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nm posted:No kidding. My torts professor helped write/edit the Prosser/Wade torts book and it's the only really helpful textbook I've come across. Maybe because torts lends itself to the particular strategy they used, but it was really useful. All the concepts had like 1-3 principal cases that were like 1.5-2 pages then 5 pages of 1 sentence case summaries of different iterations of the same issue grouped by the general situation that it occurred in: parent/gov't agency/employer and so on.
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Jan 26, 2011 18:35
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TheMadMilkman posted:My CivPro processor decided that all textbooks were terrible, so he "created" his own, which was a binder full if cases that he personally edited. It was the epitome of worthlessness. 
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Jan 26, 2011 18:37
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Do I apply for a detail position at the Department of Commerce? pros: looks good on a resume cons: would have to wear pants, wake up in the morning, possibly lose overtime
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Jan 26, 2011 18:39
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:Do I apply for a detail position at the Department of Commerce? Don't you have a good job at the PTO already? Also, isn't there going to be a hiring freeze in government? It hardly seems like a good time to bounce around between jobs. edit: I don't know what "detail position" means, it's possible that this is a key detail.
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Jan 26, 2011 18:56
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If you're gonna be the worst rapper ever, don't link it to your professional career as a fledgling solo attorney. This is so awful. I went to school with this guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZoI7g99i5E Dunning-Kruger in FULL effect. And yeah, I'm sure he seriously meant and thinks it to be good. (Thinks he coulda been a pro with the right break). The sad thing is he's losing out on "normal" folks who want a lawyer by tossing around motherfucker and human being like candy off a parade float. And he's losing out on his target audience by sucking balls. srsly fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Jan 26, 2011 |
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Jan 26, 2011 19:00
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I am being interviewed for a non-legal USCIS job at GS 5-GS 7 ($27k-$33k). I will cry if I don't get hired.
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Jan 26, 2011 19:00
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blar posted:I am being interviewed for a non-legal USCIS job at GS 5-GS 7 ($27k-$33k). I will cry if I don't get hired. You know the Tea Partiers want to cut that insane salary right? And rightfully so goddamned government bureaucrats getting lazy and fat on that sweeet sweet 27k per year
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Jan 26, 2011 19:23
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Defleshed posted:You know the Tea Partiers want to cut that insane salary right? And rightfully so goddamned government bureaucrats getting lazy and fat on that sweeet sweet 27k per year A 4th year attorney with the Federal Government makes 105k, "works" 40 hours a week, and gets a month of paid leave (which they actually use).
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Jan 26, 2011 19:56
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HiddenReplaced posted:A 4th year attorney with the Federal Government makes 105k, "works" 40 hours a week, and gets a month of paid leave (which they actually use). Jesus Christ that would be the life
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Jan 26, 2011 20:20
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MechaFrogzilla posted:Jesus Christ that would be the life It should be the norm, not the exception.
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Jan 26, 2011 20:24
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HiddenReplaced posted:A 4th year attorney with the Federal Government makes 105k, "works" 40 hours a week, and gets a month of paid leave (which they actually use). Large non-profit or association work is pretty awesome too. I've been at my place for 4 years. I get a 40 hour "work" (posting on SA) week, 3 weeks of vacation, tons of paid holidays, and travel to somewhat awesome places 3-4 times a year. (Palm Beach this weekend wooooo). I don't make 105k but I make a good living and can support my family in a semi-middle class fashion thanks to IBR. I just wish I hadn't decided to throw away all that money to get a law degree then I could remove the "thanks to IBR' from the previous sentence.  Of course then I wouldn't get to do awesome Army man stuff from the relatively safe position of being a JAG either 
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Jan 26, 2011 20:30
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Green Crayons posted:How much does this type of representation cost, in all? $200? $500? It seems like a pretty straightforward procedure/issue set for these guys. My boss charges simple traffic and muni infractions at $300 flat. And yes, they pay.
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Jan 26, 2011 20:35
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entris posted:Don't you have a good job at the PTO already? detail = temporary assignment, after which you go back to your regular job
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Jan 26, 2011 21:25
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I don't think there's a strong argument against diversifying your work experience/resume, within reason.
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Jan 26, 2011 21:45
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:detail = temporary assignment, after which you go back to your regular job I guess if you are in no danger of losing your current job, then you should apply?
