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Don't read A Song of Ice and Fire. Trust me. It's just not worth it.
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Nov 15, 2010 10:37
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Can we just not talk about Martin in the Joe Abercrombie thread? There are already two active threads for the guy and his work.
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Nov 15, 2010 14:37
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A Nice Boy posted:I assume you've read Martin's Song of Ice and Fire? Probably a stupid question, but they're pretty close in terms of themes and how loving dark they are. I've read them, Ambercrombie is in my opinion of reading fantasy completely different than Martin. I just don't make the comparison. The best comparison to make to Ambercrombie is actually Moorecock's Elric of Melnibourne. Its dark fantasy where everyone even the good guys get hosed over.
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Nov 15, 2010 16:21
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Hollis posted:The closest I can even say in theme is Bakker's Prince of Nothing series. That's not even close though really.
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Nov 15, 2010 17:01
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Have any of you guys read The Steel Remains by Richard K. Morgan? It's pretty dark, too.
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Nov 15, 2010 19:53
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Have any of you guys read The Steel Remains by Richard K. Morgan? It's pretty dark, too. I tried, but couldn't get terribly far into it. Couldn't find a single character to empathize with, and the juvenile dialog gave me loving headaches.
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Nov 16, 2010 03:42
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SammyWhereAreYou posted:In case anyone's interested, here's a panel from this past weekend with Joe Abercrombie, Brandon Sanderson, Jim Butcher, Peter V. Brett, Deborah Harkness, and Naomi Novik: Wow, Sanderson is a complete dork, and a microphone hog too. No one wants to hear you talk that long.
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Nov 16, 2010 03:45
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Algid posted:Yeah, they're not close at all as far as the style or even the content of the story. The two similarities I can think of are that nearly everyone's hosed at the end, and they both have two of the best barbarian characters I've read. I'd say Abercrombie and Bakker are almost polar opposites when it comes to style. Abercrombie is all about giving the minimum amount of detail necessary to drive the story forward, while Bakker piles on so much unnecessary detail that it actually detracts from the story.
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Nov 16, 2010 04:48
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I think David Gemmell is a good author to try out if you liked Abercrombie. It's not nearly as dark, but his overall tone tends to be set nearly the same. He has his downfalls (mostly him being dead now  ) but all in all I really enjoyed his writing. There isn't a book he wrote that isn't on my shelf.
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Nov 16, 2010 07:02
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Greenlit posted:I tried, but couldn't get terribly far into it. Couldn't find a single character to empathize with, and the juvenile dialog gave me loving headaches. It's not bad at all in my opinion, but it's quite a bit below his Takeshi Kovacs stuff. He tries a bit too hard to subvert the genre conventions and it shows. It seems a bit forced at times, which is too bad, because the premise is quite good. I like it overall, but it's not a "would sacrifice my firstborn to get an ARC" like Abercrombie, Erikson, Butcher or Bakker (or even his Takeshi Kovacs books) for me. I always found Glen Cook's Black Company as something people who enjoyed Abercrombie (and Bakker, Erikson and similars) like when I suggest it. Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun too, although it's quite a bit different in style and theme. Decius fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Nov 16, 2010 |
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Nov 16, 2010 13:27
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Decius posted:It's not bad at all in my opinion, but it's quite a bit below his Takeshi Kovacs stuff. He tries a bit too hard to subvert the genre conventions and it shows. It seems a bit forced at times, which is too bad, because the premise is quite good. I like it overall, but it's not a "would sacrifice my firstborn to get an ARC" like Abercrombie, Erikson, Butcher or Bakker (or even his Takeshi Kovacs books) for me. I dug it, but I'd be hard-pressed to deny the charge of juvenile dialogue. "Look, son, maybe you could just be gay without sleeping with everyone in town?" "Why, dad, can't you deal with it? GAWD!"
