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vty posted:Does Scar take awhile to get going? I'm around 15%(kindle) into it She's at the lovers.. just found out the Johannes guy works for them; and really find it...boring so far. I do like Chinas writing, though. Just not finding much of an interesting story to grab onto. Contrary to the majority opinion here I prefer Perdido Street Station to The Scar, it's also the first book in the series and I'd have started there. There isn't a lot of a crossover though so it shouldn't prevent you from enjoying it. Like the rest of the Bas Lag novels the first act is kind of slow, serving just to set up the characters and stage, it does pay off though because when things get really hectic latter on you feel you are right there watching poo poo hit the fan.
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Mar 24, 2010 09:51
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vty posted:Does Scar take awhile to get going? I'm around 15%(kindle) into it She's at the lovers.. just found out the Johannes guy works for them; and really find it...boring so far. I do like Chinas writing, though. Just not finding much of an interesting story to grab onto. The events of Perdido Street Station are referenced in The Scar a bit. You probably should have read that one first but no big deal. I personally thought The Scar was pretty good but I felt the ending was a bit anticlimactic. To answer your question - yes, I think it does pick up a bit.
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Mar 24, 2010 14:29
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Finished Perdido Street Station last night, my first Mieville book. I'm definitely now a fan, even though I wasn't completely in love with the book. I think the beginning is strong and really pulls you into this world and these characters, and then it gradually loses some magic as it degenerates into a Unlikely Heroes vs. Unstoppable Monsters tale. The storytelling felt a little sloppy to me, with too many loose ends, leaps of faith, and characters that existed only to move the plot - I'm looking at you Weaver, a blatant Deus Ex Machina to let our heroes escape impossible situations. I enjoyed Mieville's writing style and moods he was able to produce more than the actual story of the book. It was a unique read, I really enjoy reading a book that doesn't feel like something I've read ten times before. I'll be picking up The Scar next.
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Apr 6, 2010 16:41
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I recieved Perdido Street Station as a part of a Secret Santa-deal, and I was a bit cautious about it. However, after having read it, I was in love with the universe and New Crobozun. I wanted to read more. And The Scar really hit the spot! Giant monsters, weird creatures and allround mystic things was just what I wanted. So it was with great enthusiasm I began reading Iron Council. And I just couldn't get into it. If it was the plot, the main character or what it was, I don't know. In any case I just couldn't get past the first third. I'm planning on getting either The Kraken or The city and The City. Compared to Iron Council, how was City?
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Apr 7, 2010 19:53
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Iacen posted:I'm planning on getting either The Kraken or The city and The City. I'd give Iron Council another go if I were you. While I'd rank it last in the series it does become much more interesting as it goes on and you get to know New Crobuzon (my favorite "character") a bit more.
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Apr 7, 2010 20:18
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Iacen posted:
It's a totally different book - it's China trying to play with hardboiled detective fiction, and it's not set in New Crobuzon or anything. It's a low slower-paced than the Bas Lag books, and it has a totally different feel to it. I think The Kraken sounds like it's closer in style to his earlier work, but ultimately the question of whether TC&TC is something you'd like or not comes down to whether you like the idea of a more sedate and less overtly Weird noir story.
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Apr 8, 2010 19:23
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I've had Perdido Street Station sitting on my shelf for months and just never got around to it until now. I'm a little over 100 pages in and I just can't seem to get into it. I'm not sure exactly why. Maybe it's the fact that I can't identify with the main character at all (I have a big problem with cruelty to animals, for instance). Maybe it's because the author is just spraying me with proper nouns without actually defining any of them (people, places, political parties, technology, etc.) and it makes everything in the story too abstract. Maybe it's Miéville's use of language; the man seems to be a human thesaurus and I find myself regularly tripped up by the more esoteric words. Having to stop and think about the meaning of a term pulls me out of the story. I don't know. I've given it several chances but it's failed to catch my interest. Has anyone else had the problems I'm describing, or do I just need to put down the urban fantasy for a while and read some "actual literature?"
