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Frankly, I think TV is one of those rare mediums that has its business model exactly right, and I think it's foolish to expect more participation from the viewer. It's true that a hardcore nerd like the kind of person posting in this thread would gladly follow a show like Firefly on DVD. Contrary to your belief though, people like that are not so commonplace, and certainly not enough to keep a DVD-Only franchise alive. Serenity's sales numbers are a result of it being a single DVD, and of lots of people hoping that buying it would get the show back on TV. TV only works and is profitable because it requires almost 0 effort on the part of the viewer. You must merely own a television, know what time your show is on, and be willing to sit through a few ads that pay for the show. If it's a cable show, add the single extra step of paying your cable bill. In your proposed a la carte DVD show system, a viewer would first have to hear about a show, find where it is sold, purchase a copy, and pray they like it. If they like it, they will then have to keep track of new releases and where to get them, possibly waiting for discs to ship or episodes to download. Or maybe stream in crappy quality. They must also pay each time they view, and you should know that reaching for the wallet is negative reinforcement for everyone. Repeat all these steps for every show they wish to follow. I own over $2000 worth of DVDs and I wouldn't go to that kind of effort to watch a TV show, and I don't think your average viewer would either when there's plenty of easier to watch programming on regular TV. If you need an illustration, look at the anime released in the US. It's all straight to DVD, and US-side anime distributors without TV deals either run on the raggedy edge and make crap releases, or go out of business all the time. Only companies like Funimation, who get their poo poo on Cartoon Network, last. Another example is the comics industry, where the a la carte format just barely works for them, and they depend on huge movie licenses to keep their pockets full. You can't depend on the nerd audience to keep something like "Firefly straight to DVD" afloat, because a show like firefly costs millions of dollars an episode to make even without all the awesome CG, and there's frankly no way there's enough "browncoats" out there to finance such a thing all on their own. As much as we may groan about Fox execs, they cancelled the show for a reason: it made less money than it spent. Do you really think putting it on DVD will change that? edit: I didn't mean to turn that into an essay. I just had it in the back of my head at work today, so don't take offense or anything.
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Jan 11, 2009 09:01
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mobn posted:As much as we may groan about Fox execs, they cancelled the show for a reason: it made less money than it spent. and it made less money because no-one watched it. and no-one watched it because of the terribly clueless advertising, and the fact that it was on at a different time every week. and they opened with one of the worst episodes and followed it up with the unqualified worst. 12 lines is not an essay. What the gently caress is up with Americans who apologise for discussing things at "length" on a discussion forum? You don't catch anyone else doing it. Literacy is not a crime.
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Jan 11, 2009 10:35
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Psimitry posted:I would have gladly paid.. maybe not FIFTY, but certainly 30-40 upon watching the pilot of "Pushing Daisies." Now, admittedly that is an exception, but it's not impossible that there would have been others. I hear people like Fringe, but I watched the pilot and hated it. Same with Sarah Connor Chronicles. I'll eventually Netflix or Hulu these shows, but if I had to put cashey money down to check out what happened next, I never would. Mike Toole posted:OVA is just fancy nerd-speak for direct-to-video (DTV) stuff. We do plenty of that here in North America, too. Just less often with crummy cartoons. Stonefish posted:12 lines is not an essay. What the gently caress is up with Americans who apologise for discussing things at "length" on a discussion forum? You don't catch anyone else doing it. Literacy is not a crime. It's not an American thing.
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Jan 11, 2009 14:46
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Perhaps not, but every damned time I see someone apologising for writing more than 130 words, I'm completely dumbfounded. Why would you do this? >90% of the time, they do happen to be from the states. the other <10% they're unspecified. I can't help but read something into that.
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Jan 11, 2009 16:37
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Stonefish posted:and it made less money because no-one watched it. and no-one watched it because of the terribly clueless advertising, and the fact that it was on at a different time every week. and they opened with one of the worst episodes and followed it up with the unqualified worst. In the context of a forum post that is an essay, and clueless advertising aside, Fox still sank half a season into it before giving up. That's a lot more time than many, many other shows get to pick up ratings. Do you really think that a straight to DVD series would do any better? No TV station is going to advertise a product that competes with them, which leaves the internet, and how do you target something like that on the internet?
