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Karandras posted:Why all the Zendikar hate? I heard about Tom Martell's 49 game losing SoM streak and was discussing it on Twitter and he says that even SoM isn't as bad as Zendikar Welp I kept a two land hand and didn't draw my third until turn 4, hope I have time for a new draft!
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Jan 6, 2011 03:20
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Karandras posted:Why all the Zendikar hate? I heard about Tom Martell's 49 game losing SoM streak and was discussing it on Twitter and he says that even SoM isn't as bad as Zendikar oh my opponent went first and played a Plated Geopede T2 okay gg
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Jan 6, 2011 11:47
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I like ZZW v v I think it's a much better draft format than SOM. It suffers from having a dominant archetype (r/b), but there are plenty of options.
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Jan 6, 2011 12:05
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Ashenai posted:oh my opponent went first and played a Plated Geopede T2 okay gg disfigure/burst/a dozen other cards. Zendikar was a format entirely about bears and blowouts, though. I still prefer it to SOM, though, although I've played more/done better in SOM sealed at PTQs, I did a lot of zzw drafting. ROE is the best format I've played since I got back into magic at Reborn, and I think ACR was the second best. If I was going to rank them, it would be ROE, ACR, then a step down to ZZW, M11, SOM, and then another step down to M10.
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Jan 6, 2011 19:02
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I have a question about draft conventions: do I get to keep the deck I built from the draft? How do the payouts work? From what I understand, everyone pays $12, you build a deck, and the shop pays 8 fresh, unopened packs to the winner and 4 to second place (or 4-3-2 payout, whatever). You get to keep your deck regardless if you win or not. That sounds super generous, do I have that right?
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Jan 6, 2011 20:28
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Sigma-X posted:disfigure/burst/a dozen other cards. SoM is about 5% more infect-ish or a 2/2 for 2 vector-asp away from being a decent format. ZZW was a wreckage and I hope you mulliganed aggressively to get those answer cards because otherwise you just lose, enjoy your coinflips! I'll just sit here being right and you'll be over there, being wrong. Since Lorwyn it goes: ROE, ShaEven, LorMorn, SoM, ACR, M11, ZZW, M10 quote:I have a question about draft conventions: do I get to keep the deck I built from the draft? How do the payouts work? From what I understand, everyone pays $12, you build a deck, and the shop pays 8 fresh, unopened packs to the winner and 4 to second place (or 4-3-2 payout, whatever). You get to keep your deck regardless if you win or not. That sounds super generous, do I have that right? In order: Keep your deck. Payouts normally work by accumulated record with a SoS tiebreaker if you have a weird pod. Depends on the shop how large the payouts are or how cheap the draft is. 3 opened packs, especially draft decks, aren't worth even $6 most of the time.
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Jan 6, 2011 20:44
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areyoucontagious posted:I have a question about draft conventions: do I get to keep the deck I built from the draft? How do the payouts work? From what I understand, everyone pays $12, you build a deck, and the shop pays 8 fresh, unopened packs to the winner and 4 to second place (or 4-3-2 payout, whatever). You get to keep your deck regardless if you win or not. That sounds super generous, do I have that right? The 8-4/4-3-2-2/Swiss payouts people talk about are on MTGO. Different shops will do prizes differently - back when I first started playing we'd have 30 man FNM drafts and top 2 would have prizes (but it was a $4 per entrant prize pool split 3-1). The shop I play at now used to do rare re-drafts, and currently splits a prize pool among top 4, with each entrant putting a pack in. Typically you keep your cards, unless you've got a place that does rare re-drafting at the end, in which case you won't keep your rares and sometimes foils based on how they do it.
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Jan 6, 2011 21:54
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Gerund posted:SoM is about 5% more infect-ish or a 2/2 for 2 vector-asp away from being a decent format. If Besieged just gives us more infect creatures and better removal, then drafting this block will end up pretty fun. As it is, I feel as if once people got a decent handle on Scars, it became primarily about who opened better bombs. Rise had not only more archetype variety, but also less aggressively-costed deal-or-die cards (only Gideon and Drana come to mind), as well as legitimate good and bad matchups between draft decks. Cards like Thopter Foundry, Glissa, Hero of Bladehold, and the two knights make me think that the format'll be more of the same, though printing good removal for high-end threats will go a long way towards making the format more entertaining to play. As it is, it is almost impossible to deal with cards like Wurmcoil Engine, Elspeth, Skithiryx, Carnifex Demon, Hoard-Smelter Dragon, Quicksilver Gargantuan, Liege of the Tangle, etc. etc. while maintaining card parity (short of an Arrest), and that's... not fun.
