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joat mon posted:"Am I free to go?" has more to do with defining and limiting the the end point of the encounter / seizure of your person when you've been pulled over.
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May 15, 2010 13:49
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By asking if you are free to go, you force the cop to either extend the seizure (which must have some additional constitutional basis) or end the seizure. Simply refusing a search does neither. This is not to say you can't do both; asking if you are free to leave does not prohibit you from refusing a request to search. I think asking if you are free to leave is somewhat less confrontational than refusing a search, which is a decent reason to try it first. Just to add a bit more nuance, in some states, if you are not free to go, the police have to Mirandize you before asking for consent to search.
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May 15, 2010 14:39
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The point I was trying to make is that the police cannot pull you over on a whim. If he has reasonable suspicion to stop you, then he is justified in detaining you, unless a lot has changed since I left law enforcement, which I doubt.
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May 15, 2010 16:34
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Offrampmotel posted:The point I was trying to make is that the police cannot pull you over on a whim. If he has reasonable suspicion to stop you, then he is justified in detaining you, unless a lot has changed since I left law enforcement, which I doubt. The only change I can think of is Whren v. US, where the Supremes said (basically) "we don't care if it's a whim or not, if the cop can articulate any violation of the law the stop is justified."
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May 15, 2010 18:57
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joat mon posted:The only change I can think of is Whren v. US, where the Supremes said (basically) "we don't care if it's a whim or not, if the cop can articulate any violation of the law the stop is justified." Well, to be fair, in PA at least, the vehicle code is so broad that if I really wanted to I could find a violation on 99% of the cars on the road. The easiest one was always something hanging from the rear view mirror. And we both know that if a cop REALLY wants to stop you, he'll find an excuse. I've never stopped someone for a bullshit reason (e.g. DWB) but I have to admit it does happen.
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May 15, 2010 19:03
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Offrampmotel posted:The point I was trying to make is that the police cannot pull you over on a whim. If he has reasonable suspicion to stop you, then he is justified in detaining you, unless a lot has changed since I left law enforcement, which I doubt. I didn't do super great in Crim Pro, but I think the point that they're making is that he is only justified in detaining you as long as the reasonable suspicion continues to last. Once that suspicion has abated, the detention is no longer justified.
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May 16, 2010 02:12
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I've got a quick question. I got a speeding ticket back in February, and I hired a lawyer to help me take care of it. He promised to get my court date moved up and to talk to the city prosecutor to arrange a plea bargain, but he hasn't really done . . . anything, even though I paid him. All he really did was send a letter to the city prosecutor, which he sent me a copy of, and he hasn't done a single thing since. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even show up to my court date on Wednesday. Is there anything I can really do about it at this point? In my view, I basically paid for a service that I didn't receive, and I'm kind of pissed off about it. I'd kind of like my money back, if only so that I can use it to pay my ticket, since it doesn't look I'll have anyone there to present a defense.
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May 17, 2010 01:18
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I had a friend with a similar problem with his lawyer. It took the lawyer a year and a half to file his bankruptcy. All he could really do was file a complaint with the bar association. Didn't get him his money back though.
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May 17, 2010 02:30
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B B posted:I've got a quick question. I got a speeding ticket back in February, and I hired a lawyer to help me take care of it. He promised to get my court date moved up and to talk to the city prosecutor to arrange a plea bargain, but he hasn't really done . . . anything, even though I paid him. All he really did was send a letter to the city prosecutor, which he sent me a copy of, and he hasn't done a single thing since. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even show up to my court date on Wednesday. No, he'll definitely show up to your hearing if you contracted him to do so. If he doesn't, you might have a malpractice claim against him. Still, and I hate to say it, when you get a lawyer for things like speeding tickets, this is about the extent of what you can expect them to do. It's how they make their profits.
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May 17, 2010 04:40
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B B posted:I've got a quick question. I got a speeding ticket back in February, and I hired a lawyer to help me take care of it. He promised to get my court date moved up and to talk to the city prosecutor to arrange a plea bargain, but he hasn't really done . . . anything, even though I paid him. All he really did was send a letter to the city prosecutor, which he sent me a copy of, and he hasn't done a single thing since. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even show up to my court date on Wednesday. When is the last time you called him and spoke with him? If you're wondering whether he'll show up on Wednesday, you could call him up and ask him. At the same time you could also ask him what he's planning to do for you that day. Depending on his caseload and how (dis)organized he is, you may be out of sight (and hearing) - out of mind. To toss out another cliche, you may need to be a bit more of a squeaky wheel than you have been. Any chance you signed a contact that had specific terms as to the extent and limitations of his representation?
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May 17, 2010 04:45
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How does the ACLU work? As in, are they like regular lawyers or what? Do they have to be paid?
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May 18, 2010 22:15
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Xinlum posted:How does the ACLU work? As in, are they like regular lawyers or what? Do they have to be paid? The ACLU employs regular lawyers and compensates them with a paycheck, yes. The ACLU attorneys that I know tend to spend most of their time doing non-litigation advocacy work (i.e. political lobbying, working on drafting legislation, community outreach, etc.) since the organization itself is very picky about selecting lawsuits that it either wants to file or jump on board with. It's basically just an organization like Legal-Aid or something with a focus on civil liberties and matters of constitutional law and federalism.