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Nov 16, 2010 21:53
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anathenema posted:I dug it, but I'd be hard-pressed to deny the charge of juvenile dialogue. Didn't his Dad have his lover slowly and publicly impaled through the rectum in the city square? I didn't think it was just juvenile bitchery.
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Nov 16, 2010 22:37
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Bizob posted:Didn't his Dad have his lover slowly and publicly impaled through the rectum in the city square? I didn't think it was just juvenile bitchery. I can't even remember that part. That might say something about me more than the writing. Someone else pointed out that it fell into the common fantasy trap of too much information, such as when the Dragonslayer was going to ram a bunch of ghouls with his lance and took awhile to stop and think about the history of it.
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Nov 16, 2010 23:37
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Bizob posted:Didn't his Dad have his lover slowly and publicly impaled through the rectum in the city square? I didn't think it was just juvenile bitchery.
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Nov 17, 2010 05:27
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savinhill posted:Actually I think his father saved him from suffering the same fate as his lover, it was either the church or state that killed his lover. I think he was mad at the father because the father couldn't save his peasant lover. His father forced him to watch it. I think that would be enough to justify whatever opinion he had of him. I got the impression that his father had enough political sway to stop it from happening, or at least cover it up, but wanted to teach his son a lesson.
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Nov 17, 2010 06:48
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Algid posted:Yeah, they're not close at all as far as the style or even the content of the story. The two similarities I can think of are that nearly everyone's hosed at the end, and they both have two of the best barbarian characters I've read. Cnaiur could take Logan  .Then he'd go and gently caress a hole in the ground or headbutt someone to death or something. That dude was just awesomely nuts.
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Nov 17, 2010 23:39
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Melche posted:headbutt someone to death or something. That dude was just awesomely nuts. Thats actually more along the Bloody Nine's style of doing things.
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Nov 18, 2010 01:13
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I wonder if he's still alive.... Has Abercrombie said anything about Logan's fate? It would be totally awesome if he showed up in Heroes or in any subsequent books.
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Nov 18, 2010 01:17
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However much I'd like to see Logan return, I'd think it be best if he just left it at that. Maybe include a few rumours, but I like how Logan's story ended how it started. In a few years, if his idea's dry out and he starts jumping the shark, we could see a return but I don't think that'll happen.
hemale in pain fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Nov 18, 2010 |
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Nov 18, 2010 01:28
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NoneSuch posted:However much I'd like to see Logan return, I'd think it be best if he just left it at that. Maybe include a few rumours, but I like how Logan's story ended how it started. In a few years, if his idea's dry out and he starts jumping the shark, we could see a return but I don't think that'll happen.
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Nov 18, 2010 01:41
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savinhill posted:If he did return I'd rather it be in a book set somewhere besides the North. I wouldn't mind if he had an adventure in the South with Ferro and he could still have his story arc concerning the North ending the same way it began. yeah I was kinda hoping for some more awkward Ferro/Logan relationship stuff, too.
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Nov 18, 2010 01:42
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Meh, it was a few fucks. I can't imagine either of them caring enough to bother looking for one another. I just personally didn't like Ferro, so my opinion might be skewed a little. I found her heritage to be a bit out of place, and I fear that now she has Super powers She'll be even more of a boring character. I really liked the odd Eater perspective from Best Served Cold, but I don't think I could handle a person with those sort of abilities who's only driving goal was revenge for very long
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Nov 18, 2010 06:05
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There's only one character we need to know more about, immediately. I want Shenkt, Shenkt, and more Shenkt.
