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SteelAngel2000 posted:So, I've loved Firefly for a while now, and finally decided to bite the bullet and try a different Joss show. I bought seasons 1 and 2 of Buffy last night. Does this show take a while to get into, because I'm a few episodes into season one and it's pretty dull so far. Yes, I'm mid-way through season 2 and it has been entertaining throughout, but still hasn't quite reached Firefly levels of greatness.
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Jun 3, 2009 22:12
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Yeah, that's completely normal. Buffy Season 1 isn't bad, but it doesn't do much to rise above what you'd expect from a WB teen drama with vampires. It picks up in Season 2 and by Season 3 it's pretty awesome.
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Jun 3, 2009 22:19
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Personally I think Angel is a way better show than Buffy, but you have to get through Buffy's first three seasons (of which I think two and three are the best of that show) to get the whole setup for it.
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Jun 3, 2009 22:24
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The slow increase in quality of Buffy makes me wonder what Firefly could have eventually been.  We can still pray for more movies, I guess.
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Jun 3, 2009 22:33
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SteelAngel2000 posted:So, I've loved Firefly for a while now, and finally decided to bite the bullet and try a different Joss show. I bought seasons 1 and 2 of Buffy last night. Does this show take a while to get into, because I'm a few episodes into season one and it's pretty dull so far. Season 1 is cheesy and although it sets up some plots which come into play over the course of the series, it's not that good. Season 2 is much better and season 3 is the peak.
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Jun 3, 2009 22:45
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Season 1 is oddly charming to me. The episode with the dummy is especially awesome.
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Jun 3, 2009 22:46
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Gordon Shumway posted:Personally I think Angel is a way better show than Buffy, but you have to get through Buffy's first three seasons (of which I think two and three are the best of that show) to get the whole setup for it. I thought that there was a remarkable improvement between each of Joss's series, which made me hopeful for Dollhouse. Now, while I enjoy Dollhouse, I wouldn't put it on the same level, much less greater than, Firefly (or Angel/Buffy for that matter.)
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Jun 3, 2009 23:16
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For me, Buffy got good as soon as a certain blond character showed up in early season 2. I'm about 5 episodes into Angel season 4 now.
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Jun 3, 2009 23:20
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Adam Bowen posted:Yeah, that's completely normal. Buffy Season 1 isn't bad, but it doesn't do much to rise above what you'd expect from a WB teen drama with vampires. It picks up in Season 2 and by Season 3 it's pretty awesome. Yeah, Season 3 you get The Mayor, and you get to become Harry Groener's bitch. Wilkins is the best villain that Joss Whedon has written or probably will ever write, although I don't know how much of that was Whedon's writing and how much was Groener's acting. Of course, that's not to say that Season 3 is only awesome because of Mayor Wilkins, but he's definitely a big part of the equation.
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Jun 3, 2009 23:23
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Aventine posted:Season 1 is oddly charming to me. The episode with the dummy is especially awesome. I feel the same way. Most of the season is a re-working of traditional horror stories, with Jossian twists. Works for me. But then, I think every season of Buffy and Angel are way better than most shows, and some of the seasons are the best tv, ever. Angel season 4, for example.
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Jun 4, 2009 01:10
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DivisionPost posted:Yeah, Season 3 you get The Mayor, and you get to become Harry Groener's bitch. Wilkins is the best villain that Joss Whedon has written or probably will ever write, although I don't know how much of that was Whedon's writing and how much was Groener's acting. I dunno, I'm torn between whether I think Angelus or Wilkins is the better Big Bad. And as far as villians go, I think Holland Manners was way more creepy and evil. His character was the one that finally made me think "Okay, I get where they want to go with Wolfram and Hart." He's not a Big Bad per se but he's so villainous in "Blind Date," "Reunion," and "Reprise."
