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Fnoigy posted:I want to download this mod, but I'm a little afraid. A little while back I installed TNM, and when I tried to uninstall it, it ended up mostly breaking Deus Ex (which apparently recently fixed itself), and now I'm too wary to install any mods.
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Apr 20, 2010 18:09
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GreatGreen posted:This is the correct answer. The best way to handle plot sensitive characters is to allow you to kill them, but flash a warning on the screen alerting you that the game is now impossible to complete. Stuff like this is really interesting to read. I think you're right too, freedom of choice is the goal, but it needs to fit into the design constraints of the genre, atmosphere, and story telling technique. Last night I started cheating and put Deus Ex in 3rd person mode for a few minutes--I was taken by just how morrowindish a vibe I got, horrible animation and all. For all the talk about consolization that goes on concerning every game that comes out, I think the example you point out is the most pernicious: it's the type of thinking that informs the entire rest of the game. Simple GUI, cover system, non-inventory management, none of these are bad on their own, none. Unfortunately, they never come on their own, ever--the only game to exist where they came on their own were probably the first game to implement them. You plan a game where you say 'ok, everyone is gonna be killable, at least attackable, gently caress it' and that mindset informs how you go about creating the rest of the game. You get a Deus Ex (or Morrowind) which is closer to The Wire in terms of story continuity, whereas Oblivion is closer a Michael Bay movie. Le Sean fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Apr 20, 2010 |
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Apr 20, 2010 18:15
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STALKER handled plot-related character death in a pretty interesting way I thought. Everyone in the Zone was pretty much as vulnerable as you, and not only could you yourself kill plot NPCs, but so could other Stalkers, mutants, anomalies, and occasionally walking into a fire barrel. The plot itself was scripted so most of the time, you could just retrieve necessary information from their corpses, but there was at least one major plot-related NPC you had to talk to to get the best ending, and he had a nasty habit of getting himself killed by whatever happened to not like him that day.
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Apr 20, 2010 18:27
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I don't think restricting freedom in the name of a better game experience is necessarily a bad thing. There's a limit to how much freedom you need to restrict, of course, and not allowing any freedom is pretty meh too. For a more linear and straightforward game, as opposed a Morrowind wide-open world, Deus Ex handled it pretty well. (Plot Forcefields is lame, but not as lame as "everyone talks to you from behind invincible glass screens")
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Apr 20, 2010 18:33
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The annoying thing is that the game acknowledges your attempts to stick with UNATCO - if you don't send the message out and go back to Paul, JC will argue that despite a few bad individuals, UNATCO as a whole is worth fighting for. Paul will begrudgingly admit he won't deny JC his choice, but will regret the two coming to blows later on. Sadly the plot doesn't progress until you go back and send the message anyway.
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Apr 20, 2010 18:41
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http://store.steampowered.com/sub/296/ Get it while it's hot, boys. You have ABSOLUTELY NO excuse now.  Each game for 2.50, or both for 5 bucks.
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Apr 20, 2010 19:12
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god loving drat it I just bought DX on steam not even a week ago. On the bright side, I've been waiting for a sale to see just how bad the second really is 
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Apr 20, 2010 19:24
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Possible to use mods on the Steam version?
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Apr 20, 2010 19:35
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EvilHobo posted:Possible to use mods on the Steam version? yes
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Apr 20, 2010 19:39
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Tecman posted:http://store.steampowered.com/sub/296/ Be warned that Shifter will not work on the Steam version... or perhaps I'm mis-informed. I read that to make the EXE tie into Steam it has to have some extra code that Shifter doesn't understand.
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Apr 20, 2010 19:40
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Shumagorath posted:Be warned that Shifter will not work on the Steam version... or perhaps I'm mis-informed. I read that to make the EXE tie into Steam it has to have some extra code that Shifter doesn't understand. I've been using the Shifter mod with the Steam version. It runs just fine.
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Apr 20, 2010 19:48
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Cardboard Fox posted:I've been using the Shifter mod with the Steam version. It runs just fine. Same here. I'm also running New Vision with the DX9 renderer, since DX10 is kinda buggy for me.
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Apr 20, 2010 19:49
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Sweet. I bought the collection again just in case I lose my discs and all the backups with the ISO and mod folders on them.
