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Fun thing I have discovered today. I am very poor, so I can't afford minis for monsters. I had a bunch of candies around so I just used them for the enemies. Whoever dealt the death blow to the monster got to eat its mini. It's a pretty satisfying feeling especially if the monster was a bitch to kill. My players are newbs, and they aren't great with tactics. Beyond helpful suggestions, is there anything I can do to help them get a better grip on it? The swordmage has problems with it especially, he insists on using close burst powers when there's only one guy in range, and he has trouble grasping the whole marking mechanic.
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Aug 2, 2009 04:14
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Fame Throwa posted:My players are newbs, and they aren't great with tactics. Beyond helpful suggestions, is there anything I can do to help them get a better grip on it? The swordmage has problems with it especially, he insists on using close burst powers when there's only one guy in range, and he has trouble grasping the whole marking mechanic. You could have them make Wisdom checks before going through with a suboptimal action to "realize" a better idea. Or if the swordmage is having fun, let him keep hucking close bursts at just one dude. Don't make them be all WoW-like, "OK, Kenny, go ahead and set up the buff in 2-round increments, Stan link your dagger with Kyle's bow action... potions on 5" If they're sub-optimal, let them be. They'll learn if they eventually stumble onto something that works and keep doing it. For marking, you could get a different kind of candy (reese's mini cups are good) to put underneath the figure to explain its marked status. Also, try explaining (either in downtime during the week or before a session) flavor-wise how something works. If he understands the why, maybe the how will drop into place. Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Aug 3, 2009 |
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Aug 3, 2009 12:26
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Seriously, if they really are floundering, it's not always a bad idea to just sit them down for a sort of tutorial session in tactics. 4E is a significant enough departure from 3.5 (or even most other PnP RPGs in general) in terms of how demanding it is of tabletop tactics that I think some players might genuinely appreciate a chance to have a walkthrough of basic tactics. I'm sure there are plenty of people who would get bored and some would get offended, but if you think your players would appreciate it, then run a quick tutorial fight. Barring that, the less direct approach I suppose would be to put them in fights that obviously called for certain tactics. For instance, put them in a fight where their enemies are near the edge of some lava pit or trap and let the players figure out that they need to push their enemies in that direction. If they're having a hard time understanding combat advantage, maybe make them fight some golems that are heavily armored in front and lightly armored in the rear, so that combat advantages bonuses are doubled against them. Each time you feel they need to learn a concept better, put them in a fight that clearly calls for it and let them learn those tactics naturally. The only other thing I could think of is a Blood Bowl style game. Let them enter some sort of football/bloodbowl style game that essentially requires tactical movement to win. After a few "matches" against progressively harder teams on their way to the finals, they ought to pick up some understanding of tactics just by playing. You can even give each player a write up of how his "position" should play. e.g. "You are a Lineman and charged with defending your team's Rusher from the enemies Blitzers. To do this most effectively mark the Blitzers in order to make them temporarily focus on you. Use shift and push powers to open a lane for your Rusher."
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Aug 3, 2009 13:04
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How can I get my players more involved in role playing their characters? We've only had two sessions, so while everyone is learning combat I've been describing their moves (You spin around in the blink of an eye and hit the kobold with both your swords), what happens when they fail a roll (You try to climb up the wall but hit your knee), etc. I had them sit around a campfire on the way back to town and told them to come up with a basic origin for their characters, and reluctantly did so only after I offered some xp for it. Should I just keep doing this?
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Aug 3, 2009 17:54
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Send some NPCs to talk with them.
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Aug 3, 2009 18:39
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:The problem I see with this idea is that the players are going to trade their weapons in for something better pretty early in the campaign unless you somehow "level up" their weapons for them. FYI there are rules for this in Adventurer's Vault.
