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andrew smash posted:Sucks for the drone.
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Nov 10, 2010 22:46
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The drone in question would probably get to gossip all about whomever they're monitoring, too. And if it got bored, I'm sure it'd be easy to find a volunteer to replace it.
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Nov 10, 2010 22:52
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It's kind of funny how in Surface Detail, the first time we ever actually meet a Slap Drone, Lededje manages to ditch it almost immediately.
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Nov 10, 2010 23:05
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She didn't really do it herself though.
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Nov 10, 2010 23:53
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I thought it was just a knife missile that would follow the person around, which Zakalwe didn't gave much problem with.
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Nov 11, 2010 01:38
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Entropic posted:Lededje manages to ditch it almost immediately. This being the Culture, she got a replacement immediately, just as planned.. ^^^ Also isn't Zakalwe a bit of an aberration though? I thought SC recruited him because (for a human) he had an unnatural penchant for winning fights.
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Nov 11, 2010 01:45
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andrew smash posted:Sucks for the drone. I don't know, judging by the personality of the drones in the stories they seem very sarcastic. I bet the drone would have a blast enacting "ceiling drone is watching you take a dump" all the time just knowing it was driving the person nuts. Seriously, no privacy ever again while you live is actually kind of a brutal punishment if you think about it. I'd rather do some years of jail time and get it done with.
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Nov 11, 2010 11:06
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Argali posted:Hey, does anyone have a copy of Consider Phlebas they wouldn't mind sending my way? I'd even pay shipping. My library doesn't have a copy. How incredibly generous of you.
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Nov 11, 2010 15:05
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MeLKoR posted:I don't know, judging by the personality of the drones in the stories they seem very sarcastic. I bet the drone would have a blast enacting "ceiling drone is watching you take a dump" all the time just knowing it was driving the person nuts.
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Nov 11, 2010 16:28
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Thats one thing that bugged me about mind design, here they are super utopia where anyone or anything can do what they want in theory, yet they design minds to be violent bastards for warships and some stupid docile plebs who are happy to be gelfield suits. The suit minds are for example built to be happy with their lot. They are stupid slaves by design.
Graviton v2 fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Nov 11, 2010 |
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Nov 11, 2010 16:52
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Well you have to design artificial intelligences somehow. If you just grow them randomly you'll end up with the problems natural intelligences have where some of them either actively want to or don't care about harming or destroying other intelligences.
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Nov 11, 2010 17:09
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Sindai posted:Well you have to design artificial intelligences somehow. If you just grow them randomly you'll end up with the problems natural intelligences have where some of them either actively want to or don't care about harming or destroying other intelligences. Actually if you don't influence proper high level Minds, they go straight to Sublimination, do not pass Go, do not collect 200 units of exchange capital, or whatever it's called in age-of-scarcity societies.
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Nov 11, 2010 17:18
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Banks specifically says that there's an element of chance in the creation of Minds -- they aren't just personalities made to spec -- so that what you end up with is sort of a curve: most Minds come out of the factory fairly "normal" and well-adjusted, but some of them come out just a bit too aggressive to be put in charge of fearsome hi-tech weaponry, and on the other end of the scale, some of the come out a bit too insular and borderline solipsistic to really want to take part in the Culture, and just head off on their own, or Sublime. But that's the price they pay for having a wide variety of Minds that will be able to come up with new ideas and keep things fresh. And of course there's a great bit in Look to Windward explaining about how all AIs are necessarily influenced by the species who created them... quote:Most civilisations that had acquired the means to build genuine Artificial Intelligences duly built them, and most of those designed or shaped the consciousness of the AIs to a greater or lesser extent; obviously if you were constructing a sentience that was or could easily become much greater than your own, it would not be in your interest to create a being which loathed you and might be likely to set about dreaming up ways to exterminate you. And I think most of the stuff like modules and suits are characterized as being highly complex AIs, but not actually complex enough to be sentient. Entropic fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Nov 11, 2010 |
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Nov 11, 2010 17:40
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Suits can have a range of intelligence. There's a basic minimum needed which is needed to keep the thing running smoothly (and I think the Culture tends to require things past a certain point of complexity to be sentient), but the user can request something more in line with a normal person or drone. Genar-Hofoen's suit was pretty dumb, but in that short story, Descendant, the suit's inner monologue seems pretty normal, if delusional.