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Jun 4, 2009 01:48
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DivisionPost posted:Yeah, Season 3 you get The Mayor, and you get to become Harry Groener's bitch. Wilkins is the best villain that Joss Whedon has written or probably will ever write, although I don't know how much of that was Whedon's writing and how much was Groener's acting. AMEN. Wilkins was the villain that you wanted like hell to hate, but couldn't possibly hate because he's just so drat cheery. I saw Groener on Broadway a couple years ago when he was in Spamalot, and he brought that same energy to Spamalot. The man is awesome. Wilkins was the awesome icing on top of the Season 3 cake.
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Jun 4, 2009 02:46
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Friendly Geek posted:AMEN. Wilkins was the villain that you wanted like hell to hate, but couldn't possibly hate because he's just so drat cheery. I saw Groener on Broadway a couple years ago when he was in Spamalot, and he brought that same energy to Spamalot. The man is awesome. Wilkins was the awesome icing on top of the Season 3 cake. And he's either really starved for work or he's devoting his time to the stage; I think the only time I saw him on TV after he wrapped his stint on Las Vegas (as psychotic German chef Gunther) was on this season of Breaking Bad. I was PSYCHED to see his name in the credits, and I find out he's got one scene as a shrink who has to declare Walter White (the main character) of sound mind before he can leave the hospital. It was either so low key that I had to look with better eyes than I had, or it was a role any mid-range actor could've done. I really wanna see him in a good role again, and I was pissed that I missed him (and Alan Tudyk!) in Spamalot. 
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Jun 4, 2009 03:29
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I just had a stunning realisation - Anthony Stewart Head is the brother of Murray Head  I loved One Night In Bangkok when I was a kid.
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Jun 4, 2009 15:43
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Gordon Shumway posted:I dunno, I'm torn between whether I think Angelus or Wilkins is the better Big Bad. And as far as villians go, I think Holland Manners was way more creepy and evil. His character was the one that finally made me think "Okay, I get where they want to go with Wolfram and Hart." He's not a Big Bad per se but he's so villainous in "Blind Date," "Reunion," and "Reprise." I think Angelus is pretty much the worst character Whedon has ever made, Angelus relies on bad writing, there would be nothing special or scary about him if it wasnt for the fact that every other character gets dumbed down when around him
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Jun 4, 2009 16:11
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Oasx posted:I think Angelus is pretty much the worst character Whedon has ever made, Angelus relies on bad writing, there would be nothing special or scary about him if it wasnt for the fact that every other character gets dumbed down when around him I liked him. He was wearing the face of a character you'd come to know and like, and really hit home what they'd been saying about when people turn into vampires. We didn't get enough time to be attached in any way to Jesse so it didn't matter for us that he got turned into a vampire, nor did he really act evil when he got turned (he just wanted to sleep with Cordelia, and he wasn't even forcing her or anything, he just acted confident and was dancing with her when the Harvest started). Angel was already a vampire but it was almost like he was just another person and then bam, we see his true colors. Then there was the fact that he was the only Big Bad of the high school seasons that personally and gleefully killed off a main character. And Angel's past relationship with Buffy left it up in the air whether she could bring herself to kill Angelus. I dunno, I thought he was a cool bad guy and brought an interesting dynamic to the show. Plus he's awesome in "Angel", too. The end of "Release" just made me go "  oh poo poo oh poo poo!"
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Jun 4, 2009 16:40
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Gordon Shumway posted:I liked him. He was wearing the face of a character you'd come to know and like, and really hit home what they'd been saying about when people turn into vampires. We didn't get enough time to be attached in any way to Jesse so it didn't matter for us that he got turned into a vampire, nor did he really act evil when he got turned (he just wanted to sleep with Cordelia, and he wasn't even forcing her or anything, he just acted confident and was dancing with her when the Harvest started). Angel was already a vampire but it was almost like he was just another person and then bam, we see his true colors. Jenny moment and a few Spike interactions aside, I felt Angelus was far more effective on Angel. He was just such a loving prick and gleefully so at that, that it was nice compared to glum, sad Angel.
