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Lunael posted:Edit: Playing against Infect, your general policy is to trade / use removal up front, and try to get them to run out of steam. I'd play the Hellkite since if you drop it, they probably will have already used their answers, and if you're not on your way to win already, it'll get you there single-handedly. I understand the importance of committing to the infect archetype, but cards that will win you the game by themselves trump that.
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Nov 4, 2010 01:52
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Not only that but if you throw that exoskeleton on it that's what, 7 poison right there, with extra if you turn on firebreathing?
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Nov 4, 2010 02:05
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ChannelFierball used to have a series called "What's the pick", and by "used to" I mean they did one episode during Shards limited. I thought it was really cool, and its one of my favorite things to talk about in terms of magic limited. So... P1P1 Arrest or Glimmerpoint Stag. Also, I had an actual draft, where it was... P3P4 I think. I was G/W Metalcraft. I had probably 14 artifacts, and a pretty strong deck. I think I had 1 Arrest, 1 Revoke Existance, and 1 Sylvok Replica. My pick was Arrest or Myrsmith. I ended up taking Arrest, and ended up going 3-0, so... there's that
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Nov 4, 2010 04:56
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Arrest in both cases. p1p1, I'd rather take the card that is both hard removal for every bomb in the format, and easier to cast/splash. in G/W metalcraft that late, I'd rather have the arrest, because G/W is weak on removal. I'd take the stag only if I felt that I would have enough artifacts that would need refreshing that it would be worth it - 3+ tumble magnet/trigon of rage. Myrsmith is drat fine, but Arrest is one of the few cards in the format that beats the 5 toughness bombs.
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Nov 4, 2010 05:12
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Sigma-X is right, Arrest in both cases. Great removal that's easy to splash makes it both a great p1p1 and a better way to solidify an already strong deck than Myrsmith. I don't know why you'd say that GW is weak on removal, though, when it's better than it's been in just about any block. Arrest, Revoke Existence and Sylvok Replica are all great.
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Nov 4, 2010 05:55
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Dispense Justice is also really fantastic for WX metalcraft. Two attackers for 3 mana typically eats at least one good creature.
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Nov 4, 2010 07:08
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Vanilla Bison posted:Sigma-X is right, Arrest in both cases. Great removal that's easy to splash makes it both a great p1p1 and a better way to solidify an already strong deck than Myrsmith. yeah, g/w is better than it usually is, but most of the removal it has is disenchant analogues, which are blank against half the format, which is why having Arrest is so good. Being able to deal with an opponent's Hoard Smelter Dragon or Scrapdiver Serpent is really important.
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Nov 4, 2010 07:18
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Sigma-X posted:yeah, g/w is better than it usually is, but most of the removal it has is disenchant analogues, which are blank against half the format, which is why having Arrest is so good. Being able to deal with an opponent's Hoard Smelter Dragon or Scrapdiver Serpent is really important. Agreed, but the only color besides white that can do anything about those cards at common is red with Turn to Slag. Judging on commons alone, GW is probably the strongest removal combination after RW, because Grasp of Darkness is so splash-unfriendly and both Fume Spitter and Instill Infection are so limited in what they can deal with.
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Nov 4, 2010 07:32
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ChewyLSB posted:ChannelFierball used to have a series called "What's the pick", and by "used to" I mean they did one episode during Shards limited. I thought it was really cool, and its one of my favorite things to talk about in terms of magic limited. http://mtglimitedresources.blogspot.com/ The authors also write articles for both puremtgo and mtgoacademy.
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Nov 4, 2010 08:10
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Yawgmoth posted:Dispense Justice is also really fantastic for WX metalcraft. Two attackers for 3 mana typically eats at least one good creature. I dislike Dispense Justice, although I'l play it if I get it. It just gets so much worse against good players. I do like how it's also actually pretty hard to use: a lot of the time, the right call is to wait until the Combat Damage step, after all the creatures have dealt damage and some attackers have been traded off, and then play it. I very rarely see people figure out that play, though.
