

I can do this, yes. It'll be a day or two. The Overdrive is a pedal nearly anyone would love, the distortion is a bit more finnicky. They make a good team. The distortion is a bit like the Marshall TSL, very high gain with a bit of fizz and rather dry besides. You have to really get the EQ settings to make your sound come out of it, and the overdrive up front is very helpful in getting the distortion to have not just a lot of gain, but also good sustain.

Although my dad just called and told me my package from Aramat is in, so I'm going to be pretty busy with the head-exploding awesomeness of three boutique dirts in one afternoon.

:q:

I'll get around to it though.

Edit: Lame. It was some DVDs I forgot I ordered from Newegg. Great, now I can backup my drive, too bad about the lack of awesome things to plug into my amp.

I'll get around to the Wasabi OD&Dist sooner than I thought.

Agreed fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Jul 8, 2008

Tuna, the Muse
Mar 28, 2003
You're a one-man death machine, now make this city bleed.
Great, thanks.

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im_sorry
Jan 15, 2006

(9999)
Ultra Carp
What's the general opinion on the Digitech Bad Monkey? I bought one, and it makes the lead channel settings of my Peavey Envoy 110 sound really awesome (at least, to my inexperienced self), but I was wondering how it compared to things like the Wasabi.

Also, is there much of a difference between the different feedback loop pedals? It seems like the Audible Disease Rupture, Total Sonic Annihilation, and Devi Ever's Eye of God do pretty much the same thing. I'm thinking of getting one eventually.

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