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Bojanglesworth posted:Not bad. I'm sorry but that looks like the most miserable time I have ever seen in my life. Do you enjoy going to those "shows" or do you go just to take photos? Have you ever been to one? It's more fun than a barrel of monkeys even if you're not into the music. And a lot less poo flinging too. pr0digal, you'd do well to mess around with the highlight/shadow sliders to bring down the highlights from the flash. Not too much, just to bring out a little more detail and not have the bright areas be so cornea-burningly bright. HPL fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Jul 4, 2010 |
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Jul 4, 2010 01:22
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AtomicManiac posted:House shows are a thousand times more fun. If you're even reasonably competent with a camera you can get stupid drunk for free (if that's your thing), and you get all kinds of amazing shots that you'd NEVER get at a venue. Incidentally, there's always more women at house shows. There's less bullshit moshing, so your gear is usually safer (except from theft, it's more likely at a house show) and you get to meet and interact with way more people. The entire vibe is just so much nicer, more positive, and everyone is more relaxed and willing to have fun. As both a musician and a photographer, I prefer house shows. The networking is so much better, the show itself is more fun, and if there's money to be had the bands will get a fair cut of it. At the very least, you'll walk out with free drinks, at least one cool story and if you can network worth a drat you can pick up a few potential models. I wouldn't recommend doing it if you don't like music though. At least around here, most house shows are super eclectic ranging from hardcore, doom metal, pop-punk and folk all on one bill. Where do you hail from? HPL posted:Have you ever been to one? It's more fun than a barrel of monkeys even if you're not into the music. And a lot less poo flinging too. A house show? When I was in High School. I was honestly unaware that people had shows at houses still, especially ones that paid money to the bands. How does that work?
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Jul 4, 2010 01:22
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Bojanglesworth posted:A house show? When I was in High School. I was honestly unaware that people had shows at houses still, especially ones that paid money to the bands. How does that work? I've only been to ones where it's mostly friends and fans of the bands there and the bands are just playing for shits and giggles and it's BYOB. The thing about punk and metal crowds is that it's largely a self-policing bunch so if anyone does any stupid poo poo they usually mob justice kicks in and they're out the door ASAP.
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Jul 4, 2010 01:28
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Bojanglesworth posted:Where do you hail from? Omaha, Nebraska. There's basically 5 venues in town: A poo poo-hole DIY place, The Local Concert hall that has the bigger concerts, but has a basment venue that's pretty nice, The Waiting Room which is amazing and hosts regional and lesser known national bands, The Slowdown which is run by Saddle Creek Records and then a Community Center type place. The punk place is pretty good with money but it only fits around 50 people, the local hall charges $400 a night, the waiting room charges about the same and The Slowdown $1,700(!) for a night for the small side, god knows what they'd charge to use the big stage. They basically don't want anyone booking shows there except their staff. The Community center is decent, but no one gets paid and it's hard to get shows there. So with that in mind, you can either play at a bar (no one under 21 can come) and the bars usually suck anyway, potentially lose your rear end booking your own show at a venue, get scammed on by shithead promoters or play a house-show. Bands with some clout and connections get asked to be on shows, and there are 2ish good promoters in town, but you'll rarely get paid around here playing at venues. House shows on the other hand work one of three ways: 1) It's all local bands, and it's invite only. Friends of the owners/renters and the "cool" people that know the bands get in. Everyone else never even knows the show happened. 2) There's some touring bands coming, who are friends with the people who live in the house. They charge a modest door ($2-5) and give most of the money to the touring band. 3) The people who run the house treat it like a business. They book 1 or 2 shows a week/month and They always charge a door, and usually split the money with the bands. It's a decent way to cover utilities + some of the rent if you're smart and willing to do the work.
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Jul 4, 2010 02:15
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pr0digal, all your pictures make me think you get to have an absolute blast.