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Jan 6, 2011 22:13
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The best thing about Drana ( ) was taking someone by surprise with it in constructed. When I blocked his Colonnade with it, he got really confused, then let out a "Holy poo poo, Drana's a flyer!?"He said he had no idea, cause when he'd see it in limited, someone would end up either immediately scooping or killing it.
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Jan 6, 2011 23:57
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tonight I played my first SoM draft in a month and the last one until Besieged, and I lucked into poisonnutz.dec after white and blue were overdrafted at the table. Creatures (17): 1x Ichorclaw Myr 1x Fume Spitter 1x Plague Stinger 2x Ichor Rats 1x Hand of the Praetors (got this passed to me P3P2) 1x Blackcleave Goblin 1x Skinrender 4x Blight Mamba 2x Cystbearer 1x Tangle Angler 2x Acid Web Spider Artifacts (3): 1x Accorder's Shield 1x Darksteel Axe 1x Trigon of Infestation Spells (3): 3x Grasp of Darkness Lands (17): 10x Swamp 7x Forest Sideboard cards: 2x Wing Puncture 1x Ezuri's Archers 1x Tel-Jilad Defiance I really enjoyed this deck because while it did occasionally blow someone out in 5 turns, it played better during wars of attrition, grinding card advantage and accumulating poison counters one-by-one via a number of different ways (Blight Mamba regeneration, Accorder's Shield, Tangle Angler, Trigon of Infestation), then winning off of an attack that pushes through two poison. While I was doing this, Acid Web Spider beat or blocked every non-rare creature that crossed the table. Closest match was when I almost got proliferated to death off a Contagion Engine by my own Ichor Rats, but Blackcleave Goblin pushed in for surprise lethal while I was at 9. During the draft I had the opportunity to take infect deck staples early in each pack (Untamed Might, Corpse Cur, etc.) but there was always a Grasp or a Spider to grab in the same one. I went 4-0 and placed first out of fourteen. In a real-life sanctioned swiss event! I've been taking 'roids since the prerelease 
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Jan 7, 2011 08:55
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hemorrhoids. from top 4'ing every event in my city since.
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Jan 7, 2011 08:56
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So now that we have our own thread and everything, is there any interest in organizing a goon league?
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Jan 7, 2011 21:50
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Karandras posted:Why all the Zendikar hate? I heard about Tom Martell's 49 game losing SoM streak and was discussing it on Twitter and he says that even SoM isn't as bad as Zendikar The format is full of evasive 2-power creatures for 2 mana. Because of Landfall, other creatures are made to attack well and block not well. Cards like Adventuring Gear make attacking creatures larger than even the few defensive, evasion- stopping creatures that exist. A format in which stabilizing is nearly impossible is not a fun format.
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Jan 8, 2011 03:36
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They also totally hosed up the colour balance, more than any other set I've seen. The colours with the best removal were also the colours with the best creatures, and there was little reason to play the bad colours. If Red was open, not only did you get Burst Lightning and Torch Slinger and Inferno Trap and Magma Rift and Punishing Fire and Spire Barrage, you also got Plated Geopede and Bladetusk Boar, and a bunch of other two drops that attacked for two. If Black was open, you got Hideous End and Disfigure and Feast of Blood and Gatekeeper of Malakir and Heartstabber Mosquito and Marsh Casualties, and also Surrakar Marauder and Vampire Hexmage and Vampire Nighthawk and Vampire Lacerator. Blue had one good two-drop, Welkin Tern, and couldn't deal with opposing creatures at all. White had fine creatures that could match black and red's, but the removal was Journey to Nowhere, Arrow Volley Trap, and Pitfall Trap. Both the traps are defensive, and if you were on defense in Zendikar, you were losing. And, for some reason, they forgot to include Green in the design file or something 
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Jan 8, 2011 04:41
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I apparently was in a slump. Just got home from a draft splitting the finals (we played and he won) with a BR deck heavy on the Removal: 2 Blasts, Arc Trail, Turn to Slag, Scrapmelter, Shatter, Grasp of Darkness, and Carnifex Demon. When you get a Blast P2P7, you know Red is open.
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Jan 8, 2011 05:22
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Just took 2nd at my local FNM with this here deck. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=132790 There is a description of events there too. It was my first draft since the M10 grand-prix in Boston, so I'm pretty happy with 2nd. Although admittedly I did get pretty lucky at certain points, my opponent 2nd round might have had the better deck to be completely honest he just had some bad luck drawing. But hey, luck is a component of the game so as long as you take stock of that and don't think you definitely drafted and played perfectly I guess it is all good  .I think I was really lacking in bombs, but I neither opened nor passed any bomb ever, so I couldn't do much there. If anyone has any general comments on the deck please let me know, I'm trying to get back into drafting before the next prerelease.
