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Theace41 posted:Lets say hypothetically, and this is a big hypothetical, that somebody taking the FSOT and hoping for a career in the foreign service had visited N. Korea in the last year or so on a hiking trip. Should this be played up wherever possible as a unique travel experience or would it be look upon not so favorably given the whole axis of evil thing? If they get far enough, they will have to disclose it in the investigation for their security clearance anyways. They'll have an opportunity to explain it and it doesn't seem like it'd be an automatic 100% deal-breaker, but if they have people (preferably American citizens) who were on the trip with them that the DSS investigator can contact, that will help their case. Also I thought you could only go to a few areas of NK and had to have a government toadie/tour guide with you the whole time? Edit: there's no need to be cute about it if it's you, they're going to find out if you try and hide it, and lying to them will get your clearance application automatically rejected. Pompous Rhombus fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Oct 6, 2009 |
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Oct 6, 2009 04:24
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Theace41 posted:Lets say hypothetically, and this is a big hypothetical, that somebody taking the FSOT and hoping for a career in the foreign service had visited N. Korea in the last year or so on a hiking trip. Should this be played up wherever possible as a unique travel experience or would it be look upon not so favorably given the whole axis of evil thing? Tales of knowingly breaking the laws of another country, i.e. sneaking across a boarder in the dark of night, might not go over so well. That said, there are no restrictions listed on the state department travel page for North Korea ( http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_988.html ) so why not. If the trip was legitimate, you could use it on your PN and it would likely set you apart from the crowd.
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Oct 6, 2009 04:29
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Just took the FSOT today. Took me almost exactly 2 hours from when I arrived until I signed out to leave. Test was a knowledge base section, a biographical questionnaire, a series of editing questions/grammar tests, and then an essay. My thoughts: The editing questions were ridiculously easy. Granted, I have dealt with editing almost every day of my life for the past 10 years, but if you speak English as your first language and have a professional enough grasp of grammar that you can write a memo or a 1 page report to your boss without typos and misplaced punctuation, you're going to ace it. The biographical questionnaire - this threw me a bit. It was 77 questions I believe, something close to that. I had 40 minutes. I initially misread it as 40 questions, 77 minutes. About a third of the questions were two-parters, along the lines of "Have you ever worked a job that required extensive customer service? If you pick A, B, or C, be prepared to list up to 4 jobs and the kind of customer service you had". This list counted as a second question. However, it limited you to only 200 characters. That's barely enough to list the names, let alone go into any detail, and what is worse is that the program lets you type past 200 characters. I don't know if it cuts you off or whatever, but it's loving stupid. Essay: You get unlimited space, 30 minutes to do it. I like to write and I type fast, so I drafted a pretty sick explanation of why laissez-faire capitalism should be predominant U.S. policy in regards to imposing social responsibility upon corporations. I finished with about 2 minutes to spare, but I probably overdid the amount of work involved in this one. Knowledge base: The questions here were predominantly legal, which was great for me. There were a few questions on the constitution, quite a bit on voting rights, race equality etc. I'd advise testtakers who aren't strong on their law to read about the legal and legislative side of the civil rights movement (starting with the 13th amendment. Every practice test I've seen had a question about the 13th amendment, and this actual test had it too). Some history questions on topics like FDR's court packing scheme, one horribly ambiguous question on John Marshall that should be scrapped, a question about teddy roosevelt and the battle of san juan hill (what war was it in), and about 10-15 questions that were things like "If a co-worker requested feedback, would you (a) call him derogatory terms and make racially motivated comments, (b) ignore him and pretend you didn't hear, (c) provide neutral, unbiased response, using constructive criticism when necessary, or (d) tell him no." I finished the 60+ questions in this section in about 10 minutes or so. I think there were only about 3 that I didn't immediately know the answer (One on "convergent thinking", the poorly written John Marshall question, and maybe one more that I forget). Overall, it was a lot easier than I thought. 3-5 weeks to hear back, then three weeks to file my personal narrative, than 9-12 weeks to hear if I passed QEP. So if all goes well, I guess I could do my Oral Assessment in maybe February.
