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Use of Weapons is one of those books that does need to be read at least twice I think so everything clicks, its layout is a bit scatter gun at times and makes it a bit awkward to read.
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Oct 30, 2010 17:30
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Danith posted:Oh, also with the culture We need to get this guy out so instead of using super jesus technology lets send a random neanderthal down there to buy a street and waste billions of space bucks - finally convinces the guy to leave to see a park or something and instead of being sneaky about it he just blows everything up. And at the end.. Oh, we didn't think you would win so we made a deal with the other side and now they should win The entire point was that the Culture couldn't show their hand in the conflict. If they popped in and either declared for a side, or otherwise could be blamed for involving themselves, it would cause the war to grow unpredictably. They really did need a 'man on the ground' approach.
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Oct 30, 2010 18:59
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But the culture apparently contacted and made a deal to help out the other side. Towards the end Zak comments on the new explosive shells the other army suddenly started using that day. I don't know :| My brain exploded
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Oct 30, 2010 19:24
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Cuntpunch posted:The entire point was that the Culture couldn't show their hand in the conflict. If they popped in and either declared for a side, or otherwise could be blamed for involving themselves, it would cause the war to grow unpredictably. They really did need a 'man on the ground' approach. No they didn't. Use of weapons is a book about cheradenine zakalwe so I don't blame Banks for putting cheradenine zakalwe in the book but the excuse the culture gives to use him at all in that situation is really loving thin. Their technology is literally magic and the aliens they were loving around with were benighted primitives in comparison. They could have resolved that situation any number of ways without revealing themselves.
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Oct 30, 2010 21:10
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I always felt that a sub-text to it was that the minds knew he was the chairmaker and were giving him a chance to redeem himself, probably just overthinking it though.
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Oct 30, 2010 22:50
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andrew smash posted:No they didn't. Use of weapons is a book about cheradenine zakalwe so I don't blame Banks for putting cheradenine zakalwe in the book but the excuse the culture gives to use him at all in that situation is really loving thin. Their technology is literally magic and the aliens they were loving around with were benighted primitives in comparison. They could have resolved that situation any number of ways without revealing themselves. The book doesn't clearly paint the conflict in a very obvious way, but it isn't a single planet of just some backwater pre-space civilizations involved - it's a spacefaring civilization spanning _many_ worlds. They're aware of the Culture, they have the tech to take down a module, and so any overt 'magical' actions by the Culture will likely result in backlash that would truly polarize the entire region and drag them directly into war.
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Oct 31, 2010 05:37
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I realize it's a spacefaring civilization, one of the major plot points involves zakalwe getting stuck on one of their spaceships...? My point was primarily that based on the other culture novels it's really clear that the culture's tech is exactly as wizardly and amazing as banks needs it to be for any given story which ends up with it being sort of annoyingly inconsistent. The existence of special circumstances in general is a specialized case of what I consider the central conceit of the culture novels in general. The Minds keeping humans around at all makes for more interesting stories but the idea that humans (and drones for that matter) can do *anything* more effectively than Minds is pretty silly when they are really not much more than entertaining and occasionally insightful pets.
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Oct 31, 2010 13:26
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I'm hurrying past the spoliers as I'm only 4 chapters into Surface Detail. Enjoying it so far. I saw the name in the spoliers when I was flicking through the book when I first bought it and wish I hadn't. Will be interesting to see where it goes. On the question of what you'd like to see filmed, none of them. I would like to see them 10-part-mini-series'd though. That would give them enough time to do the stories justice. Consider Phlebas would be my first choice.
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Oct 31, 2010 15:23
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Surface Detail: Can anyone explain the relationship between The Nauptre Reliquaria & the Fallen/Unfallen Bulbitans which was hinted at? Why did Semsarine Wisp suddenly attack Yime & her ship?
