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Nesnej posted:France, seeking to outdo everyone else, even manages to have two traction current standards within the same drat country. There's a similar situation in the UK. South of London almost all the railways as electrified though 3rd rail. The rest of country is split between no electrification and overhead wire. While we have a few electric freight trains, most of them are diesel because of this.
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Jan 16, 2010 14:35
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Fabulous thread! As we're on the subject of France more-or-less (and coming back to roads) I would like to know why so many French road junctions don't have markings (or is it just around here (south-west France)?) It's like the traffic engineers know they've made a bodge up and just think, "gently caress it, the drivers will work it out for themselves." An example. It doesn't look too bad but it's basically three lanes in, four out and then goes down to two lanes as the road goes round the corner towards the motorway slip road. Everyone's undertaking and switching lanes like crazy to get the advantage when it goes to two lanes and there are no markings through the two junctions or round the bend at all, you just have to battle it out. Compared to the UK where junctions have guiding lines across them it just seems lazy on the part of the engineers. And considering the French have so many roundabouts it's a shame they don't really know how to use them (so says this Brit anyway  ). That said, a town nearby was the last in France to change from "priorité a droite" for their roundabouts. This means the cars entering the roundabout had priority over those already in the roundabout. It was total chaos even for the locals. They've now switched them to a more normal configuration, but you can see from the roundabout shapes that it used to be different. I guess then I'd also like to know what effect the "priorité a droite" rule has on road designing, as you said you'd done some work over here. All this roundabout talk brings me to another question - why do many French roundabouts have roads coming in to them at right angles? In the UK, roads entering roundabouts are usually curved to aid your entry to the roundabout but over here you often find yourself at right angles to the traffic flow. It seems less efficient somehow, but it's so widespread I assume there must be some logic behind it? Ninja edit: Why are all the Continental European motorway slip roads so curly while the English ones are a lot straighter? German ones are the worst, but French ones are pretty awkward too, often popping you out into a stream of motorway traffic doing 80 mph at around the 35 mph you had to slow down to to get round the bend, making merging interesting, to say the least.
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Jan 16, 2010 22:50
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Ringlet_Bob posted:Fabulous thread! Cat tracks across the intersection would help to guide, but if it's as chaotic as you say, they'd quickly get worn down and it would be a maintenance nightmare to keep them shiny. Our cat tracks here barely last 3 years and they're hardly getting run over. (You know France; nobody would pay attention to them, anyway.) quote:And considering the French have so many roundabouts it's a shame they don't really know how to use them (so says this Brit anyway The biggest impact is on the potential congestion that Priorité à Droite creates in roundabouts. A normal roundabout, when loaded to capacity, acts like an all-way stop. The traffic circulating goes around normally, exiting when they want to, and the number of gaps limits the incoming volume. However, when circulating traffic needs to yield to incoming traffic, it can easily gridlock, blocking anyone from entering or leaving. I'll mention the geometric difference in about 5 seconds. quote:All this roundabout talk brings me to another question - why do many French roundabouts have roads coming in to them at right angles? In the UK, roads entering roundabouts are usually curved to aid your entry to the roundabout but over here you often find yourself at right angles to the traffic flow. It seems less efficient somehow, but it's so widespread I assume there must be some logic behind it? The right-angle entrance is much safer, because it forces incoming traffic to slow down to ~15 mph. The lower speed reduces accidents and reduces the severity of those accidents that do occur. It also gives pedestrians a chance to dash across the crosswalk without risking their lives. We used to build roundabouts here where the entrance flares were tangent to the circle, and people take them at 40-50 mph. Now, we redesign them to slow entering traffic down. Here's an example in Killingworth, CT. The old roundabout :  The revised design (now built):  quote:Ninja edit: Why are all the Continental European motorway slip roads so curly while the English ones are a lot straighter? German ones are the worst, but French ones are pretty awkward too, often popping you out into a stream of motorway traffic doing 80 mph at around the 35 mph you had to slow down to to get round the bend, making merging interesting, to say the least. I don't know the exact reason; likely because of right-of-way constraints. Ramps on tollways are bound to snake around a bit due to the toll booth. Generally, they use dual trumpet interchanges with the booth on the straight section between them. That could explain a lot of the curvature you're talking about.
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Jan 17, 2010 01:46
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Deleted. Probation.
