Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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Mattavist: May 24, 2003

you must have been a lovely applicant

# ? Sep 24, 2010 16:30

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 10:03

Petey: Nov 26, 2005; For who knows what is good for a person in life, during the few and meaningless days they pass through like a shadow? Who can tell them what will happen under the sun after they are gone?

MoFauxHawk posted:

Harvard also has a new admissions dean who seems to be less into 178+ LSAT scores than Toby Stock was.

I've only talked with him a few times, and there's never been anything explicit, but this I have a strong sense this is true.

The other thing to keep in mind is that while prestigious law schools are definitely more raw numbers driven than prestigious undergrad schools (because of USNWR rankings), at a certain point

- there are more people with great numbers than you can take, period, so great numbers alone don't guarantee you acceptance, and
- since you are taking so many people with great numbers no matter what, really spectacular (by which I do mean spectacular) softs do count for more comparatively than numbers past a certain point after which schools have no concerns about academic qualifications (see: Yale's open policy of admitting 25-40% of students because of fame / accomplishments / etc)

I feel bad for MoFauxHawk because ever since he was what, 19, folks have been telling him that he was a sure shot at Yale, and it must feel pretty lovely to not get in. So we shouldn't build Stop! up.

# ? Sep 24, 2010 17:17

Phil Moscowitz: Feb 19, 2007; If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

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# ? Sep 24, 2010 17:37

quepasa18: Oct 13, 2005

On the newest season of Hell's Kitchen, there's a contestant whose title is "law firm chef." Do biglaw firms really have their own kitchen/chef? I'd never heard of such a thing.

# ? Sep 24, 2010 17:48

billion dollar bitch: Jul 20, 2005; To drink and fight.
To fuck all night.

Maybe he was deferred and then chose a better career. Also MFH is a p. cool guy so basically Yale is worse off without him.

# ? Sep 24, 2010 18:08

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

Phil Moscowitz posted:

[timg]http://img.waffleimages.com/7325e2ffc59b159498b6bd21e35ecb3d8e1b9424/answer[1]_Page_1.jpg[/timg]
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he's got the syphilis

# ? Sep 24, 2010 18:18

JudicialRestraints: Oct 26, 2007; Are you a LAWYER? Because I'll have you know I got GOOD GRADES in LAW SCHOOL last semester. Don't even try to argue THE LAW with me.

MoFauxHawk posted:

He should absolutely apply, I agree.

That's the thing, Harvard's and Stanford's ranges have gone up in recent years. Harvard also has a new admissions dean who seems to be less into 178+ LSAT scores than Toby Stock was. I'll go into this on the condition that people don't get nasty and say I must have been a lovely applicant. I applied with numbers slightly better than his, LSAC 3.77 and 179, and I was dinged at Yale and Stanford and waitlisted with no acceptance at Harvard. For a couple years people were telling me I was absolutely guaranteed to get into Harvard, even if I completely hosed things up.

I'll admit that I did a few things that must have hurt my application in Harvard's eyes, and while I had interesting and varied soft factors, I didn't have anything legitimately impressive. But I wasn't just a fluke. There were several applicants on TLS and LSN who had slightly worse to a bit better numbers than mine who were also waitlisted by Harvard. Some got in and some didn't. So 3.75-3.8/178-180 isn't what it used to be. There was even a 180/3.79 woman I talked to who seemed very well-written and intelligent based on her posts/messages and had some work experience who was waitlisted and ended up at Columbia with I think a half scholarship.

I'm not complaining though, my cycle went well overall because I got a deferred full ride at Northwestern and I think that situation is as good as or better for me than anything but Yale or a full ride at a better school.

I have a close friend with a 178 and a 3.75 who also got waitlisted with no acceptance from Harvard.

While everyone else is a slave to numbers, HYS do what they want.

# ? Sep 24, 2010 18:25

Bro Enlai: Nov 9, 2008

I got into Harvard with 177/3.85, no bites from Yale or Stanford though. What I've heard is that Yale/Stanford are pretty idiosyncratic because their class sizes are so small.

# ? Sep 24, 2010 18:38

Kase Im Licht: Jan 26, 2001

quepasa18 posted:

On the newest season of Hell's Kitchen, there's a contestant whose title is "law firm chef." Do biglaw firms really have their own kitchen/chef? I'd never heard of such a thing.

Yep. Hogan ~~& Hartson~~ Lovells in DC has "Chez Hogan." Basically a cafeteria but pretty good quality, subsidized, and has some sort of chef running the joint. I assume other large law firms have similar setups, though that is the only one I'm familiar with.

