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oh poo poo new page Lykourgos: Isn't this similar to OJ's nonsense? He was found not-guilty of murder but still lost the civil trial. Neon Belly fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Jul 30, 2010 |
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Jul 30, 2010 17:46
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I thought it was Bolton University; I'd say the dentistry school, but apparently that's a quick way to get probation around here. also yes  @ being found not guilty, but then getting owned in civil court anyway. I didn't follow that trial at all (wasn't in the States when it happened), and barely know who OJ is, but I have heard that little detail and it always makes me chuckle.
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Jul 30, 2010 17:49
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BU is actually the nickname of the Princeton School of Law, it's named after one of their alumni who's name escapes me.
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Jul 30, 2010 17:52
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Can't tell if you're trolling 
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Jul 30, 2010 17:57
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Gadamer posted:Can't tell if you're trolling Google BU; see what comes up.
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Jul 30, 2010 18:01
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If I click a few pages I stop seeing Boston and see Binghamton University.
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Jul 30, 2010 18:11
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So, insensitive question time, while I was gone (about 6 months) how many of my lawbros lost their jobs or got deferred? What forms of wage slavery and/or hooker murder have you taken up? I'm genuinely curious but not gonna cram the last two iterations of this thread like it's contracts. Lykourgos posted:so your client can literally say "I did it, here's how, but I want to plead not guilty" and you can still go ahead without an ethical violation? Sounds dreadfully dishonourable/unethical Approach the bench. "Your honor, my client would like to invoke his right to testify. I will be unable to question him, so he wishes to testify in narrative form." The judge knows this means you know for a fact the guy is going to lie his rear end off and you can't direct because you'd be helping perpetrate a fraud on the court. Hopefully your jury is unaware of this wrinkle. I forget whether you're allowed to knowingly argue his false testimony in closing. yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Jul 30, 2010 |
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Jul 30, 2010 18:13
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Gadamer posted:If I click a few pages I stop seeing Boston and see Binghamton University. It's Boston, dude. 
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Jul 30, 2010 18:16
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Draile posted:"Know" is a really tough word in legal ethics. When exactly do you "know" something, rather than suspect it, or have a pretty good idea? Even if someone says "I did it," does that mean you know he did it? How do you know he's not lying? All Descartes bullshit aside, if the client tells his lawyer he did it the lawyer probably "knows" he did it, given how little reason there is to deceive someone who can't scream it to the world. This becomes a lot more definite if they admit it to the lawyer and say on the stand that they are innocent; either he's lying to you or he's lying to the jury, and the entire incentive structure of the trial system says he's lying to the jury. I suspect "definite" knowledge can probably be refuted if there's a lot that contradicts the client's admission, though. It's tough to imagine the attorney ever really being disciplined for putting the client on the stand anyway, though. You'd need the client (probably pissed at his representation if he got convicted) to come forward afterward and say "Yeah, I told my PD I shot him and that I wanted to testify so I could sell some bullshit alibi to the jury. But I totally did it and I'm owning up to that now just to gently caress my lawyer." yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Jul 30, 2010 |
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Jul 30, 2010 18:27
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Dr. Mantis Toboggan posted:It's Boston, dude. ...yeah I got that.
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Jul 30, 2010 18:36
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Angry Midwesterner posted:So, insensitive question time, while I was gone (about 6 months) how many of my lawbros lost their jobs or got deferred? What forms of wage slavery and/or hooker murder have you taken up? Well, I was given the job where I was interning during the time you were gone, so turn that frown upside down  on the other hand, a lot of us just got done with the bar and hate life
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Jul 30, 2010 18:37
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Lykourgos posted:There is no honour in defending a lie knowingly made, or actively deceiving the honourable judge presiding. And you want to be a DA? In Chicago? hahahahahahahahahahaha Or were you merely abstractly cogitating from your Olympian heights, where Perfect Knowledge prevails and Objective Truth is immediately discernable by all? In that case, there would be no need for a Constitution and no need for an adversarial system to determine factual matters. The Watchers, blessed with their perfect powers of perspicacity, would simply sweep in, punish wrongdoers in exactly the right manner and exactly the right amount and return to Olympus where their empyrean radiance would continue to illuminate the world. Well, given those ground rules, it would be irrational and immoral to disagree with you. In fact, in your world I would be unable even to conceive that disagreement would be possible. I don't live in that world. My clients and my witnesses don't live in that world. The cops and the judges and the DAs and their witnesses don't live in that world. We poor mortals have to make do with our incomplete knowledge, fallible memories and imperfect judgment. In order to get as close as we can to Truth and Justice, we approximate. The adversarial system is a pretty good approximation of your Perfect Knowledge. Our Constitution embodies a commendable effort to reach for your True Justice. To paraphrase Churchill, our judicial system is the worst way in the world to run a judicial system; except for all the other judicial systems. It's what we got. Your sophistry (and I mean that descriptively, not pejoratively) is fine for college bull sessions, but there's a real world out there that will not turn according to your feelings on how it should behave. You're in for a interesting time.