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Oct 6, 2009 21:28
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I highly recommend not hitting control-z to undo a spelling mistake on the essay portion, because it will permanently undo the entire essay. Luckily I only had to rewrite ten minutes worth.
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Oct 6, 2009 21:38
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Well I'm taking mine tomorrow at 1 pm. Thanks for your post SWATJester, I feel a bit more mentally prepared after reading that. I'm still a little worried about my American history not being what it should, but I've done as much cramming as I can so hopefully things will go alright. Wish me luck!
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Oct 6, 2009 22:52
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SWATJester posted:
I took it today as well, think I kinda over prepared for it. The knowledge base one was especially easy. I'm guessing it is randomized as far as what questions you get because mine were mostly focused on management and that sort of stuff. I didn't go with the management track though, so it was unexpected.
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Oct 6, 2009 23:21
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Took it today as well. The General knowledge section was really easy and that pissed me off because I studied the hell out of whatever I could. It was a lot more basic and dumbed down than I expected. The Grammar section was tricky for me for some reason and if I don't pass it'll be because of death by comma. The essay was a little tricky but I don't think I did too bad. If I had to take a guess I'd say I probably made it through but this is my first time taking it so I don't know what the relative cutoff is. This is more of a lateral move for me so there's not a lot of stress about it either way but I was expecting it to be a lot tougher than it was.
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Oct 6, 2009 23:51
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SWATJester posted:Just took the FSOT today. Took me almost exactly 2 hours from when I arrived until I signed out to leave. This was pretty much my exact experience last weekend, although my knowledge base section was light on history (bad for me) and heavy on geography (also bad for me) although I am pretty sure I did just fine on it. What threw me were the several questions that seemed to be composed entirely of bullshit corporate motivational jargon-speak. e.g. If you are supervising an employee who has high normative values for motivation and low normative values for cohesive team member paradigm shifting, do you: a.) think outside the box b.) going forward, seek the motivational core of your teams shifting point c.) Take a poo poo, smoke a joint d.) give the guy a raise Obviously I am exaggerating but when I read it I felt like not only did I have no loving clue whatthe answer was, but neither would anyone else so it was cool.
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Oct 6, 2009 23:53
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Defleshed posted:This was pretty much my exact experience last weekend, although my knowledge base section was light on history (bad for me) and heavy on geography (also bad for me) although I am pretty sure I did just fine on it. What threw me were the several questions that seemed to be composed entirely of bullshit corporate motivational jargon-speak. Yeah, same here. Another beef I had with the test is the biographical portion. I chose a somewhat wrong answer. Normally you could go back and review it, but it was one of the questions that asked you to elaborate, and it didn't allow me to fix it. Was kind of a pain.
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Oct 7, 2009 01:00
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Yeah I had a bunch of those questions, but all of them except the "what is convergent thinking" one were stupidly easy.
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Oct 7, 2009 01:13
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Nice to hear that people found the FSOT easy. I do want to remind everyone that State/ACT is very strict about the nondisclosure agreement (NDA) from the test, and that any specific content of any questions should probably be edited out of posts to this thread. Of course, I didn't take it, so I can't tell what is accurate and what is sarcasm, so will leave it up to the judgment of individual posters not to include anything that could give others undue advantage (questions are reused, so the NDA holds even after the test is administered). When I took the old test in 1999 there were far fewer management theory questions; this is due to McKinsey's suggestions, yes?
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Oct 7, 2009 01:16
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SWATJester posted:Yeah I had a bunch of those questions, but all of them except the "what is convergent thinking" one were stupidly easy. There are a few management books on the reading list of the study guide that I figured I should read up on, since I've only tangentially studied that sort of thing. I tried cracking one of them and ugh, I'll just wing it on that section. Common sense and a decent vocabulary can take you pretty far on a lot of those questions, I think.