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Nov 18, 2010 07:44
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:I think David Gemmell is a good author to try out if you liked Abercrombie. It's not nearly as dark, but his overall tone tends to be set nearly the same. He has his downfalls (mostly him being dead now Shortcomings, not downfalls. Otherwise I thoroughly endorse this post. Mostly, Gemmell rocks. Beefeater1980 fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Dec 1, 2010 |
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Dec 1, 2010 17:36
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:I think David Gemmell is a good author to try out if you liked Abercrombie. It's not nearly as dark, but his overall tone tends to be set nearly the same. He has his downfalls (mostly him being dead now Read his books you mooks. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3369312
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Dec 1, 2010 21:47
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I read that Best Served Cold is a standalone novel and thus it could be read before the First Law trilogy. I grabbed it first and began reading, and while it's entertaining, I'm not drawn to Monza as a character at all. I'm about 60% through and I'm left wondering why Monza is such a twat through the whole book. I get the obvious need for revenge against those directly involved in her brother's murder, but why is she also hellbent on murdering Mauthis and Foscar? They weren't directly involved, and IIRC, Foscar leaves in disgust when he realizes what is going to happen. Is she involved in the First Law books and thus more fleshed out as a character? I'm not rooting for her whatsoever and just assume that through all the treachery/setbacks, she'll make it through in the end. I guess what I'm saying is that even though I find the book entertaining, I don't really care for any of the characters. Sorry if this has been discussed, I skimmed the thread a bit but didn't want to spoil anything from the trilogy.
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Dec 2, 2010 01:48
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BSC is almost entirely about hers and Shivers' character growth. I guess it's a minor character spoiler to say she's not a twat through the whole book. In fact, you can almost say the story of the book is her descent into twat-dom and then coming back out of it (and the opposite for Shivers).. Monza does not appear in the First Law trilogy at all (as far as I recall. If she did, it was such a tiny cameo so as to be not worth mentioning). Shivers and Cosca do, but they're very minor characters.
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Dec 2, 2010 02:00
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She's not in the trilogy at all. I think the idea is that she wants to kill everyone either directly or indirectly involved in the death of her brother. Foscar and Mauthis didn't kill him but they didn't do anything to warn her or stop his death.
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Dec 2, 2010 02:00
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The Ninth Layer posted:She's not in the trilogy at all. I think the idea is that she wants to kill everyone either directly or indirectly involved in the death of her brother. Foscar and Mauthis didn't kill him but they didn't do anything to warn her or stop his death. If I recall, Nicomo does speak about her briefly in the trilogy.
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Dec 2, 2010 02:06
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The Ninth Layer posted:She's not in the trilogy at all. I think the idea is that she wants to kill everyone either directly or indirectly involved in the death of her brother. Foscar and Mauthis didn't kill him but they didn't do anything to warn her or stop his death. Yeah I understand to an extent, but its not like she grapples much with the fact that she considered Foscar to be a good man and unlike his father/brother. Basically, she doesn't struggle internally at all about killing him, just that he was in the room at one point = DEATH. It's just kinda meh IMO. Glad to see that I am in for some more development though after all, since I couldn't avoid reading the minor spoiler above.
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Dec 2, 2010 02:06
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Yeah, go ahead and finish the book. There are events in it relating to Foscar in particular that directly address the criticism you're bringing up.
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Dec 2, 2010 02:07
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My name is Nicomo Cosca, famed soldier of fortune, and I am here for dinner. I really can't believe he's gone, he was one of my favorites. Also how is Shivers essentially not the Bloody Nine now? He goes into crazy laughing and killing fits and apparently has some kind of superhuman strength. Oh well. I literally gasped and had to re-read the section where he got stabbed a couple of times, to be sure that it was really happening. Also that bit with Friendly when they were leaving was surprisingly touching. I wanted him to make it through more than anyone else, and use all that money on a nice long drinking binge. I hope they have whiskey in hell
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Dec 9, 2010 08:09
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PopetasticPerson posted:My name is Nicomo Cosca, famed soldier of fortune, and I am here for dinner. I don't know how to say this without spoiling something, but keep reading, man  .edit: and don't get too attached to Shivers because he tries to betray Murcatto and it's less satisfying than you might think. Grand Prize Winner fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Dec 9, 2010 |
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Dec 9, 2010 22:33
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I'm glad Bremer dan Gorst is getting a central role in Heroes. It's one of my favorite things about Abercrombie, how he weaves his characters throughout his disparate stories.