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Jul 30, 2010 20:26
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A seventeen year old defendant displays a weapon, says, "empty your loving pockets," and takes a cellphone off the victim. Upon collecting the phone, he kicks the victim's brother, runs off, and is apprehended by a police officer. He has the cellphone and a BB pistol on him. He has a prior youthful offender adjudication for Robbery in the First Degree, and was on probation when he committed the crime. What would you charge, and what sentence would you give? This is in NYC.
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Jul 30, 2010 20:34
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lipstick thespian posted:How would you be able to know the answer without knowing wheter the guy was a minority or not? For real.
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Jul 30, 2010 20:40
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the quote != edit gets me again
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Jul 30, 2010 20:41
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billion dollar bitch posted:A seventeen year old defendant displays a weapon, says, "empty your loving pockets," and takes a cellphone off the victim. Upon collecting the phone, he kicks the victim's brother, runs off, and is apprehended by a police officer. He has the cellphone and a BB pistol on him. He has a prior youthful offender adjudication for Robbery in the First Degree, and was on probation when he committed the crime. Don't know NYC, but out here in the hinterlands, it'd be First Degree Robbery. Assuming the YO case did not end up with an adult sentence, the plea bargain recommendation would be 15-20 years, approx. 90% to be served. After negotiations, it would be 8-10 at 90%, or 15-18 with approx. 45% to serve and parole eligible at 33%. If it went to trial, he'd get 10-12 at 90%. e: We have jury sentencing. Sentencing is determinate. joat mon fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Jul 30, 2010 |
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Jul 30, 2010 20:51
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joat mon posted:And you want to be a DA? It's an ASA here, and yes I was at the time reposing on mt. olympus. quote:In that case, there would be no need for a Constitution and no need for an adversarial system to determine factual matters. The Watchers, blessed with their perfect powers of perspicacity, would simply sweep in, punish wrongdoers in exactly the right manner and exactly the right amount and return to Olympus where their empyrean radiance would continue to illuminate the world. you'd still need laws for the commons, they just wouldn't touch the ambrosial members of the bar. quote:We poor mortals have to make do with our incomplete knowledge, fallible memories and imperfect judgment. In order to get as close as we can to Truth and Justice, we approximate. The adversarial system is a pretty good approximation of your Perfect Knowledge. Our Constitution embodies a commendable effort to reach for your True Justice. To paraphrase Churchill, our judicial system is the worst way in the world to run a judicial system; except for all the other judicial systems. The Constitution might be a commendable effort, but that doesn't mean we can't update it to include a learned class of gentlemen who are divorced from common society and reign supreme. Nothing out of the ordinary really quote:It's what we got. Your sophistry (and I mean that descriptively, not pejoratively) is fine for college bull sessions, but there's a real world out there that will not turn according to your feelings on how it should behave. Yeh, no. My views have worked out p well so far, and the judges and ASAs I've worked with have all been great. A learned society of Olympian judges and prosecutorial titans is not some unrealistic vision. You'd be half way there if you just partition the land and enfeoff judges as earls and dukes. Imagine a hearing before the Honourable Duke of Cicero, or perhaps spending time in chambers with the Earl of Lincoln Parkshire. Lykourgos fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Jul 30, 2010 |
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Jul 30, 2010 21:11
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Lykourgos posted:enfeoff Sometimes your gimmick annoys me, but I do love learning new vocabulary.
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Jul 30, 2010 21:14
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Lykourgos posted:Yeh, no. My views have worked out p well so far, and the judges and ASAs I've worked with have all been great. A learned society of Olympian judges and prosecutorial titans is not some unrealistic vision. You'd be half way there if you just partition the land and enfeoff judges as earls and dukes. Imagine a hearing before the Honourable Duke of Cicero, or perhaps spending time in chambers with the Earl of Lincoln Parkshire. Yeh, no. I know too many Judges. [obligatory] Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? I do.