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Nov 4, 2010 09:04
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Ashenai posted:I do like how it's also actually pretty hard to use: a lot of the time, the right call is to wait until the Combat Damage step, after all the creatures have dealt damage and some attackers have been traded off, and then play it. I very rarely see people figure out that play, though. Another thing I've done is use fulgent distraction to tap down two guys that aren't a huge threat so that they can only attack with their dragon or whatever. Either hold back for a turn and you buy time or they walk right into a DJ when they call your bluff.
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Nov 4, 2010 09:15
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The upside of not picking up the Hellkite was pretty much that I was able to play 16 lands comfortably, a land count where I think on the play you're looking at playing 6cc card turn 9-10 on average. Generally my Infect decks end up low curve, ending at 4cc and preferably not too packed there. The downside was, well, not having a single card that could win a game by it's own if unanswered. Can't really argue with that. I actually boarded out Grafted Exoskeleton in two matches (for Wing Puncture, Relic Putrefaction if I remember right). I still tend to draft it and deck it in most Infect decks, but each time it feels less than it should be on the paper. In this draft, every time I had it in hand I just had better cards to play for the occasion, generally creatures or disruption like Tumble Magnet and Rust Tick. In the two matches I boarded it out artifact hate was running pretty rampant too.
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Nov 4, 2010 10:49
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So yesterday apparently was 12-? queue night: I was sure this was MTGO bugging on me again, like it sometimes does showing cards in collection double. Relogging generally helps with the bug. But as my collection still shows tonight that I went up 12 packs from what I had after joining the queue... MTGO sure is bugging out a ton recently. During the Scars prereleases almost every time when I got to choose whether draw or play, choosing option just grayed the button in question out but didn't advance me anywhere. Had to relog to get to see my hand. Cards disappearing from the board too, opponent had invisible Deathmantle in one draft and I had to relog to actually make it appear again.
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Nov 4, 2010 21:03
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So, ten drafts down in MTGO, 9 8-4 and 1 4-3-2-2. The breakdown of decks I've drafted is a tad boring: 5 BG 2 RW 1 UR 1 RG 1 UW BG Infect just feels the best deck of the format in the current draft tables, as bizarrely enough it looks to be open pretty often. I'm really, really trying to keep my eyes open for UR decks. Blue is the new green it looks like, but weak enough that you really want it to be open to jump in. And you really want to help it with some removal colour, likely red or white.
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Nov 5, 2010 23:34
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Lunael posted:BG Infect just feels the best deck of the format in the current draft tables, as bizarrely enough it looks to be open pretty often. It doesn't really have any magic backing, but if you consider a lot of people started out wanting to draft infect, and being burned from it being so shallow, most people might be trying to avoid infect. Enough people do, and bg Infect is wide open in draft.
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Nov 6, 2010 02:38
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Half of Dracula posted:It doesn't really have any magic backing, but if you consider a lot of people started out wanting to draft infect, and being burned from it being so shallow, most people might be trying to avoid infect. Enough people do, and bg Infect is wide open in draft. They also might be falling into the same trap that I've fallen into: "Well, p1p1, there's red/white removal and there's a good infect creature. The removal should be a safer pick. Next, here's a good on-color card, I shouldn't go for infect yet. Next pick, huh, infect still seems to be coming, but now I'm not sure I can cut it hard enough..."
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Nov 6, 2010 02:44
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I ended up drafting WR metalcraft with Hoardsmelter Dragon, 2 Kemba, and a good handful of equipment/cheap things with some removal. Pumping out 3-4 kitties a turn was great, as was blowing up rusted relics and smashing face. Finished in 2nd place, and the guy who beat me to get 1st had almost an identical deck but he drew his removal and I didn't.
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Nov 6, 2010 03:23
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Vanilla Bison posted:They also might be falling into the same trap that I've fallen into: "Well, p1p1, there's red/white removal and there's a good infect creature. The removal should be a safer pick. Next, here's a good on-color card, I shouldn't go for infect yet. Next pick, huh, infect still seems to be coming, but now I'm not sure I can cut it hard enough..." This is why I consider p1p1 Darksteel Axe the strongest choice in current drafts. It leaves you open to anything and when a good infect creature gets passed pick 2 or 3 you're very able to cut infect from that point on.