I LIKE FROSTYS fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Feb 12, 2011 |
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Jan 17, 2010 02:03
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M R CRACKER posted:1. If you are driving and a guy drives on yellow, do you think it's ok, or do you want him to stop and get mad, or do you think just to redesign the stoplights to fix that. I think there should be 4 lights. 2 yellows where one is like "you can go but hurry up" and another one that's like "don't go it's about to be red." Or maybe a continuous rainbow type of system. So if it's orange you're like, better stop. I'm not an engineer. Just wondering. This goes back to dilemma zone detection and all-red clearance. The short answer is that people are supposed to run the yellow. With a perfectly designed signal, we still expect that 10% of people will run the red. As to extra warning, studies have shown that, no matter how fast people are going, they'll stop if they can within three seconds. Anything longer or more extensive than that is essentially useless. There's some disagreement on this issue still, so you never know if the next MUTCD will have us putting in persimmon-colored lights  quote:2. Do you take into account different cars. Some can speed up really fast, other cars can brake fast. Or is it just designed for an average car like a Kia. Not too fast or slow. We use 10 feet per second squared as our decel rate. Most cars can stop much faster than that, but we have to take into account schoolbuses and trucks and old drivers and crappy tires and brakes. Next time you're driving, and there's nobody behind you, try to brake at 10 fps^2 (drop about 6 mph in one second). It's not entirely uncomfortable, but still rather jarring. We don't expect drivers to stop any faster than that. quote:3. How far back do you put the signs? If it says Speed Limit 25 and it's 35 before that, how much warning do you get, or are you screwed as soon as you see it. Maybe you don't think it's screwed, but if you're a driver, it can really get you, the cops will wait and then give you a ticket. I don't do enforcement; that's entirely a police thing. Our signs, though, should be visible for enough distance ahead to give you time to read it, understand you have to slow down, and slow down to the required speed. 10 mph isn't much; you might need 4 seconds to read and understand the sign, then another 1.5 to drop the 10 mph. At 35 mph, that's about 300 feet, which is really a very small distance. quote:4. Do you prefer when there's a lot of traffic, so you're doing your job, or just a few cars. I have to drive, too, so I like it when there's no traffic. I'd have a job to do even if 90% of people just decided to walk to work. Most of my job isn't adding capacity or building roads, but rather replacing stuff that's in bad shape or fixing safety issues (realigning dangerous intersections, putting in guide rail, etc.)
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Jan 17, 2010 02:14
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Do you know if they will ever repair this bridge that is on the corner of E. Ferry St and Fairmont Ave, and, on the other side, can be seen on 26 River St in New Haven? It's more of a curiosity question, for about 10 years that bridge has been closed, I haven't heard any news if they are repairing it or they will just abandon it all together. So it just sits there. On google, 26 River St, and Fairmont + E. Ferry ends show the road closed signs. Sorry I don't have a map to show what I am talking about. 
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Jan 17, 2010 07:58
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naguchanzilla posted:Do you know if they will ever repair this bridge that is on the corner of E. Ferry St and Fairmont Ave, and, on the other side, can be seen on 26 River St in New Haven? That's a city road, so it'd be up to New Haven to fix it. I doubt their finances are looking too rosy at the moment. I can ask some of the District 3 guys if they know anything about it, though, when I go back to work.
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Jan 17, 2010 17:31
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Cichlidae posted:Cat tracks across the intersection would help to guide, but if it's as chaotic as you say, they'd quickly get worn down and it would be a maintenance nightmare to keep them shiny. Our cat tracks here barely last 3 years and they're hardly getting run over. (You know France; nobody would pay attention to them, anyway.) Cichlidae posted:The right-angle entrance is much safer, because it forces incoming traffic to slow down to ~15 mph. Cichlidae posted:Ramps on tollways are bound to snake around a bit due to the toll booth. Generally, they use dual trumpet interchanges with the booth on the straight section between them. That could explain a lot of the curvature you're talking about. Thanks for casting some light on the French road designing psyche! And just in case you didn't get it, I HATE driving here, French drivers are stupid and selfish. And IMHO French road designers are all idiots (except you, but it doesn't sound the you were there long enough to make a difference). That's why I cycle to work. M R CRACKER posted:I think there should be 4 lights. 2 yellows where one is like "you can go but hurry up" and another one that's like "don't go it's about to be red." Or maybe a continuous rainbow type of system. So if it's orange you're like, better stop. I'm not an engineer. Just wondering.