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Nov 11, 2010 20:59
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Instead of signing my audiobook here is a message from Iain: hello, good to see you
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Nov 12, 2010 22:59
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Just finished Surface Detail! It was a nice fun page-turner romp, but I have issues: It seemed like most of the characters were just sort of along for the ride as events unfolded, without actually contributing much to the plot. Yime in particular, and to a lesser extend Lededje, basically just tag along to give the ship Minds some human characters to converse with. The same problem Excession had, basically. And frankly, most of the characters were pretty dull. Veppers was the same sort of one-dimensional mustache-twirling villain as Luseferous in The Algebraist was, and putting him on the Anti-Hell side for the moral ambiguity of it seems a bit cheap on Banks' part, given that they just go ahead and kill him in the end anyway. Vateuil's vignettes were interesting, but you never really get to know him as a character, which makes the big revelation about who he really is at the end seem kind of like a pointless gimmick. The only character I really loved was Demeisen/Falling Outside the Normal Moral Constraints. Don't get me wrong though, it was great fun to read, and nice return to form after Transition. Look to Windward is still the high-water mark IMHO though.
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Nov 12, 2010 23:56
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FelchTragedy posted:Instead of signing my audiobook here is a message from Iain: Did you ask him any of our questions?
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Nov 13, 2010 01:39
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Just bought Transition thinking it was a part of the Culture series  It wasn't an awful read, but when you're craving one thing and end up with another it's hard to keep from being disappointed.
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Nov 14, 2010 07:02
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FelchTragedy posted:Instead of signing my audiobook here is a message from Iain: Does he enjoy browsing the forums?
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Nov 14, 2010 20:36
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Serak posted:Surface Detail: Can anyone explain the relationship between The Nauptre Reliquaria & the Fallen/Unfallen Bulbitans which was hinted at? Why did Semsarine Wisp suddenly attack Yime & her ship? Yeah, i didnt get the connection between The Nauptre Reliquaria & the Fallen/Unfallen Bulbitans either. It just seemed like a disconnected thread in the plot. Entropic posted:Veppers was the same sort of one-dimensional mustache-twirling villain as Luseferous in The Algebraist was, and putting him on the Anti-Hell side for the moral ambiguity of it seems a bit cheap on Banks' part, given that they just go ahead and kill him in the end anyway. As i remember it, veppers wasnt for any side as such. He just moved in the same direction the wind was blowing, and was solely focused on his own interests. And he definitely deserved to be killed, in a painfull way, perhaps with a spoon. Btw, i want an Abominator class starship for christmas santa.
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Dec 6, 2010 01:05
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Ikonoklast posted:Btw, i want an Abominator class starship for christmas santa. Maybe if you ask REAL NICE one will inhabit your body for a while!
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Dec 6, 2010 13:22
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Maybe if you ask REAL NICE one will inhabit your body for a while! but then he will make me do gay stuff 
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Dec 6, 2010 17:23
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Just finished The Business. I liked the main character and the book had a really interesting premise, but overall Banks kind of squandered it. I mean seriously getting some super-rich dude to reveal his part in a huge conspiracy by locking him out of his new Ferrari and over-revving the engine?