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Jul 4, 2010 19:05
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You know, after looking through all of SA, I think this is the only thread I can post my pics. There isn't even really an official EDC thread (usually there is, even if it's in the Crackhead Clubhouse, ugh). Anyway, here is Day 1 at least...Day 2 is up too, but I was so sick that day, that the pics didn't come out as good. http://photo.rukes.com/edc10a/edc10a.html  Click here for the full 1024x682 image.  Click here for the full 1024x682 image.  Click here for the full 1024x682 image. As a result of the overblown crazyness after the event (1 death out of 185,000 attendees), my pics have appeared all over. Strangest one so far is CBS News with Katie Couric, got asked if it was OK to use two pictures for the background image while the anchor was introducing the story.
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Jul 4, 2010 22:33
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Bojanglesworth posted:Not bad. I'm sorry but that looks like the most miserable time I have ever seen in my life. Do you enjoy going to those "shows" or do you go just to take photos? It would probably be fun if you were into that type of music but if you are just going to take photos... I'm really into that kind of music so small venues and house shows are my kinda thing. And yeah I know I need to bring down the highlights, I usually do since I blow it out sometimes. And yeah, that show was a loving blast. I was literally on top of the drum set for some of the show
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Jul 5, 2010 03:49
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Bojanglesworth posted:Do you enjoy going to those "shows"
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Jul 5, 2010 08:13
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evil_bunnY posted:You'll find it's the reason most of us shoot bands. Its just a question, relax. The reason I ask is because to ME, taking $6k worth of gear to a basement party to shoot for free or next to nothing doesn't seem very enjoyable. I ask because I am curious.
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Jul 5, 2010 08:29
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Bojanglesworth posted:Its just a question, relax. The reason I ask is because to ME, taking $6k worth of gear to a basement party to shoot for free or next to nothing doesn't seem very enjoyable. I ask because I am curious. Don't you enjoy taking photographs?
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Jul 5, 2010 09:42
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fronkpies posted:Don't you enjoy taking photographs? Absolutely, but I find it hard to enjoy myself when I have to worry constantly about my gear getting broken, or stolen. I enjoy taking photos, but I very rarely take my camera out unless I am making money. Does that make me less passionate about photography? Maybe in some people eyes, but I don't see the point in investing all of that money unless I can make it back.
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Jul 5, 2010 10:07
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Bojanglesworth posted:Absolutely, but I find it hard to enjoy myself when I have to worry constantly about my gear getting broken, or stolen. I enjoy taking photos, but I very rarely take my camera out unless I am making money. Does that make me less passionate about photography? Maybe in some people eyes, but I don't see the point in investing all of that money unless I can make it back. Cameras are tools, tools eventually break. It's what insurance is for.
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Jul 5, 2010 10:40
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I, Butthole posted:Cameras are tools, tools eventually break. It's what insurance is for. Yes, they are, and they will. I try to avoid my gear getting trashed for no reason though. That's just me, call me crazy.
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Jul 5, 2010 10:56
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Bojanglesworth posted:I don't see the point in investing all of that money unless I can make it back. For us the enjoyment of shooting bands is worth the risk, for you it isn't. Live on, be happy.
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Jul 5, 2010 13:41
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Bojanglesworth posted:Absolutely, but I find it hard to enjoy myself when I have to worry constantly about my gear getting broken, or stolen. I enjoy taking photos, but I very rarely take my camera out unless I am making money. Does that make me less passionate about photography? Maybe in some people eyes, but I don't see the point in investing all of that money unless I can make it back. Really? You don't ever get a crazy idea in your head and want to execute it? Or explore a subject that has a personal interest for you? I mean, I understand the whole 'don't work for free' argument, but this kind of sounds like you don't really enjoy it as much as you say you do. Hey, I enjoy working with high-end servers and network stuff but it's not what I would call fun. I can't stop taking photos; that's the whole reason I do this. I go nuts if I'm not working on 2 projects with 5 on the backburner, and that's on top of anything I get paid to shoot. If anything I'm more invested in the personal work because it's 100% mine, from conception to final product, with no deadlines or outside influence.