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Jan 26, 2011 21:46
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Defleshed posted:Large non-profit or association work is pretty awesome too. I've been at my place for 4 years. I get a 40 hour "work" (posting on SA) week, 3 weeks of vacation, tons of paid holidays, and travel to somewhat awesome places 3-4 times a year. (Palm Beach this weekend wooooo). I don't make 105k but I make a good living and can support my family in a semi-middle class fashion thanks to IBR. So when do you ship out, man? Also what kind of formal classroom training do you get from the Army as a JAG before they start you actually practicing?
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Jan 26, 2011 22:10
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prussian advisor posted:So when do you ship out, man? Also what kind of formal classroom training do you get from the Army as a JAG before they start you actually practicing? I am going to JAOBC with the 185th which starts in July. For now I am staying Reserve since my civilian job suddenly started to own a few months ago, but I might change my mind while I'm down there and go onto active duty. We'll see. I like the other dudes in my Reserve unit and am starting to feel comfortable with them and the idea of being a Reservist so who knows. You get tons of formal training on being an Army Lawyer. The first phase is at Fort Lee, VA and is only a few days to get you set up with uniforms (if you don't already have them because you're a Reservist or a green-to-gold guy or something), indoctrinate you a bit into military customs and courtesies, introduce you to Army culture, etc. Then you go to Charlottesville to the Army Law School which is about 9 weeks. There you learn UCMJ, Federal Practice, Admin Law and all the otehr poo poo you need to be familiar with to be a JAG. Final phase is in Fort Benning, GA where you do all the Army man poo poo (although they take it much easier on you than Joe Private who enlists and goes to boot camp) like land navigation and range firing and all that stuff. Overall the whole deal takes about 4 1/2 months. My boss is a little pissed but even better is he can't do poo poo about it! Woo!
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Jan 26, 2011 22:24
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Our school does Civ Pro as a two-semester course with two different professors. The first semester, I had a good grasp and did pretty well. Two days into the second semester, I'm pretty sure I have no idea what's going on.
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Jan 26, 2011 23:07
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Kaiser Bill posted:I'm forced to take a law class for my non-law grad program (Urban Planning). I'm not happy about it at all. I came into it knowing nothing about this whole law school trip and caring less. The book is nigh-unreadable. Sure, I can read the actual words, but they're almost impossible to put together into any kind of meaning, and I find myself spacing out after half a page. So help me out here, and I apologize if this has been long covered. Is there a very comprehensive online law case database with tons and tons of cases, so I can search for a case and get a fairly concise summary, rather than read page after page of jargon? Or at least, so I go back and read the jargonish details with some kind of idea about what the whole mess is supposed to be about. Thanks! Casebooks are terrible, but a hornbook could help. Try looking into these: Property Examples & Explanations Real Property in a Nutshell The Law of Property (Hornbook) If your class isn't property there are equivalent books out there for the various first year subjects.
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Jan 26, 2011 23:22
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Speaking of hornbooks, what's a good one for Corporations with the Klein book?
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Jan 27, 2011 00:07
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Tonight, I failed to convince an undergrad that she shouldn't go to law school. What do you say to, "I majored in Creative Writing; what am I supposed to do?"
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Jan 27, 2011 09:47
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billion dollar bitch posted:Tonight, I failed to convince an undergrad that she shouldn't go to law school. What do you say to, "I majored in Creative Writing; what am I supposed to do?" "Look for a job in one of the many fields that just require a generic bachelor's degree like lots of other humanities and social science majors do."
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Jan 27, 2011 10:10
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Petey posted:In terms of generalizing across alma maters, MIT grads are probably comparatively better off when applying to law school than grads of most schools. They'll get in to better programs both because of their actual intelligence and the brand, and they have the science background for stuff like patent law coming out. Can you elaborate a bit on your gripe with current day MIT grads applying for law school? Or is it more with the faculty pushing them to do so for the wrong reasons? I'm in a similar situation (though not nearly as prestigious of undergrad) and have been considering law school for a while. The OP and thread haven't managed to dissuade me yet but maybe you can help. I have a 3.5 undergrad GPA, not sure how well I could do on the LSAT but I would definitely follow the study guide in the OP. Graduate degree in (also in engineering), several years work experience, several years living abroad (if these count for anything in admissions). Petey posted:kids with MIT educations are looking at law school rather than actually using their world-class engineering/science degrees to make the world a better place (the same can be said for MIT grads who become day traders). Isn't there something to be said for helping entrepreneurs get in a position to make some money for their efforts? Most engineering jobs (except maybe for PhD's) are in systems, testing, support, etc. In some ways it seems like patent law would have you closer to working with the real innovators. Maybe I'm just naive and have a distorted view of how it really works?