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Dec 6, 2010 18:30
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I just reread Use of Weapons, which reminded me of a question I had about it. I can't find any exploration of this idea on the internet, even though it seems to be to be crucial to the book's central character and his origins. At the end of the book, it's revealed that the protagonist is Elethiomel, and that he was responsible for the war on his homeworld and for an atrocity at the end of it. Several important details are ambiguous: 1) Was this a revolution against the established structure (which was a typical feudal oligarchy, with nobles and slaves)? That would make Elethiomel's apparent personality more consistent - otherwise, and I've read numerous complaints about this, it seems like his motivations for fighting ("do good") sprung up mysteriously on the way to Iceberg Planet. His father was imprisoned and later killed for political reasons; you can read this as being a rival to the top oligarchs, or, a dangerous revolutionary. Either way, Elethiomel seems to be motivated by this and follows in his footsteps. I think it's the second one for circumstantial reasons; for one, the family wasn't (as) wealthy. Later on in the world's history the Staberinde, symbol of Elethiomel's army is considered a monument and museum - preserved, like it would be done by a later more progressive culture who recognised the fight against the nobility as an important step. 2) Did the crew of the Staberinde, in fact, win the battle? In the chapter describing it it says that "they fought well, and almost won", but this is revealed to have a double meaning - the doctors fighting for Cheradinine's life lost that battle. Does it actually have only a single meaning, and so the revolutionaries(?) won? This would be consistent with the preservation of the site, and with Elethiomel's abilities - but reviews and critiques I've read seem to make the opposite assumption. I haven't seen any interpretations of the book which make these assumptions; I've seen several which complain about a lack of consistency, or even say that the major twist reduced the moment's power for them as a result. Surely this is just a common error. I think the better reading is that Elethiomel decided to do anything necessary to win a 'just' war, as he does later in life, but found that this first and perhaps most excessive 'use of weapons' was an unending regret.
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Feb 5, 2011 13:37
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Gul Banana posted:I just reread Use of Weapons, which reminded me of a question I had about it. I can't find any exploration of this idea on the internet, even though it seems to be to be crucial to the book's central character and his origins. 1. Elethiomel's war wasn't quite a revolution but was more a civil war - not altogether a bad thing, considering the apparently oppressive nature of the existing government with its apparent willingness to murder political opponents (his parents), but not particularly altruistic either. I thought his intentions to do good came about as a result of his 'becoming' zakalwe in exile. 2. I thought the book was pretty clear in indicating that both groups fought hard and lost - the attitude of the post-war government (turning staberinde into a monument, etc) seems to be one that came about through a truth and reconciliation process or something similar. Also if elethiomel won it would have been odd for him to flee the planet in exile regardless of how terrible he felt.
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Feb 5, 2011 16:16
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Gul Banana posted:I just reread Use of Weapons, which reminded me of a question I had about it. I can't find any exploration of this idea on the internet, even though it seems to be to be crucial to the book's central character and his origins. I don't think there's enough information in the book to definitively answer #1. However, re: #2: They definitely lost the battle. "Almost won" applies to both. I think the way to look at is, Elethiomel's forces were encircled and in enormous danger, but his use of the chair was almost enough for them to break out despite their tactical disadvantage. This is important because in the Winter Palace, his last mission for the Culture, he is similarly under siege. The Culture minds expect him to lead a break out, but by this point he has lost faith in what he's doing and is unwilling to do something outrageous to achieve victory. SC concludes he's washed up. We might conclude he's on the verge of becoming a more healthy person. Of course, he ends up backsliding and doing the same stuff again, just outside the Culture's purview this time (plus his "present day" mission in the book). No one's ever accused Banks of forcing a happy ending.
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Feb 6, 2011 00:57
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[quote="Lex Talionis"] I don't think there's enough information in the book to definitively answer #1. I don't think it's a safe assumption that the ruling authority that he was fighting against was an evil one. It's been a while since I read it, but I don't recall any clear indication that his father was fighting for anything in particular, so it could have simply been one noble trying to replace another. Further, if they were really that evil, why would they have welcomed the child into their house? But it has been a while, so maybe I'm forgetting something.
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Feb 6, 2011 02:44
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Oh poo poo I forgot to mention that I sepnt about 5 hours chatting to Iain over the course of the three day convention stuff I learned. Use of weapons: Originally the book's use of Reverse chapters resulted in the story ending in the middle which was an anti climax. With the insight of his mate Ken McCleod he reworked it to it's current state. Surface Detail: The gold in the mercury lake thing was pointed out as scientifically not working. Iain said I will have that corrected in the next edition. OK stuff I can remember from my chat: I made a ship name that I put on my badge. He looked at it at worked out it's meaning and was really thrilled as he thought it was like a crossword puzzle. I hadn't thought of it that way but I guess it fit. I also mentioned that there people here on the forums I use who usernames named after Minds. He was chuffed by that. I said that because he keeps going geting honarary phd's the universities are having to put up tuition fees in order to fund his acceptance ceremonies. And thus I comically accused him that he was stifling social mobility. Of the Scifi he watches on TV his favourite was Farscape. Also he watches loads of TV shows that we all watch like IT crowd and big bang theorey but he hadn't seen Garth Marenghi's Darkplace. So I told it was a pisstake of a certain author as well as some other authors and reccommended it to him to watch. Talked about politics and other stuff. I'm afraid I forgot the questions that you all asked me to ask. It was difficult anyway because the convo was swirling away and with other people and it seemed wrong to pull out a phone and ask questions. I did one question of my own and it seemed real nerdy of me. FelchTragedy fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Feb 8, 2011 |
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Feb 8, 2011 00:35
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FelchTragedy posted:I made a ship name that I put on my badge. He looked at it at worked out it's meaning and was really thrilled as he thought it was like a crossword puzzle. I hadn't thought of it that way but I guess it fit.