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Aug 3, 2009 19:30
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The sitting around a camp-fire scene was pretty cool in Conan ("What is good in life?" and all that), but it's a little awkward in DnD. I've actually found that players are more likely to role play during exciting scenes rather than down time "let's hang out and chat" scenes. I mean, the characters want to rest and relax and socialize after all the poo poo they've been through, that's fine, but the players showed up to roll some dice and solve some problems, to have some excitement. I dunno, I wouldn't be into it either. And ya know, some people just don't like to role play. Or they feel awkward specifically talking in character and would rather just emote-role play ("I tell them about the map my character found" rather than "Hey guys I found a map!"). It's no big deal, there are other aspects of the game they probably enjoy. As long as you're all still having a good time, it shouldn't be a problem. But let me tell you, forcing them to role play when they don't want to isn't going to get you anything that you want.
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Aug 3, 2009 19:38
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I'm going to start running my first Dark Heresy game with a group of friends maybe like 3-5 people, and while I have played Dark Heresy they haven't and I was hoping for some advice so their characters might advance one or twice.
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Aug 3, 2009 22:10
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Dark Heresy credo: the ends justify the means.
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Aug 3, 2009 22:12
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Give them a moral choice they have to make (with consequences!) where the moral line isn't blackand white. Force them to make bargins with kobolds, an evil race who they could easily kill, but they'd be breaking their word. Make them choose sides between two both good sides who happen to hate each other. Also, if you feel comfortable with your group, try being an NPC whose a little dumb. A captured goblin, a lost child who doesn't know where their home is, etc. Make it cute and stupid, and the plays will hopefully have a natural tendancy to protect whatever it is.
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Aug 3, 2009 22:15
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I'm kind of scared running this because the only other rpg I know they have played is Paranoia and one of the players rolled up a crazy good feral assassin except for his 21 Will Power and 29 Fellowship, he has 5 scores over 35+ and a 35. The another friend rolled up a psyker who is more average except for his starting 40 Will power, 39 fellowship, and 38 Ballistic Skill. I'm hoping one of the other players will be a Tech priest or guardsman/arbitrator.
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Aug 3, 2009 22:32
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Ulta posted:Give them a moral choice they have to make (with consequences!) where the moral line isn't blackand white. Force them to make bargins with kobolds, an evil race who they could easily kill, but they'd be breaking their word. Make them choose sides between two both good sides who happen to hate each other. This. It can sound good to have a scene like that, but it nearly never works to say "Okay guys - roleplay!". They need something to roleplay about. Moral conflicts help them define their characters. Don't ask them if they are the kind of people that will stand up for what is right, let them show you. Maybe set it up so the king commands them to root out the kobolds. They are rewarded for doing so, both with money and fame. They have a few scuffles and capture some kobolds who speak common. They explain that the humans started invading their mines looking for ore. The kobolds have lived here peacefully for centuries. They only started attacking the humans when they invaded their homes and smashed their eggs, and only raid at night to take back what humans have stolen. Now the PCs can make a character defining choice. Do they ignore the kobolds plea and continue slaughtering them as cold-blooded mercenaries? Do they rebel against the King and protect the kobolds as idealists? To they try to make peace between the humans and kobolds? This is the kind of thing that engenders roleplay IME, because it makes the players think about who their characters are and what they believe. Just don't railroad them. It doesn't work if there's a 'right' choice. Just deal with the consequences. And you're really in for some drama if half the group wants to stay loyal to the king while the other half wants to become kobold defenders.
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Aug 3, 2009 22:48
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Fallorn posted:I'm kind of scared running this because the only other rpg I know they have played is Paranoia and one of the players rolled up a crazy good feral assassin except for his 21 Will Power and 29 Fellowship, he has 5 scores over 35+ and a 35. The another friend rolled up a psyker who is more average except for his starting 40 Will power, 39 fellowship, and 38 Ballistic Skill. I'm hoping one of the other players will be a Tech priest or guardsman/arbitrator. Don't worry. Good stats won't save them.
