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Pladdicus posted:Confidence, I am now filled with it. Look at it this way, you can't do worse!
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Jan 24, 2011 23:20
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Tempest_56 posted:It's a Spider 5K. Jenner's a light HK mech. It packs literally more than quadruple the firepower, more armor, only slightly less mobility and can flip arms so it doesn't even matter if the Spider gets behind it. Barring incredible bad dice luck in shooting, the Jenner has a massive advantage and should win almost every time. Hell, half the Spider's firepower is in machine guns. The Jenner can take it. I'd like to ID the unknown mech before I do anything to hardcore. It's unlikely we'll be able to salvage any kills in the short term.
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Jan 24, 2011 23:23
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AtlantisMantis posted:Hey man, just avoid the car wash and you'll be fine. When someone named Atlantis tells you to stay out of the water, you should probably listen.
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Jan 24, 2011 23:23
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AtlantisMantis posted:Hey man, just avoid the car wash and you'll be fine. "What do you mean my mech can't dog paddle."
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Jan 24, 2011 23:23
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Mukaikubo posted:Look at it this way, you can't do worse! Hey, I guess I cannot fail any harder than the theoretical Jenner pilot.
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Jan 24, 2011 23:24
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:I'd like to ID the unknown mech before I do anything to hardcore. It's unlikely we'll be able to salvage any kills in the short term. It's called Recon by Fire and it's a noble tradition.
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Jan 24, 2011 23:25
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Oh god, that reminds me of my most embarassing loss ever. Lance on lance fight, I'm running an Orion. Big, beefy heavy, AC/10, LRM15, medium lasers, serious armor load, and only the base 10 heat sinks. Not normally a problem, the Orion runs nice and cool. First turn, I walk into level one water. Fail my piloting roll and end up on my back. Roll at 2 for hit location (forces a crit check). Two engine crits. Leaving me with no heatsinks to slowly roast. 
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Jan 24, 2011 23:27
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"Noble mechwarrior, go forth with this most holy and rare of Mechs to bring justice to our enemies in a honorable duel! The technology to make this glorious machinery might have been lost for a long time but it is made of the most sturdiest of unobtanium, you cannot fail us now!  "*Mech slips on some mud and explodes* "Ah, errm, hrrmm... can you start up the mech factory again dear? I got to go get some other idiot noble to pilot our death traps, these bloody electricity bills are killing us!  "
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Jan 24, 2011 23:32
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:I'd like to ID the unknown mech before I do anything to hardcore. It's unlikely we'll be able to salvage any kills in the short term. Well, let's look at things. What do we know about the unknown? It's a light, it moves at least 5/8, this is Succession Wars tech and it isn't a typical Combine mech. Possibilities? Locust, Wasp, Stinger, Spider, Ostscout, Mercury, Thorn, Valkyrie, Mongoose, Commando, Javelin, Hermes, Hussar, Firestarter. So 14 potentials. Of those, I'd say only the Javelin, Firestarter, Hermes and Hussar are any real threat to us. Maybe the Commando. The rest are all either too lightly armed or armored to be a significant problem at this point.
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Jan 24, 2011 23:32
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Tempest_56 posted:Well, let's look at things. What do we know about the unknown? It's a light, it moves at least 5/8, this is Succession Wars tech and it isn't a typical Combine mech. I'm getting all warm and tingly inside. Talk more logic to me, baby. 
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Jan 24, 2011 23:35
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Wouldn't the combined firepower of say, a Mongoose and a Spider be enough to cause serious damage to my face? That's 4 Medium lasers, 1 Light laser and 2 MGs. I've got about as many guns, but that's not great. A Valkyrie sniping me is a more realistic issue. It just not a percentage play. Yes, I can take a moderate risk and might kill a hostile light mech, but killing a mech isn't the objective, I probably won't be able to salvage the mech (if this a recon force, there will be a main force around, and they will have more, bigger, mechs), and I might get shot up. Best play is screen the rest of the lance until the LT orders us to kill them all, we have to engage, or a great opportunity exists.
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Jan 24, 2011 23:41
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Yeah at this point I'd have to second people saying that salvage is not a feasible objective. You're only here for recon and to get rid of J. Edgar Hoovertanks. Even if you downed a 'mech it's not like you could drag it back with you while under fire from the rest of his lancemates.