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Jun 4, 2009 18:32
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Gorilla Salad posted:I just had a stunning realisation - Anthony Stewart Head is the brother of Murray Head Yep! He even took over for his older brother on the stage for a while when Murray left the production of Chess (the musical that One Night in Bangkok is from, in case anyone is unaware).
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Jun 4, 2009 22:10
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I like Angelus as a villain because he's so goddamn malicious. Most villains just want to kill the characters; Angelus wants to make them suffer.
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Jun 5, 2009 00:24
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The problem with Angelus is that he's such a badass that it's not believable that he would do so little. Yeah he killed Jenny, but only because she was a direct threat to him, and she was expendable anyways. Knowing what we do about his past and how cruel he was, he would have murdered Joyce and the gang the first chance he had, and he had way too many chances that he simply decided not to take because his super-evil plan required him to hold back. I'm not doubting that he would have waited a long while to strike at Buffy herself, but I don't buy that instead of killing those close to her, he'd simply sit back and torture her by not actually doing anything. Of course it wouldn't do any good to have the entire supporting cast killed off in the second season, so there's no way he could have actually done any of this, but I would have liked to see a more plausible explanation than him just choosing not to do it. If Joss had been ballsy, he might have had him kill Joyce but then the redemption angle and Buffy forgiving him never would have worked. He was better on Angel, but still pretty weak in my opinion. There's no way he would have been dumb enough to believe that Cordelia would sacrifice herself to him. And the only person of any importance that he actually kills is the Beast, once again for no other valid reason than because his super-evil plan requires it and he doesn't answer to anyone, etc. etc. I won't get into how Angeuls on Buffy, Angel, and in flashbacks is basically 3 completely different characters.
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Jun 5, 2009 00:52
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Adam Bowen posted:I won't get into how Angeuls on Buffy, Angel, and in flashbacks is basically 3 completely different characters. To be fair, the character does experience over a century as Angelus (1750's to 1898), then another century as depressed Angel (~1900 to 1998), then a few months of neo-Angelus (season 2), then a perceptual several centuries in hell dimension (between seasons 2 and 3), then his move to LA. But yeah, you're right. Joss Whedon and David Greenwalt had no plans for the character and were just winging it. He behaves however he's supposed to, show-by-show as dictated by new retroactive continuity.
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Jun 5, 2009 03:36
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Adam Bowen posted:The problem with Angelus is that he's such a badass that it's not believable that he would do so little. Yeah he killed Jenny, but only because she was a direct threat to him, and she was expendable anyways. Knowing what we do about his past and how cruel he was, he would have murdered Joyce and the gang the first chance he had, and he had way too many chances that he simply decided not to take because his super-evil plan required him to hold back. I'm not doubting that he would have waited a long while to strike at Buffy herself, but I don't buy that instead of killing those close to her, he'd simply sit back and torture her by not actually doing anything. I always enjoyed his pacing. It wasn't just Buffy he was screwing with. If you kill the scoobies you don't get to mentally torture them and drive them insane. I loved it when he left Willow's fish in the envelope, or when he followed Joyce from the car to the door and told her he'd slept with Buffy. Leaving Jenny posed on the bed after making up Giles' house like it was going to be a romantic evening was so brutal that even the usually reserved Giles lost his mind temporarily. While Buffy was the primary target, he was spreading the misery around to everyone, and his ability to gently caress with people without killing them is what I enjoy about his character.
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Jun 5, 2009 04:08
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Brennen posted:I always enjoyed his pacing. It wasn't just Buffy he was screwing with. If you kill the scoobies you don't get to mentally torture them and drive them insane. I loved it when he left Willow's fish in the envelope, or when he followed Joyce from the car to the door and told her he'd slept with Buffy. Leaving Jenny posed on the bed after making up Giles' house like it was going to be a romantic evening was so brutal that even the usually reserved Giles lost his mind temporarily. While Buffy was the primary target, he was spreading the misery around to everyone, and his ability to gently caress with people without killing them is what I enjoy about his character. It was especially creepy when he came into her house, sketched her while she slept, and left the sketch in an envelope by her bed with the word "Soon" written on it. And he actually did try to kill both Willow and Xander, but was thwarted both times. First Jenny and Buffy stopped him from killing Willow and then Drusilla and a horde of women stopped him from killing Xander.