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Jul 30, 2010 21:26
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joat mon posted:Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? never liked latins much, but if you have to say it: they would be a self regulating body of learned gentlemen, divorced from the common, monetary society. Like Spartans, dealing in iron spits and dedicating themselves to the good life; their feudal estates tilled by helots, and forum servers kept online by perioikoi. With such well raised men in charge, whatever could go wrong. Mistakes are ungentlemanly. quote:I do. lol yes a serf is going to watch them
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Jul 30, 2010 21:32
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Lykourgos posted:never liked latins much, but if you have to say it: they would be a self regulating body of learned gentlemen, divorced from the common, monetary society. Like Spartans, dealing in iron spits and dedicating themselves to the good life; their feudal estates tilled by helots, and forum servers kept online by perioikoi. With such well raised men in charge, whatever could go wrong. Mistakes are ungentlemanly. Strange, coming from a serf. Granted, a serf with an endearing veneer of classicism, but a serf nonetheless. And look what the last clique of effete, entitled and insular anglo-saxons turned into: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCyr1ugzxXM So, how would you break into such a system, my fine fellow?
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Jul 30, 2010 21:49
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Lykourgos posted:on the other hand, a lot of us just got done with the bar and hate life
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Jul 30, 2010 21:52
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JudicialRestraints posted:This. If you know your client is guilty you don't let him take the stand. See Rod Blagojevich
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Jul 30, 2010 21:57
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joat mon posted:Strange, coming from a serf. Granted, a serf with an endearing veneer of classicism, but a serf nonetheless. Not some low class serf at all, really. My purpose is evidently not to perform the mechicanical arts, and I keep myself fairly pure of common culture and excessive interest in money-making. Not sure what you're getting at, really. quote:And look what the last clique of effete, entitled and insular anglo-saxons turned into: If you think that video is on topic then you are seriously troubled. I did a short pupilage with people you might consider to be effete, entitled and insular, and they were nothing like that. I don't take them as my model, but that video is so far from the truth it hurts. quote:So, how would you break into such a system, my fine fellow? Study of the Classics, which enables you to identify high class from low class. After that, you're already half way there. Ersatz posted:For me its not so much hatred of life as exasperation with the pointlessness of this particular examination. Completing the bar felt more like escaping from three months of elaborate hazing than an accomplishment. Yeh, the bar does give a feeling of "why the gently caress did I have to undergo that?" I spent 10 full days studying and it was sheer agony the whole way. And for what? It is meaningless in light of the fact that lawyers and judges I've worked with have said I'm qualified, and I already jumped through enough hoops during the two decades of bullshit education we have all had to undergo. Lykourgos fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Jul 30, 2010 |
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Jul 30, 2010 22:03
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Lykourgos posted:Yeh, the bar does give a feeling of "why the gently caress did I have to undergo that?" I spent 10 full days studying and it was sheer agony the whole way. And for what? It is meaningless in light of the fact that lawyers and judges I've worked with have said I'm qualified, and I already jumped through two decades of bullshit education already.
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Jul 30, 2010 22:06
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I'd like to formally apologize for my behavior of several nights ago. It was that of a boorish, drunken lunatic, and not that of a formed and refined future-lawyer. I swear, I do have lawyering in me, on the genetic level. I just have to hold back the dogs of alcohol and drugs and immediacy. Planning for the future, forsaking the present, rather than t'other way around. And here is my OL prep-work, because I am so scared of failing at yet another thing:  And here is the best song that I ever did:\  All of that said, I think I can be a valuable resource for those on the cusp of the arts and the law and the navigation between the two. Particularly those coming from a non-white-trash background. People in this thread say entertainment law in the same breath as international law, and they are right, by my estimation. That said, if you know about loving music and art and the business of each, you WILL get that coveted job, less some moron aesthetic retard from gently caress-all U steals your spot. Point is, law students don't know poo poo about the arts. If you do, and want an art-law job, go for it! Half the loving morons that you will be reporting to will know less. It's just the way it goes.
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Jul 30, 2010 22:19
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Ersatz posted:Yep. Also, the fact that if we fail it, it will almost certainly be because of a subject we have never worked with, and don't give a gently caress about. What's that? I don't know some obscure real property issue? poo poo, Shelley's gonna be pissed I got her rule wrong. Deary me, I didn't do per stirpes right in the 10 minutes, close-book environment you gave me (with no prior warning of the question, to boot); guess I can't be a member of the bar now. Oh and let's not forget a lovely question I got about counting shareholders' votes; why yes please base a notable portion of my bar score on corporations. While you're at it, just tack another hundred dollars or so onto the bar exam fee; I thought prostitution was illegal but it feels great paying out the arse to get hosed around like this.