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Apr 11, 2010 08:16
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Perdido has two distinct halves, usually people like one or the other more. I didn't like the book at first either, but I stuck with it and am glad I did. You might want to keep reading and see if the second half grabs you. The other books don't have that problem.
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Apr 11, 2010 16:47
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Exactly, the book takes a dramatic change of pace and style shortly after the introduction of the grub, stick with it a little longer.
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Apr 11, 2010 17:37
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Che Delilas posted:I've had Perdido Street Station sitting on my shelf for months and just never got around to it until now. It sounds like it may not be your thing, but then again, I guess I don't understand folks that don't like things in novels that they personally don't agree with. It's a novel, people are supposed to be imperfect and bad things will happen (in good novels anyway). It does get better plot wise, but the rest of the stuff you have trouble with stays too. As for the thesaurus thing, yeah, I think it's a bit much, but I love words, so.
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Apr 11, 2010 19:37
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SaviourX posted:It sounds like it may not be your thing, but then again, I guess I don't understand folks that don't like things in novels that they personally don't agree with. It's a novel, people are supposed to be imperfect and bad things will happen (in good novels anyway). It does get better plot wise, but the rest of the stuff you have trouble with stays too. It's not just that I don't like him, it's that I can't identify with him on any level. The animal cruelty thing was just an example. It's not just him either, I can't form a connection to any character so far, and I need to be able to do that to be interested in a story. I've enjoyed the hell out of some pretty dark books, but there was always at least one character in the story that I was really vested in. I may try and stick with it for a while longer though, since it sounds like I'm very close to at least a change of pace. The introduction to a brand new universe can bog things down, so hopefully most of that is done and he'll start moving things along soon.
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Apr 11, 2010 20:59
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Che Delilas posted:It's not just that I don't like him, it's that I can't identify with him on any level. The animal cruelty thing was just an example. It's not just him either, I can't form a connection to any character so far, and I need to be able to do that to be interested in a story. I've enjoyed the hell out of some pretty dark books, but there was always at least one character in the story that I was really vested in. You probably won't like anything by Mieville then, he writes pretty much transparent protagonists for the narrative to focus around, rather than flesh-and-blood people you can actually relate to. Iron Council might be an exception to this but it's been a long time since I've read it.
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Apr 11, 2010 22:58
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That's because Judah Low loving owns (in a flawed protagonist sort of way). Too bad it takes a whole book and lesser characters to see why.
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Apr 12, 2010 08:30
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Pompous Rhombus posted:You probably won't like anything by Mieville then, he writes pretty much transparent protagonists for the narrative to focus around, rather than flesh-and-blood people you can actually relate to. Iron Council might be an exception to this but it's been a long time since I've read it. Yea, i really get this vibe from TC&TC, which is the first novel I've read of his. I'm more than halfway through and I've learned to let go of the detective who the story revolves around because China dosen't seem to care about enriching him at all, just the world around him. I absolutely love the hook in this book and while he has to kind of write his way out of silly problems caused by it, it leaves an impression of magnified suspension of disbelief that just goes with the world very well. Question though, are all his books so sparse in prose? I've gotten a sense it's his imagination thats won him some praise, but the story telling is rather straight forward.
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Apr 12, 2010 08:48
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meanolmrcloud posted:Question though, are all his books so sparse in prose? I've gotten a sense it's his imagination thats won him some praise, but the story telling is rather straight forward. Yeah, he actually gets a lot of criticism around here for his rather baroque prose (which I like) in the Bas-Lag books. TC&TC is written as a sort of hardboiled detective story so he switched his writing style to something more in line with that genre.
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Apr 12, 2010 13:19
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Pompous Rhombus posted:You probably won't like anything by Mieville then, he writes pretty much transparent protagonists for the narrative to focus around, rather than flesh-and-blood people you can actually relate to. Iron Council might be an exception to this but it's been a long time since I've read it. True. I never really liked Bellis as a protagonist, but The Scar is such a great book that I hardly cared after a while.