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Nov 6, 2010 03:37
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Top 8'd the Wellington (NZ) sealed PTQ, losing in the first top 8 round. Heres my sealed pool: White: Arrest x2 Fulgent Distraction x1 Ghalma's Warden x2 Loxodon Wayfarer x1 Salvage Scout x1 Seize the Initiative x1 Tempered Steel x1 Blue: Neurok Invisimancer x1 Riddlesmith x1 Scrapdiver Serpent x1 Screeching Silcaw x2 Shape Anew x1 Stoic Rebuttal x1 Trinket Mage x1 Turn Aside x1 Vault Skyward x1 Black: Contagious Nim x1 Moriok Reaver x3 Necrogen Scudder x2 Painsmith x1 Plague Stinger x2 Relic Putrescence x1 Red: Blade-Tribe Berserkers x1 Embersmith x1 Flameborn Hellion x2 Oxidda Daredevil x1 Oxidda Scrapmelter x1 Vulshok Heartstoker x3 Green: Acid Web Spider x1 Blight Mamba x1 Blunt the Assault x2 Carrion Call x1 Cystbearer x1 Lifesmith x1 Molder Beast x2 Tangle Angler x1 Untamed Might x1 Viridian Revel x2 Withstand Death x1 Artifact: Auriok Replica x2 Barbed Battlegear x1 Bladed Pinions x1 Chimeric Mass x1 Copper Myr x1 Corpse Cur x1 Culling Dais x1 Darksteel Juggernaut x1 Flight Spellbomb x1 Glint Hawk Idol x1 Golden Urn x2 Golem Foundry x1 Heavy Arbalest x1 Infiltration Lens x1 Leaden Myr x1 Liquimetal Coating x1 Memnite x1 Neurok Replica x1 Origin Spellbomb x1 Perilous Myr x1 Razorfield Thresher x1 Semblance Anvil x1 Snapsail Glider x2 Steel Hellkite x1 Strider Harness x1 Sylvok Lifestaff x1 Sylvok Replica x1 Tumble Magnet x1 Wall of Tanglecord x1 Heres the deck. I went 4-1-1 in a 55ish field. Arrest x2 Ghalmas Warden x2 Salvage Scout x1 Tempered Steel x1 Blade-Tribe x1 Embersmith x1 Oxidda Scrapmelter x1 Copper myr x1 Chimeric Mass x1 Glint Hawk Idol x1 Darksteel Jugs x1 Leaden Myr x1 Origin Spellbomb x1 Perilous Myr x1 Snapsail x2 Steel Hellkite x1 Strider Harness x1 Sylvok Rep x1 Sylvok Lifestaff x1 Tumble Magnet x1 Thoughts? Builds?
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Nov 6, 2010 08:10
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Pretty much correct IMO - it's a pretty sick pool. I personally think Salvage Scout or Strider Harness should have been Culling Dais but that's probably just personal preference.
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Nov 6, 2010 08:35
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LCQC posted:Top 8'd the Wellington (NZ) sealed PTQ, losing in the first top 8 round. Depending on the mana base I would have loved to streach for one or two Necrogen Scudders. Lead myr plus two swamp gives you a really nice body that can evade a ton of creatures. On the other hand I assume you're splashing for that Sylvok Replica, which plays better with your Tempered Steel. If so, Neurok Replica is also a good splash that can be a great tempo move. Also, Wall of Tanglecord is p.much a great card for stopping dudes, especially if you're already splashing green. Cutting either Salvage Scout or Blade Tribe would be what I'd cut for either of those.
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Nov 6, 2010 15:36
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A drafting mulligan question: I drafted B/G infect. Game 1, my opening hand had 2 forests and 0 swamps, but with 1 swamp I could have played all my spells, so I kept it, but didn't get a swamp the rest of the game and lost. Game 2, my opening hand had 2 swamps and 0 forests; reacting to the last game, I mulliganed, got a 0-land hand, then got a 4-swamp hand (and lost). What is the actual correct policy for a 2-swamp or 2-forest hand in this case (assuming a couple spells are playable with those 2 lands)? edit: my deck has 8 swamps and 9 forests. Edly fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Nov 6, 2010 |
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Nov 6, 2010 18:09
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vertiginominal posted:A drafting mulligan question: If you can't cast any of the spells in your hand, it's usually a good idea to mulligan.
