|
There is video here now. Looks really laggy. I hope that was just because they were on a slow connection.
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 09:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 21:14 |
|
|
bull3964 posted:Now Tivo has a countdown on their website (which many have pointed out prevents them from scheduling remotely now, another middle finger to current users.) The countdown will be gone in just a few hours, but the limited functionality mobile site at http://m.tivo.com still works.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 10:22
|
|
|
countdown is gone now, and on one of the pages it mentions a new directv partnership. http://www.tivo.com/products/source/satellite/tivo-directv/index.html
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 13:21
|
|
|
Greenfield posted:There is video here now. Looks really laggy. I hope that was just because they were on a slow connection. That circular "busy" icon looks exactly like 7MC's. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 15:28
|
|
|
bull3964 posted:Even then, not really. Internet streaming is old hat at this point. It's a bullet point on many new blu-ray players, we have dedicated small boxes that specialize in this sort of thing that don't have to worry about pissing off MSOs, we have sub $300 netbooks and nettops that can deliver this content. Yeah, but I think if netflix (or another all-you-can-eat provider) offered up the entire library, it would be an entirely different experience. Say you just started recording show X but its now in season 3. From the NPL being able to see the whole back catalog, and just start watching as if you had recorded them? That's revolutionary. No longer are tuner conflicts (or cable package subscriptions really) a prime concern-- just look up the show and start watching. It's like a boxee or xbmc box connected to a server with every show, ever. With the internet speed I've got, netflix HD looks as good as broadcast HD so a series 4 with that kind of back catalog support would be much more compelling. The more I think about it, this may have been what they were going for-- but they didn't plan on content providers being so stingy still. I don't know why, with the series 4 and a full back catalog, everybody wins: Tivo: Still paying the monthly subscription. CableCo: Still subscribed to _some_ level of service + internet. Netflix: at least 9/mo, if not more. Content Owners: Double dipping, cable and netflix revenues. The added bonus of competing with free-- if the above scenario occured I'd certainly stop looking for TV from other sources. And when they finished the series 4, but the streamable content was still minimal, they waited, and waited-- then said screw it, people will pay for a $300 Flash platform. But I doubt it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 16:25
|
|
|
Yeah, but why buy Tivo, pay a monthly fee to tivo (or lifetime sub which basically makes the hardware $700) and pay a monthly fee to netflix when you could get a Roku, boxee, xbox 360, PS3, Wii, newer blu-ray player, or even a nettop which give you netflix for a sub $300 price without any monthly fees as well as gives you content that Tivo can't? That's the thing I think TiVo is really glossing over. Yeah, it's nice to have everything integrated into one box, but it's still not really bringing anything new to the table either and each one of those alternatives to stream netflix has functionality that TiVo doesn't have too. I can easily see a day a few years from now where nearly everything in my entertainment center will be capable of streaming netflix (including the TV) among other sources. Then TiVo will lose all of the convenience factor and be left to compete on the merits of the way it handles regular old cable TV and they've done zero innovation in the space since 2006.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 16:46
|
|
|
bull3964 posted:Yeah, but why buy Tivo, pay a monthly fee to tivo (or lifetime sub which basically makes the hardware $700) and pay a monthly fee to netflix when you could get a Roku, boxee, xbox 360, PS3, Wii, newer blu-ray player, or even a nettop which give you netflix for a sub $300 price without any monthly fees as well as gives you content that Tivo can't? People buy tivos so they dont have to use the super lovely motorola boxes that cable providers give out.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 16:47
|
|
|
Don Lapre posted:People buy tivos so they dont have to use the super lovely motorola boxes that cable providers give out. Actually they don't. That's the problem. They've sold maybe 300,000 Series 3/HD models since 2006 (and that's being generous). Their subscriber base is plummeting like crazy. People aren't buying TiVos anymore. And honestly, I have one of those "super lovely" motorola boxes (though the Verizon IME much better than Comcast's) and it's totally adequate for the amount of content I'm capable of storing on the thing. I do want more out of a DVR, but TiVo isn't delivering it. TiVo needs to decide if they want to go after the masses or the enthusiasts community and adjust accordingly. The current hardware is fine for the masses, but way too expensive. The current prices are fine with enthusiasts, but they are missing functionality to make it really compelling. They are caught somewhere in between, and no one is buying. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Mar 3, 2010 |
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 16:58