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Jun 5, 2009 16:34
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It's pretty awesome to see that I'm not the only person on Earth who was late to the Joss party. Two weeks ago I threw the first Buffy disc on my NetFlix queue on a total whim, and I've been completely hooked since then. I'm on season 4 (and season 1 of Angel, how could I resist?) now, and I've absolutely loved every minute of it. Somehow, even the "bad" episodes manage to be more compelling than just about anything else I've seen on TV, and there's always some kind of engaging character development going on, even when the MoTW is cheesy (I'm looking at you, robot from the '50s). Maybe I'll feel differently when I go back for a second viewing, but even the much-panned Season 1 had me crying/laughing/miscellaneous-emoting basically nonstop. Didn't really have anything to contribute to the thread, just in here to register myself as a newly converted disciple for the Church of Joss. Going to burn through the rest of Buffy and Angel as fast as my work schedule will allow, then it's on to Firefly and Dollhouse -- with any luck, I'll catch up in time to see some Dollhouse eps as they air.
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Jun 8, 2009 21:55
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Gordon Shumway posted:It was especially creepy when he came into her house, sketched her while she slept, and left the sketch in an envelope by her bed with the word "Soon" written on it. I'd forgotten the Xander attempt. That episode is funny, but for some reason it is one I forget until I see it or someone mentions it. I guess I just don't relate it to the overall plot for some reason.
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Jun 8, 2009 23:19
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BusError posted:with any luck, I'll catch up in time to see some Dollhouse eps as they air. 
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Jun 9, 2009 00:09
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I assume I'm the only one who likes Dollhouse better than Buffy.
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Jun 9, 2009 00:46
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Portable Staplefrog posted:I assume I'm the only one who likes Dollhouse better than Buffy. No, I'm with you. I actually like "Firefly" and "Dollhouse" more than the Buffyverse shows. I like "Firefly" more than most shows in general, though. I am still saddened by its cancellation. As serialized scifi goes, "Battlestar Galactica" is a fantastic show from a writing perspective, but damned if I wasn't more entertained-by and connected-to the characters in "Firefly."
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Jun 9, 2009 01:05
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Granted, I didn't see the (I think) last two eps of Dollhouse, but forgiving the unbelievable shittiness of the first 2-3 eps, Dollhouse just ended up in the "OK" category for me. I'm with ya on Firefly though. I still liked the Buffy/Angel stuff, but Firefly was amazing.
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Jun 9, 2009 02:39
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Sorry, quick derail. I've been showing Buffy and Angel to my family back to back (good old fashioned Tuesday night fun!), and we just got to 'Once More With Feeling'. Three other people, all of whom have really liked the show, suddenly hate Buffy. Apparently 'Once More' was so bad(?) for them that they're officially turned off of the show. Which is lame, because they're going to miss the sheer badassery of 'Tabula Rasa'. Anyway, just thought I'd pass on how weird it was. I've seen people apathetic to 'Once More' before, but I've never seen anyone so strongly against it that they don't want to watch the show anymore.