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Nov 1, 2010 02:58
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andrew smash posted:The existence of special circumstances in general is a specialized case of what I consider the central conceit of the culture novels in general. The Minds keeping humans around at all makes for more interesting stories but the idea that humans (and drones for that matter) can do *anything* more effectively than Minds is pretty silly when they are really not much more than entertaining and occasionally insightful pets. It's something for people to do. The culture isn't just the Minds, it's the people and AI's in it. Also the minds pretty much care about stuff. Some more than others. Remember the bit in Look to Windward, when the Masaq hub relates what it had to do in the Idiran war and how it observed what it did. 'People matter'. That was the point expressed multiple times with different aspects in the book 'Matter'.
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Nov 1, 2010 17:14
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I didn't see that ending coming. Also, Surface Detail really has made me realise what a completely monsterous thing the idea of Hell is. Not to get all angry atheist, but seriously, gently caress any religion that is totally cool with Hell as a justified punishment. 
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Nov 2, 2010 16:26
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Just finished The Bridge and I really enjoyed it. Found it fairly amusing, and didn't mind that the ending was a little predictable. I particularly liked the cameo appearance of a knife-missle as the dirk (and perhaps a drone as the familiar?) in the dream of the knight. Of the non-M books, I've only read that and The Wasp Factory, so I was thinking of Walking On Glass for the next one.
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Nov 2, 2010 21:36
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JammyB posted:Just finished The Bridge and I really enjoyed it. Found it fairly amusing, and didn't mind that the ending was a little predictable. I particularly liked the cameo appearance of a knife-missle as the dirk (and perhaps a drone as the familiar?) in the dream of the knight.
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Nov 2, 2010 21:44
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FelchTragedy posted:It's something for people to do. The culture isn't just the Minds, it's the people and AI's in it. Also the minds pretty much care about stuff. Some more than others. Remember the bit in Look to Windward, when the Masaq hub relates what it had to do in the Idiran war and how it observed what it did. 'People matter'. That was the point expressed multiple times with different aspects in the book 'Matter'. Dude, I know. I've read and love the books too. But you cannot read a culture novel in any way approaching critically without being confronted with the fact that the grand utopia can only exist while its gods see fit to keep things running smoothly for their (frankly somewhat blase) charges. I said god for a specific reason, too. Basically any culture mind is capable of doing anything that the abrahamic god does in the old testament without really trying. The only exception would be creating the universe, but if you consider that the ancient jews had no idea what a universe was and could only have really referred to their planet than a mind could clearly do that too. They are literally gods and the humans of the culture live in their shadows and don't even bother with a burnt offering every now and again. What happens when a god gets tired of taking care of its indifferent worshippers? I know at least some of you guys played black & white too.
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Nov 3, 2010 01:41
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andrew smash posted:What happens when a god gets tired of taking care of its indifferent worshippers? I know at least some of you guys played black & white too. Peer pressure from its fellow gods keeps it in check, or they give it a mean name behind its back or something.
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Nov 3, 2010 02:19
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The Dark One posted:Peer pressure from its fellow gods keeps it in check, or they give it a mean name behind its back or something. Exactly. Plus it's the culture of the culture to be sort of very nice. Well intentioned at least. Reminds me that the Rapid offense units are argued by some to look quite ugly as ships are designed to be out of some form of guilt from the Minds. If the culture Minds did decide to wipe out it's biological charges it would be similar to all the other AI swarm wars that had existed in the past. Matter spoiler: ___________________Like the Iln___________________ Look to windward spoiler: Also you do get rogue Minds who do turn on their own. Also the possibility of a rogue group of Minds that are OK with causing the death of billions in order to harden themselves from without and stop decadent complacency.
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Nov 3, 2010 15:43
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I just finished Use of Weapons. I really enjoyed it.
