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Gadamer posted:Decent schools have a <1% attrition rate. How can you gently caress that up? You gently caress it up by not getting a job and getting a ton of student debt. Serious response: Right, and everyone else at your same school will take this poo poo seriously. This is a lesson I learned the hard way. Everyone at law school is as smart as you are and the only thing that distinguishes you from them is effort.
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Jul 23, 2010 16:23
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"I did all the reading, my in class comments were spot on, and I aced the practice tests, but somehow I got a C on the final, will you hire me?"
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Jul 23, 2010 16:24
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Gadamer posted:Serious response: right, but I had a 4.0 in my major and was above a 3.5 for my last 5 semesters. I started college when I was 16, was obviously immature about it, but I still don't think I could find any care for Speech 101, where I got an A on every assignment but was given a C because the professor didn't think I was serious enough about the class. Serious Response: Your 3.1 GPA is all the schools look at, nobody cares about your major GPA, nobody cares about upward trends in the grades for your last 5 semesters. Sorry to burst your bubble. Don't go to law school with your numbers unless you get a full ride somewhere good. Are you URM?
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Jul 23, 2010 16:26
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Hey guys you need to chill some guy I interned with at the local county PD office a few years ago who was going to [redacted] - which is actually only provisionally accredited - said that As are for academia, Bs are for Judges and Cs are for us $100k+ attorneys. True story. So back off.
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Jul 23, 2010 16:36
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Neon Belly fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Aug 1, 2016 |
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Jul 23, 2010 16:46
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I don't know why you insist on arguing with people who have either been around this process for years or have just gone through it and thus know what it's like now. Go root around lawschoolnumbers.com, and you'll see how you're likely going to be deciding between a #20-30 for full price or a low T1 with some money. You're not getting into Columbia barring secretly being black and not telling us. No one cares about 'upward grade trends'.
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Jul 23, 2010 16:58
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Gadamer posted:(Although, Columbia Law disagrees with your theory on upward trending GPAs, or at least their admission website does) It's true that an upward trending 3.1 is worth more than a regular 3.1. It's just not worth as much as a regular 3.2. Also, admissions websites say a lot of things, just like every school including Columbia does when you ask them about student employment numbers.
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Jul 23, 2010 16:58
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Neon Belly fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Aug 1, 2016 |
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Jul 23, 2010 17:01
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Don't deny your snowflake statusquote:Are outside of T14 not considered T1? Not by people in the T14. Is that a "poo poo response"?
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Jul 23, 2010 17:06
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Neon Belly fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Aug 1, 2016 |
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Jul 23, 2010 17:07
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Here check this out, this should help you http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3301274
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Jul 23, 2010 17:10
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T12 or gtfo.
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Jul 23, 2010 17:16
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Gadamer posted:Right, this was a response to you saying that my low GPA means I have little motivation and I will gently caress up law school if I go. All this is spoken of from someone who understands where you're coming from. Fact of the matter is, law school is absolute horse poo poo and you have to be willing to eat, digest and live it enough to get amazing grades despite knowing what they're teaching you means gently caress all.
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Jul 23, 2010 17:17
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CmdrSmirnoff posted:edit: drat now I realized how much practicing Pet Island law would own Quoting myself from page 80 because I just realized one of my interviews is with the Ministry that does animal cruelty prosecutions 
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Jul 23, 2010 17:29
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Neon Belly fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Aug 1, 2016 |
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Jul 23, 2010 17:33
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Gadamer posted:Thanks. I'm going to go ahead with the masters and from there apply to PhD programs, law schools, and jobs, and see which road seems best. Yay! You're still a masochist.
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Jul 23, 2010 17:35
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Gadamer posted:Thanks. I'm going to go ahead with the masters and from there apply to PhD programs and jobs, and see which road seems best. I went ahead and fixed that for you, now we can quote you in our testimonials of saved souls in the OP.