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Oct 7, 2009 01:25
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Pompous Rhombus posted:There are a few management books on the reading list of the study guide that I figured I should read up on, since I've only tangentially studied that sort of thing. I tried cracking one of them and ugh, I'll just wing it on that section. Common sense and a decent vocabulary can take you pretty far on a lot of those questions, I think. You're correct. I know nothing of the things they were talking about, but you could pretty easily deduce the answer they were looking for if you are reasonably intelligent. I was remarking more on how inane and non-indictative of anything the questions seemed.
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Oct 7, 2009 01:29
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I have a friend who's studying his rear end off to pass the FSOT exam this week. Seems like an odd test - a mentally handicapped person could probably ace the computer portion and then there's questions on Tokugawa and the Boxer Rebellion. I remain unconvinced that it will result in fulfilling work but like many people these days, I sense a bit of desperation.
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Oct 7, 2009 09:26
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The first few years suck -- visas are no fun -- but you're still living overseas, so it beats a lot of entry-level government work in the States. Once you get past the entry levels it gets much better. I really don't know many unhappy FSOs (well, not unhappy about the job, anyway). The attrition rate is quite low, too. What makes you sceptical about how rewarding the work would be?
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Oct 7, 2009 09:41
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Business of Ferrets posted:The first few years suck -- visas are no fun -- but you're still living overseas, so it beats a lot of entry-level government work in the States. Once you get past the entry levels it gets much better. I really don't know many unhappy FSOs (well, not unhappy about the job, anyway). The attrition rate is quite low, too. I don't want to rain on this thread, it does offer some great opportunities for people interested in being overseas and having a secure job in a time when they are becoming more scarce. To answer your question though it does seem a little like toiling in federal government bureaucracy to me.
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Oct 7, 2009 10:19
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Well, it is definitely a government job -- with all the good and the bad that entails -- so you're right about that. You're also correct that the overseas angle is a huge part of what makes this job great. I really don't think many of my colleagues around the world would say they are "toiling," because the issues they are working on are important to them. There is certainly a bureaucracy, but working in it can be very interesting and rewarding. I have worked at the Department in D.C. and found it fascinating. Ditto overseas. The job security is nice (especially these days), but most of us seem to be in this job because we just couldn't do the things we're doing anywhere else.
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Oct 7, 2009 11:44
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Business of Ferrets posted:Nice to hear that people found the FSOT easy. I do want to remind everyone that State/ACT is very strict about the nondisclosure agreement (NDA) from the test, and that any specific content of any questions should probably be edited out of posts to this thread. Most of it was sarcasm. I'm pretty sure I'm not violating anything in the NDA, but if anyone objects I'll edit it out.
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Oct 7, 2009 14:34
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Business of Ferrets posted:Of course, I didn't take it, so I can't tell what is accurate and what is sarcasm, so will leave it up to the judgment of individual posters not to include anything that could give others undue advantage (questions are reused, so the NDA holds even after the test is administered). I thought it was pretty obvious that my question was exaggerated in order to be funny (even if it was eerily on point...) If government spooks have gotten to the level where they are hanging around SA to see if I violate the NDA, there's no way I'm getting in anyway because one of 'em surely saw me masturbating on the bus the other day.
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Oct 7, 2009 14:38
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Sources give you high marks for your bus performance. . . . In seriousness, though, I didn't mean to sound like a douche. Just want to make sure nobody gets in trouble.
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Oct 7, 2009 15:06
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Alright, I'm heading in pretty soon to take my test. But I just realized something that may not be so awesome. When I was filling out my application, I forgot to write in my high school jobs because I just really haven't even thought about them in years...but I looked back over and realized that they were in 10 years so I should have written them in. Are they going to think I'm hiding poo poo from them, is there any way for me to email in the information I left out? Am I totally dead?
