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Method Loser
Oct 10, 2001

ChubbyEmoBabe posted:

Heed what Hobologist is saying. There is a world of difference to the point of being mutually exclusive between "trading" and "investing".

"Investors" generally don't/won't sell until a long term objective is reached and don't watch day to day or even month to month performance.

"Traders" only have a target to fulfill and sell when they reach it if it's today or 10 years from now.

Short term high volatility plays are for "day traders", the guys that "feast or famine" for the most part.

Then I need to research more and decide which I want to spend most of my efforts learning about on. Thanks for the advice.

EDIT:

ChubbyEmoBabe posted:

Jesus, I was born into the wrong family :smith:

So was I, I was adopted as a baby

Method Loser fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Jul 23, 2010

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whalesneedlove
Sep 27, 2003

An analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist.
I think the best thing to do is for everyone to pat him on the back and then move on. He will most likely experience the same "education" that most traders/investors go through. Look forward to this Method Loser...

Step 1: Think you know everything

Step 2: Lose

Step 3: Make excuses and go back to step 1


The goal is to really break the cycle, develop a system/methodolgy, and gain the discipline of a monk.

Plastic Jesus
Aug 26, 2006

I'm cranky most of the time.

Method Loser posted:

No, whihc is why I'm saying for not even at least 2 years will I actually do it, maybe start with monopoly money in a year, but until I feel like I DO know what you're asking, I won't even attempt it. Like I said, future goal I want to someday partake it. And only if I do well on the longer term side of things, say I get REAL lucky and make 100k in 3 years off my long/mid term investments, well, Ill set aside like 50 and day trade with that, WHEN I FEEL LIKE I KNOW WHAT I AM DOING, so if I really gently caress up, I can go back to the other that I hopefully will be good at and not lose everything.

If for some reason you're against paper trading you should take that $50k slice now and actively trade with it. Park the rest somewhere relatively safe and don't.loving.touch.it. Then after you lose 50 grand you can say "at least I didn't lose 9 times that much." You derided your dad earlier for not knowing when to sell, but think that your talent lies in remembering "oh hey, that looks like a buy." I'm really not trying to be a dick but markets work differently from how you think they do.

I don't care how smart you think you are or actually are, trading with your inheritance with no experience other than thinking about stocks is pretty loving stupid.

Method Loser
Oct 10, 2001

whalesneedlove posted:

I think the best thing to do is for everyone to pat him on the back and then move on. He will most likely experience the same "education" that most traders/investors go through. Look forward to this Method Loser...

Step 1: Think you know everything

Step 2: Lose

Step 3: Make excuses and go back to step 1


The goal is to really break the cycle, develop a system/methodolgy, and gain the discipline of a monk.

I realize overestimating yourself is suicide, which is why I am deathly afraid of doing so. I don't plan on ever claiming I know poo poo about poo poo in markets until I am SURE I do, and I plan on taking it slow. That's why I've only picked two relatively stable stocks in 2 weeks. I'm not just thinking 'gee this would be a good idea' and executing without hours, if not days of research and talking it over with others. I plan on being a self-proclaimed newbie moron for a long time, even past the point I may not even be. But thanks for the warning, seriously, this sort of criticism, warning, and advice is why I'm here.


Plastic Jesus posted:

If for some reason you're against paper trading you should take that $50k slice now and actively trade with it. Park the rest somewhere relatively safe and don't.loving.touch.it. Then after you lose 50 grand you can say "at least I didn't lose 9 times that much." You derided your dad earlier for not knowing when to sell, but think that your talent lies in remembering "oh hey, that looks like a buy." I'm really not trying to be a dick but markets work differently from how you think they do.

I don't care how smart you think you are or actually are, trading with your inheritance with no experience other than thinking about stocks is pretty loving stupid.


I don;t plan on playing with any more than 200k total at any given time, on my own ideas, for a long time. I'm only 80 in right now, on a 73 or something investment. If I lose 200, then someone else can take over the quarter mil for me, I tried and failed. I'll go back to square one paper games and try again in a few years.
Again, I'm only 24, so I have lots of life to learn and I don't know poo poo, I am not going to invest in anything super-risky for a long time, and I'm going to be as thorough and careful as I know how to be. Which I'm sure I have a lot of learning to do on, as well.