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Jan 27, 2011 10:33
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Mr. Chupon posted:Can you elaborate a bit on your gripe with current day MIT grads applying for law school? Or is it more with the faculty pushing them to do so for the wrong reasons? Well, there are two things: 1) The fact that the law market remains lovely for any and everyone, no matter what undergrad you went to 2) The fact that, as other people in this thread will say, a lot of being a lawyer is just fundamentally tedious document review and not at all like anything exciting you'll see on TV etc, and that someone with an MIT education in engineering, however unglamorous engineering can be, is still going to be able to do more interesting things and contribute more to the world than just another person inspecting patent applications (this is a personal shot to WJ) quote:
For you, LSAT and GPA are basically all that matter. All things considered, the other things might push a bit. But only against, say, a hypothetical perfectly equivalent candidate in all other respects. quote:
I think you are. Ask Baruch Obamawitz about how much he, as a patent examiner, actually helps / is closer to real innovators. The only patent lawyer I know who is doing really exciting work with new innovators right now is Jon Dudas, the former head of the patent office, and that's because he's the current president of FIRST Robotics. I mean, a lawyer should really be weighing in on these things. And for you, maybe a patent job would be an easy way to make a six figure salary (patent examiner jobs, if you can land them, are ridiculously cushy). But in terms of innovation, being part of design, creativity, that sort of thing - my instinct is you're going to be way, way closer to that in industry (albeit maybe at a different job than you have currently) than in or after law school.
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Jan 27, 2011 14:00
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Well, truth be told, every once in a while I get something "interesting" across my desk that I treat like a learning opportunity. I get to learn about XPath, CDMA, a bunch of poo poo I wouldn't otherwise learn. So pretty much the job entails getting sucked into Wikipedia for about two hours a day. I've been here three years, and I've seen a total of one application that's like "oh, that's a great idea and it's really clever and innovative." I think it was either Google or IBM, I can't remember. But with respect to helping entrepreneurs, I can just say that if I had to guess, the majority of the patents I've issued have gone to a big corporation. edit: In my defense, I did computer science, so it's not like I can actually contribute to the world as an engineer 
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Jan 27, 2011 15:15
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So remember this email? quote:Why MIT Students Should Go to Law School And we figured out that Brotman and Jung graduated in the 70s, and Franco was the only one who had gone to law school in the last decade? Well, I sent an email to the organizers, asking if anyone would be there to offer a cautionary perspective given the recent crash of the legal market, and saying that "should go to law school" is an awfully strong claim to make in this environment, and this was the response I got: quote:We chose a strong title to catch people’s attention, and so I am happy to see that it caught yours. We assume the discussion will address the implicit alternative: should not. As we have all noticed, MIT students enjoy challenging the declarations of others. lol so I guess they will get the "no jobs" perspective Petey fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Jan 27, 2011 |
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Jan 27, 2011 17:23
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petey you're such a busybody
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Jan 27, 2011 17:50
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Lawyerin': Lean and Mean
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Jan 27, 2011 18:05
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Chakron posted:Lawyerin': Lean and Mean i went to law school and now i am literally lean and mean
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Jan 27, 2011 18:19
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Defleshed posted:petey you're such a busybody No see I have the perspective of someone who somehow didn't get hit by a car so I'm trying to keep other people from stepping out into traffic.
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Jan 27, 2011 18:32
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This is not legal advice so I'll ask in this thread but are there any other really funny judgements like this that I can find online? http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2010/2010onsc6568/2010onsc6568.html Some choice lines: quote:In the midst of this social stew perhaps it is not surprising that Larry and Catherine are having problems, serious problems, regarding the custody of, and access to, their children. The source of the difficulties is hatred: a hardened, harmful, high-octane hatred.[2] Larry and Catherine hate each other, as do Larry and Sam. This hatred has raged unabated since the date of separation. Consequently, the likelihood of an amicable resolution is laughable (hatred devours reason); and, a satisfactory legal solution is impossible (hatred has no legal remedy).