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Jan 11, 2009 21:11
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drat I was one day late on that Angel deal, now it's double it's price. Is Buffy Season 8 worth getting? I am not much of a graphic novel person.
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Jan 12, 2009 02:59
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mobn posted:Do you really think that a straight to DVD series would do any better? No, that was the other guy. My understanding is that on it's first airing, Firely never showed up before 11pm, and sometimes well after that. and Bushwhacked came up second, which wouldn't be enough to convince anyone to stick around. We'll never know for sure, but I suspect it would have done a fair bit better if it were given a fair go. The way it was treated, I'm shocked it got as far as it did. (Which is to say, it got hosed over completely, and STILL was awesome enough to get a movie deal)
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Jan 12, 2009 03:33
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JirotheHero posted:drat I was one day late on that Angel deal, now it's double it's price. I have really been enjoying it. But then again I'm a comic nerd. Local shop says it's one of their best sellers.
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Jan 13, 2009 12:21
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JirotheHero posted:Is Buffy Season 8 worth getting? I am not much of a graphic novel person. I'd say so. It's the only comic I buy each issue of monthly, a lot of fun.
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Jan 13, 2009 12:38
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JirotheHero posted:Is Buffy Season 8 worth getting? I am not much of a graphic novel person.
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Jan 13, 2009 14:17
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ShardPhoenix posted:I'm not a huge comics reader and I've been enjoying it - it's quite a lot like the show aside from the slower pace of new material coming out, but it makes up for that with the ability to do stuff that would have been outside the show's budget. I disagree. The comics are quite a bit more fantastical than the show, and I think they suffer in the relatability and emotional impact departments because of it. It's nothing like the show that made me cry when Joyce died. It's a slightly above average comic book that happens to use Buffy as back story.
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Jan 13, 2009 16:04
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mobn posted:It's nothing like the show that made me cry when Joyce died. I guess it doesn't have that cosy feeling of the earlier seasons of Buffy, but I feel like the increased scope of the story is a natural extension of season 7, and I've been enjoying that aspect of the comics. I could understand someone wishing for something more small-town though. ShardPhoenix fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Jan 13, 2009 |
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Jan 13, 2009 17:05
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Well they've only brought back every character that didn't die, and at least one that did. In the space of one "season", or about as much dialogue as two TV episodes. If they can get over that (like Futurama did), they might get on to actually telling some nice small-scale stories.
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Jan 13, 2009 17:58
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mobn posted:I disagree. The comics are quite a bit more fantastical than the show, and I think they suffer in the relatability and emotional impact departments because of it. It's nothing like the show that made me cry when Joyce died. It's a slightly above average comic book that happens to use Buffy as back story. The episode where Joyce died was probably their most technically perfect episode, even though it had very little of the fantastical elements in it. I have never seen a single episode that so perfectly encapsulated a real-life feeling before. And this is coming from someone who was rooting for Joyce to die from Season 3 on. I haaaaated her.
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Jan 13, 2009 18:31
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Stonefish posted:Well they've only brought back every character that didn't die, and at least one that did. In the space of one "season", or about as much dialogue as two TV episodes. If they can get over that (like Futurama did), they might get on to actually telling some nice small-scale stories. Well bringing back Dracula was awesome since they got to explain what makes him different from other vamps plus we got to learn that he's totally gay for Xander.
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Jan 14, 2009 01:33
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Gassire posted:Well bringing back Dracula was awesome since they got to explain what makes him different from other vamps plus we got to learn that he's totally gay for Xander. What does make Dracula different? All I remember is: Flashy gypsy tricks.
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Jan 14, 2009 02:52
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Stonefish posted:In the space of one "season", or about as much dialogue as two TV episodes.
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Jan 14, 2009 09:54
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ShardPhoenix posted:Neither are the other 143 episodes of Buffy. I think it's pretty unfair to compare the comics to the best of the best Buffy episodes. The average comic arc so far has been at least as good as the average episode of the show, imo. Of course it would be even nicer to have new, high budget episodes with similar writing, because there *are* some things that are more dramatic when acted out in live action than when read on the page, but unfortunately we can't have that. Every single episode of Buffy pushed forward some character's emotional arc in some way, though, and the interactions between characters was very complex. When I read the comics I feel like I'm reading all the trademark snappy Buffy action hero dialogue, and none of the compelling Buffy "life isn't all rainbows" that made the show addictive. I just can't enjoy "Oh, we have a castle in scotland now and and army and laser guns and a unicorn". I have any number of comics that have always been comics for that. When I want "official" Buffy, I want Buffy as it was for 7 seasons, not adapted for the page.