Method Loser fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Jul 23, 2010

Waroen
Jun 23, 2006
Fuck Jesus and Fuck Shoes!!
How exactly are you going about researching these stocks? What's your methodology for deciding it's a good investment or value or not?

Hint: If it's just a gut feeling you'll probably be wrong more than not in the long run.

Method Loser
Oct 10, 2001

Waroen posted:

How exactly are you going about researching these stocks? What's your methodology for deciding it's a good investment or value or not?

Hint: If it's just a gut feeling you'll probably be wrong more than not in the long run.

History of the company, future prospects, the P/E, basic stuff, professional analysts ideas, and anything else I can come up with on whatever company, earnings reports, you know. I may not understand everything, but that's the goal, man, I want to LEARN, not necessarily win as I first start out. This is one of the first things I want to improve my skills in.

Nifty
Aug 31, 2004

Method Loser posted:

I may not understand everything, but that's the goal, man, I want to LEARN, not necessarily win as I first start out.

200k, as you previously stated is your trading amount, is not learning money. Thats a lot of loving money. I understand that you would hate to have a 150% year and only have been paper trading but 200k is way too much for an absolute beginner such as yourself, and most people here, to be playing around with.

Bigass Moth
Mar 6, 2004

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.
:boom:
he knows...

Method Loser posted:

I think I'm just lucky, some rainman, or maybe just good at this.

I was handed a stock trading account with Siebert to manage, and own, with the simple instructions of 'do better than I did' two weeks ago. The account had something like $419,000 combined, cash and portfolio. My father was big into biotech, since he is a doctor, and he knows what and when to buy, but is terrible at selling.

Anyway, he was getting about a 10% return per annum the past few years, which I can't complain about. I made my first picks and buys about 2 weeks ago, and am going to use most of the rest of the $140k or so left in cash slush to do so, since it sitting there's doing me no good. I'm eyeing more oil companies since they are getting hammered because of that thing in the Gulf. Anyway, did my beginner's luck do good? :v:



I will trade your dad for my dad.

Zalakwe
Jun 4, 2007
Likes Cake, Hates Hamsters



Hi guys,

A large number of European banks are due to have their viability in the face a another global recession commented on by the EU today. 2pm UK time I think.

A lot of them are in the pennies but I expect those who pass (ie. all the British banks and none of the Spanish regional ones) are going to take a little jump so it might be worth having a look at if you day trade (you probably shouldn't).

Zalakwe fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Jul 23, 2010

Dr. Jackal
Sep 13, 2009
Hey Guyz F.

I wish most of my margin wasn't tied up holding INTC and C :(

also, you could buy ETFs if you are interested in gambling on the European Banks jumping because of the report midday today, but I would expect that has been factored into the recent stock prices. I would be more worried about individual bank stocks that may have failed the stress test. I remember there was a speculation that a German Bank was supposedly failing a capital requirement for one of the test cases.

Dr. Jackal fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Jul 23, 2010

abagofcheetos
Oct 29, 2003

by FactsAreUseless
Glad I sold a bunch of my MCD out yesterday at 71.43. Now I just wish I bought more VZ at 26.50 like I wanted to.

mik
Oct 16, 2003
oh

Method Loser posted:

My father wasn't like 'oh here's a half million dollars in a trading account, go buck wild with 0 idea what you're doing'

But it's very clear you don't have any idea what you're doing.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude but you can't come and assert that because you've done some "thought experiments" over the past two years that you're in any way ready to put some proper capital on the line. People a lot smarter than you, who have a lot more capital and experience struggle to make money, what on earth makes you think you will do anything but ultimately lose your father's money?

quote:

History of the company, future prospects, the P/E, basic stuff, professional analysts ideas, and anything else I can come up with on whatever company, earnings reports, you know. I may not understand everything, but that's the goal, man, I want to LEARN, not necessarily win as I first start out.

Tossing out buzzwords everyone knows isn't going to help. It's hard as hell in both investing and day trading to turn a profit by being anything but lucky. Don't fall into the trap you're laying for yourself by saying "Hey I would have bought this and sold this here and made a fortune!!" it doesn't work that way.

Do your father (who is apparently the dumber one here entrusting someone with no experience or knowledge with all that capital) a favour and leave his money alone until you've successfully developed some strategies beyond basic thought experiments with some simulation tools.