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Jul 23, 2010 17:39
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Current law students/lawyers are like Adam Sandler in Billy Madison, and prospective students are like that fat kid whose cheeks he grabs and jiggles and to whom he whispers, bug-eyed, "Don't you say that! Don't you ever say that! Stay here! Stay as long as you can! For the love of God, cherish it! You have to cherish it!" Come to think of it, Billy Madison teaches a lot of good life lessons. edit: such as "peeing your pants is cool" Dr. Mantis Toboggan fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Jul 23, 2010 |
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Jul 23, 2010 17:55
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BigHead posted:Why. God, why? I planned on law school BEFORE grad school, believe it or not. Fortunately, I had always wanted a PhD as something of a personal challenge. I also knew that my field needed a PhD for patent jobs, so it made sense. Science then law is the standard path for entry, so I'm not sure what you mean by "backdoor into patent law." Are you not familiar with the field? I got a great scholarship at a top school, so no complaints. I suspect you're analyzing this purely from a dollars and cents perspective. Obviously there are faster, easier means of earning money, but not everyone wants to be an engineer/physician's assistant/pharmacist/etc. Gadamer posted:I was given a full ride to the masters program at my old school for economics. I would like to go to law school, but my GPA isn't all that great (I just happened to have a 4.0 in my econ courses). When applying, did they care about your undergraduate grades, or did they focus more on your graduate? I can do the econ masters in under a year, so if that could take me from a T2/low T1 to a possible T14, it seems absolutely worth it. Unfortunately they don't really care about graduate GPA. My cycle went exactly as lawschoolnumbers would suggest. You still need either LSAT or GPA above a school's median to get in, unless you're an URM or legacy. The only benefit would be if you were competing against someone with near identical uGPA/LSAT for a spot. Leon Kowalski fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Jul 23, 2010 |
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Jul 23, 2010 17:59
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can we please stop using the term T14? it perpetuates the myth that MVPDCNG are real schools and not hobo training academies T6 or bust, tia
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Jul 23, 2010 18:50
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So, how do you get into legal academia in the US?
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Jul 23, 2010 18:59
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CaptainScraps posted:Serious response: Right, and everyone else at your same school will take this poo poo seriously. This is a lesson I learned the hard way.
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Jul 23, 2010 19:02
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lipstick thespian posted:So, how do you get into legal academia in the US? The most common route is top grades from a top school, federal clerkship in the Circuit Courts or SCOTUS, then a few years as an associate at Biglaw, then a transition into teaching.
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Jul 23, 2010 19:10
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Elotana posted:I don't think this is strictly true. I was able to skate by more or less exactly on the median for my first five semesters and unless it was an on-call class I hardly ever cracked open a book/outline more than 48 hours before a final. Not everybody prioritizes what they should prioritize during 1L year. Many students end up distracted and spend way too much time working on the wrong things. Maybe you unwittingly concentrated well on what mattered most so your procrastination didn't hurt you as much as it would have hurt others.
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Jul 23, 2010 19:15
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I would not say I'm the studious type and I've managed to score honors both 1l and 2l years my work habits roughly mirror elotona's except I'd usually do the reading but not outline it or brief it or anything really, since law school is all about the final it's actually relatively easy to slack off and cram the week before finals
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Jul 23, 2010 19:31
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lipstick thespian posted:So, how do you get into legal academia in the US? Read Mere Brilliance by James Gordley.
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Jul 23, 2010 20:23
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Gadamer posted:Thanks. I'm going to go ahead with the masters and from there apply to PhD programs, law schools, and jobs, and see which road seems best. Be sure to rack up lots of student law debt in the process. That makes everything easier.
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Jul 23, 2010 21:28
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CmdrSmirnoff posted:3 interviews out of 12 apps, which is a crazy good ratio considering a couple friends got 0/80some. 7/53. Mostly litigation firms, one corporate/real estate. All mid-sized. Nothing from the big boys. I missed out on one interview because my line was busy talking to another firm. They called twice but not a third time. 
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Jul 23, 2010 22:40
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CaptainScraps posted:Your GPA indicates to me that you're going to gently caress up law school. Law school success isn't about how smart you are; it's about EFFORT. It's about persistence, about studying until your eyes burn and really caring about this poo poo. That's what defense practice is like; putting in a whole lot of loving effort. Nah. I was successful enough in law school, and put in almost zero effort. CaptainScraps posted:Everyone at law school is as smart as you are and the only thing that distinguishes you from them is effort. Ahahaha no. There are complete morons at law school who no matter how much effort they put in, will not get it.
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Jul 23, 2010 22:49
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Gadamer posted:(Although, Columbia Law disagrees with your theory on upward trending GPAs, or at least their admission website does) Please don't come to Columbia Law School. If you come off as such an entitled, know-it-all rear end in a top hat online, I shudder to think of what you're like in person. billion dollar bitch fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jul 23, 2010 |
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Jul 23, 2010 23:05
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Soothing Vapors posted:can we please stop using the term T14? it perpetuates the myth that MVPDCNG are real schools and not hobo training academies YLS or nada. Maybe Harvard if you get a lot of money and daddy is managing partner at Jones Day.
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Jul 23, 2010 23:33
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SWATJester posted:Nah. I was successful enough in law school, and put in almost zero effort. This conversation could go in circles. Can we just agree that some people just work "smart" or do enough of the right kind of work where they can do decently-to-well in law school without putting in the enormous amounts of tedious work that others do? Some people had to work harder than they've ever had to before to end up with a B. Other people were able to sleepwalk through most of the semester and then cram for a week or less and do well or at least get curve. If you're in the latter category, then congratulations! You're a genius. Many other people are going to need to crunch. It's not a one size fits all kind of thing, although I do think that law students are encouraged to waste a lot of time doing needless busywork that distracts from what they really should be working on. For me, my grades got better once I stopped doing the kind of studying everyone told me to do and went back to what had made sense for me in the past, which meant staying the hell away from student study groups and spending more time reconfiguring old materials as opposed to reinventing the wheel on my own. Too bad I only got brave enough to do that after my 1L year.
