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Would somebody mind breaking down the wildcat formation for me? I've tried to understand it on my own but I feel like I'm not completely getting it.
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Aug 1, 2010 04:23
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This was already posted, but I dont know if you saw it. It does a good job of explaining the concept and the formation, as run by the Dolphins. http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/13/jets-at-dolphins-how-the-wildcat-works/
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Aug 1, 2010 16:10
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Doppelganger posted:Would somebody mind breaking down the wildcat formation for me? I've tried to understand it on my own but I feel like I'm not completely getting it. The term "wildcat" is getting overused and becoming a generic term for any formation in which there is a direct snap to a player who is not normally a QB. But the wildcat as used by the Dolphins was an unbalanced O-line (both tackles on one side), with a direct shotgun snap to Ronnie Brown, as Ricky Williams came sweeping across pre-snap in an end-around sort of motion. They would put the actual QB, Pennington, out as a WR, so he was still in the huddle and the defense coudln't tell it was a wildcat play until they actually lined up. There were only like 4 plays they really ran from that formation: Handoff to Ricky on the sweep, fake the handoff to Ricky and Ronnie runs off-tackle on the side with 2 tackles, or fake the handoff and Ronnie runs a counter to the other side. They passed out of it a few times, but it was never really a threat. Now that defenses know about the regular wildcat and can cheat for it, teams are starting to use it with personnel who CAN throw, so they have to re-adjust again.
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Aug 1, 2010 18:54
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Dominion posted:The term "wildcat" is getting overused and becoming a generic term for any formation in which there is a direct snap to a player who is not normally a QB. That's well and good, but the Dolphins didn't invent the Wildcat and so attributing "what the Dolphins used in 2007" as the only correct definition of the formation is incorrect. There isn't any consensus on what is and isn't a "Wildcat" formation, and the name doesn't really have all that much to do with Miami's unbalanced line/jet sweep variant - there's a formation invented by a HS coach, what Arkansas was running and turned into the Wildhog, what Carolina ran with the direct snaps, and then what Miami ran, and they can all be called "Wildcat." oldfan fucked around with this message at 21:53 on May 1, 2011 |
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Aug 1, 2010 20:55
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jeffersonlives posted:That's well and good, but the Dolphins didn't invent the Wildcat and so attributing "what the Dolphins used in 2007" as the only correct definition of the formation is incorrect. Oh certainly, the Dolphins didn't come close to inventing it. But when people ask "so whats this wildcat thing all about anyway?", they usually don't want a detailed history so much as an explanation of what the word means when they hear it on Monday Night Football or whatever.
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Aug 1, 2010 22:37
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Stupid question, but how much has football changed in the past 30 years or so? I've only really paid attention the last 3-4 years, but i when i see old school clips of even the 90's, the game feels off to me. Maybe i need to sit down and watch an older game in full. Maybe its the new style gear, but it seems nowadays players are stronger/faster/hit harder compared to even 10 years ago?
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Aug 1, 2010 23:12
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jeffersonlives posted:Meanwhile, in the NFL, the Carolina Panthers ran out of quarterbacks in a game late in the 2006 season. Dan Henning, who has been around long enough to have some familiarity with the single-wing and had already been messing around at points with older formations like the full house and wishbone, decided to employ an older-style single-wing with direct snaps to DeAngelo Williams as a last resort. It was fairly effective. If we want to get really accurate, Henning's Wildcat formation was designed around QB Brett Basanez - who was a Northwestern Wildcat. When they were going to run it, FB Brad Hoover was injured so they scrapped it, leading to the direct-snap-to-DeAngelo plays which are known as a the "Tiger" formation - Williams was a Memphis Tiger.