It's no skin off my back if you lose, or anyone else's here, but the fact that we're all basically saying the same thing should mean something to you. I trade with a lot more capital than $500K so I'm in no way jealous, so take this as an unbiased suggestion to take it slow, lest you be kicked out of your family.

St00ert
Nov 4, 2008
My thoughts if inheriting 420K:invest in a large cap or three (Walmart, IBM, MMM, KO), patiently waiting to enter at the current S&P low (~1000 points)
Collect the stable dividend money, and have your piss party with Ford stock entirely from those dividend checks.
News of the next "Euro Debt crisis" or Ben Bernanke clearing his throat will poo poo all over your $5,000 win with Ford in minutes.

Please take no offense, as we're all just giving you a heads up so that this situation of privilege you've got going isn't ruined by market n00bery

Jack
Jan 19, 2001
This cloud computing crap is a bubble if I ever saw one.

Hobologist
May 4, 2007

We'll have one entire section labelled "for degenerates"

Method Loser posted:

History of the company, future prospects, the P/E, basic stuff, professional analysts ideas, and anything else I can come up with on whatever company, earnings reports, you know.

All perfectly good things to look at, but that doesn't tell us about your method or approach. Are you more about valuation or projecting the future? Are you into growth or value? How do you turn all those things into a number?

Baddog
May 12, 2001

Jack posted:

This cloud computing crap is a bubble if I ever saw one.

I dunno, its pretty slick. The overhead of maintaining all your own servers is terrible. Now you can just tell all your employees to bring their own laptops, maybe you'll provide monitors at work if they are lucky. No hardware overhead at all.

Waroen
Jun 23, 2006
Fuck Jesus and Fuck Shoes!!

Jack posted:

This cloud computing crap is a bubble if I ever saw one.

It's a bubble until a large corporation decides to switch thus making it "okay" for others to switch. The entire industry pretty much depends on whether they can get huge corporate customers or whether they'll be stuck with small businesses as customers.

Jack
Jan 19, 2001
The overhead is instead just passed through to the cloud computing companies who instead have to maintain the servers. I didn't mean cloud computing as an idea itself is crap, but rather the stock prices of companies like SFSF, N, and CRM are quite rich from a revenue to market cap to total cloud computing market size perspective.

quote:

It's a bubble until a large corporation decides to switch thus making it "okay" for others to switch. The entire industry pretty much depends on whether they can get huge corporate customers or whether they'll be stuck with small businesses as customers.

The problem isn't so much the large corporations deciding to switch, but to switch to the start up names like CRM, when they can go with the larger and more established megacap names like MSFT, ORCL so on and so forth that they probably already have business relationships with.

I mean I don't doubt the future of cloud, I just doubt some of these cloud specific companies and the wild market caps they're getting based upon hope and hype.

Also I'm not sold that large corporations will be that willing to join public clouds and that the cost of starting up their own private clouds might just make a lot of these cloud computing companies irrelevant.

Jack fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Jul 23, 2010

Cheesemaster200
Feb 11, 2004

Guard of the Citadel
This ranks up there with my top idiotic financial news headlines list:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-stocks-back-in-party-mode-on-earnings-2010-07-23?reflink=MW_news_stmp

Tasty and Delicious
Jun 2, 2009

by Y Kant Ozma Post
Market watch is horrible unless you're incapable of reading a chart and need to know what happened yesterday.

Tasty and Delicious
Jun 2, 2009

by Y Kant Ozma Post
First time we broke 1100 on the s&p in a while though, not holding my breath for it to last.

antishatter
Feb 25, 2006
jawsome with a j

Tasty and Delicious posted:

First time we broke 1100 on the s&p in a while though, not holding my breath for it to last.

Did real well papertrading SPY calls.

paint dry
Feb 8, 2005

Method Loser posted:


I'm doing something similar, except a) I only have £14,000 and b) it's my own money. If you have no clue what you're doing (like me), for the love of god do what I'm doing and invest in a managed fund of some sort. Think about long-term dividends; not some high-risk, short-term gain. Especially if it's not your own money.

lazybrain
Feb 6, 2007
Wow, method loser, I hope you don't live up to your namesake. As most successful traders would tell you, good trading is about proper discipline more than anything. As a 24-year-old who had 500K dumped in his lap, what makes you think you've built good decision-making discipline in your life?