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Jan 14, 2009 13:39
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mobn posted:Every single episode of Buffy pushed forward some character's emotional arc in some way, though, and the interactions between characters was very complex. When I read the comics I feel like I'm reading all the trademark snappy Buffy action hero dialogue, and none of the compelling Buffy "life isn't all rainbows" that made the show addictive. I just can't enjoy "Oh, we have a castle in scotland now and and army and laser guns and a unicorn". I have any number of comics that have always been comics for that. When I want "official" Buffy, I want Buffy as it was for 7 seasons, not adapted for the page.  .
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Jan 14, 2009 15:37
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ShardPhoenix posted:I'm not sure what you've been reading if you think the comics are all sunshine and rainbows and snappy dialogue and no drama or emotional development I gave up when they first got to tokyo and giant dawn monster provides a diversion. It was just too hokey.
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Jan 14, 2009 16:40
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mobn posted:I gave up when they first got to tokyo and giant dawn monster provides a diversion. It was just too hokey.
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Jan 14, 2009 17:59
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Zombie Dictator posted:So who here actually owns the Dr. Horrible DVD? I'm very tempted to order it, but I've read that in some cases the DVD is some ghetto purple-bottomed DVD-R, and in some cases it is a silver-bottomed silk-screened artwork pretty professional job. Mike Toole posted:Mostly I just wish this dude would figure out how to make something as good as Firefly. I couldn't get behind Buffy and I don't see any promise in Dollhouse, but I liked Firefly just fine. I also think Dr. Horrible is quite possibly the best 45 minutes ever put to film, so there you go. JirotheHero posted:Is Buffy Season 8 worth getting? I am not much of a graphic novel person. If you haven't already, you should try picking up Fray or Tales of the Vampires. Both avoid using cast characters, for the most part, but are pretty drat good side-stories. Nupraptor fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Jan 15, 2009 |
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Jan 14, 2009 20:58
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Nupraptor posted:My main complaint about Season 8 is the pace. Some of the arcs are merely average, and I hate having to wait months for them to be over. I would have preferred more of a 1 issue = 1 episode approach, and save the multi-issue arcs for the really epic stuff. I'd say you should wait until they finish the "season", and then pick up the TPBs for the better arcs. I would have issues with the one issue/one episode thing. I feel like that would rush the story far too much. Sure, it's a pain in the rear end to wait so long between issues, but I would rather have a more detailed story rather than having each issue wrap up cleanly. I second picking up Fray, though. It was a great story that works within the shows mythos, but has a whole new cast of faces.
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Jan 15, 2009 00:39
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I just finished "Angel." It's really terrible that it was canceled when it was. Season five seemed to be building to a load of awesome, then the last two episodes, while pretty cool, built a very abrupt ending. Also, what the Hell was up with "The Girl in Question?" Some of it was funny, but most of it seemed really out-of-character for pretty much everyone, especially Angelus and William the Bloody. The '50s Italy cutaway made it worthwhile, though.
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Jan 17, 2009 07:24
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The Girl In Question is a complete load of poo poo, and quite possibly the worst episode of Angel. Which is 50% redeemed by a single line in Buffy season 8.
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Jan 17, 2009 08:14
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Stonefish posted:The Girl In Question is a complete load of poo poo, and quite possibly the worst episode of Angel. Ahem. "She" would like a word with you.
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Jan 17, 2009 08:36
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Gordon Shumway posted:Ahem. "She" would like a word with you. Angel dancing, and Angel and Spike on a faggio. What the hell is wrong with you people? That poo poo rules.
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Jan 17, 2009 08:50
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Gordon Shumway posted:Ahem. "She" would like a word with you. What? Angel dancing was done really loving well back in season 1 or 2.