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Oct 7, 2009 16:11
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CherryCola posted:Alright, I'm heading in pretty soon to take my test. But I just realized something that may not be so awesome. When I was filling out my application, I forgot to write in my high school jobs because I just really haven't even thought about them in years...but I looked back over and realized that they were in 10 years so I should have written them in. Are they going to think I'm hiding poo poo from them, is there any way for me to email in the information I left out? Am I totally dead? I was kind of wondering the same thing, but from I gather I doubt that'd be the case. At first glance they may just assume you didn't have a job, and if they call you in you can bring them up and ask them to update. May be different with every agency but when I was applying for an internship, I forgot to mention my 4 month stint working at a supermarket when I was 15. I told them about it later and they didn't really bother to update it. Would be a good idea to mention them though. Gin and Juche fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Oct 7, 2009 |
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Oct 7, 2009 17:17
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I'm done! I'm not going to say that was incredibly easy. I'm definitely wishing I had more of an economic and international relations background. I'm pretty sure I aced all the management stuff and anything related to South Asia was totally in the bag. My essay could have been better, probably. Anyway, now the waiting!
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Oct 8, 2009 00:05
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CherryCola posted:Alright, I'm heading in pretty soon to take my test. But I just realized something that may not be so awesome. When I was filling out my application, I forgot to write in my high school jobs because I just really haven't even thought about them in years...but I looked back over and realized that they were in 10 years so I should have written them in. Are they going to think I'm hiding poo poo from them, is there any way for me to email in the information I left out? Am I totally dead? You'll have a chance to amend your clearance application if you get the conditional offer
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Oct 8, 2009 14:52
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Any of you guys have suggestions on some reading to keep up on? I applied to the DS position, and as far as I can tell it's a lot like what the FSOT process is like, barring a few changes. I'm an international relations degree holder so this stuff seems manageable, but sad to say I work quite a bit and don't really follow a lot of world news. People have suggested Foreign Affairs, The Economist or things like that, although they cost money. Anyone recommend any free RSS feeds that I could look at? Thanks in advance.
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Oct 8, 2009 21:29
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Your local library should have those news mags available to you. I know its not as convenient as home delivery, but its free.
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Oct 8, 2009 21:42
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Homie S posted:Any of you guys have suggestions on some reading to keep up on? I applied to the DS position, and as far as I can tell it's a lot like what the FSOT process is like, barring a few changes. I'm an international relations degree holder so this stuff seems manageable, but sad to say I work quite a bit and don't really follow a lot of world news. People have suggested Foreign Affairs, The Economist or things like that, although they cost money. Anyone recommend any free RSS feeds that I could look at? Thanks in advance. Newsweek and RealClearPolitics online; BBC World websites, etc. Read syndicated columns from major pundits, especially the foreign affairs ones - your local paper probably carries a bunch of these.
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Oct 8, 2009 22:15
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Homie S posted:Any of you guys have suggestions on some reading to keep up on? I applied to the DS position, and as far as I can tell it's a lot like what the FSOT process is like, barring a few changes. I'm an international relations degree holder so this stuff seems manageable, but sad to say I work quite a bit and don't really follow a lot of world news. People have suggested Foreign Affairs, The Economist or things like that, although they cost money. Anyone recommend any free RSS feeds that I could look at? Thanks in advance. Democracy arsenal http://www.democracyarsenal.org/ Thomas Barnett's Weblog http://thomaspmbarnett.com/weblog/ These are pretty good places to start, both bloggers are prolific and more importantly both of them link to a wide range of articles. There are some really good blogs covering regional issues, but I find these two to be good for general information. Both the economist and Foreign Policy, make their headline articles available online (and FP might be fully available online, but I've never compared it to the magazine.) TED has some really good stuff as well, but you have to dig through it, and the TEDness gets annoying quickly. (https://www.ted.com) And of course there's always LF....... Speaking of Foreign Policy magazine, they had an interesting article about the State Department recently: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/09/11/hitting_bottom_in_foggy_bottom?page=0,0 Am I crazy for wanting to get into DoS now so I can be in on the ground floor as it transforms into the State Department that we should have?