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Apr 13, 2010 06:14
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Okay, so, I've read The Scar and Peridio and I haven't liked a single one of this guy's protagonists. His set-up and world building are great, don't get me wrong, but Bellis is such a bitch right through to the end and Isaac is a complete rear end in a top hat who should have died. And every single one of his characters speaks in exactly the same way. I wish he'd do a collaboration and let some other author who's better with characterisation play in his sandbox to make his books a bit more digestible.
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Apr 14, 2010 02:10
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Atma McCuddles posted:Okay, so, I've read The Scar and Peridio and I haven't liked a single one of this guy's protagonists. His set-up and world building are great, don't get me wrong, but Bellis is such a bitch right through to the end and Isaac is a complete rear end in a top hat who should have died. And every single one of his characters speaks in exactly the same way. I wish he'd do a collaboration and let some other author who's better with characterisation play in his sandbox to make his books a bit more digestible. You're not supposed to like them, I think.
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Apr 14, 2010 06:21
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I dont remember either character being particulary unlikable.
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Apr 14, 2010 09:51
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Oasx posted:I dont remember either character being particulary unlikable. Exactly. In fact Isaac in particular was a very affable character. The kind of cool, eccentric friend it's really fun to hang out with all the time. I really should reread The Scar (for the 3rd time) before the new Mieville book comes out (speaking of which, I've preordered it online so hopefully it'll arrive not long after the release date  )
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Apr 14, 2010 11:07
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Oasx posted:I dont remember either character being particulary unlikable. That's also my take on it. But I just couldn't get into the main character of Iron Council. That might have beenone of the reasons I couldn't get very far in it. I must restart it at a later stage, perhaps I'll have more luck the second time.
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Apr 14, 2010 19:21
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Had to read TC&TC for university and I loved it. It took me a long time to get into, which seems to be the par for China's work. It was very strange, even though I wasn't really enjoying it for a long time, I kept returning to it. It was like I wanted to read it, but I didn't know why, and then suddenly one day I was really enjoying it. I agree with anyone who was saying how Ornicy being a myth was better than if it had been real. I liked it because it was a very subtle twist on the typical detective narrative, where you are repeatedly given evidence that one person did it to the point that you know they must not have done. Ornicy was like that, it knit everything up too easily. I'm currently halfway through PSS and I have a feeling I'm going to like it less and less as it goes on. I may be the only person who loved the opening chapters before the arrival of the moth , and the more horror elements that come into play, the less I seem to be enjoying it. Except of course for The Weaver. The Weaver is horrific. I am trying desperately to burn through PSS so I can read The Scar and Iron Council before Kraken comes out. Also, in regards to Isaac being unlikable, I think he is actually just very well written. I know a lot of people are saying characters are his weak point, but Isaac, to me, seems like a masterpiece. There are plenty of ways China could have made him more likable, multiple points where he could have changed one thing that wouldn't effect the plot but would make him more likable, but he didn't. I think it means you get a more believable character. He doesn't act like someone who is trying to look good/cool when nobody is around. The fact he is overweight, cruel to animals, crude, and violent go with the fact that is a selfish and obsessive man.
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Apr 15, 2010 12:19
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Captain_Indigo posted:Had to read TC&TC for university and I loved it. What course was this for? Captain_Indigo posted:I am trying desperately to burn through PSS so I can read The Scar and Iron Council before Kraken comes out. PSS is a good enough book by itself, but next to The Scar, PSS looks like a rather bland brochure introducing you to the world of Bas-Lag before you get onto the main event. The Scar is seriously one of the greatest, most mind-twistingly fantastical books I've ever read.