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Aug 3, 2009 22:53
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Fallorn posted:I'm kind of scared running this because the only other rpg I know they have played is Paranoia and one of the players rolled up a crazy good feral assassin except for his 21 Will Power and 29 Fellowship, he has 5 scores over 35+ and a 35. The another friend rolled up a psyker who is more average except for his starting 40 Will power, 39 fellowship, and 38 Ballistic Skill. I'm hoping one of the other players will be a Tech priest or guardsman/arbitrator. Oh, don't worry. This apparent unfairness is part of the setting and the system; it matters a lot more how they develop and act with those characters and each PC still has an area where they excel in comparison to each party member. This only becomes problematic if two players go for the same expertise and one clearly outclasses the other. Manage that during character creation and it won't be a problem. Your Assassin might look great on paper, but with those scores for Willpower and Fellowship he'll end up labelled as an anti-social coward fast. He's like a ninja of death that can't stand a real firefight (sure, roll that willpower to poke out from cover) and is going to go horribly against anything that causes Fear. In fact, I would say just those scores already give you a great character concept to deal with; and further room for character growth, not only mechanically, but as a personality. This is an opportunity, not a problem.
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Aug 4, 2009 03:12
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Only thing I did to help him was show him dusk world, for a feral planet so fear effects are reduced by one.
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Aug 4, 2009 03:21
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Super Waffle posted:How can I get my players more involved in role playing their characters? We've only had two sessions, so while everyone is learning combat I've been describing their moves (You spin around in the blink of an eye and hit the kobold with both your swords), what happens when they fail a roll (You try to climb up the wall but hit your knee), etc. I had them sit around a campfire on the way back to town and told them to come up with a basic origin for their characters, and reluctantly did so only after I offered some xp for it. Should I just keep doing this? I have a similar problem with the campaign I'm DMing; my players don't really interact with the NPCs beyond a "give me a quest or fight me" sort of mentality. We're playing through Keep on the Shadowfell right now and last session they met Sir Keegan's ghost/undead body. During the negotiation skill challenge I tried to coax them into giving me more then "I roll diplomacy" by giving a bonus to their rolls if they respond in character but they were still hesitant. After succeeding the challenge the book lists a bunch of information about the keep and Sir Keegan's past that the players can uncover by asking questions ("Who are you?" "What happened?") but they went straight for "Can have your sword?". I know that as DM you should provide what your player's interested in but, I don't know, I just feel like they're missing a lot of cool background stuff by "skipping the cut scenes" Is there anything I can do to get them interested in learning more about the setting through NPCs? Should I just forget it and focus completely on the combat?
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Aug 4, 2009 18:09
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Christo posted:I have a similar problem with the campaign I'm DMing; my players don't really interact with the NPCs beyond a "give me a quest or fight me" sort of mentality. We're playing through Keep on the Shadowfell right now and last session they met Sir Keegan's ghost/undead body. During the negotiation skill challenge I tried to coax them into giving me more then "I roll diplomacy" by giving a bonus to their rolls if they respond in character but they were still hesitant. After succeeding the challenge the book lists a bunch of information about the keep and Sir Keegan's past that the players can uncover by asking questions ("Who are you?" "What happened?") but they went straight for "Can have your sword?". I know that as DM you should provide what your player's interested in but, I don't know, I just feel like they're missing a lot of cool background stuff by "skipping the cut scenes" Don't give up! Part of the problem your having might stem from the fact that your running a module. Modules are great for certain things, but roleplaying is not one of them, simply because roleplaying ultimatly comes down to the PCs making choices and effecting their situation. Modules, limited by space and the imagination of the writter, simply can't provide enough options. If the players know there choices are limited, they'll react in a limited way, knowing that their choices, as long as they are reasonable, will find them through to a defined end. When I'm a player, my eyes kind of glaze over when we encounter box text. I know I can't do anything about it, so why try. When I run my campaign, usually at lunch the day of, I'll jot down 4 or 5 plot hooks, usually one for each character, so they can feel like a special snowflake, and one or two for the group as a whole. Then the major points I reasonably see hitting for each one. The PCs will pick some up and ignore others. From there it's made up on the spot. Remeber the rule of "Yes, but". If a PC wants to try something, either say OK, or "Yes, but...". Nothing will shut creativity faster than a "No".
