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Your yellow plug device is better than the wire nuts, but I'm pretty sure code requires a junction box with an outlet. Maybe you could use a surface mount type? I'm extremely far from being an actual expert though.
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Jul 17, 2010 05:58
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Yeah, you need to put in a real outlet box back there. Is it feasible to cut a 2x4" hole and mount an old-work box in the back of the cabinet? That's the "proper" solution, and will cost you about $2 in parts. An old-work box is a blue plastic box with little plastic wings that you tighten with screws and they will clamp onto the plywood. You'll also need a $.50 receptacle and an outlet cover to go with it. They're very easy to install. Surface-mount is OK, too. You at least have some cable to work with; I didn't when I upgraded the vent to an over-the-range microwave in my old kitchen and had to compromise a bit on location:  I did it properly in my addition, and recommend you do similar: 
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Jul 17, 2010 12:57
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:Welp, I just popped out a NEMA 15A outlet with a new, shiny NEMA 20A outlet to go with my shiny gently used 2200VA UPS I got for $20. Wire gauge was 12, so I'm good there, breaker was also 20. Here's hoping I never load it all the way otherwise my breaker will cry and my garage will have no more power. I recently got a new 2200VA UPS also, and right now my max load will be ~800ish watt. I checked and found a NEMA 20A outlet in my apartment, so I should be alright to plug it into that right? Is the only way to really verify that it is *really* a wire that can handle 20A is to open the outlet and visually inspect the wire?
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Jul 17, 2010 23:40
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Question. My family's cooler just took a dump. they bought a used Universal Nolin ULG50BD with the following on the data plate volts: 115/208-230 wires: 3 phase: 1 hz: 60 min cir amp: 20 max fuse or hacr type circ break: 20 It is currently set up to run on 220. However they want it to run on 110. It didn't come with a user manual and I cant see a visable wiring diagram to see the proper way to rewire it for 110. Is there a standard way to rewire or is is dependent on the manufacturer? or if someone could find me a manual online (I couldn't) I would be grateful.
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Jul 18, 2010 00:04
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antimatter posted:I recently got a new 2200VA UPS also, and right now my max load will be ~800ish watt. I checked and found a NEMA 20A outlet in my apartment, so I should be alright to plug it into that right? Is the only way to really verify that it is *really* a wire that can handle 20A is to open the outlet and visually inspect the wire?
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Jul 18, 2010 01:13
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Farside posted:Question. My family's cooler just took a dump. they bought a used Universal Nolin ULG50BD with the following on the data plate
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Jul 18, 2010 01:17
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What is the proper way to combine ground wires outdoors? I have a few #6 (bare, 7 strand) grounds that need to be joined before they make it back to a junction box. On the one I did so far, I twisted them together to make them secure, then soldered them for an extra measure. Solder is legal in the NEC, so long as it isn't the sole method of bonding, but there must be a better way.
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Jul 18, 2010 12:04
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Hillridge posted:What is the proper way to combine ground wires outdoors? I have a few #6 (bare, 7 strand) grounds that need to be joined before they make it back to a junction box. On the one I did so far, I twisted them together to make them secure, then soldered them for an extra measure. Solder is legal in the NEC, so long as it isn't the sole method of bonding, but there must be a better way. Split bolts, terminal bar, mechanical/compression lugs, exothermic welding. The neatest way would probably be to get a piece of copper bar, drill holes in it, crimp lugs onto your wires, then bolt the lugs to the bar. I don't think soldering is valid for grounds because the high fault current they are supposed to be shunting can melt the solder, then you have an open ground and the fault has to go somewhere dangerous. Of course, if you wanted to buy a copper thermite well and use that, it'd be pretty awesome. I love cadwelds.
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Jul 18, 2010 16:45
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picture time found a circuit diagram after taking a few pieces off of the front.  Click here for the full 2048x1536 image. Overall view  Click here for the full 2048x1536 image. where the plug wires come in from the back. the red and black go to the on/off switch.  Click here for the full 2048x1536 image. from the switch the red and black go to bass screws that I highlighted pink.  Click here for the full 2048x1536 image. other components  Click here for the full 2048x1536 image.  Click here for the full 2048x1536 image.
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Jul 18, 2010 18:52
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Of course, if you wanted to buy a copper thermite well and use that, it'd be pretty awesome. I love cadwelds.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah3c2ntULHI 
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Jul 18, 2010 19:22
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Farside posted:picture time  That's not 115 OR 230V, it's 115 AND 208/230V. As in, sorry, you need a 230V 3W outlet. The 115V refers to the voltage between each of the 230V phases and neutral, not an option for power like you might see on a table saw or something. Long story short: there's no way to run this from a 115V 20A outlet. You'll need to run a new circuit.