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Jan 24, 2011 23:43
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:It just not a percentage play. Yes, I can take a moderate risk and might kill a hostile light mech, but killing a mech isn't the objective, I probably won't be able to salvage the mech (if this a recon force, there will be a main force around, and they will have more, bigger, mechs), and I might get shot up. Exactly. Good to see someone learning how to light 'mech properly. 
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Jan 24, 2011 23:44
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Tempest_56 posted:Well, let's look at things. What do we know about the unknown? It's a light, it moves at least 5/8, this is Succession Wars tech and it isn't a typical Combine mech. I actually started writing up a list like that before I decided no one would care. >_> Well, here's a rundown: The Javelin carries 2x SRM-6 if it's the basic model, or 4 med lasers if it's the first variant. Seems quite punchy for this weight. Firestarter is 4 flamers, two med lasers, and two machine guns. I fail to see anything seriously threatening here. Hermes is two medium lasers and a flamer, but ungodly fast. I don't see it as especially dangerous. Hussar is also hellishly fast and has a large laser. I know little about tabletop BT, but wouldn't it have probably fired by now if it was this? Commando is SRM-6, SRM-4, med laser, or other stuff. Large chance of carrying a large laser if it's a variant. Thorn and Valkyrie carry LRMs in their basic models. Again, I would think it would have fired by now if it had LRMs. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Jan 24, 2011 |
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Jan 24, 2011 23:45
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If two light mechs are chasing our scout around, that leaves us with a large advantage in the fight that matters. Who wants to see us blow up a couple hover-tanks and flee? We need grand victory! I want to bring the Dragon to its knees. Victory over the Combine at all costs! The Kell Hounds will achieve glorious reputation for our decisive victories.
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Jan 24, 2011 23:47
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Mukaikubo posted:I'm getting all warm and tingly inside. Talk more logic to me, baby. Will cheesy computer game intros work? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8mOiRLQB6E 
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Jan 24, 2011 23:49
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The Mechcommander 1 and Mechwarrior 3 intros are my personal favorite BT-game-related intro sequences. Since WarLocke put up the first, here's the other. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm76b8tzzWI
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Jan 24, 2011 23:53
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Cythereal posted:I actually started writing up a list like that before I decided no one would care. >_> Well, here's a rundown: I think the direct fire weapons haven't had line of site to me (I've been being careful about this) - if the tanks can spot for the LRM mechs, we can scrap them from the list. These are chaff: Locust, Wasp, Stinger, Spider, Ostscout, These do not present favorable engagement odds: Mongoose, Commando, Javelin, Hermes, Hussar, Firestarter, Mercury I'm already starting with a heat disadvantage, why would I attack given the dangerous selection of things that can blow me up.
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Jan 24, 2011 23:56
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Angry_Ed posted:The Mechcommander 1 and Mechwarrior 3 intros are my personal favorite BT-game-related intro sequences. Since WarLocke put up the first, here's the other. Scratch that. Found my new favourite. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orhOvbfyyJw&NR Apparantly there is a new Mechwarrior game in development. Pre Clans era. 
Tarquinn fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Jan 25, 2011 |
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Jan 25, 2011 00:10
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Tarquinn posted:Mechwarrior 2's intro is still the best. Wrong MW2 version.
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Jan 25, 2011 00:23
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PoptartsNinja posted:I'd prefer not to put the actual numbers in, on the off chance it'll piss off Catalyst Games. The Jenner had basically no chance to hit (3:36 (still worth taking the shots)), the Vulcan had a slightly better chance but rolled pretty terrible (it happens). Axe-man posted:I am feeling that same way as i try to move myself, just one or two more movement points and it would be perfect for both cover and a shot.
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Jan 25, 2011 00:38
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Rules question: Does a forest block LOS over it if the forest is on Z-level 0 and you are standing on a ridge behind it with Z level 2? Edit: Here are the 100% free, officially published an distribute on their website by Catalyst games quickstart rules -> http://www.classicbattletech.com/downloads/QSR_BattleTech_EN.pdf I imagine anything in that document is fair game for public posting. Edit: My orders are in. Cthulhu Dreams fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Jan 25, 2011 |
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Jan 25, 2011 00:39
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:Rules question: Does a forest block LOS over it if the forest is on Z-level 0 and you are standing on a ridge behind it with Z level 2? I forget whether forests count as one height level or two for the purposes of calculating LOS (and IIRC you need more than 1 hex of forest to totally block it) but if you're standing on a hex 2 levels higher than the forest one it's certainly not going to screen you in that case. Edit: Mechs are considered to be 2 levels 'tall' so if you were on level 0 terrain next to a level 1 hill or something your legs would be out of view but the upper torso still fair game. Depending on the version of the rules you're using this partial cover can be a good or bad thing (in at least one version if you get hit while in partial cover hit location is rolled on the punching table which gives a 1/6 chance to hit the head). WarLocke fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jan 25, 2011 |
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Jan 25, 2011 00:55
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I knew the bit about mechs being two levels tall.. and as forests totally screen you with enough of them, they must be a minimum of two levels tall, so a height of two makes sense.