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Aug 4, 2009 18:42
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According to D&D 3.5 to craft a magic item costs half the base price in GP and 1/25 the base price in XP. For an item that costs 2 GP it follows that, mechanically, 1 GP + 2/25 XP = 2 GP. From this we can deduce that 1 GP = 0.08 XP and thus that 12.5 GP = 1 XP. This is without going into profit margins and other such nonsense. I'm seriously tempted to change the D&D 3.5 Item Creation feats to allow characters to make items of the feat's type for 90% of the listed cost; the craft reserve for an Artificer would be multiplied by 12.5 to convert it into its equivalent worth in GP for the purposes of crafting. In Eberron there are feats that reduce the GP cost of an item by 25% and that reduce the XP cost of the item by 25%. Since 25% of 50% = 1/4 * 1/2 = 1/8, I'd make it that each of these feats would reduce the crafting cost by a further 12.5%, meaning that someone who takes both feats and an item creation feat could craft an item of that type for 65% its ordinary cost. Does that seem fair? I'd still insist that players couldn't sell their items for more than 50% the normal retail cost, I just want to reform crafting to remove XP accountancy. Similarly, I'm tempted to make abilities that cost XP instead require spending GP equal to 12.5 times the listed XP cost.
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Aug 4, 2009 19:13
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Christo posted:I have a similar problem with the campaign I'm DMing; my players don't really interact with the NPCs beyond a "give me a quest or fight me" sort of mentality. We're playing through Keep on the Shadowfell right now and last session they met Sir Keegan's ghost/undead body. During the negotiation skill challenge I tried to coax them into giving me more then "I roll diplomacy" by giving a bonus to their rolls if they respond in character but they were still hesitant. After succeeding the challenge the book lists a bunch of information about the keep and Sir Keegan's past that the players can uncover by asking questions ("Who are you?" "What happened?") but they went straight for "Can have your sword?". I know that as DM you should provide what your player's interested in but, I don't know, I just feel like they're missing a lot of cool background stuff by "skipping the cut scenes" Keep on the Shadowfell sucks for roleplaying. My group is pretty good about it and didnt feel much need to roleplay until pretty much the final battle.
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Aug 4, 2009 19:18
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So hey, I need help. Bad. I'm running an NWOD mage game, and while I don't mind players one-shotting the odd encounter, I have a problem. One of players is a thyrsus. How can I stop him from transmuting everything into bees? or turning Tzimisce Szlachta into pomeranians? Or trying to kill archmages? or transmuting the bacteria in the lower intestine into e-coli or ebola. He's a friend, and does roleplay, but still. Help me keep him from breaking the game 
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Aug 9, 2009 11:44
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Quantumfate posted:So hey, I need help. Bad. I'm running an NWOD mage game, and while I don't mind players one-shotting the odd encounter, I have a problem. One of players is a thyrsus. How can I stop him from transmuting everything into bees? or turning Tzimisce Szlachta into pomeranians? Or trying to kill archmages? or transmuting the bacteria in the lower intestine into e-coli or ebola. He's a friend, and does roleplay, but still. Help me keep him from breaking the game What level Life does he have and what's he using it to do?
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Aug 10, 2009 00:04
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three life, using it to transform base and medium life, transferring features, and summoning bees and ladybugs from -everything-.
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Aug 10, 2009 00:35
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Life 3 isn't at all overpowered except in the case of a Strength 5 dude granting himself Strength 8. I'm not exactly sure what you think the problem is with him using Life/Matter to turn objects into insects, or Life to turn dogs into different dogs. If he's going to use Life 3 to attempt to disease someone, abstract it as "Roll dicepool resisted by target's Stamina, target suffers a penalty of your Life rating to his next [successes] rolls, and also gets sick with some disease whose danger level is commensurate to your successes which he will need to get regular treatment for."