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Nov 6, 2010 18:27
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vertiginominal posted:A drafting mulligan question: The information you've given is not enough to determine if you should have mulliganed. There are two swamp hands you can keep, and two swamp hands you need to mulligan. Whether you're going first or second is also a huge factor.
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Nov 6, 2010 18:31
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Ashenai posted:The information you've given is not enough to determine if you should have mulliganed. There are two swamp hands you can keep, and two swamp hands you need to mulligan. Whether you're going first or second is also a huge factor. Sorry, I suspected that might be the case. Here's what the hand was: 2x Forest Sylvok Lifestaff (1) Tumble Magnet (3) Necropede (2) Necrogen Scudder (2B) Tainted Strike (B) And I was playing second. Could you elaborate on why whether you're going first makes a big difference?
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Nov 6, 2010 18:54
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vertiginominal posted:Sorry, I suspected that might be the case. Here's what the hand was: I keep this hand, this isn't even close for me. Sucks that you got manascrewed, but I think you made the right decision regardless. If you were going first, this would be a much harder decision. I probably still keep, though. quote:Could you elaborate on why whether you're going first makes a big difference? Hands with good cards but sketchy mana are much more keepable on the draw, because you get an extra card. For instance, with the hand you posted, if you're going first and you draw two non-lands, you can't cast that Tumble Magnet of turn 3. Going second, you get three chances to draw that land.
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Nov 6, 2010 18:59
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Ashenai posted:I keep this hand, this isn't even close for me. Sucks that you got manascrewed, but I think you made the right decision regardless. If you were going first, this would be a much harder decision. I probably still keep, though. Awesome, thanks for the advice.
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Nov 6, 2010 19:02
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Gerund posted:Depending on the mana base I would have loved to streach for one or two Necrogen Scudders. Lead myr plus two swamp gives you a really nice body that can evade a ton of creatures. Yeah I ran 2 forests w copper myr. I knew I was playing white so I was tossing up between black and red. The Wall is a card I misjudged, it should have been in.
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Nov 6, 2010 23:37
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We have a pretty small FNM scene here, so we draft most of the time. After the comments I've gotten on my last SOM draft, I went into Infect as soon as I saw an opening last Friday. Getting an Contagion Engine p1p1 made the decision a LOT easier, of course. Ended up in the middle field, but I felt like I had a pretty good deck in the end and had a lot of fun playing it. So yeah, I'm definitely not going to rule out Infect from the get-go from now on. Also, some input on my M11 draft would be greatly appreciated: http://www.raredraft.com/watch?d=1seo9
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Nov 7, 2010 12:20
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Retcon posted:Also, some input on my M11 draft would be greatly appreciated: http://www.raredraft.com/watch?d=1seo9 Haha, I looked at the first pack in the context of "input would be appreciated" and instantly thought "He's going to gently caress himself over." Hoarding Dragon is a diabolical trap, because it's obviously powerful as a first pick, but it shoves you hard into a terrible color. You rarely get actual use out of the artifact-fetching ability, either. Second pick, I would have favored the Foresee over the Griffin just because you already passed a Blinding Mage. There's also an argument for Quag Sickness and forcing red/black. When Jace's Ingenuity comes, it's definitely the strongest card, but it's double-colored, so that was the moment you needed to think hard about color commitments. Blue was definitely flowing, but you'd already shipped Water Servant, Foresee and Cloud Elemental, so you probably weren't going to get much support in the second pack. None of the on-color cards are good enough to discourage you from being adventurous, but you're not running green, so you should have been looking to ditch either red or white after you took the Ingenuity. None of your choices from that point on are unjustifiable, but if you're unsure about your colors in the second pack and you don't have any mana fixing, you need to commit and cut hard so that hopefully you'll get passed some decent material in the third pack. p2p4 Lightning Bolt works fine as a splash, p2p5 Shiv's Embrace does not. You still look shaky as hell in the overview at the end of pack 2, but then a wave of on-colors and artifacts completely shored up your deck, so I guess despite my bitching you navigated the signals handily enough. Regarding your draft comments, on p1p6, I don't think you're stubborn about picking colors if you have three colors halfway through the first pack and are looking longingly at a fourth. And why do you dislike Cloud Crusader? They're solid, just slightly outclassed by Azure Drake. In a UW setup without a Stormfront Pegasus in sight, I'd take and run four Crusaders before I'd draft Inspired Charge.