Do you, or have you ever, had a job? Do you know what it is like to support yourself working for a wage? There's a reason why people don't lavish their children with small fortunes, regardless of personal wealth, and I fear you will henceforth experience the challenges of being artificially and prematurely wealthy. The salty responses you've gotten so far should provide only a small taste of the type of reaction you'll get for bragging that you made some quick cash on a lucky two week trade using money you didn't earn.

I would suggest you put that money to work with a good conservative income fund. A 3-5% return under management should provide a nice cushion that will ensure you are fed and sheltered while you make an honest life for yourself instead of gambling your father's earnings.

Take a good look at your first post and then tell us again that you weren't trying to be arrogant, duder.

antishock
Aug 19, 2003
I looked into ARMH 3 months ago and thought the PE was to high and its still going up. Sigh. I knew I should have trusted my gut.

Fuschia tude
Dec 26, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2019

Method Loser posted:

That's why I've only picked two relatively stable stocks in 2 weeks.
Yeah, and you put 20% of your bankroll in them. That's not how to properly hedge your bets. Even if you were completely right about the fundamentals, a lot of short-term stock movement (measured in anything less than years) is random, and news or jittery markets could completely wipe out any growth based on fundamental improvements.

Hobologist
May 4, 2007

We'll have one entire section labelled "for degenerates"

Fuschia tude posted:

Yeah, and you put 20% of your bankroll in them. That's not how to properly hedge your bets. Even if you were completely right about the fundamentals, a lot of short-term stock movement (measured in anything less than years) is random, and news or jittery markets could completely wipe out any growth based on fundamental improvements.

How much or how little you put in a specific bet has nothing to do with hedging per se; it's more of a money management technique. Most fundamental investors don't maintain a policy of hedging their bets, at least in the traditional manner of holding index puts. Of course, they do have a nice long time horizon.

Mind you, cascading margin calls from unhedged long positions are how the S & P hit 666 in March of 09. That was a hell of a birthday present for me.

multisync
Aug 3, 2003

Eyyyy!! Someone took away my stupid newbie avatar!

Midget Mafia posted:

My (extremely limited) understanding is that there are specialists whose role is to buy and sell stocks at times when there are only buyers or only sellers. How prices work in that situation is beyond me, though.

they are designated market makers/specialists - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_maker

dlink
Sep 11, 2001
dlink hub system

whalesneedlove posted:

I think the best thing to do is for everyone to pat him on the back and then move on. He will most likely experience the same "education" that most traders/investors go through. Look forward to this Method Loser...

Step 1: Think you know everything

Step 2: Lose

Step 3: Make excuses and go back to step 1


The goal is to really break the cycle, develop a system/methodolgy, and gain the discipline of a monk.

I don't get this system/methodology, or approach stuff.

Do you guys mean, setting rules/conditions for entry and exit?

Method Loser
Oct 10, 2001

lazybrain posted:

Wow, method loser, I hope you don't live up to your namesake. As most successful traders would tell you, good trading is about proper discipline more than anything. As a 24-year-old who had 500K dumped in his lap, what makes you think you've built good decision-making discipline in your life?

Do you, or have you ever, had a job? Do you know what it is like to support yourself working for a wage? There's a reason why people don't lavish their children with small fortunes, regardless of personal wealth, and I fear you will henceforth experience the challenges of being artificially and prematurely wealthy. The salty responses you've gotten so far should provide only a small taste of the type of reaction you'll get for bragging that you made some quick cash on a lucky two week trade using money you didn't earn.

I would suggest you put that money to work with a good conservative income fund. A 3-5% return under management should provide a nice cushion that will ensure you are fed and sheltered while you make an honest life for yourself instead of gambling your father's earnings.

Take a good look at your first post and then tell us again that you weren't trying to be arrogant, duder.

I'll answer this one, since this is getting to be repetatitve, but this is a good question. I moved halfway across the country for a year, lived in a lovely apartment, cut all contact with my family, and worked as a cook in fast food for 12 months because I wanted to know what it was like living like most people. So no, I'm not some ivory-tower sheltered idiot that knows nothing of the real world.

dlink
Sep 11, 2001
dlink hub system

Method Loser posted:

I'll answer this one, since this is getting to be repetatitve, but this is a good question. I moved halfway across the country for a year, lived in a lovely apartment, cut all contact with my family, and worked as a cook in fast food for 12 months because I wanted to know what it was like living like most people. So no, I'm not some ivory-tower sheltered idiot that knows nothing of the real world.