|
|
|
bull3964 posted:Actually they don't. That's the problem. They've sold maybe 300,000 Series 3/HD models since 2006 (and that's being generous). Their subscriber base is plummeting like crazy. People aren't buying TiVos anymore. Well the few people that do/did buy tivos, i know thats why i bought one. But then i returned it cause Comcast could never get cablecards working right. I eventually switched to directv and their boxes have been excellent.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 17:00
|
|
|
bull3964 posted:Yeah, but why buy Tivo, pay a monthly fee to tivo (or lifetime sub which basically makes the hardware $700) and pay a monthly fee to netflix when you could get a Roku, boxee, xbox 360, PS3, Wii, newer blu-ray player, or even a nettop which give you netflix for a sub $300 price without any monthly fees as well as gives you content that Tivo can't? It's all about the presentation and integration. Sure, if netflix offered a back catalog you could get it from any netflix device, but live tv is still important-- its why one of the top requested features in xbmc is DVR frontend support. So now you've got this device, whose core DVR functionality is near the top but with a polished interface and slick integration with other content sources in a seamless experience. Is it expensive? Sure-- but so is any other "out of the box just works" DVR like moxi or an OEM MCE7 system.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 17:50
|
|
|
Welp. That was a really lackluster announcement. I *hate* my cable providers DVR box. The interface sucks. It's terrible at recognizing new shows from repeats. Every now and then, I go on a week long trip for work, and come home to find that it missed 3 new shows because their series recordings just randomly disappeared... And I can't customize the channel listings to show only HD+standard channels I don't get in HD. Hell, I can't even show only channels I subscribe to, so I have like 200 digital channels listed that I don't even get. So I was seriously thinking about getting a Tivo. But if it's 13 a month and 300+ for hardware... not so much. I already have an Xbox for my Netflix. I think when I change apartments this summer I should just make it a point to find someone that will let me put a dish on a balcony and switch to satellite.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 18:17
|
|
|
Qwijib0 posted:Is it expensive? Sure-- but so is any other "out of the box just works" DVR like moxi or an OEM MCE7 system. Expensive is a relative term. 2 tuner Moxi with a 500gb hard drive and lifetime service is $499. A 2 tuner Tivo with a 320gb hard drive and lifetime service is $698. Some may think Tivo offers $200 worth of better experience, I'm a little skeptical of that. To put the price in perspective, $799 (only $100 more than the single Lifetime Tivo) gets you a 3 tuner Moxi with an extender box, giving you a true two room HD solution that even includes live TV. Hell, it's very likely you would be able to put together a MCE solution with cablecard tuner for under $700 before the year is out and you would then be able to use any PC as an extender. Being someone that hasn't bought a 3rd party DVR since ReplayTV, it's very hard to ignore these massive price/functionality differences. I sincerely believe that TiVo isn't going to be in the hardware game much longer. What was released yesterday was a dev platform for a new software stack that was designed to port easily to other devices. Making DVRs isn't their core business anymore and they demonstrated that very plainly yesterday.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 18:19
|
|
|
bull3964 posted:Hell, it's very likely you would be able to put together a MCE solution with cablecard tuner for under $700 before the year is out and you would then be able to use any PC as an extender. I agree with everything except this. PCs can't act as extenders in MCE, unfortunately. You can hook a second MCE PC up to your network and look at shared recordings, but they won't play if they are DRMd, you won't get a shared guide/scheduling, and you'd effectivly have two PCs you'd need to maintain settings for to be "the same". A true extender, like the XBOX 360, lets you do all those things but it's the only extender in town, at the moment. Frustrating, but maybe Microsoft will figure it out soon.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 18:24
|
|
|
bull3964 posted:Expensive is a relative term. 2 tuner Moxi with a 500gb hard drive and lifetime service is $499. A 2 tuner Tivo with a 320gb hard drive and lifetime service is $698. Some may think Tivo offers $200 worth of better experience, I'm a little skeptical of that. With a complete netflix back catalog, absolutely worth $200 more. Without? not at all-- which is where we stand today. (forgive me if we're arguing the same point here  )bull3964 posted:I sincerely believe that TiVo isn't going to be in the hardware game much longer. What was released yesterday was a dev platform for a new software stack that was designed to port easily to other devices. Making DVRs isn't their core business anymore and they demonstrated that very plainly yesterday. This I believe as well.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 18:38
|
|
|