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Jul 5, 2010 13:56
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Bojanglesworth posted:Yes, they are, and they will. I try to avoid my gear getting trashed for no reason though. That's just me, call me crazy. I am calling you crazy. That's like being a newspaper delivery boy and saying 'I don't want to take my bike, it might get scratched.' I, Butthole posted:Cameras are tools, tools eventually break. It's what insurance is for. Inland marine, baby. I take pictures because I like to take pictures. Most of the stuff I go to won't allow me to take my camera unless I am media that night. Saturday I shot the first half of an arena football game and then got to watch the rest as a guest. I could have taken my cameras to my seat, but I need some time away from it. Of course I spent a good portion of the night thinking 'need that shot,' 'could have got that' and 'that's the shot I needed for the paper.' I make good money doing what I do. However, I would (and sometimes) do it for free. I've dragged my gear to places that I wouldn't take a lot of things, but again, that's why I have insurace. Those small places allowed to me learn, make a name for myself and land the job I do now. I still find myself hitting those places just to get small crowds, great local bands and good times. Eeek fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Jul 5, 2010 |
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Jul 5, 2010 16:59
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dreggory posted:Really? You don't ever get a crazy idea in your head and want to execute it? Or explore a subject that has a personal interest for you? I mean, I understand the whole 'don't work for free' argument, but this kind of sounds like you don't really enjoy it as much as you say you do. Hey, I enjoy working with high-end servers and network stuff but it's not what I would call fun. I do shoot photos for fun, mainly of my son or my friends cars and stuff like that. I am talking about shooting something that should be paid, such as a show or event, that I won't go shoot just for the hell of it. evil_bunnY posted:Most of us don't go because of the money. Cool. I can see where shooting a band could be fun. To me though it ins't. I don't see why I am getting lynched here because I don't enjoy something/won't shoot something for free. I'm not bashing you guys for doing it, I am just saying for ME, as a professional, it's something I choose not to do. Eeek posted:I am calling you crazy. That's like being a newspaper delivery boy and saying 'I don't want to take my bike, it might get scratched.' It's one thing if he didn't want to ride his bike to deliver newspapers. It is a totally different thing if he doesn't want to ride his bike when he is not delivering newspapers, because that is his tool and if it gets messed up he cannot perform his job properly. Bojanglesworth fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Jul 5, 2010 |
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Jul 5, 2010 18:22
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I'm not about to take a stance here, but I'll say this much. Concert photography in general is not a money maker industry. If you want to do it, be prepared to make little money doing it, especially if you want to shoot larger acts. The money in concert photography is shooting small bands that need the photos. I personally like shooting the larger shows and the only money I've ever made off of those is when a magazine has bought a photo after the fact. I've been shooting for 7 years now and I've made less than a grand in total off my live shots. I don't shot shows nearly as often as I used to, I used to be at one a week or so, now it's closer to one a month. Half of that is because I don't have time, half of that is because I've shot drat near everyone I have a real interest in shooting, some of them upwards of 10 times or more by now. The reason I started doing it was because I loved it and it got me into shows for free. I may not have made money on it but I've saved thousands of dollars if not 10's of thousands on concert tickets in the 7 years I've been shooting shows. That being said, I won't go to those small shows any more, not because I wouldn't get paid or not because I'm afraid of getting my gear damaged but because it's not my scene anymore. If you enjoy it, by all means, fire away, it's just not for me anymore.
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Jul 5, 2010 18:48
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Guess I'm lucky in that I live in a city with so many bands of so many genres and so many different kinds of venues that I could pretty much never run out of stuff to shoot. When I do get bored of shooting one particular band, I either leave the camera at home when I go see them or bring an old film camera and shoot casually. That way I actually enjoy the performance more.
