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Cichlid the Loach posted:Actually my excuse is the Turks. One five-minute Turks scene is enough to buy me off for the next twenty minutes of silver-haired dudes sword fighting. Yeah it's pretty much just like Square writers to get the comic relief characters 100% spot on but have the serious characters suck.
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Nov 13, 2010 14:25
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21stCentury posted:Also, "Ed Kann" or no, the concept art for Secret of Evermore is much darker than the writing. Never mind how it looked when it came out, urban legend or no, there's definitely something going on. Most likely, they were told to tone down the dark poo poo early in development and they basically just toned down the story. Concept art and actually story are rarely done by the same guy you know. Betcha anything the dude doing the writing had stuff pretty much the same as the final plot but the guy doing the concept art wanted to make everything dark and poo poo.
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Nov 13, 2010 17:53
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Lone Rogue posted:I wouldn't be surprised if around the same time they were told to get their asses moving on finishing the game, they were also told to tone down the dark themes. yeah pretty much that, I bet they were going for a much much more complex story and ran out of time and shipped a goofy story and a half finished game.
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Nov 13, 2010 18:24
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Cichlid the Loach posted:Yeah, and this is interesting, but what I was saying is that it's not as if they were making the game in story order... Probably. Early/late in game order doesn't necessarily map to early/late in the development process. Or maybe it does in this case, I dunno. There really is no sane reason games have to be made in order, but it's odd how often it's obvious that they are. Like nearly every game with a rushed development cycle has the last levels and the ending being the part that suffers, and games that changed a lot over development it's always most obvious from the first levels.
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Nov 13, 2010 18:32
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What? Of COURSE you should make games in order! The beginning is the part everybody sees, you want to start with that. Put your best foot forward. Now you have a solid foundation for the art and gameplay to follow. People are going to quit along the way while they're playing. That is a fact. Outside of weird optional sidequests, fewer people see the ending than any other part. If development stalls and the ending has to be rushed, so be it. It's less of a loss.
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Nov 13, 2010 18:55
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Awesome troll, bro. Tell us more about your game dev experiences.
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Nov 13, 2010 23:05
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How is that a troll? Seems pretty accurate to me.
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Nov 13, 2010 23:07
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RandomFerret posted:What? Of COURSE you should make games in order! The beginning is the part everybody sees, you want to start with that. Put your best foot forward. Now you have a solid foundation for the art and gameplay to follow. I always wondered why I never really played a game that had a lovely opening but a fantastic closing. What you said makes sense, seems like a waste of resources to put your best foot forward at the end when most of your customers and reviewers won't see it. Still love KotOR 2.
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Nov 14, 2010 01:00
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Crazy Achmed posted:I played the hell out of this game when I was little, and it's still one of my favourites now. Did you ever notice that when you use the password you mentioned, there are a bunch of hidden doors in the town that lead directly to each of the game's bosses? If I recall correctly, there are a couple of them in the tower near other doors, and one on the floating platforms leading to the door in the sky that goes to the desert. Wow, that is pretty drat cool! Now that I think about it, I do remember the password altering the game itself; I did use those doors in town. I remember figuring out that password early on while playing... so I don't have a good comparison for how the "normal" game played. I still think it's one of the best game cheats ever. For me the game turned from "Dammit, I'm tired of being mouse man stuck in this maze", into "Hmm... do I want to fly as bird man for a while, or explore as piranha man?" I think the side scrolling exploration in that game rivals games like Metroid. It was so refreshing to play a game that didn't have annoying bottomless pits. Falling just took you to whole new worlds. Nice to know someone else played it; I figured it was pretty obscure. Most gamers I talk to don't know what the heck the Master System is.
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Nov 14, 2010 01:57
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Rakanakle posted:I always wondered why I never really played a game that had a lovely opening but a fantastic closing. Tales of the Abyss has, in my opinion, a pretty meh start but a great ending.