# ? Sep 24, 2010 20:03

Tetrix: Aug 24, 2002

My friend got into the current 1L class at Harvard with Teach for America, 172/3.8.

# ? Sep 24, 2010 20:42

Stop: Nov 27, 2005; I like every pitch, no matter where it is.

Stop fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Feb 15, 2012

# ? Sep 24, 2010 20:50

MoFauxHawk: Jan 1, 2007; Mickey Mouse copyright
Walt Gisnep

billion dollar bitch posted:

Maybe he was deferred and then chose a better career. Also MFH is a p. cool guy so basically Yale is worse off without him.

Thank you! And thanks, Petey. Like I said though, I can't complain. I'm lucky that I got what I got. It certainly wasn't what I was expecting though.

# ? Sep 24, 2010 20:52

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

Kase Im Licht posted:

Yep. Hogan ~~& Hartson~~ Lovells in DC has "Chez Hogan." Basically a cafeteria but pretty good quality, subsidized, and has some sort of chef running the joint. I assume other large law firms have similar setups, though that is the only one I'm familiar with.

I'd consider working there to be a pretty bad stain on your resume as a chef unless it's gotten a lot better.

# ? Sep 24, 2010 20:55

Grammar Fascist: May 29, 2004; Y-O-U-R, Y-O-U-Apostrophe-R-E... They're as different as night and day. Don't you think that night and day are different? What's wrong with you?

quepasa18 posted:

On the newest season of Hell's Kitchen, there's a contestant whose title is "law firm chef." Do biglaw firms really have their own kitchen/chef? I'd never heard of such a thing.

Williams & Connolly (DC) also has its own lawyers-only dining room. It's actually pretty nice--rather than a cafeteria style, it's a regular sit-down place with menus and waiters and the like, and it's free for the attorneys. You can also order your lunch online and pick it up to go if you're antisocial/busy.

# ? Sep 24, 2010 21:04

Defleshed: Nov 18, 2004; F is for... FREEDOM

Grammar Fascist posted:

Williams & Connolly (DC) also has its own lawyers-only dining room. It's actually pretty nice--rather than a cafeteria style, it's a regular sit-down place with menus and waiters and the like, and it's free for the attorneys. You can also order your lunch online and pick it up to go if you're antisocial/busy.

God I cannot WAIT for the revolution

# ? Sep 24, 2010 21:43

The Warszawa: Jun 6, 2005; Look at me. Look at me.

I am the captain now.

Stop posted:

My relevant EC consists of being yelled at Korean by people in a legal center and combing through nonsensical Excel Spreadsheets for nonprofits. I'm not really banking on yale, harvard, or stanford. It'll be more of a pleasant surprise if I get in I guess

I had a worse LSAT than you and a slightly better GPA and I swept HYS (though I did have the benefit of being Hispanic), so I think while Petey and MFH are right to caution you off the "probable admit" consideration, you definitely have a shot and ought to at least see how it shakes out.

# ? Sep 24, 2010 21:50

Petey: Nov 26, 2005; For who knows what is good for a person in life, during the few and meaningless days they pass through like a shadow? Who can tell them what will happen under the sun after they are gone?

The Warszawa posted:

I had a worse LSAT than you and a slightly better GPA and I swept HYS (though I did have the benefit of being Hispanic), so I think while Petey and MFH are right to caution you off the "probable admit" consideration, you definitely have a shot and ought to at least see how it shakes out.

Yeah but dude, you're a cuban from the south.

That's not meant to take anything away from your achievement or success. I'm a big supporter of and believer in affirmative action, contextual reading, etc. That's why I won't even say you got a "boost" (because I think that's a bad way to frame affirmative action decisions, for the same reason that it's stupid to say poor folks "benefit" from having a lower tax burden). But the way your application was evaluated will not be the same way MFH's was and Stop!'s application will be evaluated. Put another way, your URM status was a hook for you in a way that they did not have.

And yeah Stop!, I'm not trying to dissuade you from applying to Yale (you probably should at least apply). Just...there's a lot of focus on numbers in this thread, and only numbers, and a misapprehension of numbers, when I think the reading process, while certainly containing a large chunk of numbers, relies on a lot more than just that.

Petey fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Sep 24, 2010

# ? Sep 24, 2010 22:06

IrritationX: May 5, 2004; Bitch, what you don't know about me I can just about squeeze in the Grand fucking Canyon.

The worst they can do is say no. If he can spare the cash for the application fees, why not give them the chance of rejecting the application before he does so for himself?

# ? Sep 24, 2010 22:07

Petey: Nov 26, 2005; For who knows what is good for a person in life, during the few and meaningless days they pass through like a shadow? Who can tell them what will happen under the sun after they are gone?

