The Order of the Stick: T-Rex, Troll Sex and Will Checks

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > The Order of the Stick: T-Rex, Troll Sex and Will Checks

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Cabbit: Jul 19, 2001; _{Is that everything you have?}

Kleedrac posted:

I find that completely unbelievable .... like people play GURPS :P

GURPS is played, just head over to the Traditional Games subforum if you want proof. Whether or not people play it, that's up for debate!

# ? Jan 18, 2009 02:11

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# ? May 13, 2024 18:28

ZorbaTHut: May 5, 2005; wake me when the world is saved

seaborgium posted:

I think it's just a different way he's taking the character. V apparently has some drat good reasons for the way he's acting, even if what he's doing is bordering on evil. Belkar is the comic relief, V is not. This comic actually helps to explain a whole lot about why he's having so many problems with not having enough magical power. I don't think it's lackluster at all.

Yeah, now I actually kind of feel sorry for him. Her. It. Whatever.

We knew invisibility was her last spell, and she would have been absolutely helpless if she'd dropped it, so doing anything else would have just resulted in her being slaughtered, but . . . man, that can't be fun.

# ? Jan 19, 2009 02:17

CapnAndy: Feb 27, 2004; Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Robot Bastard posted:

Huh. Some interesting Alignment shifts going on here. Belkar moving to Lawful Evil, V moving to Neutral Good...

I am going to facepunch the next person who watches Chaotic Good Shojo give a lesson to Chaotic Evil Belkar about how to break more rules without getting caught and thinks "wow, Belkar's Lawful now", I swear to God I am.

Nothing personal, you understand.

# ? Jan 19, 2009 03:58

Robot Bastard: Jul 14, 2004; by Ozma

Right, because nobody in a D&D campaign ever changes alignment. Ever. Not even after they have a near-death experience brought on by a magical curse, and had an out-of-body visionary hallucination.

I mean--let's just look at the fundamental definitions, here. Belkar used to be "kill everything that's not an ally and then take all the loot". Now he's making plans. He's thinking about how if he's careful and he waits, he can kill even MORE people and get even MORE loot. Isn't that how Lawful Evil is supposed to work? You say "break rules without getting caught" as though it were Chaotic Evil, but it isn't. Why would CE care about getting caught?

Or are we just supposed to let PCs do whatever and ignore their alignment completely?

# ? Jan 19, 2009 07:10

Idran: Jan 13, 2005; Grimey Drawer

Robot Bastard posted:

Right, because nobody in a D&D campaign ever changes alignment. Ever. Not even after they have a near-death experience brought on by a magical curse, and had an out-of-body visionary hallucination.

I mean--let's just look at the fundamental definitions, here. Belkar used to be "kill everything that's not an ally and then take all the loot". Now he's making plans. He's thinking about how if he's careful and he waits, he can kill even MORE people and get even MORE loot. Isn't that how Lawful Evil is supposed to work? You say "break rules without getting caught" as though it were Chaotic Evil, but it isn't. Why would CE care about getting caught?

Or are we just supposed to let PCs do whatever and ignore their alignment completely?

No, Lawful Evil isn't about breaking rules, it's about gaming the system to make the rules work for you. Staying in the letter while going outside the spirit. Exploiting loopholes. Even changing the system to give you the best advantage, but not actually going against the system. Breaking rules is like the complete opposite of Lawful, and it doesn't have to do with getting caught or not. Breaking rules with or without getting caught is Chaotic, and following rules with or without getting caught is Lawful.

# ? Jan 19, 2009 07:33

Gally: May 31, 2001; Come on!

ZorbaTHut posted:

Yeah, now I actually kind of feel sorry for him. Her. It. Whatever.

We knew invisibility was her last spell, and she would have been absolutely helpless if she'd dropped it, so doing anything else would have just resulted in her being slaughtered, but . . . man, that can't be fun.

Same. Poor V, she's always been my favorite character.

# ? Jan 19, 2009 08:23

Cabbit: Jul 19, 2001; _{Is that everything you have?}

Robot Bastard posted:

Right, because nobody in a D&D campaign ever changes alignment. Ever. Not even after they have a near-death experience brought on by a magical curse, and had an out-of-body visionary hallucination.

