|
Renoistic posted:That explains why Nier didn't actually loose an eye when he lost the first battle against Shadowlord. That part always bothered me. Old Nier got an eyepatch for no reason while young Nier just got older. Pretty interesting but they could have added a small scene of old Nier getting cut in the face or something. I must say I'm glad they decided on creating old and ugly Nier I just assumed he lost the eye in a completely unrelated fight in the intervening years. I thought it was a nifty way of showing the progression of time, myself
|
#
?
May 20, 2010 23:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 7, 2024 15:32 |
|
|
Yeah, I always just assumed that it was the result of something that happened off screen. It gave this mystique that Nier had really just been running around, getting into dangerous scuffles and chasing faint leads for that period of time and he just ran into a bit too much.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2010 00:00
|
|
|
Policenaut posted:Oh wow, they finally said it. Seems like PR bullshit. The father Nier is most definitely the original one. They stated that before and he has always been the hero in the earliest videos and screenshots they released even in Japan. Syvere fucked around with this message at 00:45 on May 21, 2010 |
|
#
?
May 21, 2010 00:41
|
|
|
Cue nearly infinite amounts of GFAQs-style whining about why the US didn't get Generic Faggy Anime Protagonist.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2010 00:59
|
|
|
UselessLurker posted:Cue nearly infinite amounts of GFAQs-style whining about why the US didn't get Generic Faggy Anime Protagonist. I like how you say "cue" as if it isn't already happening continuously across the internet
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2010 01:02
|
|
|
Xythar posted:I like how you say "cue" as if it isn't already happening continuously across the internet B-B-b-b-but the CAVEMAN
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2010 01:13
|
|
|
I can only see Nier working with a father daughter relationship, to be honest, or at least more relatable
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2010 10:26
|
|
|
Yeah if a brother cared about his sister to this degree it would be creepy. Oh wait Japannnn
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2010 10:41
|
|
|
Honest Thief posted:I can only see Nier working with a father daughter relationship, to be honest, or at least more relatable
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2010 15:23
|
|
|
THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Yeah if a brother cared about his sister to this degree it would be creepy. Yeah. I can understand a father who lost his wife and only has a single daughter being like "I'll kill anyone and do anything to save her." A brother with the same characterization wouldn't feel as real in my view, though in the context of the story presented here I suppose it could still work from a different angle.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2010 18:30
|
|
|
THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Yeah if a brother cared about his sister to this degree it would be creepy. I'm pretty sure that in Replicant, the protagonist is the only family Yonah has left, and vice versa. It makes a lot more sense if he's the father, but I don't think it's THAT far fetched. I still think Gestalt was the original idea. The script just makes more sense. Sounds like horse poo poo to me.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2010 18:54
|
|
|
Dantes posted:Grave of the Fireflies
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2010 21:30
|
|
|
Since we're talking about stuff that doesn't quite make sense, does anyone think that Ending D sort of... doesn't make any sense? I'm still confused as to why Nier would even consider erasing his entire existence to save Kaine, a girl who he's known for a comparatively short time and is literally begging for death. When I originally saw the Trophy for the C/D Boss, I naturally assumed it would be about Yonah. Say like in Endings C and D, her Shade doesn't die in the sunlight and goes violent then forces itself to the surface and so Nier has to fight his own daughter, the whole focus of the entire game, and come to a very heavy and serious decision based upon the fight. I'd think that would have fit more with the whole thematic element of Nier, but instead of Yonah's Shade going berserk and wrapping up the whole depressing sundae with a cherry on top... we get a loose plot thread resolved with Kaine? Couldn't this whole sequence of events happen earlier in the Shadowlord's Castle? Like sometime after Emil's big sacrifice? Maybe after fighting Devola and Popola then shoehorn in some "Oh we're SO CLOSE but I can't hold it in anymore!" angle? Kaine doesn't even really do anything in the Shadowlord fights aside from hang out with Yonah in the corner, I'm sure Yonah could be fine just by herself during that sequence. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that Nier would willingly destroy his entire being to save Kaine and leave Yonah all alone after spending five years fighting for her, doing everything in the entire game on her behalf with such unconditional love. What boggles my mind even more is that Nier looks to be actually kissing Kaine in Ending C, which I imagine is something more suited to RepliCant (a confused young man entering adolescence and getting mixed up signals and feelings then acting upon them) despite that not once do you ever really get any sort of romantic connection between the two. Prove me wrong if necessary but it just kinda seems like A and B were originally planned, but then Cavia remembered they have to hate us and threw together two supplementary endings at the last minute.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2010 22:17
|
|
|
So, my copy arrived today, and I've got the day off, due to unforseen circumstances. Just got past the halfway (presumably) point, and bought the DLC (only heard the first remix so far, but it's great) - I figure I can afford it as I got the game for around 1/3 RRP, due to the Game group being in dire straits business-wise. This game is pretty much just what the doctor ordered. It's definitely more than the sum of its parts. There's so much stuff that should rightfully be annoying me, but it completely fails to here. Instead I'm looking forward to the next plot twist, the next gameplay mix-up, and the next big boss battle. Also, Nier is the baddest motherfucker. Smearing a dozen shades across the wall in one shot, forming an enormous arc of huge red splatters is fun. This is genuinely, surprisingly fun action-RPG. Very compelling. Unless the B-route jacks up the difficulty, I think I might bump it up to Hard once I beat the first loop. Dominic White fucked around with this message at 23:20 on May 21, 2010 |
|
#
?