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Jul 18, 2010 19:28
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As  as that is, I don't think it's a good idea to try it out on my roof.Could I use these, and bolt them together and then to one of my support rails?  My setup looks like this: code:
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Jul 18, 2010 20:17
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grover posted:Oh Thats what I thought when I found the circuit diagram. But my mother in law insisted that the guy she bought it from said you could switch it. So I thought maybe I was reading it wrong. Oh well. Thats what they get for not doing any research. Thanks for the help.
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Jul 18, 2010 21:07
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One more question: I installed a new 20A circuit for the washer and dryer in my basement as per code now requires. However, I put in a GFCI there since that receptacle is still in the basement, which code also requires now. The problem is that the washing machine likes to occasionally trip the GFCI, but only when the motor starts up. I'm thinking it's probably because of its starter capacitor. What should I do? Did I just get an overly sensitive GFCI?
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Jul 19, 2010 04:27
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kid sinister posted:One more question: I installed a new 20A circuit for the washer and dryer in my basement as per code now requires. However, I put in a GFCI there since that receptacle is still in the basement, which code also requires now. The problem is that the washing machine likes to occasionally trip the GFCI, but only when the motor starts up. I'm thinking it's probably because of its starter capacitor. What should I do? Did I just get an overly sensitive GFCI? It could be an overly sensitive GFCI, but I think it's more likely that the washing machine is the problem. How repeatable is it? Would running an extension cord to a kitchen or bathroom GFCI help you to troubleshoot, or is it more a once-every-few-months thing?
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Jul 19, 2010 10:50
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grover posted:It could be an overly sensitive GFCI, but I think it's more likely that the washing machine is the problem. How repeatable is it? Would running an extension cord to a kitchen or bathroom GFCI help you to troubleshoot, or is it more a once-every-few-months thing? It happens once or twice every laundry day. I can't seem to predict when it will happen, but it seems to happen only when the drum spins or the pump... pumps, whether or not the dryer is on and tumbling (it's a gas dryer, so it's on only 120V) on that same GFCI. Sometimes it doesn't happen during a cycle, sometimes it happens twice on a cycle. I just finished laundry, so right now I'm running an empty load in the washer through an extension cord to another GFCI in the basement on a different circuit. We'll see what happens.
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Jul 20, 2010 01:24
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bought a new house about a month ago, and during the inspection found that only 2 outlets in the house are grounded. It also had an old fuse box, but we negotiated and had them put in a breaker box and move the service entrance to a better spot. Anyway, I'd like to at least ground the outlets downstairs, since I'm using it as an office and have a bunch of electronics and such. I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but I'm asking anyway: is there an easy way to ground the outlets without basically rewiring everything down here? I'm thinking if there's no quick way to do it, I could probably run a ground line from the outlets and join them with the ground for the outlets that are grounded at a junction box somewhere. Is that my best option?
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Jul 20, 2010 19:46
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stimpy posted:bought a new house about a month ago, and during the inspection found that only 2 outlets in the house are grounded. It also had an old fuse box, but we negotiated and had them put in a breaker box and move the service entrance to a better spot. Anyway, I'd like to at least ground the outlets downstairs, since I'm using it as an office and have a bunch of electronics and such. I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but I'm asking anyway: is there an easy way to ground the outlets without basically rewiring everything down here? I'm thinking if there's no quick way to do it, I could probably run a ground line from the outlets and join them with the ground for the outlets that are grounded at a junction box somewhere. Is that my best option? Assuming the inspector doesn't hold their rear end to the fire, though, and you're stuck with what you got, the easiest way is to install a GFCI outlet, which will protect the entire downstream string, too. The ground prong won't actually be grounded, which has some consequences for PCs and such, but it will be SAFE with the respect that the GFCI outlet will protect you from a fatal shock, should an appliance have a fault, and fault a normally grounded surface becomes energized. This is pretty cheap and pretty easy. You need to label all the outlets "GFCI Protected" and "ungrounded", but you can replace them all with modern NEMA-15 3-prong outlets.
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Jul 20, 2010 20:14
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grover posted:Assuming the inspector doesn't hold their rear end to the fire, though, and you're stuck with what you got, the easiest way is to install a GFCI outlet, which will protect the entire downstream string, too. This is fairly common. When my wife bought our house (before we were married), they installed a new panel and GFCI w/ grounding in the bathroom, but the entire rest of the house is still ungrounded two-prongs minus the handful of things I've upgraded in the last couple years.