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Jan 25, 2011 01:00
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:Rules question: Does a forest block LOS over it if the forest is on Z-level 0 and you are standing on a ridge behind it with Z level 2? The specifics of intervening terrain are expanded upon in Total Warfare which has a sort of check list to determine if terrain intervenes or not. In this specific case the answer is probably no. Tactical Operations has an even more in depth LOS system as the one in the core rules, while very simple, can lead to some weird situations. *edit* I'd also like to point out that the rules in that book are a little simplified from the real thing (no crits, heat, etc.). Longinus00 fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Jan 25, 2011 |
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Jan 25, 2011 01:03
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Angry_Ed posted:The Mechcommander 1 and Mechwarrior 3 intros are my personal favorite BT-game-related intro sequences. There's also the awesomely cheesy Virtual World Entertainment "training" vids: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHSmuBxqlG4&feature=related (Plus, Judge Reinhart!) Edit: Holy poo poo this got aired on Scifi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvVSx4m5l5Q&feature=related WarLocke fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Jan 25, 2011 |
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Jan 25, 2011 01:12
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Tarquinn posted:
Unfortunately there is some sort of legal dispute with some anime company that is freezing development. 
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Jan 25, 2011 01:22
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Artificer posted:Unfortunately there is some sort of legal dispute with some anime company that is freezing development. Here's a pretty good summary of the whole thing: http://www.terrania.us/journal/2009/09/harmony-gold-vs-battletech-second.html
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Jan 25, 2011 01:23
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Okay, here is ANOTHER set of Quickstart rules: http://www.classicbattletech.com/downloads/CBT_Introductory_Rulebook.pdf That do include Heat and Critical Hits this time
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Jan 25, 2011 01:32
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Cythereal posted:The Javelin carries 2x SRM-6 if it's the basic model, or 4 med lasers if it's the first variant. Seems quite punchy for this weight. It is. The Jav's one of my favorite recon killers - it's quick, reasonably tough and can dish out a LOT of damage versus a light mech. It's basically the worst-case scenario we've got here. quote:Firestarter is 4 flamers, two med lasers, and two machine guns. I fail to see anything seriously threatening here. The threat here is mostly versus the Griffin. Either one of these can easily get in under the Griff's minimum range, keep in close and pick it apart with no real threat to themselves. The Firestarter could just flamer the Griffin until it pops. We'd have to divert a lot of our available firepower ASAP to kill it before the Griffin got into serious trouble, and that leaves us open to their Jenner and Dragon. quote:Hussar is also hellishly fast and has a large laser. I know little about tabletop BT, but wouldn't it have probably fired by now if it was this? The Hussar can dictate engagement range pretty easily - well played, it makes mincemeat out of the Jenner and Vulcan, and can put the Blackjack at seriously unfavorable odds. It probably hasn't fired by now because it hasn't had direct LOS on us yet. (To put into perspective, I once held off an entire assault lance with a Hussar 200. Don't underestimate that speed and a good sniping weapon.) quote:Thorn and Valkyrie carry LRMs in their basic models. Again, I would think it would have fired by now if it had LRMs. That's likely. Neither is also that much of a threat - it's just a lone LRM5 on either.
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Jan 25, 2011 01:33
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Agreeing with the above. Worst-case scenario is that it's a Javelin or Hussar (although I don't think the Combine uses Javelins much, that's a Davion design). A Hermes or Firestarter could be a problem, but they're only average as far as speed goes for a light mech and they've got a bunch of water/forest between it and the Griffin (the only one of our mechs that would have a particular problem with them).
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Jan 25, 2011 01:38
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An entire assault lance being held off by a single Hussar seems a bit... off. That had to be the worst piloted Assault Lance ever, or they just didn't have an objective. If they were advancing towards some goal, they should have been able to form up with covering fire and just push through you to the goal. It's not like you'd be an overwhelming threat to them unless their entire goal was to kill you specifically. In which case they're pretty stupid for not calling in some lighter mechs or aerospace assets to take you out. An entire Assault Lance chasing around a single light mech is a terrible waste of resources. [EDIT] Not that I fault you for pulling it off even under those circumstances. I'm just saying, that's pretty absurd from a tactical and logistical standpoint for the OpFor.