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Aug 2, 2010 01:17
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Crunkjuice posted:Stupid question, but how much has football changed in the past 30 years or so? I've only really paid attention the last 3-4 years, but i when i see old school clips of even the 90's, the game feels off to me. Maybe i need to sit down and watch an older game in full. Maybe its the new style gear, but it seems nowadays players are stronger/faster/hit harder compared to even 10 years ago? You know, I thought the same thing about old school football, about something feeling "off". And I also thought it was just players were just a bit slower than they are now or something like that. Then I read "The New Thinking Mans Guide to Professional Football". And if any one wants to learn about the technical side and evolution of the game, this is the book to read. In the book, the author mentions some 40 yard dash time of players of the era (the book was written in the 80's) and he mentions many of the star athletes running sub 4.4 times which is the same as it is now. I'm thinking that the bigger, bulkier pads slow down the athletes game speed more than the newest high tech stuff (the 40 yard dash is measured without pads) but I think the other thing is just the picture quality. We are just so used to seeing things in HD that things just look outdated when seen through 70's and 80;s film tech. As far as the evolution of the game from how its actually played, its changed a lot and stayed the same simultaneously. The pro game is featuring more and more passing, a trend that has existed since the forward pass was introduced in the game. People sometimes act like the increase in passing has been a thing that happened in the past 5 years or so, but it really isnt true. Its been increasing forever and has only been getting more effective, so we can expect the trend to continue. This is due in part to the West Coast offense concept being popularized in the 80's. Literally every offense is a west coast offense now and uses the basic theories philosophy and concepts from it. In short a West Coast offense uses precise timing and short routes to complete safer, short range passes. If you look at QB's completion percentages over the past 30 years, they have increased steadily because of the WCO. While the theory used to be that run plays were for short gains and pass plays were for long gains, the WCO concept is that many short pass plays can be perfected to net the offense 5 yards 70%+ of the time, making these short passing plays as threatening as a run on short yardage situations. Anyway, read The New Thinking Mans Guide. WinnebagoWarrior fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Aug 2, 2010 |
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Aug 2, 2010 03:01
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WinnebagoWarrior posted:Anyway, read The New Thinking Mans Guide. The author of said literature is Paul Zimmerman, better known as CNNSI's Dr. Z. It is a fantastic book and I'd also highly recommend it.
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Aug 2, 2010 03:52
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Dominion posted:Oh certainly, the Dolphins didn't come close to inventing it. But when people ask "so whats this wildcat thing all about anyway?", they usually don't want a detailed history so much as an explanation of what the word means when they hear it on Monday Night Football or whatever. But it really is just a generic term for "perimeter guy receiving a direct snap and running a misdirection or option play." The term entered the popular football lexicon from Arkansas, not the Dolphins, and it was basically just their generic term for the package which had McFadden (and occasionally Felix Jones) at quarterback. Arkansas certainly did a lot more then just jet sweeps and playactions off the jet sweep from an unbalanced line with their Wildcat, and it was a term being used a lot by 2007 to refer to the broader concept and not the limited Miami set (since the Dolphins hadn't even come up with it yet). Crunkjuice posted:Stupid question, but how much has football changed in the past 30 years or so? I've only really paid attention the last 3-4 years, but i when i see old school clips of even the 90's, the game feels off to me. Maybe i need to sit down and watch an older game in full. Maybe its the new style gear, but it seems nowadays players are stronger/faster/hit harder compared to even 10 years ago? Less than you'd think. Players are a little faster and a little stronger, but by the early 80s speed and strength were being emphasized so it isn't like comparing the game to the 40s or 50s. There haven't really been any great offensive or defensive innovations - West Coast offenses were already around then, and at least a few teams were running spread philosophies. The two biggest changes I can think of would be the advent of the spread formations as running sets and the existence of advanced zone defenses, most notably the Tampa 2. And the basis for both already existed by the 70s. I suspect that the reason it feels so different is because of the quality of television broadcast. There have been huge leaps in the quality of television football broadcasts in the last ten years, in terms of both resolution and camera angles.