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Jul 20, 2010 20:42
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grover posted:Good news for you: once they upgrade the panel, they're forced legally to upgrade the WHOLE rest of the house to the latest codes. IE, they've got to upgrade all the outlets to AFCI grounded outlets, put two 20A GFCI strings in the kitchen, etc. You win big! yeah, they already upgraded the box but almost all of the outlets are ungrounded. I was told that installing a GFCI outlet was a bad idea with a surge protector though because the surge protector uses the ground to reroute a surge, is that bullshit? I guess what would happen in event of a surge with a GFCI outlet would be that it just trips and shuts the outlet off, right? The grounded outlets aren't far from the one I have my PC and such set up on, so I'm thinking of running a ground wire from the outlets for my PC and other electronics and joining with the grounded outlet's grounds and installing GFCI's upstairs in the other spots. e: just for clarity, all the outlets are the three prong outlets, they just don't have a ground wire attached because some of the wiring is older.
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Jul 20, 2010 22:17
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stimpy posted:yeah, they already upgraded the box but almost all of the outlets are ungrounded. I was told that installing a GFCI outlet was a bad idea with a surge protector though because the surge protector uses the ground to reroute a surge, is that bullshit? I guess what would happen in event of a surge with a GFCI outlet would be that it just trips and shuts the outlet off, right? Best thing you can do is put a whole-house surge supressor on your main electrical panel- will be more effective than all the surge-suppressing power strips you can plug in. If you can get a ground wire from another outlet, do that. If you can run all new romex to the ungrounded outlets, that's even better still.
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Jul 20, 2010 22:25
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grover posted:Best thing you can do is put a whole-house surge supressor on your main electrical panel- will be more effective than all the surge-suppressing power strips you can plug in. Whole-house surge suppressors assume that all surges will come through the mains, which isn't always true. Then again, if lightning hits your house and fries one circuit, you'll probably have bigger problems than fried computers. Some of those don't protect from surges through the phone or cable lines either.
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Jul 21, 2010 03:30
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kid sinister posted:Whole-house surge suppressors assume that all surges will come through the mains, which isn't always true. Then again, if lightning hits your house and fries one circuit, you'll probably have bigger problems than fried computers. No surge protector in existence is going to help you if your house is struck by lightning. A whole house protector works very well if the many miles of powerline that feed you are struck, though. As for internal transients... that's more of an industrial thing with very large inductive loads on an isolated circuit and few resistive loads on that circuit to dissipate them; it's extremely rare to see those sorts of transients on receptacle circuits in homes.
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Jul 21, 2010 03:37
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Warning: I know nothing about electrical work or wiring and my only previous attempt involved me replacing a dryer cord and then ending up fetal on the floor for a few minutes after touching the metal backplate to help me stand up. We just moved into a very, very old mansion that was converted to apartments a few decades ago. Since I often move into old places, I make a habit of testing each outlet just to check them because I run a few computers and an xbox etc and it helps to make sure everything is wired up right. In this new place, two separate outlets give me a Hot / Neutral reverse warning. All the others check out. They're not on the same wall, but are somewhat in the same area, so I'm not sure if they're on the same circuit or what. Anyway...is this something to be concerned about? edit: addendum! there is a refrigerator hooked up to one of these fussy outlets, and it puts out heat instead of cold. Could the bad wiring cause that? Chillmatic fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Jul 21, 2010 |
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Jul 21, 2010 20:29
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AquaVita posted:
Yes, be concerned. If it's a 3-prong outlet, then it's possible that the metal shell of many things can be energized. Fixing it is as simple as turning off the circuit, removing the receptacle, and switching what side the black and white wires are screwed to. If it's 2-prong, not so much issue, unless you're doing something wonky like using converters, but still such a simple, easy fix that it's worth your time to do it. And your fridge is busted.
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Jul 22, 2010 00:47
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grover posted:Virtually all household surges are going to come from the utility lines. Tell that to my parents. Lightning hit a tree next to their house and it came through the phone line frying everything on the network from the DSL modem down to the NICs in our computers.
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Jul 22, 2010 05:22
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kid sinister posted:Tell that to my parents. Lightning hit a tree next to their house and it came through the phone line frying everything on the network from the DSL modem down to the NICs in our computers. A surge suppressor isn't going to protect you from a direct lightning strike like that anyhow. It most likely would not have helped your parents. grover fucked around with this message at 11:00 on Jul 22, 2010 |
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Jul 22, 2010 10:57
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I just got done showing the local electrical inspector my wiring for the solar panels, and as usual, it was someone else's work that they had complaints about. My existing wire to my water pipe is a #6 or #8 and needs to be a #4 to meet code. I have some #4 THHN, but it's not rated for outdoor use. Can I use it anyway since it is for a grounding electrode?