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Apr 15, 2010 12:26
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Hedrigall posted:What course was this for? A creative and media writing course. We looked at it as an example of genre bending because it's really hard to work out what it is. Not really fantasy, certainly not sci-fi, but then calling it a detective novel is like calling the X-files a cop show. It's sort of like a horror because of the protagonist and the murders and the threat being there, but the narrative is too stilted to be a horror. It could be a comedy (in the Greek sense) because the protagonist is out of their depth but there is a happy ending. There are political overtones, but it isn't a political thriller because the political groups are barely unveiled.
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Apr 15, 2010 12:32
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I had to read Perdido for the science fiction course I took to fill one of my English requirements. That was a great class.
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Apr 16, 2010 03:33
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Finished PSS and really enjoyed it. I didn't like the middle as much as the beginning or end, and whilst there were several elements that somehow felt slightly out of place for me, The Construct Council being the big one, and the handlingers being the second, I enjoyed it so much that I didn't care. I have the other two Bas-Lag books on the way in the post. I have a presumtion that certain figures in book one are going to play more major roles, or at least re-appear in books two and three. Without giving examples that are too specific, can anyone confirm/deny this without spoiling anything? I'm just sort of hoping that the universe feels tied together between the books I guess.
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Apr 23, 2010 12:39
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Off the top of my head: Isaac and the events of PSS are mentioned in passing in The Scar. There's a kind of important connection to the protagonist of that book. A major character in The Scar is likewise mentioned in Iron Council. The ending of PSS comes up early on in Iron Council in a very cool way, and you find out what happened to one of PSS's main characters after that novel ended. Something Derkhan mentions in passing early on in PSS ends up being a MAJOR plot point of Iron Council. There are a few other connections along these lines, and they don't really take away from the standalone nature of each novel, but it's fun to hunt them down. Edit: Also, gently caress, you are going to love The Scar so much
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Apr 23, 2010 12:58
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If anyone who has read all three books is wondering what those connections are, I'll spoiler-text them: Captain_Indigo don't read the below! (or anyone else who hasn't read the three novels) In order of above... Isaac is Bellis's former lover, of course. He is why she is fleeing New Crobuzon. Oh actually I have the second one the wrong way around. Tanner Sack mentions Spiral Jacobs in The Scar. In IC, the Flexible Puppeteers enact the trial/torture of Jack Half-A-Prayer, and in the play a "pock-marked man" (Yagharek sans-feathers) shows up and mercy-kills him. In PSS, Derkhan mentions hearing about a woman being Remade with her baby's arms grafted to her forehead. This turns out to be who is under Toro's helmet in IC. Also, would those of you who have read Iron Council agree that this is the best twist ever?: That Toro's plan to assassinate the mayor is a complete fabrication so she can kill the judge who ordered her Remaking, and who just happens to be having an affair with the mayor. That was mindblowing when I first read it, to realise her motives after all that build-up. Hedrigall fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Apr 23, 2010 |
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Apr 23, 2010 13:07
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ShutteredIn posted:So China wrote a pretty interesting article on the monstrous aspects used in Weird fiction for the philosophy journal Collapse called: M. R. James and the Quantum Vampire: Weird; Hauntological: Versus and/or and and/or or? WHOA does anyone want to talk about this? The discussion of the biological horror of cephalopods at the beginning is really interesting. I lose him when he gets into hauntology a little bit (he seems to think that fin de siecle authors were trying to use or invent the modern english meaning of "ghost" and failing? what?) and he ends up seeming to use taxonomy of past literature to argue a point about the present in a way that doesnt 100% work for me. But he's critically examining stuff that gets glossed over as much by its fans as by its critics and I think this is interesting
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Apr 23, 2010 18:38
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Kraken reviews I haven't yet read any of these, so I don't know if there are spoilers. http://nextread.co.uk/2010/04/16/green-review-kraken-by-china-miville-macmillan/ http://www.thebookseller.com/books/author-profiles/112281-a-kraken-good-read.html http://scotspec.blogspot.com/2010/04/book-review-kraken-by-china-mieville.html Also, The Guardian did a podcast about disaster fiction, including discussion of Kraken: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/audio/2010/apr/23/apocalypse-literature-volcano-krakatoa Edit: The podcast is very interesting but the mention of Kraken is a mere plug, literally about 15 seconds long. Hedrigall fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Apr 24, 2010 |
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Apr 24, 2010 03:22
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Hedrigall posted:Kraken reviews The first one sorta sucks and is a bit spoiler-y, the second and third are good. The second one focuses a bit more on Mieville himself (I didn't know he wrote PSS while working on his doctorate), the third is pretty much all book-centric.