IrritationX posted:

The worst they can do is say no. If he can spare the cash for the application fees, why not give them the chance of rejecting the application before he does so for himself?

I agree 100%.

# ? Sep 24, 2010 22:08

entris: Oct 22, 2008; by Y Kant Ozma Post

IrritationX posted:

The worst they can do is say no. If he can spare the cash for the application fees, why not give them the chance of rejecting the application before he does so for himself?

Because rejecting yourself is an important life skill, doubly so for attorneys.

# ? Sep 24, 2010 22:12

The Warszawa: Jun 6, 2005; Look at me. Look at me.

I am the captain now.

IrritationX posted:

The worst they can do is say no.

I absolutely agree with this.

Also, Yale's a bit of an aberration because it does black box admissions - profs read your application and vote on you, there's no dedicated admit committee (aside from Asha who apparently can admit you or reject you without sending you to committee, which is rare as gently caress as Petey mentioned).

And yeah, Petey, you're right that my application was evaluated differently, and it also colored my essays in a pretty substantial way. While Stop! may not have those same hooks, I think that crafting a compelling narrative could push him over the top at YLS.

# ? Sep 24, 2010 22:24

IrritationX: May 5, 2004; Bitch, what you don't know about me I can just about squeeze in the Grand fucking Canyon.

entris posted:

Because rejecting yourself is an important life skill, doubly so for attorneys.

I guess to stick with the spirit of the thread, I should've written, "The worst they can do is say yes."

# ? Sep 24, 2010 22:33

Defenestration: Aug 10, 2006; "It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"; Grimey Drawer

Tetrix posted:

My friend got into the current 1L class at Harvard with Teach for America, 172/3.8.

Ugh, when will people stop enabling this horrible horrible program and the lies it perpetuates?

# ? Sep 24, 2010 23:27

Soothing Vapors: Mar 26, 2006; Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

Phil Moscowitz posted:

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this is basically how I plan to respond to my exam prompts this year

# ? Sep 25, 2010 00:48

entris: Oct 22, 2008; by Y Kant Ozma Post

Defenestration posted:

Ugh, when will people stop enabling this horrible horrible program and the lies it perpetuates?

What's wrong with TFA? Did you do it?

# ? Sep 25, 2010 01:35

Kase Im Licht: Jan 26, 2001

Grammar Fascist posted:

Williams & Connolly (DC) also has its own lawyers-only dining room. It's actually pretty nice--rather than a cafeteria style, it's a regular sit-down place with menus and waiters and the like, and it's free for the attorneys. You can also order your lunch online and pick it up to go if you're antisocial/busy.

The non-attorney (contract attorneys and staff attorneys are not attorneys at W&C) cafeteria however, is a shithole.

# ? Sep 25, 2010 02:27

chinchilla: May 1, 2010; In their native habitat, chinchillas live in burrows or crevices in rocks. They are agile jumpers and can jump up to 6 ft (1.8 m).

Defenestration posted:

Ugh, when will people stop enabling this horrible horrible program and the lies it perpetuates?

Please elaborate! I've been looking at that program. Or at least, thinking about looking at it.

# ? Sep 25, 2010 02:30

Ainsley McTree: Feb 19, 2004

chinchilla posted:

Please elaborate! I've been looking at that program. Or at least, thinking about looking at it.

There was(/is?) a thread in ask/tell about it that was less than kind to the program.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3339748&pagenumber=1&perpage=40

Stop posted:

I have a friend who's campus recruiter for TFA at my school. Her assessment is that TFA's primary purpose is educating the candidates about the situations in inner-city schools etc. After these candidates complete the program, they'll climb to the top of their career fields and enact top-down change to the education system etc.

The focus isn't on educating the students themselves. The "teachers" are often hilariously ill-equipped for the job and TFA doesn't offer too much help there.

Also there's a lot of stories about how TFA tends to reject those who would make the best teachers in favor of candidates who are most likely to be successful in business/politics/etc

Edit. Not too sure how true that is, but it seems to make sense. I was exploring that and Peace Corps too. Then I realized I hate kids, and kids hate me and that my immune system would literally kill me in rural third world.

Yeah, that's basically the gist of the thread.

Ainsley McTree fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Sep 25, 2010

# ? Sep 25, 2010 02:34

Stop: Nov 27, 2005; I like every pitch, no matter where it is.

Stop fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Feb 15, 2012

# ? Sep 25, 2010 02:34

HooKars: Feb 22, 2006; Comeon!