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Jan 8, 2011 05:32
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e; eeeeee
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Jan 8, 2011 05:34
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Chajusong posted:They also totally hosed up the colour balance, more than any other set I've seen. The colours with the best removal were also the colours with the best creatures, and there was little reason to play the bad colours. While black and red are stupidly dominant, you can still draft strong decks in the other colours. Blue has Kraken Hatchling, Whiplash Trap, Into the Roil, Sky Ruin Drake at common followed by strong uncommons like seastalkers and Tsunami. White has a heap of good small dudes backed by good removal, Arrow Volley at best is a total blowout. Green is pretty mixed though, without good rares like Terra Stomper or Strength of the Tajuru you aren't going far. I like it, I like swinging dudes, games are fast and tight, and (in comparison to SOM) bombs are more of a challenge than a death sentence.
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Jan 8, 2011 05:48
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On the current topic of Zendikar, my LGS decided this FNM it was gonna be triple Zendikar draft! Boy, I had no idea what I was doing. I tried U/B control with a splash for a geopede (even though geopede hit the table early most of the time), but got face rolled pretty hard. I was kind of surprised at the power level of the average card though. Namely, being underpowered bunk. Felt good passing that Eternity Vessel though.
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Jan 8, 2011 10:31
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inkblot posted:On the current topic of Zendikar, my LGS decided this FNM it was gonna be triple Zendikar draft! Boy, I had no idea what I was doing. I tried U/B control with a splash for a geopede (even though geopede hit the table early most of the time), but got face rolled pretty hard. I was kind of surprised at the power level of the average card though. Namely, being underpowered bunk. Felt good passing that Eternity Vessel though. Really? List what you felt like underpowered junk. Eternity Vessel is real daunting in ther right deck.
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Jan 8, 2011 11:17
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Well, maybe it was just that all the packs I saw didn't really play with one another. I saw lots of trap fetching and discard in blue, and almost no traps. The trap I did see was Ravenous Trap, which went really well with the 1 hedron crab that showed up out of 21 packs. The creatures were actually not too bad, but the packs we got seemed to be somewhat creature poor, as I only ever saw a couple per pack. Looking at the set online, I think it isn't so much the fact that Zendikar has woefully underpowered stuff, but we got a really weird line up of pretty unimpressive packs for our draft.
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Jan 8, 2011 21:47
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Zendikar is all about drafting bears. It's really dumb and the colors with the best removal also have the best bears (red and black).
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Jan 8, 2011 22:05
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For those of us that play online, any suggestions as to M11 vs SoM? I typically play 4-3-2-2's and have more luck in SoM as to opening game swinging bombs. But I feel like I often end up with nuts U/W decks in M11 only to lose to some random guy who opened a grave titan or other stuff. Any opinion on which format you guys feel is the better one atm.
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Jan 9, 2011 06:09
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^ I don't know, I really liked M11 a lot better. It's been said a thousand times, but part of the problem with SoM limited is that basically any color can play any bomb, because your deck is mostly artifacts anyway so whatever colors you're in is completely arbitrary. Top that off with the total randomness of infect (all in or bust) and lack of removal, and the whole format just feels like an inconsistent mess. In M11 on the other hand, a Grave Titan is more likely to get money drafted in the second or third packs than it is to get played. Signaling is a lot more solid since half of your packs aren't colorless, and there are a variety of powerful archetypes, although UW is generally the best. M11 still has a bit of a bland feel to it being a core set and all, but I really liked the drafting a lot better. I maybe like SoM for sealed better, however. The other thing I consider is the expected value of the cards you draft; I think it's really a wash between the two sets, although M11 may have a slight edge due to the Titans and the value of some of the rares. Basically, the mythics are the only things worth any real money in either set, and almost every rare in Scars is trash.
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Jan 9, 2011 08:00
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I'm playing ROE draft for the first time on Thursday, can anyone give me some tips? I've only drafted once before and that was M11. I drafted UW fliers and came first without using any rares  So yeah key cards to look for, drafting archetypes etc. Meanwhile i'm off to watch LSV's ROE drafts.