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Apr 24, 2010 04:20
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I was seriously disappointed by pss. The 'amazing setting' was just some guy riffing on planescape and the writing and plot just struck me as amateurish and bad. I stopped about 2/3rds in. I mean, did he just really want to write in the planescape setting but change the names and make everything brown so that he could pretend to be a real author or what?
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Apr 24, 2010 13:46
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I've heard the "everything is brown" complaint about plenty of games, but this has to be the first time I've seen it about a book. But I'll forgive that for blowing my mind, I never even noticed that New Crobuzon is Sigil. Mieville is a massive D&D nerd so I'm sure there's a connection.
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Apr 24, 2010 20:42
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My most vivid memory of the book is when we first go to the cactus district and the author spends a page or two describing in extreme detail how the cactus' guard crossbows work, not because they are being used and it's somehow relevent to what's happening at the time, but because he's obviously just thought about it as part of his world building and he felt he needed to put it somewhere because it was cool.
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Apr 25, 2010 06:19
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Ratios and Tendency posted:I was seriously disappointed by pss. The 'amazing setting' was just some guy riffing on planescape and the writing and plot just struck me as amateurish and bad. While I will agree that I got a major Planescape vibe the first time I even opened the book, I also got a major Oddworld/steampunk/Star Wars vibe too, so, it's not like it's any one source. That, and he has stated that he loves the Monster Manuals / bestiaries, so yeah, it's part of his worldbuilding. The prose itself is far from amateurish and the plotting for PSS is slow, but hardly bad. As someone that's probably read DnD books before, I can't believe you say that seriously. quote:Iron Council:In PSS, Derkhan mentions hearing about a woman being Remade with her baby's arms grafted to her forehead. This turns out to be who is under Toro's helmet in IC. Holy gently caress. I think that's one of the hooks he wrote in and was like 'that sounds like an interesting character, I wonder where I could go with that.' Also, Iron Council's main character doesn't show up until 100 pages in or so, so that might throw people off quite a bit.
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Apr 26, 2010 08:48
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Ratios and Tendency posted:I was seriously disappointed by pss. The 'amazing setting' was just some guy riffing on planescape and the writing and plot just struck me as amateurish and bad. I stopped about 2/3rds in. I mean, did he just really want to write in the planescape setting but change the names and make everything brown so that he could pretend to be a real author or what? How the heck is it at all like planescape if there's only one plane? Isn't that the whole point of planescape?!
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Apr 26, 2010 09:19
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Shanty posted:How the heck is it at all like planescape if there's only one plane? Isn't that the whole point of planescape?! <edit> Where the Avancs live. NoneMoreNegative fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Apr 26, 2010 |
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Apr 26, 2010 11:01
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SaviourX posted:
I have never read a dnd book I can assure you. edit: and when I say planescape I mean Sigil specifically. Ratios and Tendency fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Apr 26, 2010 |
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Apr 26, 2010 13:10
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I don't know what planescape is, but having things that can jump back and forth between multiple dimensions probably wasn't invented by whoever invented planescape.
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Apr 26, 2010 16:15
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Planescape is the specific setting for DnD where the planes meet or are explored, and the art style and creatures created for it are echoed quite a bit by what shows up in PSS, that's all.
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Apr 26, 2010 20:57
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