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Jul 22, 2010 19:02
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Yes, be concerned. If it's a 3-prong outlet, then it's possible that the metal shell of many things can be energized. Fixing it is as simple as turning off the circuit, removing the receptacle, and switching what side the black and white wires are screwed to. It is a three prong outlet. So you don't think it's the entire circuit that's wired wrong? I guess the only way to tell is check the receptacles themselves and ensure the wiring is correct, right? Also, I would mostly prefer not to kill myself, so once I shut off that circuit at the box, I'm ok to touch things right? And yeah the fridge is busted. 
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Jul 22, 2010 19:45
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AquaVita posted:It is a three prong outlet. So you don't think it's the entire circuit that's wired wrong? I guess the only way to tell is check the receptacles themselves and ensure the wiring is correct, right? Also, I would mostly prefer not to kill myself, so once I shut off that circuit at the box, I'm ok to touch things right? It's really easy to swap the wires when wiring up an outlet. Just shut off the breaker and plug in the tester you obviously have no make sure you killed the right circuit. You could turn off the main if you felt like it, but yea, touch the wires at the outlet all you want. Outlets are cheap. You might put a new one in while you're at it just for cosmetics. I swapped every outlet and switch in my house in an afternoon. eddiewalker fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Jul 22, 2010 |
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Jul 22, 2010 19:53
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grover posted:So, you shouldn't use a surge suppressor on your power lines because a surge might happen on the phone line? I'm not quite sure I'm following your logic here. Also, when I said utility lines, I meant it to be inclusive of the phone and cable lines, which you should also put whole house surge protectors on vice spot protection. I've taken a surge through the cable once myself; thankfully, only lost the cable modem. I missed that utility lines bit, but you're right. I agree, you need to protect more than just your power lines. Basically, any copper coming into your home is enough to fry stuff, even little 24# phone lines. eddiewalker posted:I swapped every outlet and switch in my house in an afternoon. Your place must have been wired up correctly with lots of slack originally. I just did the same thing, and it took me a month off and on. My place had around 3" of slack inside each box, after I pulled the rubber tape off the twisted-and-soldered joints. Then again, I was legally retrofitting for 3 prong receptacles. Luckily it was wired with #12 and #14 with ground in all but 2 runs, so I salvaged the ground wire in half the house was attached on the outside of the steel boxes, and the other half it wasn't even hooked up, just cut off. Luckily that ground was zigzagged inside its sheath, so I was able to pull out an inch or so to carefully pigtail onto it. THEN when I was finished I discovered code 406.11, so I had to go back and replace all those new 3 prongs outlets with tamper-resistant ones! That only took 2 days though.
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Jul 22, 2010 20:44
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Here is a problem that I know I can't fix myself, but it's totally weird so I thought it might be interesting to think about, and maybe some of you have ideas. Last Saturday, three outlets in my kitchen suddenly stopped working. The only things plugged in were a fan and the microwave. Both had been plugged in for a while and working fine, and they'd been previously plugged in in the same configuration (even with more things running) without any troubles. We tried resetting the circuit breakers, both for individual rooms and the whole apartment. We tried pressing the reset/test buttons on the various outlets. Nothing. The remaining outlets in my kitchen continued to work as normal. The next day, a contractor came over and replaced the outlets. Current was still running to the old ones, but they just weren't working anymore. The new outlets worked for the rest of Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. This morning I woke up to find the microwave's clock blank. The same three outlets are broken again. tried throwing circuit breakers, pressing reset/test, etc. No change. It has been kind of hot, and the building is old, but the wiring has been redone recently and no other outlets have had problems. The contractor's coming back tomorrow. Any thoughts?
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Jul 22, 2010 21:11
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At my parents' house a few weeks ago, they noticed the strong odor characteristic of a malfunctioning electric motor and traced it to a ceiling fan -- shut the fan off, the smell goes away. They had an electrician replace the fan, slightly different model I believe. Today they said the new fan started making the same smell. Obviously the electrician has to come back but for my curiosity, is there a good guess as to what is happening? I don't really understand how electricity works in a practical sense but it seemed odd to me that the wiring or current or whatever is somehow messed up only to this one device. Every bit of wire in the house was (supposedly) replaced less than five years ago after a fire, and there have been no other electrical problems in the house. Also what exactly is it that you smell when an electric device fails like that?