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Aug 2, 2010 04:04
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/\/\/\ Agreed, it's not that everything is better, its that everything LOOKS better because of HD presentation and better-looking uniforms and gear. Football uniforms in the 70s weren't designed to look cool.WinnebagoWarrior posted:Stuff about the WCO The Blind Side goes into this as well. Basically, before Bill Walsh came along, people used to consider a 4-yard pass play to be a failure, while a 4-yard run play was a success. Which is dumb, because 4 yards is 4 yards and you still only need 10 to get a 1st down. So people didn't even bother with screen passes and short routes, except as distractions from the deep ball or safety valves. The concept of intending to throw a 5-yard out was just unheard of, basically. JoshTheStampede fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Aug 2, 2010 |
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Aug 2, 2010 04:07
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The reason why you never ever wanted to run a 4 yard pass play in the olden days was due to these rules not existing: 1974 - Roll-blocking and cutting of wide receivers was eliminated; the extent of downfield contact a defender could have with an eligible receiver was restricted. 1977 - Emphasis added towards blows to receivers heads. Defenders were permitted to make contact with eligible receivers only once; the head slap was outlawed; 1978 - Rules changes permitted a defender to maintain contact with a receiver within five yards of the line of scrimmage, but restricted contact beyond that point. 1980 - Rules changes placed greater restrictions on contact in the area of the head, neck, and face. Under the heading of "personal foul," players were prohibited from directly striking, swinging, or clubbing on the head, neck, or face. Starting in 1980, a penalty could be called for such contact whether or not the initial contact was made below the neck area. Note that spearing remained legal until 1996. In the olden days, a short pass was a license to have your receiver's neck seperated from his body.
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Aug 2, 2010 04:59
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adaz posted:I had no idea this existed, if you think of it maybe put a bit of a trip report together? Curious about this league. Here's a quick rundown: (sorry about the lack of pictures)
Some questions from a football newbie:
Some (maybe) dumb questions about the game itself:
kyuss fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Aug 2, 2010 |
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Aug 2, 2010 11:21
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jeffersonlives posted:Less than you'd think. Players are a little faster and a little stronger, but by the early 80s speed and strength were being emphasized so it isn't like comparing the game to the 40s or 50s. I kind of disagree. The top end speed hasn't gotten much better, there are a few more really fast guys but the combination of speed and strength has definitely improved. The DE and Linebackers are now huge masses of muscle that somehow still have good speed. There have been pretty huge increases in the physicality of the league since the 90's. kyuss posted:
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Aug 2, 2010 13:54
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kyuss posted:[*]are there regulations in American arenas concerning Vuvuzelas / compressed air horns / other silly poo poo like that? Concerning being a good sportsman and all, I found it quite annoying to see german spectators trying to drown out the opposing team by using these every time France were on offense Nope, that's just what you do at a football game, it's part of the sport. If a team has something like an organised band then they can't play after the offense breaks its huddle, but just making an almighty racket from the stand is part of the game. Only thing that's a problem is blowing whistles, because the players need to be able to rely on the whistle for safety reasons. quote:[*]are there seperate blocks in American arenas for the two fan bases? (I know its commonplace in soccer, as violence can be a problem sometimes) America's such a big place that a lot of the time it's just not practical to see your team playing away because of the travelling distance, so you don't get the same culture of regular travelling support. quote:bringing along a cheat sheet with the most important referee signals next time. Any suggestions where these can be looked up? Your game will probably be played to NCAA rules, so have this one instead: http://bafra.org/signals/index.htm
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Aug 2, 2010 14:16
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Trin Tragula posted:Nope, that's just what you do at a football game, it's part of the sport. If a team has something like an organised band then they can't play after the offense breaks its huddle, but just making an almighty racket from the stand is part of the game. Only thing that's a problem is blowing whistles, because the players need to be able to rely on the whistle for safety reasons. I'm pretty sure noisemakers are banned at most (all?) NFL stadiums. Not sure about NCAA stadiums, but I've never seen them. Trin Tragula posted:America's such a big place that a lot of the time it's just not practical to see your team playing away because of the travelling distance, so you don't get the same culture of regular travelling support. Mostly true for the NFL where teams travel further. College football stadiums usually have a visiting fan block, but they also end up peppered through the rest of the stadium.