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Nov 14, 2010 02:16
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Rakanakle posted:I always wondered why I never really played a game that had a lovely opening but a fantastic closing. What you said makes sense, seems like a waste of resources to put your best foot forward at the end when most of your customers and reviewers won't see it. Makes sense to me. However, I will say Square-enix has been good about this. Say what you will about your preferences, they put effort into their pretty CGI endings as much as their flashy beginnings.
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Nov 14, 2010 02:23
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Mister Roboto posted:However, I will say Square-enix has been good about this. Say what you will about your preferences, they put effort into their pretty CGI endings as much as their flashy beginnings. It's the middle that you've gotta watch out for. The middle of FFXII is so terrible that I have a running theory that nobody ever actually beat it. I know I gave up around where you could accidentally stumble across Exodus.
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Nov 14, 2010 02:33
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Rakanakle posted:I always wondered why I never really played a game that had a lovely opening but a fantastic closing. What you said makes sense, seems like a waste of resources to put your best foot forward at the end when most of your customers and reviewers won't see it. Alpha Protocol.
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Nov 14, 2010 02:48
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Brutal Legend... Oh, wait, the beginning of Brutal Legend was actually a completely unrelated game... And the game most people thought they were getting.
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Nov 14, 2010 03:44
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Semi-related to this, which was posted earlier: I'm not sure if this is a hoax or a glitch or just a weird bit of YouTube compression or what, Minecraft's art style is so blocky anyways that it's hard to tell.
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Nov 14, 2010 03:48
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...of SCIENCE! posted:Semi-related to this, which was posted earlier: I'm not sure if this is a hoax or a glitch or just a weird bit of YouTube compression or what, Minecraft's art style is so blocky anyways that it's hard to tell. Screamers aren't clever. 
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Nov 14, 2010 04:04
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Cleretic posted:I know I gave up around where you could accidentally stumble across Exodus. What I want to know is why you didn't have Berserk, Haste, and the Zodiac Spear by that point, mister  Seriously, that thing dragged so drat much that cheesing the gently caress out of everything was pretty much the only way that I was able to stomach playing through the entire thing. I don't know if this is a hoax or was proven or what, but doesn't FFXII International have that crossbow without a field graphic that has a really small chance of spawning in an invisible chest in Rabanastre?
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Nov 14, 2010 04:06
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Rakanakle posted:I always wondered why I never really played a game that had a lovely opening but a fantastic closing. What you said makes sense, seems like a waste of resources to put your best foot forward at the end when most of your customers and reviewers won't see it. KOTOR 1 had a lovely beginning much better ending. KOTOR2's beginning was terrible too. RPGs suffer from terrible intro syndrome on the whole though, and I never have found a good reason why, although I'm sure it exists. And actually the GoW2 devs said they often do the intro last. They have an idea the direction they want to go but hold off actually finalizing it till the end. The reason is you want to engross the player to play your game so a strong opening is best. So you want to have it late in development when everyone knows what their game is going to "be" and have worked together for a few months now.
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Nov 14, 2010 05:19
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21stCentury posted:Brutal Legend...
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Nov 14, 2010 05:29
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RagnarokAngel posted:And actually the GoW2 devs said they often do the intro last. They have an idea the direction they want to go but hold off actually finalizing it till the end. The reason is you want to engross the player to play your game so a strong opening is best. So you want to have it late in development when everyone knows what their game is going to "be" and have worked together for a few months now. Which GoW2 are you talking about?
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Nov 14, 2010 07:22
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RagnarokAngel posted:KOTOR 1 had a lovely beginning much better ending. KOTOR2's beginning was terrible too. RPGs suffer from terrible intro syndrome on the whole though, and I never have found a good reason why, although I'm sure it exists. I swear I am the only person on Earth who liked Taris.
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Nov 14, 2010 07:24
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I swear I am the only person on Earth who liked Taris. Better than Peragus though.
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Nov 14, 2010 07:25
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AmbassadorFriendly posted:Which GoW2 are you talking about? God of War 2, sorry. Hence the kick rear end colossus fight the game is so famous for.