Could we keep the Teach for America stuff in the TFA thread please?

# ? Sep 25, 2010 03:22

entris: Oct 22, 2008; by Y Kant Ozma Post

HooKars posted:

Could we keep the Teach for America stuff in the TFA thread please?

We've only had 3 posts on it, sheeeeeesh.

Sounds like someone isn't enjoying employment as much as she thought she would.

In other news I met a fellow tax LL.M. who was a pretty stereotypical "tax attorney" - terrible people skills and very awkwardly dressed, with a bonus "no I don't know what I want to do with this extra degree I'm getting" attitude.

# ? Sep 25, 2010 04:28

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

GULC shitheads: rugby tomorrow @ 11 am on constitution and 6th

be there

# ? Sep 25, 2010 05:53

Baruch Obamawitz posted:

GULC shitheads: rugby tomorrow @ 11 am on constitution and 6th

be there

I'm in DC and play rugby, but I just had dead people surgery Tuesday for my third and fourth knee ligament tears and can't walk yet. Otherwise I would totally join you guys. Also I'm done with rugby forever. Be careful Baruch, you're probably pretty soft now from that government job <3

# ? Sep 25, 2010 06:29

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

MoFauxHawk posted:

I'm in DC and play rugby, but I just had dead people surgery Tuesday for my third and fourth knee ligament tears and can't walk yet. Otherwise I would totally join you guys. Also I'm done with rugby forever. Be careful Baruch, you're probably pretty soft now from that government job <3

Over the past year, I've separated one shoulder, sprained the other shoulder, sprained my ankle, broke three toes, and I'm still playing.

# ? Sep 26, 2010 02:46

HooKars: Feb 22, 2006; Comeon!

entris posted:

We've only had 3 posts on it, sheeeeeesh.

Sorry, the founder of TFA is a very close friend of mine and I purposely avoid the threads on it and would rather it be there than here.

Work has actually become very quiet again, just like my old job. Perhaps it's me and not the economy.

HooKars fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Sep 26, 2010

# ? Sep 26, 2010 04:05

Petey: Nov 26, 2005; For who knows what is good for a person in life, during the few and meaningless days they pass through like a shadow? Who can tell them what will happen under the sun after they are gone?

http://laboratorium.net/archive/2010/09/26/a_parable_of_horribles

Grimmelmann posted:

A Parable Of Horribles

There was a three-year boot camp of particular awfulness. Most new recruits were miserable, but at least, they were constantly told, the brutality was necessary for making soldiers out of them. Over time, however, the drill sergeants gradually decided that shouting wasn�t the best training method. The country needed soldiers who could make good decisions under pressure, not just snap perfectly to attention whenever spoken to. So they started changing what they told the recruits to do, and how they said it.

But then a strange thing happened. The recruits still prided themselves on the precision of their salutes. They formed their own �drill groups� to run repeatedly through the parade-ground maneuvers that were taught in the first few months of the three-year program. And strangest of all, the same soldiers-to-be who were competing fiercely with each other to run the obstacle course the most times in the rain objected to being put in situations that resembled (however imperfectly) actual combat. �What are our orders, sir?� they asked, time and time again, even when the premise of the exercise was that they were cut off behind enemy lines.

Perhaps law school is a bit of a bottom-up boot camp?

# ? Sep 27, 2010 04:46

Green Crayons: Apr 2, 2009

Petey posted:

http://laboratorium.net/archive/2010/09/26/a_parable_of_horribles

I don't know what I'm supposed to do with this. I have a drill group to attend, you let me know when I get back tonight. Thanks.

# ? Sep 27, 2010 10:33

J Miracle: Mar 25, 2010; It took 32 years, but I finally figured out push-ups!

Just registered for my last term of classes....admin law and securities reg and I'm OUT, that's kind of terrifying and awesome at the same time.

Still holding onto the slim hope of a state supreme court clerkship...

# ? Sep 27, 2010 17:46

GamingOdor: Jun 8, 2001; The stench of chips.

J Miracle posted:

Just registered for my last term of classes....admin law

You just ensured that your last semester of law school will be spent studying one of the most excruciating areas of law. These cases get so boring that the judges writing the opinions sometimes break down into quoting bad movies or comparing ligers to tigons etc. Did you at least take it pass/fail?

# ? Sep 27, 2010 22:44

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 10:03

J Miracle: Mar 25, 2010; It took 32 years, but I finally figured out push-ups!

No I blew my pass/fail on business enterprises cause I let people scare me about the exam and then I got an A anyway.

If admin law sucks at least it won't be part of a heavy work load.

# ? Sep 27, 2010 23:31

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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