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Apr 20, 2010 19:51
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Tecman posted:http://store.steampowered.com/sub/296/ Dammit, I've bought this game three times now.
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Apr 20, 2010 19:52
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Shumagorath posted:Haha god drat the banner is ugly. I have the Steam version and it works with Shifter.
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Apr 20, 2010 19:55
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You can legally pull the Deus Ex exe from the latest patch, and it'll work with mods.
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Apr 20, 2010 20:14
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OK, this is weird. Fresh install of the Steam version of Deus Ex and the game crashes as soon as it launches. I can only get it to run by doing it in safe mode and even then the graphics are all messed up and it freezes anyways. I'm on Windows 7, dunno if that's a known problem but I can't find anything else about it.
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Apr 20, 2010 20:15
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...of SCIENCE! posted:OK, this is weird. Fresh install of the Steam version of Deus Ex ... http://kentie.net/article/dxguide/ Do not run the game without doing these changes on modern machines, especially if you're running Windows 7. The new renderers RULE.
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Apr 20, 2010 20:18
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I think I quit Invisible War around the time I was making a table in my apartment fly around the room by walking into it. Let's see if I can do a little better than 10 minutes this time.
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Apr 20, 2010 20:22
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I never uninstalled Deus Ex 
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Apr 20, 2010 20:31
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Fry's Electronics sold me half the game for $15, so I am more than happy to spend two-and-a-half loving dollars to actually finish Deus Ex (albeit ten years after it was released). Hell yes.
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Apr 20, 2010 20:53
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I got the CD for free with some video card purchase when it came out. Promptly played it and missed quite a bit but held onto the game. Playing now for the 3rd time. I dropped a LAM from a rooftop high above a bunch of dogs and guys who were running around after I darted one and when the LAM exploded one dog flew up in the air before coming back down with a splat. That was a first for me but usually you don't have a bird's eye view. My one gripe is that there are a couple of spots where the game won't progress until you go to X and it can be very difficult to find out where X is. I swam around the underwater base for hours in RL time before figuring out what the hell I was supposed to do and on this play through Gunther kept telling me I needed to go up in the statue when in fact I needed to go to the shanty area of the park down to the subway. Minor complaint but there are places where you can be stuck for a while. E: oh and you can 'trap' both gunther and that ho by standing in the doorway to manderlay's office and they'll bump around in a slow circle making a grunt sound every time they hit the door.
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Apr 20, 2010 20:56
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Molten Llama posted:Fry's Electronics sold me half the game for $15, so I am more than happy to spend two-and-a-half loving dollars to actually finish Deus Ex (albeit ten years after it was released). I'm really envious of the people that will be playing this for the first time.  Oh god, the memories of my first playthrough.(Take the GEP gun.)
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Apr 20, 2010 20:56
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Tecman posted:(Take the GEP gun.) "You can use it to take out the bot patrolling the perimeter." Suuuurrre. Although I personally prefer to lead the NSF guys to Paul and the security bot on the docks.
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Apr 20, 2010 21:11
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Boogle posted:Although I personally prefer to lead the NSF guys to Paul and the security bot on the docks. this is my favorite "pacifist" tactic on Liberty Island, along with sounding the alarm intentionally so everyone gets shot by my hacked turret
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Apr 20, 2010 21:13
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Boogle posted:Although I personally prefer to lead the NSF guys to Paul and the security bot on the docks. Only answer cause of SUPPLIES and SMOKES.
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Apr 20, 2010 21:16
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Angry Diplomat posted:The best game for that was Morrowind, which didn't give a poo poo if you killed storyline-critical characters but did helpfully warn you that you had probably made the main storyline impossible to complete. I can't help wondering why more games don't do that - it seems like it would be very easy to code, and it prevents immersion-breaking while also not letting the player unwittingly screw himself over. You could even have the save-game screen change to say "hey you can't win the game, you might want to save in another slot" Honestly, I always thought that was really dumb in Morrowind. Since the game gives absolutely no indication that a character is important for the plot until AFTER you kill them (literally anyone could be a plot-critical character), you could end up having to reload a savegame you made half an hour ago for some dumb mistake you made. Since very few people actually want to ruin their game before they complete the main plot, it makes no sense to me to allow you to kill the character.