I mean--let's just look at the fundamental definitions, here. Belkar used to be "kill everything that's not an ally and then take all the loot". Now he's making plans. He's thinking about how if he's careful and he waits, he can kill even MORE people and get even MORE loot. Isn't that how Lawful Evil is supposed to work? You say "break rules without getting caught" as though it were Chaotic Evil, but it isn't. Why would CE care about getting caught?

Or are we just supposed to let PCs do whatever and ignore their alignment completely?

Neutral Evil is "break the rules without getting caught, when it works best to my advantage". Lawful Evil is "don't break the rules; work within the rules and use them to elevate myself". Chaotic evil is just "break the rules".

# ? Jan 19, 2009 08:45

Sergeant Rock: Apr 28, 2002; "... call the expert at kissing and stuff..."

OH GOD THE ALIGNMENT ARGUMENT.

# ? Jan 19, 2009 12:39

rocketrobot: Jul 11, 2003

I'm of the opinion that Belkar finally just put a point or two into Intelligence.

# ? Jan 19, 2009 13:53

CapnAndy: Feb 27, 2004; Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

terminal mehmet posted:

I'm of the opinion that Belkar finally just put a point or two into Intelligence.

I think he's been pulling some rather Good acts lately, and there's an alignment for people who do both Good and Evil things, but that's arguable.

Which, y'know, we've got three weeks or so before a new comic comes out and V being a whiny insomniac was boring before and continues to be so, so... yeah. We got time.

# ? Jan 19, 2009 16:16

Mylan 2: Jan 16, 2009; Losing passwords since '08

CapnAndy posted:

I think he's been pulling some rather Good acts lately, and there's an alignment for people who do both Good and Evil things, but that's arguable.

Perhaps. I doubt he'll give up his love of killing and start caring about the feelings of others, but I could see him at least endearing himself to the rest of the party, so that his upcoming "final breath" will actually have an effect on them other than "Belkar's dead. That's one less thing to worry about." I could see him setting up some situation where his death looks like he's sacrificed himself nobly for the good of the cause, but in reality he had hosed everyone over on a grand scale. Then his ghost laughs his rear end off at the saps mourning his "tragic loss," never knowing half of the poo poo he had done to make their lives miserable.

# ? Jan 20, 2009 00:22

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Sergeant Rock posted:

OH GOD THE ALIGNMENT ARGUMENT.

Seriously, I'm getting flashbacks to Miko here. Let's just agree that the alignment system is somewhat hamfisted when it comes to character development/growth. Its not exactly an exact scientist that you're consulting charts on, you're basically pulling it out of your asses.

# ? Jan 20, 2009 19:07

tripwood: Jul 21, 2003; "Cuno can see you're trying to shit him, but Cuno's unshittable, so fuck does Cuno care?"

Hint: He doesn't care.

But at the same time there are items and spells that affect people and monsters with SPECIFIC alignments so it's important that it is clearly defined.

If you cast Protection against Law, you don't want to argue if a character is lawful or not when he attacks you.

# ? Jan 20, 2009 20:04

Tag Plastic: Jun 10, 2006; Not organic.

Sergeant Rock posted:

OH GOD THE ALIGNMENT ARGUMENT.

I suspect this is exactly the kind of discussion that Belkar is trying to provoke within the context of the strip.

# ? Jan 20, 2009 20:27

mango sentinel: Jan 5, 2001; by sebmojo

Sergeant Rock posted:

OH GOD THE ALIGNMENT ARGUMENT.

At least it's staving off the imminent reoccurence of THE GENDER ARGUMENT.

# ? Jan 20, 2009 20:31

Kahrytes: Jun 4, 2004; Now I need a drink. Not this one. Another one. And in a different place.

Belkar has obviously become Lawful Good.

# ? Jan 20, 2009 20:48

ConfusedUs: Feb 24, 2004; Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!

Kahrytes posted:

Belkar has obviously become Lawful Good.

Impossible. He's no where near as murderously retarded as Miko was.

# ? Jan 20, 2009 21:32

Wolfsheim: Dec 23, 2003; "Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

tripwood posted:

But at the same time there are items and spells that affect people and monsters with SPECIFIC alignments so it's important that it is clearly defined.

If you cast Protection against Law, you don't want to argue if a character is lawful or not when he attacks you.