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Jan 17, 2010 22:26
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I thought I would add some content of my own to your thread (hope you don't mind). Presenting: Highways of the Motor City As you may imagine, Metro Detroit's transportation infrastructure is dominated by the car. The Big Three made sure that mass transit was kept out of the area. Detroit is home to America's first freeway. The Davidson (most Michigan highways are named and referred to as such instead of my their number) was planned in 1941 as a replacement for Davison Avenue and opened on November 25, 1942. Today, at 5.5 miles long, the highway connects M-10 (The Lodge) and I-75. Davidson turns into an avenue west of M-10 and connects with I-96. M-10 (known as The Lodge) connects Downtown Detroit with the Oakland County community of Southfield. After it passes the interchange with I-696 and Telegraph Rd. (US 24) it becomes known as Northwestern Highway and is a two lane divided avenue. Fun fact, M-10 was supposed to continue west after it's current end at Orchard Lake road and meet up with a proposed northern extension of I-275. Due to the number of lakes and wetlands in Oakland County and high income homeowners, those projects were both canceled and the OC doesn't really have much in the way of highways north of Farmington Hills and east of Troy. When they did work on Northwestern Hwy a few years ago, the DOT installed unusually big shoulders (you can see them if you zoom in on Google Maps). The reason? They are actually lanes in disguise. As part of the "NIMBY" attitude in Oakland County to highways, no roads over 2 lanes are permitted. However, the engineers felt that M-10 might one day need the extra lanes and built them as shoulders. If the laws are ever changed, all they did to do is change the stripes! The interchange where M-10 and I-696 meet is one of the more infamous in Metro Detroit. Check it out. It has undergone a lot of work recently, but there are still many problems. One notable issues: The ramps from Southbound Telegraph road to North M-10 has a problem of people using that ramp and then cutting across 5 lanes of traffic to get on West I-696. DESPITE the same ramp offering the ability to get on 696 without making a suicide attempt. To try and keep people from taking the M-10 exit to try and get to 696, the state first put up two big signs that say "ACCESS TO I-696 PROHIBITED" (even though the signs are also next to real 696 ramp). That didn't convince people, I guess, because the state then put up barriers in the merge zone to physically stop people from changing lanes right away. Unfortunately.... the barrier doesn't go past the ramp onto 696 from M-10 and thus people still attempt to make the maneuver to this day. That interchange also has a lot of locations of weaving. Especially on the ramp from Northbound Telegraph to M-10 North. The curve requires cars on the ramp to slow down to 20, but they still try to enter traffic going 70 or more as soon as they get on the freeway. Finally, the most massive interchange you have ever seen. It features the termination point of two interstates, the pass through of a third, a Michigan highway, and a surface street for good measure. Actually, I think it is pretty well designed despite its massive size. There are only a few sections where weaving happens and only one where it is really bad. Like I said earlier, I-275 was supposed to continue north from here where M-5 currently is now. It would extend through Oakland County and meet back up with I-75 in the Clarkston area.
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Jan 19, 2010 04:54
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Zero One posted:
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Jan 19, 2010 05:16
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But look at all the "wasted" space that the 96/696/275 interchange has. I'll admit those examples are very complicated, but they are also very compact.
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Jan 19, 2010 06:15
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Regarding the NY one, brings back memories of driving to JFK airport, and all the hassle it ensued. I remember the Van Wyck expressway and how worn out the pavement was. There were wheel ruts, and if you changed lanes, you went BUMP! BUMP!
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Jan 19, 2010 08:21
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Can I just use this thread to point out that if you are a driver, and you routinely don't indicate, you're a oval office of the highest order. I'm sick of nearly being mown down while crossing a road because a car went somewhere I wasn't expecting to. Also, interesting that rail has come up in the thread, I've been playing OpenTTD to death lately.