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Nov 14, 2010 07:52
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Something I was positive was a hoax that actually turned out to be real: The Call of Duty: WaW Raygun. Apparently jumping in three puddles in a specific sequence in one part of a map in the campaign will make the ground shake and cause an ominous booming voice to be heard, followed by a pedestal surrounded by several shisa (some kind Japanese mythological dog-lion thing) statues to spring from the ground. On that pedestal is an honest-to-god raygun. How the hell do you even find something like this on accident? I wish I could have seen the face of the first guy that discovered this, he must have had a conniption. Also, I didn't think the secret hadoken move in Megaman X was real until YEARS after the fact. Turns out my friends in middle school weren't full of poo poo after all. Horns fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Nov 14, 2010 |
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Nov 14, 2010 12:08
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Horns posted:Something I was positive was a hoax that actually turned out to be real: The Call of Duty: WaW Raygun. If I remember right this was pointed out earlier linking to the Easter Egg thread. There, one of the goon devs explained the inclusion of the Raygun (I think he also mentioned that it almost didn't make it into the game and some people were a little creeped out by the statues) and hinted at the possibility of more cool things in the game that haven't been found. Also in Megaman X the hadoken move was found in a capsule in one of the game's many bottomless pits towards the last few levels of the game. That was pretty mean of them.
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Nov 14, 2010 13:53
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Mayor McCheese posted:
The Hadouken was at the top of a cliff face in Armored Armadillo's stage and while out of the way wouldn't have lead to death in the slightest if you just went up there to look. The Shoryuken was at the bottom of a pit in X2 (or was that the gold armour in X3?) E: Yeah, well, technically that's a thing. The location where you actually find it though still isn't at the bottom of a pit, whereas there are two that actually are. VVVVVVVVV cobalt impurity fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Nov 14, 2010 |
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Nov 14, 2010 13:59
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cobalt impurity posted:The Hadouken was at the top of a cliff face in Armored Armadillo's stage and while out of the way wouldn't have lead to death in the slightest if you just went up there to look. The Shoryuken was at the bottom of a pit in X2 (or was that the gold armour in X3?) You have to suicide into the pit several times to cause the Hadouken capsule to appear. Maybe he means that?
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Nov 14, 2010 14:01
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Endorph posted:It's an OK level but a really loving terrible opening. I liked Taris because you're not "special" yet, you're just a jerkoff Republic soldier hiding out in a shanty apartment with some other, whinier soldier who has trust issues, fuckin' up gangs and racin' swoops. I actually liked Peragus too, but it suffers from "puzzle" syndrome, since after you've played it once you've solved the mystery and then it just becomes a speed-run.
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Nov 14, 2010 14:32
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RagnarokAngel posted:KOTOR 1 had a lovely beginning much better ending. KOTOR2's beginning was terrible too. RPGs suffer from terrible intro syndrome on the whole though, and I never have found a good reason why, although I'm sure it exists. I always assumed it was because the beginning part of RPGs is where they need to
This is evident in that some people claim that the Tutorial in FFXIII is 9 chapters long, because that's when you get a large area to faff around in. Add in the fact that, on top of not letting you go everywhere, they often don't give you access to everything in battle until the mid-point. Which makes sense because more often than not, you start weak and end up strong. it's hard to show off that growth when you start with every good spell and technique and whatnot. It's just something RPGs have to do. If you don't have a good combat tutorial, you'll end up losing more players because they don't understand the battle mechanics. if they hold your hand too much, players will bitch and moan about it. Game design is about striking a balance, really.
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Nov 14, 2010 15:28
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Cichlid the Loach posted:I am not necessarily dismissing this line of speculation, but you guys do realize that that guy's blog post that kicked off this whole discussion was made up, right? Honestly, it simply fed a nagging feeling that thousands of people who played Secret of Evermore had. Cichlid the Loach posted:E: Plus I have that soundtrack CD, and no track is over like 2 minutes long? I just remember the GamePlayers article. I don't have it anymore of course since it was from 1995 but I remember them bragging about the Market music not looping after a ridiculous amount of time. It's good to know it was a preview, not a review. They were talking to the developers when the game was still a few months before release. Maybe they cut it down for the Soundtrack?