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Aug 10, 2009 00:39
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I confirmed something last night I had suspected all along. Pcs love building stuff. Let your Pc's build a fort and run a battle in it. This personalized and makes the fight important to them ("My walls held off the trolls for 3 rounds". "That chokepoint was a sweet idea"). Plus it takes the burden off of you to make interesting terrain. I ran a mass battle last night, letting the Pcs use Jenga blocks to construct a fort. They all had a blast. Pics below http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/41363558@N06/3811523170/
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Aug 11, 2009 15:28
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Ulta posted:I confirmed something last night I had suspected all along. Pcs love building stuff. Let your Pc's build a fort and run a battle in it. This personalized and makes the fight important to them ("My walls held off the trolls for 3 rounds". "That chokepoint was a sweet idea"). Plus it takes the burden off of you to make interesting terrain. I ran a 3E Dungeons and Dragons game that began in a small and exhausted silver mining town named Rococo. A few members of the town helped the adventurers out and, in return, over the course of the game the players took the town under their wing and began donating gold and effort into sprucing the place up. By the end of it (level 15ish) they were actively investing most of their extra time and funds into it to the point where I made a town "level up" sheet based upon what they wanted to invest in each game session and they group literally spent 20 minutes each session debating the pros and cons of each available upgrade and making hard SimFantasycity decisions. The rogue of the group ran diplomatic affairs between the city and adjacent settlements, opening trade and currying favors. The place went from roughly 90 people and less than 20 ramshackle buildings to a full-grown town of 3,000 with an active farming and military economy. They built city walls, guard towers, a theatre (and rogue's den), a mage spire and stationed an airship loaded with canons. Towards the end of the game an enemy army assaulted the city and the players and their hand-picked and trained militia all took part in a swift and effective defeat of the attackers. It was probably one of the best moments in the game simply because the town itself had become a beloved character that they fought tooth and claw to see protected.
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Aug 11, 2009 16:10
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Ulta posted:I confirmed something last night I had suspected all along. Pcs love building stuff. Let your Pc's build a fort and run a battle in it. This personalized and makes the fight important to them ("My walls held off the trolls for 3 rounds". "That chokepoint was a sweet idea"). Plus it takes the burden off of you to make interesting terrain. Looking at this and PierretheMime's post, I'm freshly inspired to work on how I'm going to handle the "dynamic base" in the sci-fi campaign I want to run. The idea is the players will begin as two-bit mercenaries doing contracts for a larger cartel, who get shut down by corrupt officials. They're out on their own with their money, their mechs and a caravan to live in. As they do missions, interact with factions and (hopefully) get towards stopping the villain, they'll have the opportunity first to capture a base camp for real, with hangars and workshops, and then to recruit ground crew, their own grunts and so on until they've got a base and an army to fight the (massively rich and influential) BBEG in a straight fight if they want. There will be liberal opportunities to invent bizarre defences, custom weapons and to hoard the random crap I know the players love to pick up during campaigns. And of course, there will be base defence missions from time to time, tailored to what they've been doing.
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Aug 11, 2009 16:37
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I'm not sure if this is an appropriate thread to post this in, but I don't feel it warrants it's own thread. Is there any element built into the D&D 3.5 rules that covers a human performing a ritual/spell/something along those lines to ascend to demon form? I'm in the process of building a particular nasty villain that I hope will give my players something to work towards defeating throughout the campaign. If there isn't, I'll just make a home brewed option, but I was just curious if anything existed in the current system designed to do what I'm wanting, or something close.
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Aug 11, 2009 17:43
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Yarrbossa posted:I'm not sure if this is an appropriate thread to post this in, but I don't feel it warrants it's own thread. You want the Acolyte of the Skin PrC, from Complete Arcane.
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Aug 11, 2009 17:48
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Piell posted:You want the Acolyte of the Skin PrC, from Complete Arcane. Just what I was looking for. I can definitely make this work. Thanks a bunch!
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Aug 11, 2009 18:00
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I'm wondering if this final boss battle will be too tough for my group. They're level 2, 5 members, Feylock, Battle Cleric, Paladin, Wizard, and Ranger. I'm planning on having them fight 3 level 6 Shadar Kai, 2 Gloomblades and a Chainfighter. Should I take each one down to level 5? 4?
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Aug 12, 2009 02:05
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I used a balanced goblin encounter on a party where one of the goblins was I think. . . +4 and another +3. . . It ended up a TPK. Part of me wants to blame the players (The ranger basically chased one goblin around the battle field and let the party deal with everyone else.) but the defenses on the higher level monsters was pretty tough to crack, especially when they were using cover.
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Aug 12, 2009 04:49
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lighttigersoul posted:the defenses on the higher level monsters was pretty tough to crack, especially when they were using cover. Yep, my understanding is Soldiers a few levels higher than the party are particularly likely to lead to a whiff-fest from the PCs. It might be worth looking at what the PCs would have to roll to hit, and maybe adjusting AC to suit.