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Oct 9, 2009 04:20
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xanthig posted:Am I crazy for wanting to get into DoS now so I can be in on the ground floor as it transforms into the State Department that we should have? That depends. Does spending 8-10 hours a day processing Visa applications while dealing with Irate public who paid 300 bucks for the visa app process only to get denied and receive no refund sound good to you? How about living in shitstainia where the only entertainment is slightly passable pizza restaurant and weekly movie night at the Marine house for three years? That sound good? That's the real foreign service, not so much delivering high level demarches and forming foreign policy, that only happens when you're old and gray. That aside it IS fun and I highly reccomend it to anybody who thinks moving to a new country every three years sounds fun and who wouldn't mind giving up a lot of creature comforts in order to experience something people only read about. Focus on all that because while there are going to likely be a lot of changes coming soon that address a lot of the underlying discontent the core of the job remains the same.
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Oct 9, 2009 12:59
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Just got back from the test, about as expected. Only the essay was tough and thats only because of the time. I finished it with a minute and a half left so I barely had time to proof it. There were only 6 people taking the test including me, which was a surprise. I was expecting quite a bit more than that.
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Oct 9, 2009 16:53
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Vilerat posted:That depends. Does spending 8-10 hours a day processing Visa applications while dealing with Irate public who paid 300 bucks for the visa app process only to get denied and receive no refund sound good to you? How about living in shitstainia where the only entertainment is slightly passable pizza restaurant and weekly movie night at the Marine house for three years? That sound good? That is such a glass half empty take on the whole thing. While life overseas might be less than desired when it comes to the creature comforts, you are part of the embassy system and are going to be better off than the vast majority of locals and expats. Look at it from the glass half full perspective: - You have a place to call home during that time; most likely with electricity, hot and cold running water and working sewage. You are not sharing a bedroom with questionable strangers, fearing your money and possessions will be stolen while you sleep. - You interact with native English speakers on an almost daily basis. - If you get mugged at gunpoint and have your passport stolen, you'll have an easy time dealing with it. If you get injured while in Shitstania, there is some sort of support system, as opposed having to deal with it on your own. - You have access to the US postal drop system, meaning if you want a book from the us, it doesn't cost you $20 to ship it. - You probably aren't washing your laundry by hand in your sink every night. - Getting rolled by the local cops is a lot less worrisome than it could be. - Your employer is not going to declare bankruptcy while you're working for them in Shitstania on a one way ticket, leaving you up to your own devices to get home. - As for the dealing with pissed off visa applicants who's visas were denied; pubbie tears are always delicious. Maybe I should rephrase the original question so that it is clearer. What are the chances that State becomes the organization that has been suggested, i.e. a counter-balancne DOD's role of war making, taking over the management of America's non-war making overseas initiatives.
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Oct 9, 2009 16:54
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xanthig posted:
You sound like the ideal candidate.
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Oct 9, 2009 17:09
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xanthig posted:
Thank god I wasn't the only one thinking that.
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Oct 9, 2009 17:56
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xanthig posted:
Who knows? It's impossible to say right now and there's nothing tangible yet. Yeah I was putting a half empty outlook there but don't take that to mean I dislike it. I love the work and the environment, I just want to make sure everybody knows what they could be getting into. For every shithole you could go to you could instead get sent someplace awesome and fun. Shitholes can be fun too, but you have to like adventure.