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Dec 13, 2010 08:45
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DangerDummy! posted:I'm glad Bremer dan Gorst is getting a central role in Heroes. It's one of my favorite things about Abercrombie, how he weaves his characters throughout his disparate stories. That's one of my favourite things about his books too. He takes a different approach than, say, Steven Erikson, who leaves plot threads dangling so you're often left thinking "I bet that character is going to show up again." With Abercrombie it's more like "Oh, that guy is in this book too? Cool!"
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Dec 14, 2010 00:18
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Reading through Best Served Cold. My dad handed the book to me when I was reading Monster Hunter: Vendetta, a series about folktale monsters actually existing in the modern day and a freelance company that hunts with guns (with painstakingly detailed descriptions of said guns) for money. So when I started into BSC I was expecting something a bit more modern (it didn't help I have the trade paperback edition from Orbit that has cover art dominated by the title of the book and I chose to ignore the endorsements on the back page that mentioned "Joe Abercrombie" and "fantasy" in the same sentences), but wound up pleasantly surprised, enough to put the other book down. People in the thread who have drawn comparisons to David Gemmell's writing in regards to tone are pretty spot on - however, I've found Abercrombie's writing is a bit more nuanced, the humor much darker, and the characters much more rounded (basically better in every respect that matters to me) I've really enjoyed the bit I've read so far, and would even recommend it to anyone looking for a less-than-epic but still enjoyable, character driven fantasy novel, even if Monza is unlikable for stretches (Shivers, Friendly, and Cosca more than make up for it).
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Dec 14, 2010 08:20
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you must be joking posted:I read that Best Served Cold is a standalone novel and thus it could be read before the First Law trilogy. BSC takes place after the first law trilogy while you could read it first, there would be some mentions from characters and talks about battles and politics that would make no sense to you. I wouldn't rate his books based off of BSC, while it was a good book, it seemed like he had a bit of trouble helping readers connect with Monza. I think Monza is one of his weakest characters in any of his books. I found myself hoping every chapter was based off of the supporting characters. I think Abercrombie is just way better writing from a male perspective. The First Law Trilogy is leaps and bounds better, it does get off to a bit of a slow start but gains more and more momentum until the end.
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Dec 14, 2010 09:32
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I mentioned it in this thread a few months ago, but I read Best Served Cold first. The weirdest thing was that it was a fairly realistic, straight forward fantasy story until a magic element was introduced with Shenkt. It was almost like a From Dusk 'Til Dawn swerve out of nowhere. Then, reading First Law right afterwards, it was miracles all up in this bitch. While it was kinda neat reading the trilogy as a prequel, I'm kicking myself a bit for not reading it in the proper order. As to whether Best Served Cold is a good stand alone novel, I loved the hell out of it enough to pick up the rest of the books and I had no problem following the story.
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Dec 14, 2010 09:43
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I'm getting the vibe that he is a fan favorite around here but I'm not a big fan of Shenkt. I haven't read it in a while but he just struck me as a "super powered, totally awesome killer who never fucks up and has no flaws" type of character, which seems to go against every other character that Abercrombie creates.
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Dec 15, 2010 04:44
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Hughmoris posted:I'm getting the vibe that he is a fan favorite around here but I'm not a big fan of Shenkt. I haven't read it in a while but he just struck me as a "super powered, totally awesome killer who never fucks up and has no flaws" type of character, which seems to go against every other character that Abercrombie creates. I don't think that's entirely true. The thing is, in the First Law Trilogy, there were several wizards and it balanced out...Good and bad loving each other up. In BSC, however, he's the only character with any sort of magical power, so he just SEEMS like an unstoppable badass to those around him. But drop any one of many characters from the First Law in there and suddenly he's not so special. Keeping in mind that there are other magical badasses in the world makes Shenkt much more grounded in that sense.
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Dec 15, 2010 07:05
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