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Aug 12, 2009 06:14
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SweeneyTodd posted:Yep, my understanding is Soldiers a few levels higher than the party are particularly likely to lead to a whiff-fest from the PCs. It might be worth looking at what the PCs would have to roll to hit, and maybe adjusting AC to suit. I figured doing this since I have a level 5 party with 4 people fighting a level 8 solo. I adjusted the power as per the rules so it went down a level, AC is still 23 which I'm not totally happy with. Our barbarian would need a 14 to hit it. Whats a good expectation to get on a die roll?
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Aug 12, 2009 06:25
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RagnarokAngel posted:I figured doing this since I have a level 5 party with 4 people fighting a level 8 solo. The average for a die is (lowest+highest)/2, so for a d20 that's 10.5; you can assume that half of all rolls will be higher than the average, so that's the best choice for an expectation. (The .5 just means that half will be 11 and higher, half will be 10 and lower, there is no single value right in the middle.)
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Aug 12, 2009 12:54
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The Shadar kai are AC 20, which isn't so bad for a boss. They just fought a hobgoblin with AC 21 and they did ok. The chainfighter only does 2d4+3 and the gloomblades 1d10+3. I think they can handle it. Another thing. One of of my players is begging me for a Pseudodragon pet. How should I handle this?
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Aug 12, 2009 15:42
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Super Waffle posted:The Shadar kai are AC 20, which isn't so bad for a boss. They just fought a hobgoblin with AC 21 and they did ok. The chainfighter only does 2d4+3 and the gloomblades 1d10+3. I think they can handle it. Have him take the Arcane Familiar feat, pick the dragonling familiar, call it a pseudodragon. If he's not an arcane class, you could let him take it anyway, and pick a different familiar that would be more useful and reskin it as a pseudodragon. Piell fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Aug 12, 2009 |
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Aug 12, 2009 15:47
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Hes a paladin. I think I'll use the dragonling rules for a pseudodragon, and have him find it instead of his magic item reward for this level.
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Aug 12, 2009 16:55
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Super Waffle posted:Hes a paladin. I think I'll use the dragonling rules for a pseudodragon, and have him find it instead of his magic item reward for this level. It can fall under familiar rules, or you could modify mount rules.
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Aug 13, 2009 00:21
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Super Waffle posted:Hes a paladin. I think I'll use the dragonling rules for a pseudodragon, and have him find it instead of his magic item reward for this level. If he just wants it for fluff then I wouldn't bother with making mechanics for it. Just role-play it as a baby young pseudodragon that hides when combat occurs. Alternatively, level the stat block from the Monster Manual and let your Paladin control him on the battlefield. I'd divide experience as though there were half a player though to not throw balance way off. That is, with four players and the pseudodragon divide experience by 4.5 before awarding it. Another option would be to make the pseudodragon a minion and not reduce XP at all. It'd be so fragile that the players wouldn't often want to use it as a combatant unless they really work around using it. My players don't have a leader and after some good roleplaying I awarded them with a kobold admirer. 
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Aug 13, 2009 16:29
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Super Waffle posted:I'm wondering if this final boss battle will be too tough for my group. They're level 2, 5 members, Feylock, Battle Cleric, Paladin, Wizard, and Ranger. I'm planning on having them fight 3 level 6 Shadar Kai, 2 Gloomblades and a Chainfighter. Should I take each one down to level 5? 4? Our first death in 4th edition was to some shadar kai. We were level 4 and it turns out there were 3 chain fighters and a gloom blade. They have some ability that lets them shift a bunch of spaces and make multiple attacks, and also have invisibility and insubstantial type powers. We found them very hard to lock down and my wizard got chased down by them and got the top of his head sliced off  I'm not saying your encounter is too hard, just that they have some interesting abilities that might take your party by surprise (as it did us) Oh and they had a cockatrice in a bag that they threw at us in the first round that sort of kept us on the back foot whist we were scared of getting turned to stone
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Aug 13, 2009 17:34
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