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Oct 9, 2009 20:27
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xanthig posted:
A few things... first, Vile has been to some shitstanias or close to it while in the FS.. have you? I mean, yes if you're going to take a chance at volunteer or do a wild expat living, then yes your outlook is mostly accurate. However, you still have things like power outages (oh hey generator is of fuel whoops) or hot water goes out. Etc. I mean, it's not cush living guaranteed as you will have to put up with some hardships. Also, pubbie tears... you do realize you're the public face of America when overseas right? I mean, stamping visas and denying people is part of the job, but enjoying that poo poo is pretty reprehensible when you are in their country. As for change? I will believe it when I see it. State changes slow... very very slow. Edit: Also writing this from a Cafe with internet, which I got an awesome case of food poisoning from last weekend... It's one of the few places we can get internet outside of work, because it takes a month or two to get internet to your residence. TCD fucked around with this message at 11:42 on Oct 10, 2009 |
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Oct 10, 2009 11:30
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TCD posted:A few things... first, Vile has been to some shitstanias or close to it while in the FS.. have you? Speaking of shitholes, hows Kigali?
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Oct 10, 2009 17:05
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xanthig posted:That is such a glass half empty take on the whole thing. While life overseas might be less than desired when it comes to the creature comforts, you are part of the embassy system and are going to be better off than the vast majority of locals and expats. Look at it from the glass half full perspective: This is an interesting perspective that definitely contrasts with my own experience living overseas and meeting people who work in the US consulate. To summarize: People who work in the consulate usually seem to isolate themselves to the consulate itself, their home, and the most accessible western bar and restaurant. They don't learn the local language, all of their friends are American, and it seems like they might as well be back at home since they spend most of their off-time watching DVDs at home or drinking beers with other people who work in the consulate. They most likely get paid more than the majority of other foreigners but they appear to live somewhat of a meaningless existence. This is my anecdotal evidence and I don't mean to contradict the reports of people who've actually done this kind of work because I have not. However, I have spent several years living nearly across the street from an American consulate in Asia, meeting half a dozen or so people who work in the consulate so I don't think I'm totally off base. But with the US consulate being a fortress guarded 24/7 by armed guards and it being mostly filled with people who probably have a very limited understanding of what's happening outside those walls, people who work in the consulate don't carry the best reputation.
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Oct 10, 2009 17:57
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ProdigalSon posted:This is an interesting perspective that definitely contrasts with my own experience living overseas and meeting people who work in the US consulate. To summarize: Well we're only there between 2-3 years and it's very difficult to learn a language without formal education if you aren't immersed. If you don't have some sort of angle into the local community it gets brutal trying to break in the social circles.
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Oct 10, 2009 19:06
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TCD posted:A few things... first, Vile has been to some shitstanias or close to it while in the FS.. have you? Why turn this into a dick measuring contest? My point is, what constitutes hardship living overseas can vary greatly depending on one's experience prior to joining the state department. ProdigalSon's post accurately describes the perspective many expats living in Shitstania have of DoS employees. It may or may not be true to reality, but when your experience in Shitstania is making GBS threads in ditches, eating only local fare for months on end and maybe occasionally meeting another american once in a while, life behind the embassy wall looks cushy. TCD posted:Also, pubbie tears... you do realize you're the public face of America when overseas right? I mean, stamping visas and denying people is part of the job, but enjoying that poo poo is pretty reprehensible when you are in their country. That line was an inside joke, a shout out to a particular school of diplomacy. Although it was inadvertent, you got trolled son. TCD posted:As for change? I will believe it when I see it. State changes slow... very very slow. Why? By all accounts, State is, and has been for a long time, on the descendant in terms of infleunce and importance to foreign policy. Shouldn't the institutional instinct for self preservation kick in at some point?
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Oct 10, 2009 19:17
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Vilerat posted:Well we're only there between 2-3 years and it's very difficult to learn a language without formal education if you aren't immersed. If you don't have some sort of angle into the local community it gets brutal trying to break in the social circles. Those are good points - I'm just reporting the situation as I see it from outside of the consulate. I'm sure there's a lot about working there that I don't know.
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Oct 10, 2009 19:27
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