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Nov 14, 2010 19:22
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Super Mario Bros 3 One of the best-selling games of all time had to have its share of 'rumors.' I remember a guy telling me how his uncle popped the game in, and entered a code at the start screen. This code enabled a world select screen, and he started with an inventory full of items. Of course, the uncle refused to tell him the code.  Imagine my surprise when just last year I find out the Game Genie code KKKZSPIU does not just that, but allows you to cycle powerups with the select button. You could even toggle the goomba shoe on/off in every level! Now that I'm convinced there was something to the story I heard so long ago, how can it be that there is no way to trigger this supposed debug mode without a Game Genie?
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Nov 14, 2010 22:22
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Strontium posted:Super Mario Bros 3 Not a hoax, but as a kid I was playing Super Mario Bros 3 and a man from the cable company was in our house installing cable. He sees me playing (I was on the desert world) and goes "Hey kid, check this out" and, after I gave him the controller, uses the hammer on the block on the overworld to open the hidden pathway. Seeing a grown adult so knowledgeable about videogames was the coolest thing ever at that age, the shortcut he unlocked was second.
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Nov 14, 2010 23:12
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Mister Roboto posted:You have to suicide into the pit several times to cause the Hadouken capsule to appear. Maybe he means that? You totally don't. Go through to Armadillo's boss area and you teleport out. Has the same effect as jumping in the pit only without the loss of lives.
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Nov 15, 2010 19:17
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Here's the Hadouken in action and how to get it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S_hflJUDTc&feature=related
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Nov 15, 2010 19:29
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Animal Crossing Wild World There were some rumors floating around the gameFAQS message boards at the time that there was a secret rare fish. It was huge, only showed up in the ocean, and would run away the second you see it. I thought it was the typical dumb rumors, but I swear I've seen it on a random playthrough a couple of weeks ago. Can anyone confirm this? Apparently it was a whale.
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Nov 16, 2010 05:41
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Strontium posted:Super Mario Bros 3 God, now I just want to play Mario 3 where I can use Kuribo's Shoe in every level instead of just one. 
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Nov 16, 2010 05:46
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Metroixer posted:Animal Crossing Wild World This reminds me. In the original Animal Crossing there is data for Legend of Zelda as an NES game you could get for your house. As far as I know there weren't any rumors about how to get it, but it was rumored that there was some kind of enhanced graphics CDi version in the game as well. As far as I've seen this is false and no such game exists, aside from a completely different top down perspective Zelda game for the CDi.
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Nov 16, 2010 05:56
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Jibo posted:This reminds me. In the original Animal Crossing there is data for Legend of Zelda as an NES game you could get for your house. As far as I know there weren't any rumors about how to get it, but it was rumored that there was some kind of enhanced graphics CDi version in the game as well. As far as I've seen this is false and no such game exists, aside from a completely different top down perspective Zelda game for the CDi. The original was gotten through a contest, and hackers later found the in game code to unlock it. Never heard the CDi version rumor though.
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Nov 16, 2010 06:03
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Metroixer posted:Animal Crossing Wild World It's in the original Animal Crossing, actually. Occasionally a huge fish shadow can be seen when traveling to the GBA-Link Island. It's not as dark as the regular fish shadows and it doesn't move or anything. It's pretty much there to make the player do a double-take.
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Nov 16, 2010 06:05
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Jibo posted:This reminds me. In the original Animal Crossing there is data for Legend of Zelda as an NES game you could get for your house. As far as I know there weren't any rumors about how to get it, but it was rumored that there was some kind of enhanced graphics CDi version in the game as well. As far as I've seen this is false and no such game exists, aside from a completely different top down perspective Zelda game for the CDi. The closest thing to something like that might be BS Zelda, which was played using the Japan-only SNES Satellaview accessory.
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Nov 16, 2010 06:07
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