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Apr 20, 2010 21:20
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Concerned Citizen posted:Honestly, I always thought that was really dumb in Morrowind. Since the game gives absolutely no indication that a character is important for the plot until AFTER you kill them (literally anyone could be a plot-critical character), you could end up having to reload a savegame you made half an hour ago for some dumb mistake you made. Since very few people actually want to ruin their game before they complete the main plot, it makes no sense to me to allow you to kill the character. Maybe you shouldn't just run around murdering potentially important people if you're interested in the plot.
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Apr 20, 2010 21:21
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Paigicus posted:Maybe you shouldn't just run around murdering potentially important people if you're interested in the plot. Some of the main plot characters weren't exactly "important." Besides, maybe I want the freedom to kill everyone AND complete the main plot!
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Apr 20, 2010 21:22
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Paigicus posted:Maybe you shouldn't just run around murdering potentially important people if you're interested in the plot. it's entirely possible to get unlucky and end up killing someone who's part of a main quest somewhere, i ended up getting the message after offing someone in a house in the middle of nowhere once
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Apr 20, 2010 21:23
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Concerned Citizen posted:Besides, maybe I want the freedom to kill everyone AND complete the main plot! you can do this in morrowind 
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Apr 20, 2010 21:24
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Fallout 3 was actually pretty good about this as most quest-critical characters, when killed, had some note to point you in the right direction or the trinket you would have needed to get from them anyways.
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Apr 20, 2010 21:26
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Boogle posted:"You can use it to take out the bot patrolling the perimeter." No, it's because you can get the Sniper Rifle and the Tranq. gun in the first level through picking them up off enemy corpses.
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Apr 20, 2010 21:27
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Tecman posted:http://store.steampowered.com/sub/296/ Oh god, I own the original on actual CD but I want a copy that I can just download, how many times am I going to play this game
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Apr 20, 2010 21:48
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Oh drat I own both DX1 and DX:IW and I'm going to buy them for steam just for the convenience for five dollars.
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Apr 20, 2010 21:56
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Concerned Citizen posted:Honestly, I always thought that was really dumb in Morrowind. Since the game gives absolutely no indication that a character is important for the plot until AFTER you kill them (literally anyone could be a plot-critical character), you could end up having to reload a savegame you made half an hour ago for some dumb mistake you made. Since very few people actually want to ruin their game before they complete the main plot, it makes no sense to me to allow you to kill the character. I'd rather find out somebody was plot critical after I killed them, because otherwise, there would need to be some kind of video-gamey interface indicator that let you know everybody who was involved in the main plot when you meet them so you wouldn't kill them, which would eliminate the relatively common occurance of happening upon them once by chance, then seeing them in relation to the plot later on in the game and being able to think "wow hey I know that guy! He was important? Cool!" instead of instantly knowing that RandomTraveler002374 is actually of significance the moment he shows up in your field of view. Oblivion did this by changing the crosshairs into a crown when you aimed at a plot-centric character. It was kind of obnoxious. What I'm saying is that what you propose would require an often-occuring immersion breaking device when it's not needed, because most people won't go around killing everybody anyway. And besides, most plot-relevant people don't usually put themselves in such a position as to make the player want to kill them, unless the player is playing a psychopath, in which case such a warning would do basically no good anyway. GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Apr 20, 2010 |
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Apr 20, 2010 22:09
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cmurphy50 posted:Oh drat I own both DX1 and DX:IW and I'm going to buy them for steam just for the convenience for five dollars. Yeah, I own DX and got it again for steam because it was just five bucks. ...don't really want IW, methinks.
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Apr 20, 2010 22:11
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Molten Llama posted:Fry's Electronics sold me half the game for $15,
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Apr 20, 2010 22:27
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Yep, no loving indicator whatsoever aside from the "Special Limited Edition" tucked in the corner. Cost me $15 too.
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Apr 20, 2010 22:31
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Concerned Citizen posted:Some of the main plot characters weren't exactly "important." This is entirely possible. The only character who you really cannot kill in the entire game until you make use of him is the Dwarf living in Fyr's basement. Even if you don't do this, it's still possible to beat the game. It requires a whole lot of health fortification and acting extremely quickly when you beat/stab the Heart at the end but it is entirely possible to complete the game without ever acquiring Wraithguard (there's a speed run of Morrowind where a guy beats the game in about seven minutes with this method).
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Apr 20, 2010 22:32
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