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Jul 5, 2010 19:22
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Bojanglesworth posted:Its just a question, relax. The reason I ask is because to ME, taking $6k worth of gear to a basement party to shoot for free or next to nothing doesn't seem very enjoyable. I ask because I am curious. For a house show I take 3 things: My 30mm 1.4, The Body and a 430exII. Anything else gets left in the bag anyway, so I just leave the bag in my trunk. Take precautions and don't be an rear end in a top hat and people will look out for you. As for the shooting for free/next to nothing, I'd be god-drat impressed if you could make any decent money doing free-lance concert photography. I've always treated it as a marketing tool. I shoot the band, watermark the shots. Give the band the shots, they see them and go "This dude is good" then they're asking about promo shots. They post the water-marked shots online and other people and bands see them and interest for my work spreads. I've gotten inquiries from people I've never met from shooting the right bands.
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Jul 5, 2010 20:33
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AtomicManiac posted:For a house show I take 3 things: My 30mm 1.4, The Body and a 430exII. Anything else gets left in the bag anyway, so I just leave the bag in my trunk. Take precautions and don't be an rear end in a top hat and people will look out for you. I see what you are saying, but I don't have inexpensive gear that I can take somewhere. I have all expensive poo poo that is my primary and only gear. I don't mean that in an elitist dickhead way, I'm just saying I don't have the luxury of having stuff that I can replace for cheap. As for watermarking photos and then hopefully getting a paid gig down the line, no thanks, I will just shoot paid jobs and be ahead in the long and short run. edit to not sound like a dickhead: I 100% do NOT think that my photos are that great. It took me months to pick enough of my photos that I thought were good to put on my website. I just happen to be very, very good at marketing myself and have the luxury of having a ton of word-of-mouth referrals. I'm sorry I come across as a jerk, I just cannot justify shooting for free, ever. Unless its something I very explicitly want to do to the point where I either shoot it for free or I don't get to shoot it at all. I think there will be plenty of people here and on POTN that will agree with me in the sense that I think of photography as a business. It was never a hobby for me, I bought a camera, tinkered around with it and two months later I was shooting Virgin Festival for Red Bull for $3k. I know thats not how everybody does it, but I have been doing this exact same thing for almost four years now and I am living full time off of photography, supporting my wife and baby. I'd say its working for me. Bojanglesworth fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jul 5, 2010 |
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Jul 5, 2010 21:25
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Bojanglesworth posted:I see what you are saying, but I don't have inexpensive gear that I can take somewhere. I have all expensive poo poo that is my primary and only gear. I don't mean that in an elitist dickhead way, I'm just saying I don't have the luxury of having stuff that I can replace for cheap. As for watermarking photos and then hopefully getting a paid gig down the line, no thanks, I will just shoot paid jobs and be ahead in the long and short run. To be honest, if I could get a 3k paying gig right now, I'd never shoot for free again. However, that's just not the case for me, and probably anyone else, and I think you're the exception rather than the rule. So with that in said, let's turn the tides to a more positive route: How the gently caress did you manage to get a shoot like that 2 months out? Do you just know the right people or what?
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Jul 5, 2010 22:06
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I completely understand what your saying Bojangles, but there has to be a little time for yourself and for doing something just for the enjoyment, regardless of how much you make out of it. I'm sure you have some kind of hobby that provides that for you, and you probably will never make anything off of doing it but you do it just the same because you enjoy it. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to say "dude your a photographer you should do it all the time because you love it, its a passion" I can see why you wouldn't get any enjoyment out of shooting a house party for free, but I think your missing the point a bit and focusing on the money aspect. Its like when a mechanic goes home after a long day working on cars then sits in his garage working on his old ford till eleven at night.
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Jul 5, 2010 22:18
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AtomicManiac posted:To be honest, if I could get a 3k paying gig right now, I'd never shoot for free again. However, that's just not the case for me, and probably anyone else, and I think you're the exception rather than the rule. So with that in said, let's turn the tides to a more positive route: How the gently caress did you manage to get a shoot like that 2 months out? Do you just know the right people or what? I think a lot of the people on here are more than capable of getting gigs like that. I see photos on here everyday that blow mine out of the water. As for Virgin Festival, it was mostly right place, right time. I was shooting an event for a store in DC called Kickballers, which has since closed. Red Bull sponsored the event and the Field Marketing Manager was there and asked me if I could send him some of the photos for a recap. After I edited everything I sent him and email and asked if he could keep me in mind for any future events. A coupe of weeks later I got a call from him asking if I could shoot the following weekend for Vfest. After that I started shooting any events that RB had in VA, MD and DC. I would say that it is definitely more who I know. People definitely have the money to spend (Especially in the area I live) when it comes to a photographer, so its just about making connections with the right people. Generally, the way I think about photography is I would rather have no work for a couple of weeks, then book one big job. The amount of time I would have to spend driving, shooting, standing around, editing etc to make $50 here or $100 there isn't worth it in the long run when I can book one job for $1000 (or even $500) and call it a day.