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May 18, 2010 22:49
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So if I contacted the ACLU and they took the case or whatever, they pay the lawyer?
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May 18, 2010 23:45
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Xinlum posted:So if I contacted the ACLU and they took the case or whatever, they pay the lawyer? Yes but they won't take the case.
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May 19, 2010 01:01
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What do you mean?
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May 19, 2010 01:22
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Xinlum posted:What do you mean? The odds are incredibly low, they usually only take cases to make a point because they resources are so thin.
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May 19, 2010 02:01
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hobbesmaster posted:The odds are incredibly low, they usually only take cases to make a point because they resources are so thin. I have a client who has a good case for them after I resolve his criminal matter. Completely new issue, wide-ranging implications, even a pet issue for the ACLU around here. I'm going to refer him but I'm almost certain even this very good case won't be picked up. Whatever you have is likely even less likely to be picked up. This doesn't mean try but expect failure.
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May 19, 2010 02:11
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My particular case involves prayer during a graduation ceremony, so I guess I can try and really hope for a response then.
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May 19, 2010 02:19
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Xinlum posted:My particular case involves prayer during a graduation ceremony, so I guess I can try and really hope for a response then. Was it a generic "Lord" or "God" prayer, or was it a "Jesus" prayer? Was it given by a student or by a school official? Do you have audio/video of the prayer? You should have a state ACLU office. Give them a call; I expect they'll listen, but like many have said, the chances are low that they'll be able to take it. Particularly at the national level, they've got some wicked smart people working for them, all paid by membership dues My state ACLU was able to help me out with some research (interns) and an amicus brief (staff attorney's spare time and no litigation costs) for a case of mine.
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May 19, 2010 03:04
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I don't know yet. I'm still working on getting in touch with the officials and seeing what the legality of all of it is. There was a "lord and god" prayer during a scholarship banquet last week that left me feeling particularly uncomfortable and I just don't want it to happen again. Here's is everything I know based off of a "Rules" list they mailed out today.quote:"10. The boys should remove their caps simultaneously when a prayer is offered, and the "National Anthem" played, replacing them at the close of the prayer and song. Girls should not remove their caps at any time during the exercise." To be honest it was my understanding that do to LEE v. WEISMAN and SANTE FE INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT v. DOE that even if students vote for it a prayer during a school sponsored event still violates the establishment clause. I'm trying to see if they would at least consider replacing it with a moment of silence or something. I'm really only asking these questions if it turns nasty or something. Even then I feel that I especially should not be required to take my cap off during a prayer or risk not being allowed to participate.
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May 19, 2010 03:19
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Do you know that there will be a prayer, or is it just that they haven't updated the rules since prayer was offered?
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May 19, 2010 03:25
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Xinlum posted:I don't know yet. I'm still working on getting in touch with the officials and seeing what the legality of all of it is. There was a "lord and god" prayer during a scholarship banquet last week that left me feeling particularly uncomfortable and I just don't want it to happen again. Here's is everything I know based off of a "Rules" list they mailed out today. Is this a public school or a private school? What level?
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May 19, 2010 03:26
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Xinlum posted:I don't know yet. I'm still working on getting in touch with the officials and seeing what the legality of all of it is. There was a "lord and god" prayer during a scholarship banquet last week that left me feeling particularly uncomfortable and I just don't want it to happen again. Here's is everything I know based off of a "Rules" list they mailed out today.
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May 19, 2010 03:27
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Alaemon posted:Do you know that there will be a prayer, or is it just that they haven't updated the rules since prayer was offered? Incredulous Red posted:Is this a public school or a private school? What level? nm posted:I'm sure they will be happy to help you out with telling you if what happened was allowed. Just don't expect them to be your lawyer.
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May 19, 2010 03:41
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Xinlum posted:Public high school in Texas. 12th grade graduation ceremony. ACLU of Texas posted:Posted on Jun 9th, 2009 Take a look at ACLU-TX and call up your local chapter. It can't hurt to ask.
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May 19, 2010 04:24
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Xinlum posted:
Normal principles of U.S. law don't apply in TX. Get on your knees and pray to Jesus, you filthy heathen.
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May 19, 2010 10:58
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Apparently mentioning the ACLU with links is good enough reason to school administrators. I was happy to see this in my inbox today.quote:Mr. NAME, Thanks for telling me about the Corpus Christi case joat mon. Hopefully this solves the problem and I don't have to bother those guys. The ACLU seems pretty cool. Besides straight up donations what can I do to help them out?
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May 19, 2010 20:58
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Xinlum posted:
Go to law school and then practice human rights law. The ACLU always needs new lawyers for its staff and stuff, so it's super easy to get a job there, although it only pays like $80k so it's not great or anything.