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Jan 25, 2011 01:42
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Tempest_56 posted:The threat here is mostly versus the Griffin. Either one of these can easily get in under the Griff's minimum range, keep in close and pick it apart with no real threat to themselves. The Firestarter could just flamer the Griffin until it pops. We'd have to divert a lot of our available firepower ASAP to kill it before the Griffin got into serious trouble, and that leaves us open to their Jenner and Dragon. You overestimate the threat to the Griffin. The Firestarter is 6/9/6, not fast enough to truly dictate range. The Hermes is fast like a freak, but has no jump jets, leaving it in the same category. The minimum range penalty on the PPC is only +3 - and neither the Firestarter or Hermes can afford to hang long against that firepower. Tempest_56 posted:The Hussar can dictate engagement range pretty easily - well played, it makes mincemeat out of the Jenner and Vulcan, and can put the Blackjack at seriously unfavorable odds. It probably hasn't fired by now because it hasn't had direct LOS on us yet. (To put into perspective, I once held off an entire assault lance with a Hussar 200. Don't underestimate that speed and a good sniping weapon.) This is not a Star League Hussar - the ER Large that made that machine something to be feared is long gone. With only a standard Large Laser, and the tinfoil armor, it's not much of a threat. Not to mention that your matchups are assuming one on one fights - proper lance tactics will mean that whatever the hidden light is, it will be irrelevant. If it goes for the Griffin, it gets counterflanked by the Jenner, if it goes for the lights, the medium has a field day. (Magic 7's, baybee!)
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Jan 25, 2011 01:44
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Something to keep in mind is that currently all the Kurita units are moving before the Kell Hounds unlike the alternating style of the board game. This effectively kills any movement advantage the Kurita mechs have as you can always position yourself properly. Whether or not Poptarts keeps this up through the whole fight is another matter.Cthulhu Dreams posted:Okay, here is ANOTHER set of Quickstart rules: Intervening terrain rules are on pg. 20 if you're still curious.
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Jan 25, 2011 01:48
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With a bit of luck I may get an ID on it this turn. My basic (and in-universe RP problem!) is that my lancemates are HOOAH shouting, yee-hawing cowboys, and I just don't want to get my rear end shot off while achieving the mission, which is surviving to spend your pay.
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Jan 25, 2011 01:48
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Zaodai posted:An entire assault lance being held off by a single Hussar seems a bit... off. That had to be the worst piloted Assault Lance ever, or they just didn't have an objective. That one's a bit of a longer story than that and I'm leaving out a number of details. The summary is 'everybody kill that god damned Hussar, it's spotting for a Long Tom that's shooting our dropship'. But that doesn't sound nearly as cool.
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Jan 25, 2011 01:57
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And keep in mind that the LRM hit that was scored isn't necessarily indicative of how well indirect LRMs are going to perform. In my (limited) experience, they're usually a lot less accurate. So don't expect that kind of hit each turn you're not dealing with that artillerymech.
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Jan 25, 2011 01:58
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Tempest_56 posted:That one's a bit of a longer story than that and I'm leaving out a number of details. The summary is 'everybody kill that god damned Hussar, it's spotting for a Long Tom that's shooting our dropship'. It still doesn't really make sense to me. I mean, I can get how you would make yourself a target, but not why they wouldn't have anything at all better than an assault lance to go hussar hunting with. They probably deserved to have their dropship destroyed. (Though I would have thought that if you were in spotting range, you were also in range of Naval class PPCs, gauss rifles, and missile launchers. Or that they could corral you away by fanning out with overlapping cover zones. It just rings of them being completely inept. )
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Jan 25, 2011 02:03
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:With a bit of luck I may get an ID on it this turn. You aren't getting paid to disobey commands mister. When I order you to charge into an unknown enemy I expect the order to be followed out flawlessly 
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Jan 25, 2011 02:06
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Zaodai posted:(Though I would have thought that if you were in spotting range, you were also in range of Naval class PPCs, gauss rifles, and missile launchers. Or that they could corral you away by fanning out with overlapping cover zones. It just rings of them being completely inept. Were they Liao? 
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Jan 25, 2011 02:09
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