I thought they had resolved the whole shared recordings and DRM thing with windows 7? I know it's not listed as a limitation in this MSDN blog posting even though they do mention the copy freely tag in relation to actually copying the media, it's just not mentioned in streaming. http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/Sarah/How-to-Use-Digital-Cable-Tuners-with-CableCARD-in-Windows-7-Media-Center/ Qwijib0 posted:With a complete netflix back catalog, absolutely worth $200 more. Without? not at all-- which is where we stand today. That's the thing though, how is netflix on Tivo itself worth $200 when $200 will give you netflix AND hulu on Boxee Box? Netflix integration has reached the tipping point in CE features. Inclusion is no longer the reason to buy a particular product so much as lack of netflix is a reason not to buy a product. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Mar 3, 2010 |
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 18:43
|
|
|
Is there any word on if existing DVR Expander drives will be compatible with this? I see zero reason why not, but I'd love an affirmation. Edit: Confirmed, the external drives will still work. Golbez fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Mar 3, 2010 |
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 18:49
|
|
|
Looking at the offers TiVo has on their site, they're not doing Lifetime transfers, they're just giving $200 off a fresh one, which is vastly preferable considering I can probably flip my S3+1TB for about what a Premiere+$200 Lifetime would cost. I've been looking at Moxi since it's been mentioned here, and maybe it's the fresh eyes on it, but wow, that UI looks and reads terribly; I can't imagine my kids/mother trying to work their way through that. Three-tuner system looks sweet as hell, but the other stuff (DLNA, extenders) I either have other solutions for, or I don't have need for right now, and certainly aren't worth losing the ~~~**TiVo Experience**~~~.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 19:06
|
|
|
You better be sure that the new Premieres allow as easy of a hard drive upgrade as the old ones. Otherwise it would suck to sell off your 1TB S3 for a 320gb model.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 19:14
|
|
|
bull3964 posted:You better be sure that the new Premieres allow as easy of a hard drive upgrade as the old ones. Otherwise it would suck to sell off your 1TB S3 for a 320gb model. With eSATA, I'm not overly concerned about it, but that is definitely something I'm trying to find an answer for. I can't imagine it won't be, but hey, stranger things have happened.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 20:01
|
|
|
bull3964 posted:I thought they had resolved the whole shared recordings and DRM thing with windows 7? All other netflix implementations log you in to a netflix interface, where you can view your instant queue (And sometimes search or browse). A tivo-ized* implementation that abstracts netflix through the NPL and tivo search appeals to me in that it's a seamless extension of the tivo's core functionality, watching TV on my terms. And in the universe where netflix has a complete back catalog, hulu is obsolete. *I mean this in a good way...
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 20:07
|
|
|
Brock Landers posted:I agree with everything except this. PCs can't act as extenders in MCE, unfortunately. You can hook a second MCE PC up to your network and look at shared recordings, but they won't play if they are DRMd, you won't get a shared guide/scheduling, and you'd effectivly have two PCs you'd need to maintain settings for to be "the same". A true extender, like the XBOX 360, lets you do all those things but it's the only extender in town, at the moment. Frustrating, but maybe Microsoft will figure it out soon. http://www.sage.tv/stvscreenshots.html?sageSub=tv oh and the recordings are DRM free, hd capture is through a QAM supported tuner or the hauppage HD pvr (component input)
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 22:37
|
|
|
stgdz posted:you could always go with a WHS system and sagetv, use the 200 dollar extender that they have. That's not really a good solution since you are pretty much the only thing in clear QAM on a cable system is the local broadcast channels. Cablecard support in the PVR software is pretty much a hard requirement. The usefulness of the hauppage device is likely going to come to a close soon as content providers are getting itchy trigger fingers about closing the analog hole.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2010 23:36
|
|
|
Well I guess that answers that http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/03/oops-tivo-premiere-wont-have-comcast-on-demand/ quote:This TiVo Premiere screenshot with a large Comcast On Demand logo on it certainly set a few hearts aflutter yesterday when it was released from the company, but our dreams have turned into bitter, bitter ashes: TiVo tells us this screenshot is actually just a mockup and not indicative of any actual partnership. And double-oops: that other interesting screenshot with "Friends Recommend" on the Browse screen is also a mockup, meaning our hopes for some social-media integration have also been dashed, at least for now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2010 00:15
|
|
|
So not only did they announce wholly underwhelming features, they announced wholly underwhelming features that don't actually exist? Nice job.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2010 00:24
|
|
|
this reeks of some big giant project launched in 2005 that they spent all their time on but ultimately failed last year leaving them to go "oh poo poo!"