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Nov 3, 2010 16:39
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Serak posted:Surface Detail: Can anyone explain the relationship between The Nauptre Reliquaria & the Fallen/Unfallen Bulbitans which was hinted at? Why did Semsarine Wisp suddenly attack Yime & her ship? Surface Detail: Presumably the relationship exists in because the Nauptre are preparing to sublime, and the Bulbitans have connections to the Sublimed. It could also be possible that the NR are exploiting this relationship to house their Hells in the Bulbitans. Regarding point 2, wasn't it because Yime had the SC lace in her head? The Bulbitan could have interpreted that as an attempt to attack it since (i) the Culture was anti-Hell and (ii) it was already believing that the anti-Hell side was prepared to attack the Bulbitans in an attempt to destroy what they thought harboured Hells.
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Nov 4, 2010 01:54
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I just finished up Matter, it was the first Culture book I've read. I really wasn't satisfied by the ending though. It seemed like the Iln were only mentioned once, when they were talking about the history of the shellworlds early in the book. After that they were never mentioned again. I guess that makes for a nice surprise at the end of the book, but I feel like I would have been more astounded by the reveal if they had given a little more description of the race. Also, Djan's plan at the end is kind of retarded. The Iln plans to kill them all anyway, and quickly, so why would it not kill the 2nd person to show themselves just as quickly as the first? I guess I like the whole book except the last 50 or so pages.
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Nov 4, 2010 21:05
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If anything, the last 50 pages or so of Matter I think are the best, generally because the pace kicks into high gear all of a sudden compared to the rest of the book and that had me hooked.
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Nov 4, 2010 21:08
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Well, I definitely burnt through the last few pages much more quickly than the rest and for the most part I enjoyed it. I just feel like Banks was shooting for a "HOLY poo poo!" moment and it didn't deliver for me. I liked the universe a lot though and will probably read more of the Culture books soon.
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Nov 4, 2010 21:13
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Going to meet Iain next week. Anything worth asking maybe?
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Nov 5, 2010 02:16
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FelchTragedy posted:Going to meet Iain next week. Anything worth asking maybe?
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Nov 5, 2010 05:40
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Graviton v2 posted:Ask him if he is a swinger. NO. I meant something I wasn't already going to ask him. About books and poo poo.
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Nov 5, 2010 13:37
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FelchTragedy posted:NO. Ask if any of his books will feature a bi-sexual androgyne that dies while giving birth to itself.
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Nov 5, 2010 23:05
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FelchTragedy posted:Going to meet Iain next week. Anything worth asking maybe? Ask him whether the cola Bascule drinks at the end of Feersum Endjinn is Coke or Pepsi
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Nov 6, 2010 01:11
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Ask whether the identity of the outside influence the minds hinted were behind the the events in Look To Windward will be revealed at some point.quote:Only a little. I had my back-up by then. A couple of GSVs have been here or hereabouts for a while, as well as the Experiencing A Significant Cravitas Shortfall. Once we knew what you were up to, they could protect me even from an attack like the one you envisaged. We let it happen because we’d like to know where the other ends of those wormholes are. Might tell us something about who your mysterious allies were. Graviton v2 fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Nov 6, 2010 |
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Nov 6, 2010 03:23
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The Greater Reviled, duh. 
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Nov 6, 2010 04:17
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Ask him if he is going to scrub the last 10 pages of Transition and finish it properly.
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Nov 6, 2010 09:38
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Ask him if he ever feels bad about killing Loot in A Song of Stone, and if not why not  As regards his other words, I've just finished reading Surface Detail, and I really enjoyed it, but my favourite book is still Use of Weapons. The scene when Skaffen-Amtiskaw rather violently dispatches Sma's attackers is the best fight I've ever read.
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Nov 6, 2010 16:50
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Ask him if we're going to get to see more SC agent + SC drone combos. Would love to see a pair of them finally get to go all out.
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Nov 6, 2010 20:48
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Hey, does anyone have a copy of Consider Phlebas they wouldn't mind sending my way? I'd even pay shipping. My library doesn't have a copy. 