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Jan 27, 2011 18:33
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Zo posted:This is not legal advice so I'll ask in this thread but are there any other really funny judgements like this that I can find online? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kozinski#Notable_cases
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Jan 27, 2011 18:45
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Mr. Chupon posted:Isn't there something to be said for helping entrepreneurs get in a position to make some money for their efforts? Most engineering jobs (except maybe for PhD's) are in systems, testing, support, etc. In some ways it seems like patent law would have you closer to working with the real innovators. Maybe I'm just naive and have a distorted view of how it really works? I'd say that the idea of working on patents sounds interesting, but the reality is that the actual work of procuring a patent is very boring and the 'invention' that you work on isn't exactly very cutting edge, at least if you have a strong technical background and aren't delusional. Also, your clients are generally billion dollar tech companies, so you're just talking to some random engineer. Some of these guys barely even want anything to do with a lawyer. Of course, you can also work with a start up or solo entrepreneur and that tends to be a little different, but usually not as lucrative. But regardless, as a newer attorney, you're not going to work very closely with the 'real innovators' - you're basically going to be doing paperwork. mongeese fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Jan 27, 2011 |
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Jan 27, 2011 19:30
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Zo posted:This is not legal advice so I'll ask in this thread but are there any other really funny judgements like this that I can find online? Yes. Here: http://www.lawlawlandblog.com/2010/12/our_holiday_gift_to_you_possib.html
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Jan 27, 2011 19:44
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BigHead posted:Yes. Here: oh my god http://mithras.blogs.com/blog/bradshaw.pdf quote:SUMMARY Petey fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jan 27, 2011 |
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Jan 27, 2011 20:09
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Zo posted:This is not legal advice so I'll ask in this thread but are there any other really funny judgements like this that I can find online? http://lib.law.washington.edu/ref/judhumor.html Counsel having had his say, Anders, California Would seem to say: “New trial, no way.” Forthright counsel I commend For bringing this appeal to end. He has served his client well: A worthless issue would not sell. Dropping his quixotic quest Serves his client's interests best. To press a cause of rank frivolity Would not fill this court with jollity. Though counsel was a courtroom terror, He could not seed the case with error; So nothing now could be much grander Than witnessing his posttrial candor. Lawyers tend to look facetious, Pressing issues merely specious. Frank candor sure beats false bravado, Defending Claudio Rosado. This is how I see the moral: Instead of never-ending quarrel, A broken record, crying “foul”, It's sometimes best to throw the towel. Thus, before the bar of court This defendant must report. He shall have to do his time, For punishment must fit the crime. And that will have to end this rhyme.
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Jan 27, 2011 20:13
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Petey posted:oh my god That judge is in jail now! Kent was legendary for being a GIGANTIC rear end in a top hat and surprise, he was one of the few federal judges ever impeached. G-Mawwwwwww fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Jan 27, 2011 |
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Jan 27, 2011 20:15
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Do any of you guys have any experience with The Innocence Project? http://www.innocenceproject.org/?gclid=CPTk-cCa26YCFUdrKgodDRdO2A I already have an externship in federal district court this summer but I'd really like to do this too. But they need you to work full-time in the summer and part-time during fall semester. It seems like a good learning opportunity and it pays $2,500 (which is better than free). I feel like learning from a judge and the networking/letter of recommendation I'm going to get from the externship this summer will be more helpful but I don't know if I should try to do this at the same time somehow or maybe next summer if I can't find a firm job.
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Jan 27, 2011 21:21
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:Well, truth be told, every once in a while I get something "interesting" across my desk that I treat like a learning opportunity. This is something I totally loved about my job as a support engineer. When something new popped up and it was off to Wikipedia, textbooks and white papers. Baruch Obamawitz posted:
Do you find most patents that you work on interesting? Or is it a grind to get them issued? rsvandy posted:I'd say that the idea of working on patents sounds interesting, but the reality is that the actual work of procuring a patent is very boring and the 'invention' that you work on isn't exactly very cutting edge, at least if you have a strong technical background and aren't delusional. I hadn't considered the possibility that they might look at the patent attorney as an annoyance. Is this common? There are plenty of egos in R&D but it seems like a lot of those guys liked to talk about and share their work too.
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Jan 27, 2011 22:10
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Neko Sou posted:Do any of you guys have any experience with The Innocence Project? http://www.innocenceproject.org/?gclid=CPTk-cCa26YCFUdrKgodDRdO2A I already have an externship in federal district court this summer but I'd really like to do this too. But they need you to work full-time in the summer and part-time during fall semester. It seems like a good learning opportunity and it pays $2,500 (which is better than free). I feel like learning from a judge and the networking/letter of recommendation I'm going to get from the externship this summer will be more helpful but I don't know if I should try to do this at the same time somehow or maybe next summer if I can't find a firm job. I have a classmate who did it this summer. He's had vocational and volunteering history with related issues and causes and has a great personality. I don't know his academic standing but it's not amazing.
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