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Jan 19, 2010 15:31
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Zero One posted:I thought I would add some content of my own to your thread (hope you don't mind). Not quite, we have some built in the 1930s. quote:M-10 (known as The Lodge) ... If the laws are ever changed, all they did to do is change the stripes! We have a freeway here named the John D Lodge Turnpike. As to the wide shoulders, that's quite clever. Most of our wide shoulders here are the result of bad planning, not good. quote:The interchange where M-10 and I-696 meet is one of the more infamous in Metro Detroit. I've spent many an hour diagramming and pondering that interchange myself. Lots and lots of left exits and weaving. Cichlidae fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Jan 19, 2010 |
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Jan 19, 2010 17:25
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naguchanzilla posted:Regarding the NY one, brings back memories of driving to JFK airport, and all the hassle it ensued. I remember the Van Wyck expressway and how worn out the pavement was. There were wheel ruts, and if you changed lanes, you went BUMP! BUMP! The corrugated metal deck on the old Jamestown Bridge was the same way. Straying a few inches from the worn path would result in a jarring "BRRRRRRR" and losing control of your car. thehustler posted:Can I just use this thread to point out that if you are a driver, and you routinely don't indicate, you're a oval office of the highest order. I'm sick of nearly being mown down while crossing a road because a car went somewhere I wasn't expecting to. Especially in Rhode Island, where "blinkers" are rarely used. I give probably more warning than I should, but I don't want to get rear-ended.
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Jan 19, 2010 17:41
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Cichlidae posted:Especially in Rhode Island, where "blinkers" are rarely used. I give probably more warning than I should, but I don't want to get rear-ended. My mother called them "clinkers" because of the noise cars used to make when you activate them, with actual bells or buzzers. Today, it's more like a "tick-tick-tick-tick-tick" that doesn't seem to correspond to actual blinking of the lights.
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Jan 19, 2010 19:44
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Cichlidae posted:Not quite, we have some built in the 1930s. I always liked going on the Merritt, especially as a passenger, I'd look at all the different bridges. The Wilbur Cross part of the parkway is boring, although they did fix that lousy exit ramp that leads on the Dixwell Ave. (At least,I think it was Dixwell...)
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Jan 19, 2010 20:48
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Was googling to find a specific bridge on the Merritt that I always liked, then found this site that seems to have, well, all of them: http://www.themerrittparkway.com/  Flash navigation is kind of annoying (have to wait a few seconds after mousing over one of the dots, before clicks will actually activate them) and the photos are a little artsy, but still neat stuff.
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Jan 19, 2010 22:13
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Cichlidae posted:Not quite, we have some built in the 1930s. I've been lied to my whole life! Actually, I guess it is the "first urban, depressed freeway in the United States."
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Jan 20, 2010 00:29
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Zero One posted:I've been lied to my whole life! I'd be depressed, too, if I was stranded in Detroit. naguchanzilla posted:I always liked going on the Merritt, especially as a passenger, I'd look at all the different bridges. The Wilbur Cross part of the parkway is boring, although they did fix that lousy exit ramp that leads on the Dixwell Ave. (At least,I think it was Dixwell...) I still remember driving on it when I was a little kid on the way to the midwest. I don't think my family's been on it since, but I still remember the nice bridges, and my Dad thinks it still has tolls. Cichlidae fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jan 20, 2010 |
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Jan 20, 2010 01:54
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Ok, I have a question about Interstate/Freeway numbering that was inspired by Tacoma, WA's I-705. First off, why in the hell is there a N/S interstate numbered 705 in Washington state? Does it have something to do with the fact that it's a short spur of some kind, and directly connects to I-5? How are spurs like that generally numbered, and are there still other strange routes that are numbered differently from their main brethren? I've heard of "Bypasses" and the like, but I'm not sure if that's just a state thing. Thanks!
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Jan 21, 2010 00:36
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Solkanar512 posted:Ok, I have a question about Interstate/Freeway numbering that was inspired by Tacoma, WA's I-705. Yep, that's it. Spur three-digit interstates are made by appending an odd number to their parent interstate number, in this case, 7 + 05. Bypasses and loops, on the other hand, begin with an even number. California (I-80) and New York (I-90) each have or had a "full set" of three-digit interstates, that is, I-190 through I-990 in New York's case. Which compass direction a three-digit interstate goes has very little to do with its number. quote:How are spurs like that generally numbered, and are there still other strange routes that are numbered differently from their main brethren? I've heard of "Bypasses" and the like, but I'm not sure if that's just a state thing. I-238 in California should have been I-X80, but since all the X80s were taken, it was assigned a brand new number. There's no I-38. Bypasses and business routes are signed alternates to a route. Sometimes a bypass is actually an interstate with its own designation, but the state DOTs don't put up signs for it because it would get rather confusing. What gets really funny is when you start looking at direction and exit numbering on circumferential routes, but that's a story for another time!