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Jul 5, 2010 22:28
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Not to mention your price drives your brand and name.
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Jul 5, 2010 22:32
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fronkpies posted:I completely understand what your saying Bojangles, but there has to be a little time for yourself and for doing something just for the enjoyment, regardless of how much you make out of it. I'm sure you have some kind of hobby that provides that for you, and you probably will never make anything off of doing it but you do it just the same because you enjoy it. That is actually a great analogy. I see exactly what you are saying. I will admit that I am pretty preoccupied with making money when it comes to most things in my life. It's not the best way to be but having a young baby I feel like if I am not making money I am not doing everything I can to ensure my son has everything in life. Ya know?
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Jul 5, 2010 22:39
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Ishi Boat Party. It was awesome. The problem with a boat party is there's only like 40 people there, and you're stuck for like 5 hours. Full set. http://www.flickr.com/photos/dunx17/sets/72157624304634203/with/4764916345/       
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Jul 6, 2010 00:29
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Bojanglesworth posted:Cool. I can see where shooting a band could be fun. To me though it ins't. I don't see why I am getting lynched here because I don't enjoy something/won't shoot something for free. I'm not bashing you guys for doing it, I am just saying for ME, as a professional, it's something I choose not to do. I call it networking, which pays off (and already has for me) in the longrun. But I'm also cheap.
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Jul 6, 2010 00:31
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Anti_Social posted:I call it networking, which pays off (and already has for me) in the longrun. Cool. Internet friends for life?
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Jul 6, 2010 00:40
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Marketing is my weakest point as a photographer. I'll be the first to admit that. I would probably be one of the top music photographers in town if I could devote more time to it but I have a decent daytime job so I haven't been able to do stuff like promo shoots during the weekdays. That plus I'm a really crappy networker. Man, I need an agent or something.
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Jul 6, 2010 06:57
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HPL posted:Marketing is my weakest point as a photographer. I'll be the first to admit that. I would probably be one of the top music photographers in town if I could devote more time to it but I have a decent daytime job so I haven't been able to do stuff like promo shoots during the weekdays. That plus I'm a really crappy networker. Man, I need an agent or something. An agent actually isn't a bad idea. I shopped around for one for a bit but its pretty tricky because if you find your own work (like thru word of mouth or like some guy comes up to you off the street) you have to refer them to your agent, who then discusses prices and everything. If you try to do some stuff under the radar and they find out you can be sued because you are signed to a contract with them. One of the guys I spoke with had a lengthy contract with all types of stuff like that, one of my friends deals with that aspect of law and he looked over the contract for me and advised me not to even think about signing it. As much as I bash doing shoots for free, thats a big part of how I got my start. I just mainly want to point out to everyone that it isn't ALWAYS the case that you are doing free shoots to hopefully gain paid clients in the future. It's important to distance yourself from that as quickly as possible, otherwise you will be "that guy who shoots photos for free" when it is much better to be "the guy who takes great photos for reasonable photos," and then eventually "The guy who takes AMAZING photos and his prices are Definitely worth it."