May 21, 2010 23:17
|
|
|
Policenaut posted:Prove me wrong if necessary but it just kinda seems like A and B were originally planned, but then Cavia remembered they have to hate us and threw together two supplementary endings at the last minute. I agree with this. I think the A and B endings are clearly the "canon" endings, while C and D was just cavia fulfilling its douche quota, although in kind of a half-hearted way. The D ending makes literally no sense in any kind of thematic or contextualized way. I do think there's something to be said for it in kind of a meta way, where the game is basically saying Why would you play this entire story and choose the one option that makes no sense in the story you loving retard, we're going to delete your saves and make you do this poo poo from the beginning all over again, maybe you'll get the message next time dumbass Also, as regards the Popola and Devola thing and why they turn on you after helping you is due to the fact that they NEED the sealed verses that you unlock in Weiss before they can do whatever it is they are supposed to do. Not sure if the game actually makes that explicit or not, but I've heard that said on other forums.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2010 23:56
|
|
|
Just a bit past the halfway mark here, and all I can say is this, really. Drakengard was a game about hate, made with hate, dripping with hate from every pore. Nier is a game about love, and made with no shortage of it too. And it's pretty impressive how it manages to be heartwarming at the same time as having the entire group of heroes dripping with blood from head to toe.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 00:22
|
|
|
Policenaut posted:What boggles my mind even more is that Nier looks to be actually kissing Kaine in Ending C, which I imagine is something more suited to RepliCant (a confused young man entering adolescence and getting mixed up signals and feelings then acting upon them) despite that not once do you ever really get any sort of romantic connection between the two. Kaine almost sort-of kisses Nier when she has him pinned against the wall after Emil's sacrifice. So exactly once.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 01:04
|
|
|
Policenaut posted:Since we're talking about stuff that doesn't quite make sense, does anyone think that Ending D sort of... doesn't make any sense? I kind of thought that when I got up to it at first as well, in fact I was thinking during my first playthrough that there'd eventually be some kind of reveal that Kaine was connected to Yonah in some way (possibly even something ridiculous like YONAH FROM THE FUTURE!!! as they do look kind of similar) and that was why he did it. When I figured that wasn't the case after finding out Kaine's actual past I just thought "huh that's kind of dumb" But when I actually saw the ending I think it actually does work out. The most important thing for Nier was always to save his daughter, and she was safe. She wouldn't miss him because she wouldn't remember him and Kaine was there to take care of her. It's pretty bittersweet but it also works in an  kind of way.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 05:55
|
|
|
As far as questions about the storyline go, it looks like there is a guide book to the world of Nier coming out in Japan on May 28th: http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/switch-language/product/4048686712/ref=dp_change_lang?ie=UTF8&language=en_JP http://kouryaku.dengeki.com/book/4-04-868671-6/4-04-868671-6.html Hopefully a lot of these questions about the ending and the world in general will be answered, assuming someone that speaks Japanese can get ahold of the book.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 08:53
|
|
|
The game points out how self-sacrificing and caring Nier is very often, especially if you do all the quests. I love how he actually apologizes to Kaine and Emil because they have to sleep outside (and does it in the middle of a dungeon run, no less). I didn't have a problem with the ending at all, because that is exactly what Nier would have done if given the choice, at least if Yonah was safe.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 08:57
|
|
|
pairofdimes posted:As far as questions about the storyline go, it looks like there is a guide book to the world of Nier coming out in Japan on May 28th: Oh poo poo, I think this is the book that's supposed to include the Weapon Stories too.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 09:26
|
|
|
Policenaut posted:Oh poo poo, I think this is the book that's supposed to include the Weapon Stories too. Which is something that people laughed at when they first announced it, but given how much they've tightened up the writing in general for Nier, they might actually be pretty neat this time. Hopefully someone with a good grasp of both languages can translate.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 09:38
|
|
|
poor Beepy, even before going for ending B it was a sad fight. getting ending B will not be tear free it seems I was sure during the first half of the story the game would drive The Road's homage to it's story core; not quite what happened, but still a great story, and I'm with the NY Times review on this. Too bad about the very obvious budget issues, Square could have thrown them some more money Honest Thief fucked around with this message at 12:44 on May 22, 2010 |
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 12:39
|
|
|
I've not played any further yet, but the entire first half seems designed to build an attachment between you, the world, the places you've been and the characters you've met, so that when poo poo hits the fan, you're that much more involved in the story. Awfully dorky of me, but anyone else reminded of Gurren Lagann?