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Jan 21, 2010 01:16
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When are you going to fix my freeways in LA? Ok serious question now, can one enter this field with just a BS in General Civil Engineering as that's what I'm currently studying and I have no options to do any sort of transportation engineering until I start my masters(I'm only offered geospatial, enviromental and general civil at this point). Also what other sorts of cool jobs does a degree with a Transportation Engineering concentration qualify you for? Also regarding the freeways here in the LA area, what do you think of them?  Would you ever do this to people?
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Jan 21, 2010 07:37
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Cichlidae posted:Yep, that's it. Spur three-digit interstates are made by appending an odd number to their parent interstate number, in this case, 7 + 05. Bypasses and loops, on the other hand, begin with an even number. California (I-80) and New York (I-90) each have or had a "full set" of three-digit interstates, that is, I-190 through I-990 in New York's case. Which compass direction a three-digit interstate goes has very little to do with its number.
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Jan 21, 2010 08:08
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Question about signal actuation: I'm going down a main road and want to make a left at a standard 4-way signaled intersection. Currently, the traffic signal is green on the side road. The side road turns yellow and intends to switch to green straights on the main road, but a millisecond later, I trip the left-turn sensor. Does the signal box recalculate where to put the next green? If there are no cars being sensed on the straight approaches, shouldn't the signal do some thinking and then give me a left-turn green immediately? Or is the next green phase set in stone when the previous green phase starts winding down? I know this is kind of a strange question, but I've always wondered this 
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Jan 21, 2010 08:41
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How uncommon is this type of intersection? Google Link Basically, on the southbound side of I20, it exits and there is no stop sign for traffic turning either direction from the exit ramp. Where the first blue arrow in the attached image (2nd arrow in the link) is where the traffic coming off doesn't stop.
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Jan 21, 2010 08:59
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So I know this isn't exactly your forte / specialization, but I saw this today and thought it was super cool Slime Mold Networks! Also, you'll note this is a repost, hosted by MSNBC, and when I typed "slime mold" into the Bing search box at the top of MSNBC's home page, this article did not show up. sigh.
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Jan 21, 2010 23:41
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Wolfy posted:When are you going to fix my freeways in LA? Give me a few billion dollars and a couple decades and I'll get right on it. quote:Ok serious question now, can one enter this field with just a BS in General Civil Engineering as that's what I'm currently studying and I have no options to do any sort of transportation engineering until I start my masters(I'm only offered geospatial, enviromental and general civil at this point). Also what other sorts of cool jobs does a degree with a Transportation Engineering concentration qualify you for? I have degrees in Civil Engineering, French, and German. With my experience and specialization, I'd be most qualified to design roads, analyze them, or supervise their construction. A general civil engineering degree is what most of my coworkers have, as well, and it's the most appropriate start, as I don't know of any places that give BS in transportation engineering. quote:Also regarding the freeways here in the LA area, what do you think of them? I'm not very impressed. I figured with such a spread-out city, it would have been easier to reserve large swaths of land for freeways, or at least develop some more sensible urban planning. The freeways themselves are pretty robust and the interchanges are high-capacity, though they're still rather congested, and certainly have contributed negatively to the city's sprawl. quote:Would you ever do this to people? Do what, exactly? Let them walk on the freeway? Build a ramp immediately adjacent to a road? Put regulatory and guide signs on the same post? All three of those are pretty bad ideas.
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Jan 22, 2010 01:32
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Mandalay posted:Question about signal actuation: Signal controllers are REALLY stupid. They decide which phase gets served at the end of the previous green, so if you're a millisecond too late, you'll have to wait a full cycle for your green. I've seen hinted that it's possible for a controller to wait until the end of the all-red, but none of ours have the intellectual capacity to do that.
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Jan 22, 2010 01:35
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uapyro posted:How uncommon is this type of intersection? That is an odd situation; I assume the road heading to the North has a very low volume. If I were designing it, I'd still bring the ramp to a stop sign, because sooner or later, it might serve heavier volumes. If you put in a stop sign or a signal where there wasn't one before, you're going to get a tremendous amount of accidents, especially at an off-ramp! Stew Man Chew posted:So I know this isn't exactly your forte / specialization, but I saw this today and thought it was super cool Very cool article! I've wondered about that sort of thing before, but I never thought about using light to simulate mountains to discourage growth there. Taking it one step further, you could use it to simulate building costs, higher in highly built-up areas and steep terrain or wetlands. A computer model could accomplish the same thing, maybe with a better degree of customization, but slime molds come pre-programmed!