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Nov 7, 2010 16:52
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Argali posted:Hey, does anyone have a copy of Consider Phlebas they wouldn't mind sending my way? I'd even pay shipping. My library doesn't have a copy. You can get it on amazon for under $4
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Nov 7, 2010 17:00
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The Dark One posted:Peer pressure from its fellow gods keeps it in check, or they give it a mean name behind its back or something. "So after it started insisting that they don't acknowledge any other Minds as existing and that they never, under any circumstance talk to any other Mind, all the other Minds started to call it Your Head is Very Huge, alluding to its overwhelming ego."
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Nov 8, 2010 19:00
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Ask him why sublimed and semi-sublimed creatures/civilisations have a bias against forcefield technology. (it's probably because forcefields are four or five-dimensional constructs that intrude on their higher dimensional space but ask it anyway)
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Nov 9, 2010 09:56
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Umiapik posted:I've always rather disliked the Culture. I know that it's Bank's idea of heaven but I find it hard to view it as anything but a bunch of self-indulgent, overgrown children and their sanctimonious robot babysitters. I read Look to Windward and spent the whole time rooting for the Chelonians to succeed in blowing the Orbital up: I thought that the Culture totally deserved it. Who the hell do they think they are? "Yeah, we came along interfering in your society and ended up causing a catastrophe but we didn't mean to do it and, hey, you sometimes get these statistical blips. Sorry!" Nit-picking a bit, but they were the Chelgrians. The Chelonians were a race of tortoise-men from Doctor Who. Now that door's open...I'm a huge fan of both the Culture novels and Doctor Who and was wondering if anyone had read The Also People by Ben Aaronovitch? The plot is basically 'The Doctor turns up on a Culture Orbital and solves a murder mystery'. Whatever you may think of the DW franchise it's obvious that the author is really into Banks and he added a few nice touches to his Culture-analogue society. Examples: the groups that would normally make up most governmental functions are basically clubs of people with similar interests with nicely Orwellian doublespeak names. The cops are the 'Interpersonal Dynamics Interest Group'; the military, rather than being Contact and SC are 'Xenocultural Relations (Normalization) Interest Group' and so forth. Instead of coloured fields drones indicate their mood with holographic cartoon smiley faces. The Mind that runs the O (actually it's a Dyson Sphere) has got a pretty warped sense of humour - it keeps sending a suspicious-looking and unappetizing bright yellow dip to all the parties. There's no way that the Mind can NOT notice noone touches the dip, but they're too polite to say anything and the Mind keeps sending it anyway. Also the penalty for murder is people stop inviting you to their parties. It's like a somewhat comedic take on the Culture, personally I rather liked it.
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Nov 10, 2010 08:25
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M_E_G. ADI. K posted:Nit-picking a bit, but they were the Chelgrians. The Chelonians were a race of tortoise-men from Doctor Who. Sounds quite a bit like culture meets dwellers (the interest group thing anyway). Also the murder thing is a direct reference to a conversation that occurred (i think) in look to windward. Since culture humans generally have failsafes in place against unwanted death, killing one is more of a nuisance and is kind of a jerk thing to do but not a huge deal. Apparently if a person went out of their way to completely and irrevocably murder another culture citizen beyond the point where they could be remade, the murderer would be a social pariah but that's about it.
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Nov 10, 2010 14:21
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andrew smash posted:Apparently if a person went out of their way to completely and irrevocably murder another culture citizen beyond the point where they could be remade, the murderer would be a social pariah but that's about it. He'd also have a drone permanently assigned to monitoring him.
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Nov 10, 2010 17:37
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M_E_G. ADI. K posted:The Mind that runs the O (actually it's a Dyson Sphere) has got a pretty warped sense of humour - it keeps sending a suspicious-looking and unappetizing bright yellow dip to all the parties. There's no way that the Mind can NOT notice noone touches the dip, but they're too polite to say anything and the Mind keeps sending it anyway.
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Nov 10, 2010 18:06
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MeLKoR posted:He'd also have a drone permanently assigned to monitoring him. Sucks for the drone.
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Nov 10, 2010 21:45
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