So you're like batman ?

Plastic Jesus
Aug 26, 2006

I'm cranky most of the time.

Method Loser posted:

I'll answer this one, since this is getting to be repetatitve, but this is a good question. I moved halfway across the country for a year, lived in a lovely apartment, cut all contact with my family, and worked as a cook in fast food for 12 months because I wanted to know what it was like living like most people. So no, I'm not some ivory-tower sheltered idiot that knows nothing of the real world.

I don't think that your 12 months at Most People Fantasy Camp had a meaningful impact on how you view money and responsibility.

Bigass Moth
Mar 6, 2004

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.
:boom:
he knows...

Method Loser posted:

I'll answer this one, since this is getting to be repetatitve, but this is a good question. I moved halfway across the country for a year, lived in a lovely apartment, cut all contact with my family, and worked as a cook in fast food for 12 months because I wanted to know what it was like living like most people. So no, I'm not some ivory-tower sheltered idiot that knows nothing of the real world.

It's nice that you tried to live like Joe Blow, but you always knew you could go back to the silver spoon once your adventures in fast food was over. It's not really the same as people who work poo poo jobs for their entire lives and have nothing to fall back on like you did. It's kind of like saying "hey i have a black friend, I can drop N-bombs whenever i feel like it now!!" Not really true since you aren't a part of that culture and don't understand it.

ChubbyEmoBabe
Sep 6, 2003

-=|NMN|=-

Plastic Jesus posted:

I don't think that your 12 months at Most People Fantasy Camp had a meaningful impact on how you view money and responsibility.

:drat:

Back on topic: I don't know why I can't find this: It is a very popular technology etf and it's not based off of RITEC.X. Any help?

Baddog
May 12, 2001

Method Loser posted:

I'll answer this one, since this is getting to be repetatitve, but this is a good question. I moved halfway across the country for a year, lived in a lovely apartment, cut all contact with my family, and worked as a cook in fast food for 12 months because I wanted to know what it was like living like most people. So no, I'm not some ivory-tower sheltered idiot that knows nothing of the real world.

You sound like such a child of privilege, but your dad only has 500k saved up? Or is he just giving you access to part of his savings? I mean, if that's it, you aren't really that far above "most people".

ayekappy
Aug 22, 2004

Brie Cheesin'

Baddog posted:

You sound like such a child of privilege, but your dad only has 500k saved up? Or is he just giving you access to part of his savings? I mean, if that's it, you aren't really that far above "most people".

I'm guessing his father let him roll with that to try and teach him some money management, as in it's probably like <10% of his savings.

Hobologist
May 4, 2007

We'll have one entire section labelled "for degenerates"

Method Loser posted:

I'll answer this one, since this is getting to be repetatitve, but this is a good question. I moved halfway across the country for a year, lived in a lovely apartment, cut all contact with my family, and worked as a cook in fast food for 12 months because I wanted to know what it was like living like most people. So no, I'm not some ivory-tower sheltered idiot that knows nothing of the real world.

Who cares about the real world anyway? Real things are but a hindrance to finance.

greasyhands
Oct 28, 2006

Best quality posts,
freshly delivered

Method Loser posted:

I'll answer this one, since this is getting to be repetatitve, but this is a good question. I moved halfway across the country for a year, lived in a lovely apartment, cut all contact with my family, and worked as a cook in fast food for 12 months because I wanted to know what it was like living like most people. So no, I'm not some ivory-tower sheltered idiot that knows nothing of the real world.

hooooly poo poo I bet you're like eddie murphy in Coming to America aren't you.

MrBigglesworth
Mar 26, 2005

Lover of Fuzzy Meatloaf
King Jaffe Joffer: I know you have been inconvenienced. I am prepared to compensate you. Shall we say one million American dollars?
Cleo McDowell: No way.
King Jaffe Joffer: Very well then. Two million.

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imabmf
Mar 10, 2004
instead of Queens NY, did you pick Normal, IL?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal,_Illinois

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