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 14:35
|
|
|
Honest Thief posted:poor Beepy, even before going for ending B it was a sad fight. getting ending B will not be tear free it seems The ending B playthrough does a great job at making you feel like a complete dick before every single boss. All of their stories are so depressing 
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 16:27
|
|
|
Just beat Ending A, and yeah it really feels like there's more. I think I can see the specific points that would change the endings as well. I think my guess ended being kind of right about the nature of the shades although I didn't guess some of the points. So after ending B there is literally no difference until the ending cutscenes for endings C and D? Because I'm thinking I don't want to go through another however many hours for an extra cutscene, I'm playing this mostly for the story. Time to go back and read certain spoilers and not others! Edit: Also I think I can kind of guess why ending D does what it does, if it's what I think it is.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 16:35
|
|
|
THE AWESOME GHOST posted:So after ending B there is literally no difference until the ending cutscenes for endings C and D? Because I'm thinking I don't want to go through another however many hours for an extra cutscene, I'm playing this mostly for the story. I didn't notice any differences whatsoever. There were a bunch of new cutscenes for the ending B playthrough, but none at all that I can remember for C and D.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 16:39
|
|
|
It doesn't take very long to go from ending B to C/D if you rush through and skip anything, I think I did most of it in a night (including picking up the remaining weapons I needed) Only part that sucks is by the time you get to ending C/D you've gone through the Lost Shrine approximately 48 bajillion times.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 16:49
|
|
|
Xythar posted:It doesn't take very long to go from ending B to C/D if you rush through and skip anything, I think I did most of it in a night (including picking up the remaining weapons I needed) Yeah I'm starting the New Game+ and I'm already sick of this drat place Also I was under the impression that Understanding the Shades means you'd be able to hear what they're saying as they die  Guess it's only the bosses then?And am I remembering wrong or did the Trophy descriptions change to match the Shades' real names? Edit: Literally the next room I walk into and A little kid screams at me to go back before I kill it oh god THE AWESOME GHOST fucked around with this message at 17:30 on May 22, 2010 |
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 17:26
|
|
|
Can anyone point me in the direction of a site that lists missables and just general beginner information? I just got past the lost shrine now. Also, when will I be able to kill that Boar thats on the northern plain?