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Nov 7, 2010 13:59
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Vanilla Bison posted:Haha, I looked at the first pack in the context of "input would be appreciated" and instantly thought "He's going to gently caress himself over." Hoarding Dragon is a diabolical trap, because it's obviously powerful as a first pick, but it shoves you hard into a terrible color. You rarely get actual use out of the artifact-fetching ability, either. quote:None of your choices from that point on are unjustifiable, but if you're unsure about your colors in the second pack and you don't have any mana fixing, you need to commit and cut hard so that hopefully you'll get passed some decent material in the third pack. p2p4 Lightning Bolt works fine as a splash, p2p5 Shiv's Embrace does not. You still look shaky as hell in the overview at the end of pack 2, but then a wave of on-colors and artifacts completely shored up your deck, so I guess despite my bitching you navigated the signals handily enough. quote:And why do you dislike Cloud Crusader? They're solid, just slightly outclassed by Azure Drake. In a UW setup without a Stormfront Pegasus in sight, I'd take and run four Crusaders before I'd draft Inspired Charge. Thanks for the commentary.
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Nov 7, 2010 14:42
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I'm in the Master's Edition sealed tournament queue. I know I'm not going to win it, but first place gets a full foil set of any Master's Edition set. I'd definitely pick ME2 because it has the highest priced dual lands. You could easily get 200 tickets for selling the set.
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Nov 7, 2010 18:48
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Headed to a 2HG sealed in about 30 mins. When I get back late tonight I'll let you know how stupid poison is in that format.
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Nov 7, 2010 19:05
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Johflop posted:I'm in the Master's Edition sealed tournament queue. I know I'm not going to win it, but first place gets a full foil set of any Master's Edition set. I'd definitely pick ME2 because it has the highest priced dual lands. You could easily get 200 tickets for selling the set. Selling to supernovabot would give 285 tickets for the duals alone according to their price list  ( http://supernovabots.com/prices_3.txt )
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Nov 7, 2010 19:06
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Karnegal posted:Headed to a 2HG sealed in about 30 mins. When I get back late tonight I'll let you know how stupid poison is in that format. Is poison not altered at all for 2HG? Thats always struck me as a little weird in any formats with "teams", usually life totals are altered, but Mill and Poison are the same amounts and should theoretically be much better in a team game.
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Nov 7, 2010 19:53
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ChewyLSB posted:Is poison not altered at all for 2HG? Thats always struck me as a little weird in any formats with "teams", usually life totals are altered, but Mill and Poison are the same amounts and should theoretically be much better in a team game. When you hit somebody with poison it only goes on that person's life total, it's not shared. When they hit 10 counters they're eliminated but their teammate still lives and now has the ability to attack either opponent instead of just the one across from them.
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Nov 7, 2010 23:12
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Wollawolla posted:When you hit somebody with poison it only goes on that person's life total, it's not shared. When they hit 10 counters they're eliminated but their teammate still lives and now has the ability to attack either opponent instead of just the one across from them. No, if one person on a team dies their whole team dies. Poison and mill are broken in 2HG because you kill people twice as fast.
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Nov 7, 2010 23:14
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Ultima66 posted:No, if one person on a team dies their whole team dies. Poison and mill are broken in 2HG because you kill people twice as fast. That's not how it works online.
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Nov 7, 2010 23:22
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Wollawolla posted:That's not how it works online. Yes, but that's how it's supposed to work. Multiplayer formats in MTGO are shoddily coded at best and outright broken at worst. It's something to be exploited, sure, but that's not the way it should be.
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Nov 8, 2010 00:09
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Well, I went 1-4 drop with a weird pool with my best removal being in green, blue, and red but no evasion in any of those colors, but I still won the Force of Will lottery. Hurray 70 tickets!
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Nov 8, 2010 02:54
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