When it comes up in the comic then I'll start caring. Belkar acting less stupid doesn't shift him from Chaotic Evil to Lawful Evil, it just makes him slightly less stupid. When he decides not to kill everyone he comes across that doesn't turn him immediately Good, or even Neutral, he's just, again, not being so stupid. Its like all or nothing with you guys.

# ? Jan 20, 2009 22:30

SlimGoodbody: Oct 20, 2003

Discussing alignment should be probatable. There, I said it. :colbert:

# ? Jan 20, 2009 23:25

A Big Dark Yak: Dec 28, 2007; It's only the end of the world.

Tag Plastic posted:

I suspect this is exactly the kind of discussion that Belkar is trying to provoke within the context of the strip.

If Belkar's "conversion" prompts the rest of the party to get into a retarded internet-style slapfight about alignment, all as a way for Belkar to sow more chaos in the party while still looking like he's innocently trying to do right, I will buy the drat compilation book with that comic in it, because it would be brilliant.

# ? Jan 20, 2009 23:48

CapnAndy: Feb 27, 2004; Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

A Big Dark Yak posted:

If Belkar's "conversion" prompts the rest of the party to get into a retarded internet-style slapfight about alignment, all as a way for Belkar to sow more chaos in the party while still looking like he's innocently trying to do right, I will buy the drat compilation book with that comic in it, because it would be brilliant.

If Belkar's "conversion" prompts the rest of the party to get into a retarded internet-style slapfight about alignment, I will buy the drat compliation book with that comic in it because the party will finally have been loving reunited.

Anyone remember when the entire party used to show up together in one strip and all talk to each other? Those were good times.

# ? Jan 21, 2009 00:59

Wanderer: Nov 5, 2006; our every move is the new tradition

Robot Bastard posted:

Why would CE care about getting caught?

Because Belkar has a long history within the strip of being thrown in jail, where he cannot do what he likes doing. The change is that he now thinks far enough ahead to avoid being thrown in jail, feeding his desire for murder and mayhem while avoiding the worst of the consequences.

Chaos as an alignment doesn't mean you're stupid or that you can't learn from your mistakes, or every chaotic character on the planet would have burned their hands off on a stove by now. What it does reflect, perhaps most clearly, is an absolute dedication to your personal freedom.

Of course, the real problem is that alignment is an attempt to codify something as fluid as personal morality into an actual system, which means it was doomed to fail from the moment it fell out of somebody's head. As CapnAndy says, though, we got some time to fill up here.

# ? Jan 21, 2009 05:45

A Big Dark Yak: Dec 28, 2007; It's only the end of the world.

CapnAndy posted:

If Belkar's "conversion" prompts the rest of the party to get into a retarded internet-style slapfight about alignment, I will buy the drat compliation book with that comic in it because the party will finally have been loving reunited.

That, too.

# ? Jan 21, 2009 06:29

Plorkyeran: Mar 22, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

# ? Jan 23, 2009 14:05

3 Action Economist: May 22, 2002; Educate. Agitate. Liberate.

Bugsby's Expressive Digit is an awesome spell.

# ? Jan 23, 2009 14:21

Vanadium: Jan 8, 2005

Where V's eyes glowing while he was casting in any strip before this one?

# ? Jan 23, 2009 15:25

Akrabbim: Aug 10, 2003; It means 'scorpion' in Hebrew, and rhymes with 'bakrabbim'. Don't even ask...

Vanadium posted:

Where V's eyes glowing while he was casting in any strip before this one?

I think V's eyes are glowing because he was using "See Invisibility."

# ? Jan 23, 2009 15:32

Vanadium: Jan 8, 2005

Akrabbim posted:

I think V's eyes are glowing because he was using "See Invisibility."

But they are glowing in panel three and four and nine and not inbetween or afterwards. Actually he is not even casting in panel nine, and is casting in panel five and twelve. But still, that is not consistent with see invisibility, is it?

# ? Jan 23, 2009 15:34

Akrabbim: Aug 10, 2003; It means 'scorpion' in Hebrew, and rhymes with 'bakrabbim'. Don't even ask...

Vanadium posted:

But they are glowing in panel three and four and nine and not inbetween or afterwards. Actually he is not even casting in panel nine, and is casting in panel five and twelve. But still, that is not consistent with see invisibility, is it?