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Aug 2, 2010 15:01
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How hard is it to get regular season tickets for an NFL game if you aren't a season ticket holder? I've never been to the US but I really want to see at least one live game and I was wondering how far in advance I would have to buy tickets or if it was even possible to get them without paying astronomical fees.
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Aug 2, 2010 15:15
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Tekopo posted:How hard is it to get regular season tickets for an NFL game if you aren't a season ticket holder? I've never been to the US but I really want to see at least one live game and I was wondering how far in advance I would have to buy tickets or if it was even possible to get them without paying astronomical fees. That depends dramatically on where you are going. If you are going to, say, Jacksonville, Oakland or Detroit then you'll be able to get reasonable tickets not far in advance. Others not so much. I mainly have experience with the Pats and if you don't have tickets already they'll probably be rather expensive.
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Aug 2, 2010 15:18
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Tekopo posted:How hard is it to get regular season tickets for an NFL game if you aren't a season ticket holder? I've never been to the US but I really want to see at least one live game and I was wondering how far in advance I would have to buy tickets or if it was even possible to get them without paying astronomical fees. If you want to see the Jags, you're in luck and you can probably take your time.
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Aug 2, 2010 15:24
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terrin posted:I'm pretty sure noisemakers are banned at most (all?) NFL stadiums. Not sure about NCAA stadiums, but I've never seen them. Right, but that's a stadium decision, not an NFL one.
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Aug 2, 2010 15:54
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Most college conferences don't allow artificial noisemakers
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Aug 2, 2010 17:17
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Dominion posted:Right, but that's a stadium decision, not an NFL one. The point being it's unusual to have a football game where noisemakers drown out the opposing team's offense, it has to be yelling and screaming and such, or speakers if you're in indy
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Aug 2, 2010 17:34
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Thanks for your kind answers. Noisemaking is fine by me, I just felt bad for the french team as they had so little supporters in that particular play. And gently caress Vuvuzelas on principle  I plan on visiting the German Bowl in October though. From what I've read, 20.000 - 30.000 spectators can be expected.
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Aug 3, 2010 12:50
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Bashez posted:I kind of disagree. The top end speed hasn't gotten much better, there are a few more really fast guys but the combination of speed and strength has definitely improved. The DE and Linebackers are now huge masses of muscle that somehow still have good speed. There have been pretty huge increases in the physicality of the league since the 90's. This is spot-on. Super fast individuals have existed for a long time in the NFL, but now everybody is bigger and faster as a group. There have been super-fast receivers all the way back to Bullet Bob Hayes in the 1960s. The difference is now you have teams drafting guys who were defensive ends in college that ran in the 4.4-4.5 range like Dwight Freeney and DeMarcus Ware.
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Aug 10, 2010 18:33
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So I ordered a Ravens jersey and it finally arrived, after only 3 months. I couldn't select the number and I couldn't find many places that shipped to my country, so I got number 23, McGahee. Is he any good? 
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Aug 11, 2010 13:54
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Tekopo posted:So I ordered a Ravens jersey and it finally arrived, after only 3 months. I couldn't select the number and I couldn't find many places that shipped to my country, so I got number 23, McGahee. Is he any good? He's pretty good. He's the #2 RB in Baltimore, though, because Ray Rice is amazing.
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Aug 11, 2010 15:29
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He was the starter 2 years ago and he blew, but he's a lot better with Rice in front of him. Solid pickup.
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Aug 11, 2010 15:44
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Blackula69 posted:He was the starter 2 years ago and he blew, but he's a lot better with Rice in front of him. Solid pickup. ? Last time he was really the starter was in 07, and he was pretty good then.
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Aug 11, 2010 17:26
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I had him on my fantasy team in 2008, I forgot he was injured pretty much the whole season. My bad.