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 17:40
|
|
|
casual poster posted:Can anyone point me in the direction of a site that lists missables and just general beginner information? I just got past the lost shrine now.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 17:48
|
|
|
Dominic White posted:I've not played any further yet, but the entire first half seems designed to build an attachment between you, the world, the places you've been and the characters you've met, so that when poo poo hits the fan, you're that much more involved in the story. Kind of. It's a common storytelling device really, The thing is not only does the first half of the game set you up to feel horrible about the second half, from what I've seen so far the entire first playthrough sets you up to feel horrible about the second. It's really cool what they've done with it, it's a shame that there are people who will probably get one ending and stop.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 17:54
|
|
|
THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Kind of. It's a common storytelling device really Not really so common in games, though. I can think of quite a few where you get to see the world as you play through it, then there's one last whip-round in the final section, but not too many that give you the whole first half of the game for fairly casual adventuring with no grand menaces to worry about, then crank things up for the rest.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 18:05
|
|
|
Oh god oh god is the (ending B playthrough) Facade Shade The dog of that man who died getting him medicine, and then the man died because he didn't have the medicine? It looks like him although I guess a lot of the shades are supposed to be older so it might not beDominic White posted:Not really so common in games, though. I can think of quite a few where you get to see the world as you play through it, then there's one last whip-round in the final section, but not too many that give you the whole first half of the game for fairly casual adventuring with no grand menaces to worry about, then crank things up for the rest. Yeah it actually really mirrors Ocarina of Time in that way.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 18:37
|
|
|
THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Oh god oh god is the (ending B playthrough) Facade Shade The dog of that man who died getting him medicine, and then the man died because he didn't have the medicine? It looks like him although I guess a lot of the shades are supposed to be older so it might not be You see the alpha wolf shade in Part 1 too in one of the desert cutscenes with the wolves, though there's no emphasis placed on it
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 19:12
|
|
|
Dominic White posted:Awfully dorky of me, but anyone else reminded of Gurren Lagann? The last drill attack against the giant ball/Legion boss is literally an homage to the first episode of Gurren Lagann, when they start pushing the drill further... I'd LOVE it if someone with enough skill would make a gif and put the crazy Gurren glasses on Nier and Emil. And the whole making you feel bad for killing the bosses thing reminds me of Front Mission 3. In that game you could choose between two story paths very early on. Depending on which choice you made, some characters would join your party and others would become bosses. When you beat the game and started playing the other path, many of the roles were reversed. You realized that some characters you killed the first time around actually weren't so bad, but on the other hand you had to kill characters that had been in your party before. It was pretty and gave the game a very clear anti-war message without being overbearing.
Renoistic fucked around with this message at 19:29 on May 22, 2010 |
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 19:21
|
|
|
Dominic White posted:I've not played any further yet, but the entire first half seems designed to build an attachment between you, the world, the places you've been and the characters you've met, so that when poo poo hits the fan, you're that much more involved in the story. Crowbear posted:The ending B playthrough does a great job at making you feel like a complete dick before every single boss. All of their stories are so depressing
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 19:27
|
|
|
Honest Thief posted:it's more than that, it drives a common theme foward, it's rare to see such care gone into random quests, most reviewers criticized the fetch-quest mechanic but I think they missed the point; if anything Nier gives context to it's actions Yeah I really loved this. It goes from a man loving his daughter so much he will risk his life for her to a man so obsessed with his purpose he is committing intentional genocide without caring about anyone else's feelings. It becomes really obvious when he yells at the shadowlord, something like "I don't care about your pain, I don't want to understand" when he's in the EXACT same situation as him. A lot of the bosses the first playthrough at some point really looked like they were just sad when you killed them, and the robot talks so you know what he's saying but hearing the whole thing is pretty horrible. It's worse because it looks like the shades and "humans" are really fighting each other for the exact same reasons, and neither side understands it. Every boss fight I've seen so far in part 2 looks like it was really the humans' fault, the wolves attacked because their children were killed, the robot didn't attack at all and wanted to make friends Honestly I usually don't like saying this but really this is one game where it's worth experiencing the story even if you don't like the gameplay.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 20:02
|
|
|
THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Every boss fight I've seen so far in part 2 looks like it was really the humans' fault, the wolves attacked because their children were killed, the robot didn't attack at all and wanted to make friends The Facade one was so contrived. They crashed the wedding because some random goons were throwing spears at them? Weren't they throwing spears at them because the wolves attack people all the time for no reason? There's also Tyrann and the tit lizard, who are both massive bastards in the novel. I think it's 50/50 overall, with the big problem being miscommunication. Really, the war should have ended as soon as a shade possessed someone and, without the language barrier, learned the other side of the story. The guys at The Aerie claim to want peace, but as soon as Nier gets there they just flip out, it's more frustrating than tragic when you think about it.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 21:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 7, 2024 15:32 |
|
|
Tempo 119 posted:The Facade one was so contrived. They crashed the wedding because some random goons were throwing spears at them? Weren't they throwing spears at them because the wolves attack people all the time for no reason? That well known dude who indiscriminately slaughters Shades showed up and a lot of you are secretly Shades. Do you: Flip the gently caress out, or act really calm, particularly when you're sorta beings who don't have that great a grip on reality to begin with?
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2010 22:04
|
|