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2010 00:37
|
|
|
I'm telling you. Premiere is a stopgap product. It's the last in the hardware line. What TiVo did was burn down the existing software and make something that's easily ported to MSO hardware. This is why the new DirecTiVo isn't out yet. Case in point. http://www.multichannel.com/article/449644-Comcast_In_Talks_With_TiVo_About_Premiere_.php Not 24 hours after the debut, Comcast is talking about the possibility of using it as their tru2way interface. I bet the TiVo software is very compartmentalized with a HAL, core functionality, and flash UI with plugin modules so that they can port some or all of it to other hardware. The Premiere and Premiere XL are devkits dressed up and sold as product to keep the money flowing in the meantime. I bet they are found to be a bog standard broadcom reference design under the skin.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2010 01:03
|
|
|
the good news to me is that they seem to have talked WD into shipping more 1Tb DVR Expanders
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2010 01:13
|
|
|
This TiVo Premiere announcement is such a letdown. Rather than focusing on Netflix/Youtube/Blockbuster On Demand, it would have been nice if they'd found some way to include the On Demand services people already get included in their cable packages, via tru2way. A TiVo Series 4 without tru2way, jesus christ. I certainly won't be waiting another 3 years for one to come out. The future of DVRs is probably in Windows Media Center (or maybe not, with the extenders having been discontinued a year ago) and Moxi. And, ironically, in rented cable company DVRs which use TiVo software, just locked down and stripped of features to gently caress and back.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2010 05:04
|
|
|
bull3964 posted:I'm telling you. Premiere is a stopgap product. It's the last in the hardware line. What TiVo did was burn down the existing software and make something that's easily ported to MSO hardware. This is why the new DirecTiVo isn't out yet. Comcast already has Tivo on their boxes, but they never released it nationwide.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2010 05:20
|
|
|
Don Lapre posted:Comcast already has Tivo on their boxes, but they never released it nationwide. Yes, but there's a difference. This new software was probably written with tru2way/OCAP in mind from the ground up whereas the TiVo stuff that Comcast had was a shaky graft of TiVo on to the existing STB software.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2010 05:26
|
|
|
The way I see it, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't on tru2way. If they put it in, at the rate of adoption the market has shown with that (let alone CableCARD), they'd be laughed at for chasing a dead market. If they don't, TiVo, come on, why don't you have tru2way, everything is On Demand now! I don't see why something in TiVo OS couldn't hook into TV Everywhere initiatives, if they ended up going that way. That was what I was banking on with the Comcast On Demand in the Photoshopped UI, but oh well!
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2010 05:58
|
|
|
bull3964 posted:The Premiere and Premiere XL are devkits dressed up and sold as product to keep the money flowing in the meantime. I bet they are found to be a bog standard broadcom reference design under the skin. Like I said earlier I think, I saw somewhere it's a broadcom dual core 400mhz design of some kind. So yeah. In a way, if you look at this as them getting out of the hardware game, the tagline to the stupid announcement makes sense. Inventing the DVR was just the beginning, figuring out how to get other people to sell it for you is the next step, because it is tough to make money on hardware unless you are a giant company.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2010 05:26
|
|
|
I finally ordered a 1TB expander, time to take all the SD channels off the rotation.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2010 06:54
|
|
|
Kind of upset that they didn't release the second coming, but I'm pretty happy with my Tivo HD as it is when all is said and done. The new GUI is a huge turn off for me, as it looks really cramped. I'm not sure how configurable it is, but I'm guessing you can't turn off the annoying bar along the top and maybe stick a 5 day weather forecast there instead, or just maybe let the screen show more guide data or something. Guess that means more money to blow on something else.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2010 18:03
|
|
|
Tivo just posted their 4th quarter results. They beat estimates, but they still lost $10.2 million dollars. That's almost 3 times the loss of Q4 last year. I really wonder how long they can continue bleeding money like this. I give it till August before they are bought by Comcast.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2010 05:55
|
|
|
They've bled money for their entire corporate life. I think they only happened to have a few profitable quarters a few years back. I'm not sure if Comcast has enough money/really wants to buy them, since they already have some sort of tech sharing agreement in place and why take on the debt? In researching all of that, I noticed that TiVo is (re?) launching in Britain with Virgin, apparently. As I recall they had the Series 2 but gave up pretty quickly a while back, so maybe that would bring some revenue.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2010 17:20
|
|
|
I just threw out Comcast as the most likely buyer considering the interest they've shown in Tivo in the past. Comcast is rich in cash and it's not like Tivo is worth a hell of a lot right now. Yes, I know they've had very few profitable quarters, but the bleed is accelerating and eventually they are going to drain their cash reserves completely. Subscriber loss is going to keep going up, they are spending millions in litigation, and all of the 'innovation' they've added to the platform (internet content) is being done better and more cheaply elsewhere. Another thing I haven't seen mentioned here is that the Tivo CEO said the upcoming new DirecTiVo will not be based on the Premiere interface but will instead be classic TiVo. If the new DirecTiVo will basically be more of the same but just updated to work with MPEG4, what the hell is taking so long? It really seems in this round that TiVo is bending over backwards not for the customer, but for the cable companies to try to get them to use their stuff by default. I think they've realized that's the only way they are going to reach the masses, the retail model for their product has failed.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2010 17:49
|
|
|
Stop depressing me you guys, I want a Series 4. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2010 03:31
|
|
|
Golbez posted:Stop depressing me you guys, I want a Series 4. Oh, you can get one; whether TiVo will be around in a year to pay your fees to, completely different!
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2010 04:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 21:14 |
|
|
Woot has refurbed S3s up for $170 today, so if you're on an S2 or lurking with nothing and don't think the Premiere is all that, this is an option.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2010 16:44
|
|