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Jul 23, 2010 23:42
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Gadamer posted:So what does that mean in the grand scheme of stacking paper? Will people who hire poo poo on you if you go to 15th, or can these still be considered good choices? Can I make snowflakes out of these papers? How do the people who go to private T14 feel about those who go to public? First on the upward GPA thing: I raised my cum over a full point and it didn't mean gently caress all. Second on the private vs. public thing: This is an absurd question. If you get into one of the big three private schools, awesome. If you get into, I'll go ahead and say Columbia on down (and I think the Columbia goons will back me on this), and Berkeley, and want to practice on the west coast, I'll give you one guess as to what school puts you in a better position. The point is that it's all relative to where you are and what your grades are. No law firm in DC is going to say, all else being equal, "oh wow you went to Georgetown, that's a private school, we gotta take this kid over the Virginia kid!" sigmachiev fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Jul 24, 2010 |
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Jul 23, 2010 23:56
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I don't know or care about which of the t14 are private or public, their prestige is in their ranking.
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Jul 24, 2010 00:15
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billion dollar bitch posted:Please don't come to Columbia Law School. If you come off as such an entitled, know-it-all rear end in a top hat online, I shudder to think of what you're like in person.  look who's talkingokay back to studying. Anyone got advice on learning trusts, real property, personal property, federal jurisdiction, sales, secured transactions, in three days for the essay section of the bar? I got the MBE down pat, I'm a hulk hogan who just tears multiple choice questions to bits and eats the shredded paper while inferior people watch in awe. Also got essay format and bullshitting in line, so I'm not too terrified, but in hindsight I really think I should have given myself a full fortnight to study. EDIT: Actually, that's only two subjects a day so not a problem really. I better not fail this colossal waste of time Lykourgos fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Jul 24, 2010 |
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Jul 24, 2010 00:23
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Some of the beginning of this thread is pretty out of date. Most notably the charts in this post are a couple years old. For example, 73% of Chicago grads got jobs at NLJ250 firms three years ago (the year of the data in that post), but last year they only placed 53% in NLJ250 firms. I wouldn't have expected such a rosy picture out of this thread!
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Jul 24, 2010 00:33
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I've been having the opposite problem with bar prep, I think I have the essays down pat but my MBE practice scores have stubbornly resisted rising above borderline. I was told by a friend that the BarBri MBE practice books are tougher, but that might just have been an attempt at reassurance.
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Jul 24, 2010 00:38
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Elotana posted:I've been having the opposite problem with bar prep, I think I have the essays down pat but my MBE practice scores have stubbornly resisted rising above borderline. I was told by a friend that the BarBri MBE practice books are tougher, but that might just have been an attempt at reassurance. Where are your MBE scores? Taking them blind, no matter what subject, I always seemed to land on the recommended position in the book. After reading the conviser outline I was able to boost it so I'm always at least a tad above the recommended, but like you I haven't been able to improve past a certain point. I figure this means we're ready? Before reading the outline I passed the MBE half-day exam, landing again on the recommended score. As for the essays, I was rubbish at those until I actually started writing them out; how did you get the rules and everything down pat? Or are you just making up the rules and that gets you the 3/4 points on the essay because you have the format and intuition right? I think the bulk of my studying is going to be practice essays, and reading those last 6 subjects in the convisor outline. I might take the full-day practice MBE, but do we have anyone here who took the Barbri test scores, ranked at the average/recommended level (I assume it's the recommended level, because the text says to take the half-day/full-day test only if you're below it), and did well on the actual MBE? EDIT: As to that last point, I mean: can anyone verify that the MBE you took during the actual bar was much easier than the practice MBE you took that is contained in the Barbri book Lykourgos fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Jul 24, 2010 |
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Jul 24, 2010 00:44
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Elotana posted:I've been having the opposite problem with bar prep, I think I have the essays down pat but my MBE practice scores have stubbornly resisted rising above borderline. I was told by a friend that the BarBri MBE practice books are tougher, but that might just have been an attempt at reassurance. Much like the LSAT, improving the MBE score is all about the practice tests. Do lots of them. Then do more. ^^^^^I've taken a few bars, it's been fairly similar to the practice tests each time.
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Jul 24, 2010 00:50
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Abugadu posted:^^^^^I've taken a few bars, it's been fairly similar to the practice tests each time. poo poo, then why is Barbri saying that you only need 50-60% right? Isn't that a failing score, or at least a high risk one if you don't shine on the essays?
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Jul 24, 2010 00:54
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