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Jul 30, 2010 22:22
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JudicialRestraints posted:This. If you know your client is guilty you don't let him take the stand. Yes, you can tell them it is a really lovely idea, but every once in a while the dumbass wants to testify that the officer who testified wasn't the officer who stopped him for DUI. He is an impostor. Yes, this did happen, and surprisingly, he was convicted. ---- Yes the bar is stupid. But on the other hand, at least it keeps some people out. Too many lawyers already. I highly recommend that you all just go gently caress off for a month after the bar if you can afford to. After I took the bar, I want to Australia and New Zealand for 2 months. Helped me regain a small amount of sanity. nm fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Jul 30, 2010 |
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Jul 30, 2010 22:25
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Lykourgos posted:If you think that video is on topic then you are seriously troubled. I did a short pupilage with people you might consider to be effete, entitled and insular, and they were nothing like that. I don't take them as my model, but that video is so far from the truth it hurts. That was humor, but I expect you'd consider humor (and the performing arts in general) to be corruptive elements of the common culture, to be eschewed by those concerned with identifying with the propertied class.
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Jul 30, 2010 22:29
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IzzyFnStradlin posted:My favorite part of Izzy's posts are the inevitable picture + "Izzy" note, so that we know it's a legitimate photo - as if we gave a poo poo whether his photos are real. Maybe the best part of his last post is he starts off all contrite and then devolves rapidly into crazy bad advice that is loosely connected with reality.  /in other news, I read a fascinating piece about Cucinnelli (Va's state AG), quite the principled lawyer he is. It's on washington post's website I think.
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Jul 30, 2010 22:32
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nm posted:Yes, you can tell them it is a really lovely idea, but every once in a while the dumbass wants to testify that the officer who testified wasn't the officer who stopped him for DUI. He is an impostor. Actual juror quote: "We were all going to vote not guilty... until your client testified." (he insisted on testifying)
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Jul 30, 2010 22:34
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Petey posted:Just got into DC. What's that great burger place? Ray's Hell Burger or something? Seconding Rays and Ben's Chili Bowl (Get a chili cheese half smoke with chili cheese fries and a chocolate shake).
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Jul 30, 2010 22:36
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Lykourgos posted:But you are lying, aren't you, if you just sit back and maintain your position of not guilty. Pleading no contest might be defensible, but if you sit back full well knowing your client is guilty, but maintaining to the court that he is not guilty, then that is flat out dishonesty. Not guilty doesn't mean that your client didn't do it. It can mean that he should not be subjected to criminal penalty by reason of some defense, for example. So no, it's not dishonesty.
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Jul 30, 2010 22:37
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entris posted:My favorite part of Izzy's posts are the inevitable picture + "Izzy" note, so that we know it's a legitimate photo - as if we gave a poo poo whether his photos are real. Maybe the best part of his last post is he starts off all contrite and then devolves rapidly into crazy bad advice that is loosely connected with reality. Izzy I don't believe you and your photo shopped google image results in a second. Make a youtube with some gnarly shedding + insane ranting and then maybe you'll be worth listening to.
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Jul 30, 2010 22:41
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IzzyFnStradlin posted:People in this thread say entertainment law in the same breath as international law, and they are right, by my estimation.
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Jul 30, 2010 23:37
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Ben's Chili Bowl is hugely overrated and is awash in tourists at all hours. But DC is such a terrible city for cheap food that there isn't much to recommend in its place.
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Jul 30, 2010 23:38
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Draile posted:Ben's Chili Bowl is hugely overrated and is awash in tourists at all hours. But DC is such a terrible city for cheap food that there isn't much to recommend in its place. Five Guys is pretty good for cheap food. The burgers and fries are tasty, and they are all over.
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Jul 30, 2010 23:57
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Five Guys is delicious although it's expanded everywhere now so I don't think of it as a DC-specific place to go.
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Jul 31, 2010 00:01
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IzzyFnStradlin posted:Based on the lack of reflection on the varnished surface of the "Izzy" placard I can tell this is an obvious photoshop job. Come on.
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Jul 31, 2010 00:11
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I'm just shocked that people are still reading his posts. The child isn't even a 1L yet.
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Jul 31, 2010 00:32
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