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Feb 8, 2011 02:27
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I hope they update the kindle version of Surface Detail, there's large sections where the dividers for each segment is eliminated and sentances end up leading into each other. Just finished Surface Detail and thought it was pretty good, the ending seemed to come pretty drat fast though compared to the beginning of the novel which stately plodded along.
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Feb 8, 2011 02:45
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wins32767 posted:What was the name? ROU: Reversing bus Blunder It took him about 10 seconds.
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Feb 8, 2011 03:24
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Reading through Look to Windward again, I came across this bit:quote:'In any case, even if heaven did not exist originally, people have created it. It does exist. In fact, lots of different heavens exist.' 
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Feb 8, 2011 06:24
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Huh, that's a clever find. The central premise of Surface Detail is so brilliant I'm not surprised he'd been thinking about it or something related ahead of time. Unfortunately I don't think it was his best. All the bits about Hell and the war were brilliant, but he cheated by making the antagonist so thoroughly unambiguously slimy. Lededje seemed to oscillate weirdly between capable hardass and someone more like that society girl from Excession, and the third principal character didn't have anything to do at all. It was a great journey but I'm starting to wonder if the Culture's wearing thin. It all feels so safe now. As hilarious a character as the ROU was, I never once even suspected that he (or anything in his care, including Lededje) would ever be in real danger. I haven't read Use of Weapons, though. Ought to go back and do that one next, yes? General Battuta fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Feb 9, 2011 |
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Feb 9, 2011 01:01
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Just finished _The Algebraist_ and was pleasantly surprised, albeit not with the usual Banks ending(poo poo HAPPENS gently caress YES, then the book ends 10 pages later). Was expecting something worse or more generic sci-fi-y given it's not a Culture novel, but it was a fun romp with more zany Banks aliens.
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Feb 9, 2011 01:28
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General Battuta posted:Huh, that's a clever find. The central premise of Surface Detail is so brilliant I'm not surprised he'd been thinking about it or something related ahead of time. Use of Weapons is probably the best culture novel.
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Feb 9, 2011 02:22
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Pompous Rhombus posted:Just finished The Business. I liked the main character and the book had a really interesting premise, but overall Banks kind of squandered it. I mean seriously getting some super-rich dude to reveal his part in a huge conspiracy by locking him out of his new Ferrari and over-revving the engine? The Business was about a culture like organisation on earth. The big bosses were like the minds etc. Also I think that the name the business was also a play on "Do you want the business?" an offer from prostitutes to trade. That was what was being asked of the main character in marrying that member of royalty.
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Feb 10, 2011 16:00
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andrew smash posted:Use of Weapons is probably the best culture novel.
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Feb 11, 2011 17:41
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gvibes posted:Probably my favorite Banks novel period. I would agree but I REALLY liked The Algebraist. I think Use of Weapons is definitely the technically better book but Algebraist was really fun. Actually I have the same opinion of Consider Phlebas, I guess I just like space romps.
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Feb 11, 2011 18:38
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andrew smash posted:Actually I have the same opinion of Consider Phlebas, I guess I just like space romps. Any time I look at my copy, I feel bad, because it's got that  shuttle the Culture sent to ferry off those cultists right on the cover. Poor, stupid shuttle. 
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Feb 11, 2011 21:25
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The Dark One posted:Any time I look at my copy, I feel bad, because it's got that Yeah, it was so chatty and helpful to him as well
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Feb 11, 2011 22:22
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