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Jan 9, 2011 17:47
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Surmy posted:For those of us that play online, any suggestions as to M11 vs SoM? I typically play 4-3-2-2's and have more luck in SoM as to opening game swinging bombs. But I feel like I often end up with nuts U/W decks in M11 only to lose to some random guy who opened a grave titan or other stuff. I prefer SOM just because it's the current set, but both pale in comparison to ROE. However, don't play 4-3-2-2. Just don't. Why are you playing a format with less prize payout?
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Jan 9, 2011 17:52
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frameset posted:I'm playing ROE draft for the first time on Thursday, can anyone give me some tips? This is the article that I've seen linked the most covering ROE archetypes: http://www.blackborder.com/q/node/7697. Reading it makes me swoon for that format. I got back into MtG after 8 years at the ROE release and drafting it was the most fun I've ever had. Pinwiz11 posted:I prefer SOM just because it's the current set, but both pale in comparison to ROE. This is a good argument against 4-3-2-2 in the long term, but also there is the short term argument that if you treat matches as Bernoulli trials, then for any given win percentage your expected payout is higher in one of 8-4 and Swiss.
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Jan 9, 2011 18:16
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Pinwiz11 posted:I prefer SOM just because it's the current set, but both pale in comparison to ROE. My skill-level is not up to par in 8-4 queues and in 4-3-2-2 winning one round will typically pay for my next draft.
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Jan 9, 2011 18:24
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Surmy posted:My skill-level is not up to par in 8-4 queues and in 4-3-2-2 winning one round will typically pay for my next draft. How does winning 2 packs pay for 3 packs and $2? Are you usually opening $6 worth of rares to flip? Because that'd be amazing. And even then, you're still paying for half your drafts.
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Jan 9, 2011 19:37
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Most beginners don't play 8-4 because they have a lower chance of making it to the finals. 8-4 payouts are only higher than others if you have a 50% chance of winning -and- can buy in repeatedly without a guaranteed win.
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Jan 9, 2011 19:43
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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TheGame posted:Most beginners don't play 8-4 because they have a lower chance of making it to the finals. 8-4 payouts are only higher than others if you have a 50% chance of winning -and- can buy in repeatedly without a guaranteed win. This is totally reasonable, which is why beginners should play Swiss v v
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Jan 9, 2011 19:46
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4-3-2-2 is supporting throwing away money, and no one should play them until they're 5-3-2-2. 
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Jan 9, 2011 19:48
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Ah okay, I misunderstood the angle of the argument. Yeah, Swiss is a pretty good rookie thing. I'm 18-0 in my last 3 Swiss drafts, partially because I've opened 2 Wurmcoils. If I keep this rate up I'll be in decent shape to enter Standard without putting my house up for sale!
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Jan 9, 2011 19:51
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Ashenai posted:This is totally reasonable, which is why beginners should play Swiss v The only argument you can make for 4-3-2-2 is that the competition is so bad your winning % is higher there than any other format.
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Jan 9, 2011 22:58
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4322 rules, more packs for less effort. Also the players are never as bad as swiss, never play swiss.
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Jan 9, 2011 23:18
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LCQC posted:4322 rules, more packs for less effort. Also the players are never as bad as swiss, never play swiss. The total payout of a 4-3-2-2 is obviously 11 packs. The total payout of a Swiss is 12 packs (Each player playing 3 games is 12 games in total [as each games has two players]). So the average payout for Swiss is higher and really the only way 4322 would be better than it is if you routinely finish 1st/2nd and never below 4th in which case you should be aiming to play 8-4.
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Jan 11, 2011 20:59
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Decided to try an ME4 draft, lost in first round and got no sweet rares  . Here's the draft, though the ME4 cards have no pictures yet, and here is the deck I ended up with:
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Jan 12, 2011 21:56
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Karandras posted:Why all the Zendikar hate? I heard about Tom Martell's 49 game losing SoM streak and was discussing it on Twitter and he says that even SoM isn't as bad as Zendikar Speaking of Tom Martell...  He just sucks at drafting.
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Jan 12, 2011 22:17
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Trying out ME4 swiss because the pay out is good and I want original duels. Blue seems to be the best color in this pool (maybe the whole format) and white compliments it with more fliers and a little bit of removal. Hopefully my mana doesn't get too tied up with the Serra Bestiary and the counter spells, but I think I can win through the air well enough (there are no spiders in the set for some reason). The power level of the set is a big drop from the new ones and i'll let you know if seven mana four power dudes can win games or not.
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Jan 13, 2011 05:57
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Whyyyyyyyyyyy won't they do a product like this for real life so we can get staple cards for older formats without paying a hojillion dollars In related news, JTMS is sitting around $100 average price.
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Jan 13, 2011 06:51
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