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Jul 6, 2010 07:50
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Well I might be doing some freelance work for Under The Gun Review (http://underthegunreview.net/). I will be providing coverage for Warped Tour if/when I get confirmation but I was also told I would be used to cover some other concerts in MA. Beginning with the Cool Tour at the House of Blues in Boston. The bands that will be playing are As I Lay Dying, Underoath, Between the Buried and Me, Blessthefall, The Acacia Strain, Architects, Cancer Bats and War Of Ages. It's not definate yet but I was told that if I wanted to cover it he would be able to get me access. So I'm pretty stoked but at the same time pretty nervous. I've never shot at the House of Blues and if I remember correctly it has a no flash policy. Thankfully I have a 5D2 and a Sigma 24-70mm 2.8. Any tips from those who have shot these bands?
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Jul 7, 2010 04:12
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pr0digal posted:Well I might be doing some freelance work for Under The Gun Review (http://underthegunreview.net/). I will be providing coverage for Warped Tour if/when I get confirmation but I was also told I would be used to cover some other concerts in MA. Beginning with the Cool Tour at the House of Blues in Boston. The bands that will be playing are As I Lay Dying, Underoath, Between the Buried and Me, Blessthefall, The Acacia Strain, Architects, Cancer Bats and War Of Ages. AILD - Singer leans forward a lot hiding his face, does a lot of hair flinging and lots of sort of fist pumping. Their drummer is also great for photos, if you have a longer lens, bring it. Underoath - The singer has really long and scragly hair, it tends to cover his face a lot so keep your eyes peeled for when he pulls it out of the way. The short guitarist moves around a lot so he can be hard to shoot. The other guitarist is considerably easier. BTBM - For the most part they are easy to shoot, they don't move around all that much, though the singer also plays keyboard and he usually sets up sideways which can be tough. The Acacia Strain - I've shot them twice, but I honestly can't remember anything in particular about them.
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Jul 7, 2010 13:27
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Cancer Bats like to run around a lot.
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Jul 7, 2010 15:04
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rockcity posted:BTBM - For the most part they are easy to shoot, they don't move around all that much, though the singer also plays keyboard and he usually sets up sideways which can be tough. Expanding on that, he also sets the keyboard up about halfway back on the stage, which sucks even more.
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Jul 7, 2010 23:45
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I, Butthole posted:Expanding on that, he also sets the keyboard up about halfway back on the stage, which sucks even more. Yes, I should have added that as well. I should be cleared for shooting Warped Tour now. I think what I'm going to do is do a more selective coverage this year doing features on certain bands with live photos, interviews, and posed photos. I have one set up with a fairly new band called The Word Alive so far. My big goal is to do this with Andrew WK.
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Jul 8, 2010 19:43
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rockcity posted:Yes, I should have added that as well. Make sure you shoot Dillinger Escape Plan. If you can't get something out of this kind of performance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-lxwlgyhhA well, you probably shouldn't even bother.
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Jul 8, 2010 20:43
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AtomicManiac posted:Make sure you shoot Dillinger Escape Plan. If you can't get something out of this kind of performance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-lxwlgyhhA well, you probably shouldn't even bother. Yeah, I'll probably shoot them too. I've shot them a couple times now. They are ridiculously hard to shoot indoors, but outdoors in much better. Somewhere in my archives I have a few good shots of the singer standing on the barricade and blowing fire over the crowd from probably 5 years ago.
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Jul 8, 2010 21:40
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rockcity posted:Yes, I should have added that as well. Have you gotten coverage confirmation yet? Warped is Tuesday for me and I haven't heard anything back from MSO yet. Starting to get a bit nervous
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Jul 9, 2010 20:23
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pr0digal posted:Have you gotten coverage confirmation yet? Warped is Tuesday for me and I haven't heard anything back from MSO yet. I haven't specifically gotten confirmation, but I've worked with Bari before and he didn't sound like it would be a problem for me when he sent me the form. You're definitely going to want to email him today to check. If I remember correctly from a few years ago when I was applying on my own, they send out a confirmation email a few days prior with instructions, usually with the press managers name and number and where you need to go to sign in. I got confirmation from The Word Alive that I'm set to do my interview/photo shoot with them, I just need to set a time the day of since they don't know when they're playing until that morning. I'm making progress on getting one with Andrew WK and Parkway Drive as well.
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Jul 9, 2010 20:31
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