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Jan 22, 2010 01:40
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Cichlidae posted:Signal controllers are REALLY stupid. They decide which phase gets served at the end of the previous green, so if you're a millisecond too late, you'll have to wait a full cycle for your green. I've seen hinted that it's possible for a controller to wait until the end of the all-red, but none of ours have the intellectual capacity to do that.
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Jan 22, 2010 02:21
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238 should just have been signed CA 238 SOUTH TO EAST 580 in one direction and CA 238 NORTH TO NORTH 880 in the other direction
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Jan 22, 2010 03:35
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Socket Ryanist posted:238 should just have been signed  You just reminded me of this. Edit: I think they realized they had one too many 580s there, and not enough 80. But it's still confusing as hell, because West 80 and East 580 are going South, and then East 80 and West 580 are going North. Calast fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Jan 22, 2010 |
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Jan 22, 2010 06:35
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 My favorite signage
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Jan 22, 2010 07:33
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Cichlidae posted:
Wolfy fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Jan 22, 2010 |
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Jan 22, 2010 08:16
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Calast posted:
I know exactly where that is, because I used to commute on Ashby in college, and this reminds me. The City of Berkeley in its infinite wisdom decided to let CA-13, a four-lane road, lose the curbside lanes to parking during most of the day. There's plenty of side street parking, but no, those fuckers get to park on a major arterial, the only CA route surface street to bisect the city.  gently caress, if I got to design my own city, I'd outlaw on-street parking except on very suburban 25-mph streets. Let people bear the real cost of parking spaces.. e: I understand that on-street parking is a calming measure and the City loves the poo poo out of traffic calming. But it's A MAIN ARTERY and gosh darn it, it's loving inefficient
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Jan 22, 2010 08:25
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Mandalay posted:I know exactly where that is, because I used to commute on Ashby in college, and this reminds me. The City of Berkeley in its infinite wisdom decided to let CA-13, a four-lane road, lose the curbside lanes to parking during most of the day. There's plenty of side street parking, but no, those fuckers get to park on a major arterial, the only CA route surface street to bisect the city. My favorite is the times right at the edge of when you can park there, so you're going down the right hand lane, come around a bend, and there's a car parked illegally in your lane. Ashby's bad, but at least that's consistent for blocks and blocks; I hate this one here: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=sacramento+and+hopkins%2C+berkeley+ca  On the Northbound (East side) that right hand lane is parking in off peak hours, and on weekends. For this little 1.5 blocks (on the North end, there's a long right turn lane).   Of course Google came by when there's no parking there, but usually it's a sad mockery of reasonable traffic flow.
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Jan 22, 2010 11:09
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Mandalay posted:the only CA route surface street to bisect the city.  you forget san pablo ave (aka route 123)
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Jan 22, 2010 13:03
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Saw a hell of an odd glitch the other morning; one of the traffic lights down the street from where I live was showing a green and yellow light at the same time on the main road (both steady, not blinking). Wasn't there long enough to see what happened on the rest of the cycle, but it had traffic backed up way down the road past my place because no one knew what the gently caress was going on with it and everyone was slowing down while trying to figure it out.
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Jan 22, 2010 14:57
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Large Hardon Collider posted:Twice I've gotten stuck at a never-ending red crossing route 1 on an at-grade main street, and I have to back up and trip the sensor again. What causes that? I'm driving a substantial car, too, not a plastic scooter, so it shouldn't have any problems actuating the sensor. First off, loop detectors have a hard time with slow-moving vehicles. Our spec specifies that they should detect anything above 1/10 of a mile per hour, but loops get old, get out of calibration, and stop working properly. I'd suggest finding who owns the signal and letting them know; they can probably get the Maintenance guys to take a look. Socket Ryanist posted:238 should just have been signed We do this for SR 796, which has interchanges with I-95, CT 15, US 1, and a local road. Calast posted:You just reminded me of this. Wrong-way concurrencies are a huge pain in the rear end, aren't they? If only we had a 6-pointed compass!
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Jan 22, 2010 18:24
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