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Jan 17, 2009 09:18
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Stonefish posted:What? In the episode "She"
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Jan 17, 2009 10:04
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Right, I'm on top of this conversation now. "She" might have starred some Star Trek forehead reject, but the dancing was probably the best joke on the whole show. Additionally: Angel posted:Also, Bodeliere is a little taller and a lot drunker than he's depicted here
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Jan 17, 2009 12:39
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mobn posted:I gave up when they first got to tokyo and giant dawn monster provides a diversion. It was just too hokey.
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Jan 17, 2009 13:28
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psimitry posted:For me it was two things: 1. If I'm not mistaken, it ran with Fast Lane, and I was going to be raped by a donkey if I was going to watch something from the creators of "The Fast and the Furious." Actually, it was replaced by Fast Lane. It aired at 8:00 on Friday, and John Doe aired at 9:00. I watched John Doe for a whole season, but it also got canceled just when it was getting really good. Firefly, I gave up on after a couple eps, and am only now watching for the first time. A lot of that was probably the misordered episodes, and the bizarre ads. They made it look like nothing more than a live action Outlaw Star- which I guess I would have liked. But they also showed River waking up in the box in the commercials. Since they skipped the pilot, I kept waiting for the "girl in the box" to show up, not realizing she was already there. So, yeah, screwed by the network.
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Jan 17, 2009 16:33
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Gordon Shumway posted:Ahem. "She" would like a word with you. "She" is not that bad. I actually like it. I HATED TGIQ at the time of airing. I mean, worst Angel episode ever. I have since had a change of heart about it, and find it's a pretty funny episode. I still think the placement of the episode is terrible - it's the third to the last episode ever, and right before the final two in which the final plot is quickly shoehorned. They could have used this 3rd to last episode to build upon that final plot rather than some comedy stand alone. It is really funny though. Gypsies! <SPITS> We shall speak of them no more! Oh yeah, still hate the truly hosed up plotting of Andrew giving advice to the Vamp Brothers; sure, they're a combined 400 years old, but lets hear what the 21 year old sperger thinks about romance. Egads!
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Jan 17, 2009 17:43
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redshirt posted:I HATED TGIQ at the time of airing. I mean, worst Angel episode ever. I have since had a change of heart about it, and find it's a pretty funny episode. I still think the placement of the episode is terrible - it's the third to the last episode ever, and right before the final two in which the final plot is quickly shoehorned. They could have used this 3rd to last episode to build upon that final plot rather than some comedy stand alone. Yeah, TGIQ wouldn't have been grating if it happened sometime in the first half of the season. It's got some pretty drat funny bits to it. And if Andrew had just loving died in Buffy, but that's neither here nor there.
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Jan 17, 2009 17:51
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A Big Dark Yak posted:Yeah, TGIQ wouldn't have been grating if it happened sometime in the first half of the season. It's got some pretty drat funny bits to it. That was my other big qualm with it (aside from Angelus and William being severely out-of-character). The placement was absolutely awful. Am I the only one who always got a kick out of Andrew? He never really bothered me too much, and he was annoying in a pretty funny way. I also loved his tale of Faith fighting Spock.
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Jan 17, 2009 18:51
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egon_beeblebrox posted:Am I the only one who always got a kick out of Andrew? He never really bothered me too much, and he was annoying in a pretty funny way. I also loved his tale of Faith fighting Spock.
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Jan 17, 2009 18:55
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egon_beeblebrox posted:I also loved his tale of Faith fighting Spock. The one and only fleeting moment when I enjoyed Andrew...
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Jan 17, 2009 19:22
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egon_beeblebrox posted:That was my other big qualm with it (aside from Angelus and William being severely out-of-character). The placement was absolutely awful. How were they out of character in TGIQ?
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Jan 17, 2009 19:55
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mobn posted:How were they out of character in TGIQ? They were played way too lightly and really didn't seem like a threat of any sort. This may have been the point of the episode, but it really didn't mesh with their portrayals anywhere else.
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Jan 17, 2009 22:57
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egon_beeblebrox posted:They were played way too lightly and really didn't seem like a threat of any sort. This may have been the point of the episode, but it really didn't mesh with their portrayals anywhere else. Spike and Angel (and Boreanaz and Marsters?) together just naturally brighten up each other's characters. Even before season 5 the Spike/Angel episodes were usually half-farce. Alone they're brooding and serious, but I don't think they were out of character in that episode.
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Jan 18, 2009 00:51
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