Could be the same thing as the whole "invisible sword" thing.

# ? Jan 23, 2009 15:39

Manyorcas: Jun 16, 2007; The person who arrives last is fined, regardless of whether that person's late or not.

Vanadium posted:

But they are glowing in panel three and four and nine and not inbetween or afterwards. Actually he is not even casting in panel nine, and is casting in panel five and twelve. But still, that is not consistent with see invisibility, is it?

I think the eyes in panel nine were just for intimidation, no magical benefit. Imp stopped being invisible after panel four I think.

# ? Jan 23, 2009 17:28

seaborgium: Aug 1, 2002; "Nothing a shitload of bleach won't fix"

Vanadium posted:

But they are glowing in panel three and four and nine and not inbetween or afterwards. Actually he is not even casting in panel nine, and is casting in panel five and twelve. But still, that is not consistent with see invisibility, is it?

It lasts for a while, depending on caster level. It doesn't replace normal vision, just lets you see invisible things. He could still be seeing invisible things if they were there, there's just nothing invisible there for it to work on anymore.

# ? Jan 23, 2009 19:59

Message: Jul 17, 2007; I have the best taste in this whole damn place

S/he's got them here as well, so it's probably more of a pissed off-thing. Although s/he seems about to cast a spell as well, so who knows?

Click here for the full 711x933 image.

# ? Jan 24, 2009 13:34

Pope Guilty: Nov 6, 2006; The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.

Noia posted:

S/he's got them here as well, so it's probably more of a pissed off-thing. Although s/he seems about to cast a spell as well, so who knows?

Click here for the full 711x933 image.

That's also post-batshit V. Does it ever happen before V loses it?

# ? Jan 24, 2009 20:01

Vanadium: Jan 8, 2005

Well, I was kind of hoping it would be a further milestone on his progression to lichdom or something. I totally missed that he did it before, so, welp, nevermind.

Edit: Death to gender-neutral pronouns, and death to gender-neutral elves.

# ? Jan 24, 2009 20:15

mango sentinel: Jan 5, 2001; by sebmojo

I thought it was just because he was angry.

Also the most recent Erfworld destroys every bit of respect it had slowly built through steady plot progression.

# ? Jan 25, 2009 08:00

Cabbit: Jul 19, 2001; _{Is that everything you have?}

mango sentinel posted:

Also the most recent Erfworld destroys every bit of respect it had slowly built through steady plot progression.

Obviously it was built on a really solid foundation, if the grim specter of silly SFX obliterated it. They seemed about as appropriate as ORLY owls, self-aware censoring, 'dwaggins', and vampires doing West Side Story homages did to me.

# ? Jan 25, 2009 08:06

ZorbaTHut: May 5, 2005; wake me when the world is saved

mango sentinel posted:

Also the most recent Erfworld destroys every bit of respect it had slowly built through steady plot progression.

I originally felt that too, but I glanced at the previous page and noticed panel 5. Which means the goatse/tubgirl/lemonparty/NSFW spell was actually a Shock spell.

Which is just silly enough to make me laugh. :v:

# ? Jan 25, 2009 10:10

3 Action Economist: May 22, 2002; Educate. Agitate. Liberate.

ZorbaTHut posted:

I originally felt that too, but I glanced at the previous page and noticed panel 5. Which means the goatse/tubgirl/lemonparty/NSFW spell was actually a Shock spell.

Which is just silly enough to make me laugh.

I thought it was pretty clever.

# ? Jan 25, 2009 14:29

Soonmot: Dec 19, 2002; Entrapta fucking loves robots; Grimey Drawer

ZorbaTHut posted:

I originally felt that too, but I glanced at the previous page and noticed panel 5. Which means the goatse/tubgirl/lemonparty/NSFW spell was actually a Shock spell.

Which is just silly enough to make me laugh.

Yeah, that's the only thing that kept my eyes from rolling out of their sockets.

# ? Jan 25, 2009 15:36

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# ? May 13, 2024 18:28

rocketrobot: Jul 11, 2003

Not to rain on the stupid Erfworld parade; but, update:

Click here for the full 745x933 image.

# ? Jan 25, 2009 16:15

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > The Order of the Stick: T-Rex, Troll Sex and Will Checks

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