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Jul 22, 2010 21:23
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Eggplant Wizard posted:Here is a problem that I know I can't fix myself, but it's totally weird so I thought it might be interesting to think about, and maybe some of you have ideas. A Violence Gang posted:Also what exactly is it that you smell when an electric device fails like that? grover fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jul 22, 2010 |
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Jul 22, 2010 22:48
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grover posted:So, either the new fan is blowing around smells left over from the old fan, or the fan was never the source at all, and was just blowing the smell around. Interesting, cause I stopped by, turned the fan on to see if I smelled it, got nothing. Then by chance my mother opens a closet in the affected room and the smell hits us. Find a little like 8" fluorescent reading light powered by 8 AA batteries, open the battery compartment and it reeks. None of the batteries appeared corroded or damaged and no one remembers the last time the light was used but that appears to have been the source. They're still sure the old fan actually did have a bad motor because it would slow down and stop of its own accord but it looks like this smell was just a coincidence. Thanks!
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Jul 22, 2010 23:06
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grover posted:It's the smell of burnt insulation. It's a smell; it won't go away when you turn it off, it will linger a long time. So, either the new fan is blowing around smells left over from the old fan, or the fan was never the source at all, and was just blowing the smell around. That burning electronics smell is partially ozone. It's the result of electricity jumping gaps through the air, turning 3 x O2 into 2 x O3. It happens with shorts immediately after the short first burns through its conductor until the gap gets too big for the electricity to arc across. It's same the reason why thunderstorms stink. Hell, you can smell it around bumper cars where they have their pickup springs dragging across the electrified ceiling. Question time! If I use steel boxes or even FMC to contain low voltage wiring, do I need to ground them? kid sinister fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Jul 23, 2010 |
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Jul 23, 2010 22:43
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kid sinister posted:That burning electronics smell is actually ozone. It's the result of electricity jumping gaps through the air, turning 3 x O2 into 2 x O3. It happens with shorts immediately after the short first burns through its conductor until the gap gets too big for the electricity to arc across. It's same the reason why thunderstorms stink. Hell, you can smell it around bumper cars where they have their pickup springs dragging across the electrified ceiling. And, yes, you do need should ground steel boxes and FMC; as well as protecting against an accidental fault from another nearby electric circuit, it prevents charges from building up and reduces the risk of a lightning strike. grover fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Jul 23, 2010 |
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Jul 23, 2010 22:48
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Point taken, but I still smell some ozone in it. There's usually a bit of burnt dust too. Nevermind, it looks like I found some PVC boxes that are just what I need... I got one more. Surge suppressing receptacles: are they actually worth a drat, or just a waste of money?
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Jul 24, 2010 00:35
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kid sinister posted:Point taken, but I still smell some ozone in it. There's usually a bit of burnt dust too. They're expensive, but if you only need one or two, they work great. Caveat: they work precisely once, regardless of what the box says. Anything causing them to surge-trip, and the pathetic thingy inside is burned out.
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Jul 24, 2010 00:38
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:They're expensive, but if you only need one or two, they work great. Caveat: they work precisely once, regardless of what the box says. Anything causing them to surge-trip, and the pathetic thingy inside is burned out. I bought this one because I trust SquareD more than a company I've never heard of, but there are others: http://www.amazon.com/SOURCE-SQUARE-SDSA1175-SECONDARY-ARRESTOR/dp/B000H5Y8EM  It can withstand a bunch of low-power surges, or a single really bad one. Replace it when the light goes out. As far as DIY goes, it's easy to install. See the 3 wires? One black wire on each phase, and the white goes to neutral/ground (one and the same in the residential panels this unit is designed for.) To do it properly, use a dedicated double-yoke breaker, and mount it to the outside your panel using the lock nut on the back. Wires should be trimmed to be as short as possible. Depending on the UL listing of the breakers in your panel, you may be able to piggyback off another 2-pole breaker, like your dryer or range breaker. It's a Type-1 SPD and can legally be installed on the supply side of your main breaker*, so breaker size doesn't really matter**; I'd put it on 15A 2-pole breaker if you buy a new breaker, but I piggy-backed it off the 30A dryer breaker in my house. * some caveats apply regarding available fault current and a few other things. Also, you're an idiot if you put it on the supply side of your main breaker when it would work just as well (and be a few orders of magnitude safer to install) on a small branch circuit breaker. ** some caveats apply regarding available fault current and common sense, here, too! grover fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Jul 24, 2010 |
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Jul 24, 2010 00:57
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