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Aug 11, 2010 18:16
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Tekopo posted:So I ordered a Ravens jersey and it finally arrived, after only 3 months. I couldn't select the number and I couldn't find many places that shipped to my country, so I got number 23, McGahee. Is he any good? He was a superstar in college and has definitely had one of the more interesting careers. Here is him showcasing his flexibility. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92ifz2qqtm8 And here he is showcasing his previously undiagnosed narcolepsy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbDS5WKhdwM
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Aug 11, 2010 21:41
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God, Ryan Clark's really an awful player
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Aug 12, 2010 00:25
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DO YALL WANT A HAM posted:God, Ryan Clark's really an awful player Yeah but he played through whatever condition he had that meant he could have died any second on the field in Denver except when he didn't
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Aug 12, 2010 00:49
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He launched at him with his shoulder, and McGahee juked the wrong way. IT was an awkward hit, could've happened to anyone. All y'all babies better keep your helmet strapped on tight. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyNy-TkDGB0 100% legal. Actually, I think that's the hardest hit I've ever seen in a game.
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Aug 12, 2010 16:09
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Welker had given up on the play, the pass had been batted down already. And Clark's an awful player because he thinks he's doing something good & right instead of stupid & needlessly dangerous
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Aug 12, 2010 16:28
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DO YALL WANT A HAM posted:Welker had given up on the play, the pass had been batted down already. And Clark's an awful player because he thinks he's doing something good & right instead of stupid & needlessly dangerous It was called a personal foul anyway (though ruled not-illegal in the fining stage), then they just changed the rules anyway and it's illegal now regardless.
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Aug 12, 2010 16:31
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Kalli posted:It was called a personal foul anyway (though ruled not-illegal in the fining stage), then they just changed the rules anyway and it's illegal now regardless. Why, because of the "defenseless receiver" thing? Does that not go away when the ball is tipped like other PI-type penalties do?
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Aug 12, 2010 19:21
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Fouls against a defenseless player are completely different to pass interference, which is why it's a personal foul and it goes in a completely different bit of the rulebook. It's a player safety issue.
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Aug 12, 2010 19:54
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Trin Tragula posted:Fouls against a defenseless player are completely different to pass interference, which is why it's a personal foul and it goes in a completely different bit of the rulebook. It's a player safety issue. Oh, I get that. I just sort of thought that once the ball was tipped all the distinction between receivers and non-receivers was out the window. And now that I look at the hit again, I don't think Welker was "defenseless" on that play at all. He wasn't airborne, and was looking where he was going for two full steps before he gets jacked up. I thought the definition of defenseless was that you were in a position where you CAN'T protect yourself (like in mid-air or looking back for the ball), not just that you DIDN'T protect yourself.
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Aug 12, 2010 20:20
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Planet Rulebook's definition of a "defenseless player" includes the following two items.quote:• The pass receiver whose concentration is on the ball; It is a bit of a funny one because he kind of falls down the hole between the two definitions; he's just taken his concentration off the ball and is beginning to ease up, but he isn't "clearly relaxed" either. Thing is, that's the kind of hit that's on the way out of football and nobody will ever get dinged for calling it.
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Aug 12, 2010 22:47
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Trin Tragula posted:Planet Rulebook's definition of a "defenseless player" includes the following two items. Hmm, seems I was wrong. Those basically make the definition of defenseless into "player who has chosen not to defend himself", rather than "player who is incapable of defending himself". I like the latter much better as a definition. It's not Ryan Clark's fault that Welker gave up on the play while the ball was still in the air and he was still running a full-speed route over the middle. He shouldn't get penalized for a hit which would have been completely legal otherwise. I wonder if the recent expansion of "defenseless receiver" will lead to MORE injuries, since now QBs can throw those dangerous passes and hang their WRs out to dry to draw fouls from overzealous defenders.
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Aug 12, 2010 22:54
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