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Jun 9, 2009 05:21
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that's pretty hosed up cause I thought that was an awesome episode full of great things and emotion. are you sure they just don't like musicals and got jaded because buffy did one? not that my opinion is the end all be all. but as someone who just watched the series I thought it was great. I've been listening to the sound track for that episode for 2 weeks straight. Minimaul fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Jun 9, 2009 |
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Jun 9, 2009 05:49
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Spaceboy posted:Apparently 'Once More' was so bad(?) for them that they're officially turned off of the show. Whoa, OMWF is awesome and your friends are suffering from terminal lameness. Ok well maybe not, but I can't believe people that have sat through Buffy up to that point would suddenly be put off the show by that episode. There's a justifiable reason everyone is singing, the songs are great in and of themselves, and there are a lot of character building moments. Actually, all of the main characters either have some growth or realize they need to do something/change something in their life that directly impacts later events, so even if your friends didn't like the musical aspect of it, you'd think they'd be able to see that there's more going on there. Switching gears, Aatrek I was surprised that you don't have any Buffy gifs in your archive. I made one as a trial run of my image editing stuff (honestly my real motivation was in trying to make something to use as a new custom title but I couldn't get anything under the limits, even at 100x100 pixels, meh... anyway then I figured it would be easy enough to do this at the same time). I need to fiddle with the compression next time I do this so that it's cleaner, but I figured I would share anyway since this is the Joss thread. Snippet from Lessons
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Jun 9, 2009 07:18
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Carrot Wheel posted:Switching gears, Aatrek I was surprised that you don't have any Buffy gifs in your archive. I made one as a trial run of my image editing stuff (honestly my real motivation was in trying to make something to use as a new custom title but I couldn't get anything under the limits, even at 100x100 pixels, meh... anyway then I figured it would be easy enough to do this at the same time). I need to fiddle with the compression next time I do this so that it's cleaner, but I figured I would share anyway since this is the Joss thread. Aatrek's got some kickin' rad Angel .gifs though:  I never get tired of seeing that. It's so awesomely badass.
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Jun 9, 2009 16:28
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Heads up for everyone: Amazon's deal of the day is the complete Firefly on blu-ray for $40. The DVD transfers were poo poo so I'm seriously considering it.
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Jun 9, 2009 18:42
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Gordon Shumway posted:Aatrek's got some kickin' rad Angel .gifs though: Very true. This is my favorite though:  
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Jun 9, 2009 22:30
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OMWF was what convinced me to start watching Buffy, actually. Previously, I had been catching up on Angel (watching the seasons out of order, at that), but I was never interested in all the teenage drama that I envisioned Buffy consisting of. I checked out OMWF because I had heard really good things about it and it seemed offbeat enough to be interesting. What really surprised me was how easy it was to grasp the backstory and current plotlines. Through the characters' songs (and with the little bit I'd picked up from Angel), I was able to follow the plot pretty well. And the songs themselves were pretty catchy and entertaining, especially as someone who had never been crazy about musicals in the first place. I think it did an excellent job of distilling the show: Plenty of humor with some dark thematic elements and just a spice of drama.
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Jun 10, 2009 00:39
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Gordon Shumway posted:Aatrek's got some kickin' rad Angel .gifs though: As awesome as that .gif is, I wish someone (hint!) would add a second part, where in even more badass fashion Wes takes out the shotgun and moves in for a close shot on the Beast. Twas righteous!
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Jun 10, 2009 01:30
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redshirt posted:As awesome as that .gif is, I wish someone (hint!) would add a second part, where in even more badass fashion Wes takes out the shotgun and moves in for a close shot on the Beast. Twas righteous! The best moment with the shotgun was when Angelus grabs it and starts popping off shots at Faith later on in the season. "Uh, oh! Vampire with a gun! I can see why he likes this thing..."
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Jun 10, 2009 03:53
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Gordon Shumway posted:And he actually did try to kill both Willow and Xander, but was thwarted both times. First Jenny and Buffy stopped him from killing Willow... Buffy just distracted him. Xander did the actual saving.  Gordon Shumway posted:Aatrek's got some kickin' rad Angel .gifs though: Wesley had his share of slow-motion "badass with a gun" shots in season four, didn't he? Badass Wes is the best Wes.
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Jun 10, 2009 07:25
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Fantabulero posted:Badass Wes is the best Wes. So, so true. Wesley was so awesome. 
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Jun 10, 2009 20:16
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