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May 19, 2010 21:04
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entris posted:Go to law school and then practice human rights law. The ACLU always needs new lawyers for its staff and stuff, so it's super easy to get a job there, although it only pays like $80k so it's not great or anything. Oh Jesus.
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May 19, 2010 21:06
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Current plan in life is to teach. Anything less uuhh... extreme?
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May 19, 2010 21:09
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Xinlum posted:Apparently mentioning the ACLU with links is good enough reason to school administrators. I was happy to see this in my inbox today. Ok, serious answer: https://secure.aclu.org/site/SPageServer?pagename=TX_Volunteerpage
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May 19, 2010 21:15
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Xinlum posted:Current plan in life is to teach. Anything less uuhh... extreme? Vote for the most right-wing candidates possible. Extreme controversy is what the ACLU feeds on.
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May 19, 2010 22:07
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entris posted:Go to law school and then practice human rights law. The ACLU always needs new lawyers for its staff and stuff, so it's super easy to get a job there, although it only pays like $80k so it's not great or anything. You are a horrible person.
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May 19, 2010 22:42
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nm posted:You are a horrible person. Why is he horrible, because he said $80k isn't that great for an attorney?
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May 19, 2010 23:01
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Runaktla posted:Why is he horrible, because he said $80k isn't that great for an attorney? Because "Go to law school and get a job with the ACLU" would be the legal equivalent of saying something like, "get a theater degree and win an Oscar," or "get a public policy degree and become President." It is a wildly unrealistic career path for 99.99% of anyone striving for it.
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May 19, 2010 23:30
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In my defense, I forgot that this was the Legal Questions thread... I thought this was the Lawyer & Law School thread when I wrote my reply, so I figured everyone would get my joke. I wasn't serious, non-lawyer types 
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May 20, 2010 00:06
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Runaktla posted:Why is he horrible, because he said $80k isn't that great for an attorney? Because those jobs are non-ex-loving-istent.
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May 20, 2010 00:42
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Runaktla posted:Why is he horrible, because he said $80k isn't that great for an attorney? The joke was two-fold: 1) civil rights law jobs are very scarce and competitive, and 2) I was pretending that $80k isn't a lot for an attorney, when in fact most first-time attorneys would kill for $80k in today's market. Most would probably kill for $60k.
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May 20, 2010 01:01
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Hey guys, I know that this one is almost certainly a lost cause, but I feel like something is fishy with a story that my friend is telling me and I was wondering if I can get some verification on what she has been told. My 20-year-old friend met some hippies (apparently friends of friends) at a party and was telling them that her car broke down. They told her that they were moving to Colorado and had a van that was going to be otherwise sitting in their old place, so they offered to sell it to her for $200. She agreed, and the van was hers - she didn't have the $200, so she gave them $150 and then later Western Union'ed another $100 so she ended up paying $250 total. It was apparently a disgusting mess when she got it and not in the best of shape - she cleaned it out and put some money into it, replacing at least the tires on it with new ones. One night after a party, she got drunk and went to sleep in her van. Some cops found her and she ended up getting arrested for underage drinking/DUI (despite having not been driving the car at the time, the keys were in the ignition). She is subsequently going to be doing community service for this offense. Her license was also suspended until sometime this August. She has not driven the van since. A week or so ago, the hippies came back to Connecticut (where she is) and were asking to buy the van back. At least, at first they were offering to buy it. They started threatening her, saying that they were going to call the cops and claim that she has drugs in her house (she doesn't). Eventually, they went to her house to talk to her parents while she wasn't home and it came out that, although the hippies wrote the bill of sale and signed it, my friend's name is nowhere on the bill of sale. The hippies are claiming that this renders the bill of sale worthless, and that if she doesn't hand over the van they will press charges for a stolen vehicle. In addition, they somehow found out about her DUI and are claiming that, because she got it on a car that was registered to them, they can further press charges and supposedly get her thrown in jail. She's pretty much ready to give up on this, but a number of things seem wrong with what I'm being told. I find it really hard to believe that someone can sell their car, find out the paperwork is done wrong, and then take the car back without refunding the money for the sale. The more I go over the story the more I have the feeling that the hippies knew exactly what they were doing - find some naive looking younger girl, sell it to her and leave it with her for awhile hoping she puts money into it, and then wait a few months and threaten her into giving it back. Are the things they're threatening her with valid, and does she really have no right to keep the van since the paperwork was improperly filled out? She's ready to give it back to them but I just wanted to check with people who know the law a little bit better than we do first. She has the copy of the bill of sale and a receipt from Western Union showing that she at least sent them the second $100. Also, for what it's worth, the deal/all people involved are living in CT. I know that it's probably not looking good, but I feel really bad for her and want to help if I possibly can. --- Thanks so much for your help. I do computer support remotely for a living, so if anyone can give me good advice on what she can do (since she put all of her admittedly meager savings into this van) I would be glad to fix their computer in exchange 
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May 20, 2010 04:15
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Murmur Twin posted:Hey guys, How did she register the van in her name if the bill of sale didn't have her name on it?
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May 20, 2010 04:25
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