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WarLocke posted:You want to talk hilarious? I once played a game where a Griffin hit a BattleMaster in the head from extreme range after jumping with its PPC, scored a critical, destroyed the cockpit, we rolled to see how it fell and it ended up pitching backwards off of the level 2 cliff it was on and landed on top of the Locust in that hex, crushing that cockpit (and most of the rest of the mech). Then the second mech would've exploded, and the explosion would've been channeled by the BattleMaster's corpse into a forest that just happened to contain the artillary trap you had laboriously set up to retain the enemy leading to the immoliation of your whole long-range striking force leaving you with only a 20-tonner with no lasers, 5 jammed MG's with full ammo and no ability to dump said ammo, and 1 remaining point of armor on the torso, and with no jump-jets. Edit:vFrom what I've seen, I think the physical-attack mechs were only in the tabletop games and the books, because it's too drat complicated to put a physical attack in with modifiers for weapons that can't possibly get carried by most mechs. It's also a pretty lovely gimmick to base a mech around when the enemy loves to lob poo poo at you from range. elitebuster fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Jan 28, 2011 |
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Jan 28, 2011 05:19
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I've never actually played Battletech, but I've played pretty much every mechwarrior game there is, and I'm watching this tread, and there's one thing I keep seeing and scratching my head about. Mechs With melee weapons. There seem to be many but I've never seen one in a game. Is it common in the Boardgames for mechs to simply Beat the poo poo outa each other?
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Jan 28, 2011 05:26
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Yeah, punching, kicking, using stuff like hatchets and improvised melee weapons(read: trees, girders from wrecked buildings, et al) is pretty common, and very useful. Punching in particular is drat handy in a pinch: as I mentioned elsewhere in the thread, I've seen 20-ton scout mechs instakill 80+ ton Assault-class monsters just by getting lucky with a punch and caving in the cockpit.
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Jan 28, 2011 05:38
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Still waiting on the Vulcan, and since I've gotta be in to work early tomorrow (and have some other things to do as well), the update will probably be delayed until tomorrow evening / saturday morning.
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Jan 28, 2011 06:00
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Mukaikubo posted:Another good thing about Megamek? It'll do all the hard work of tracking forest fires for you. You don't know hilarious until you take a firestarter with four flamers onto a heavy forest map and just let loose running around too fast to be caught. I freaking love Megamek for tracking fires and smoke. It makes setting mass smoke screens viable, which is awesome. I had a match once to simulate a retreat - what should have been a nasty fighting withdrawal turned into a hilarious mess of double-blind smoke.
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Jan 28, 2011 06:05
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It boggles the mind that there are some crazy, insane people who do stuff like smoke/fire tracking and double blind in in-person battletech games.
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Jan 28, 2011 06:10
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Der Waffle Mous posted:It boggles the mind that there are some crazy, insane people who do stuff like smoke/fire tracking and double blind in in-person battletech games. Those are the same people who roll bluff checks on members of the party in DnD, aren't they.
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Jan 28, 2011 06:19
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Yeah, the fire/smoke blind rules aren't BAD per se? But they are incredibly hard to manage at a live game. With something like Megamek you can have the client keep track of it, though, which does a lot to liven up games. As someone mentioned above, strategically setting forest-fires for a fighting retreat makes for some delectably vicious fighting.
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Jan 28, 2011 06:21
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poo poo, double post, sorry
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Jan 28, 2011 06:38
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Aren't melee mechs more useful in urban environments or areas with a lot of cover anyway? Since the melee weapon is pretty much a big part of their arsenal, it would make sense to save them for a combat zone where you can safely get them into close combat. Also, the Hatchetman is my favorite mech, followed closely by the clan omnimech Adder (or Puma for you drat Inner Sphere types.)
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Jan 28, 2011 08:14
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They are impressively vicious in a box canyon. Add in double blind and holy poo poo Berserkers become super scary.
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Jan 28, 2011 08:27
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You know, playing Mechwarrior games I got the distinct impression that Steiner was bad solely because of Katrina Steiner. But reading these old "House X" books the Steiners and Lyran Commonwealth come out of the Succession Wars smelling like roses. They spent pretty much the whole of the wars fighting defensive campaigns against the Combine and FWL and trying to rebuild in the interim. Space Nazis indeed. Unless someone can come up with a good reason, I'm ready to declare Steiner "House Good Guys" for real. Seriously, through their entire history they didn't launch a major offensive campaign. You can hardly say that about the Davions, the Mariks or the Liaos. Of course the Kuritas are in their own league of cartoonish evil.
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Jan 28, 2011 08:37
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Yeah, up until Katherine "Registered Crazy Bitch" Steiner-Davion took over, the Lyrans never really did anything bad or had any particularly awful leaders. Their nation is financially well-off, they take care of their own, they almost never engage in offensive wars, and they're pretty darned open-minded about other cultures. It's honestly a little weird to see how spotless their record is.
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Jan 28, 2011 08:42
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Well, everyone in power in the 1SW did some really bad poo poo. Steiner is no exception there, and they did open the war by dick punching Marik. Marik stepped it up on Bolan by introducing WMDs but Steiner is considered to have fired the first shot in the Succession Wars. Also more recently they spent ten years wearing black hats because Victor is the designated hero, which is lame because that kid is charisma free. MW4 and Mercs do a pretty clean cut "Davion good, Steiner bad." The thing that divides them generally is that when they have a malicious leader like a Claudius Steiner or Margaret Nin, the problems generally stay internal. Also their legislative body, the Estates General, can issue votes of No Confidence if you gently caress up too bad, which is how Katrina Steiner replaced Alessandro as Archon. Kudos on keying in on Davion imperialism, though. Most people excuse it at first as "liberation" because the DC and CC are "bad guys." Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 08:51 on Jan 28, 2011 |
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Jan 28, 2011 08:47
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Agent Interrobang posted:Yeah, up until Katherine "Registered Crazy Bitch" Steiner-Davion took over, the Lyrans never really did anything bad or had any particularly awful leaders. Their nation is financially well-off, they take care of their own, they almost never engage in offensive wars, and they're pretty darned open-minded about other cultures. It's honestly a little weird to see how spotless their record is. Just goes back to the point I made about entire Houses being colored by their leaders. Katherine Steiner is SO BAD that she makes all the sane leaders before her not count.
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Jan 28, 2011 08:49
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People always go "THOSE drat SPACE NAZIS!" and shake their fists at the Steiners, but conveniently forget it was the Davions who kept launching lightning wars at their neighbors. I mean, hey, I find the Davions entertaining, but they're at least as bad as anybody else.
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Jan 28, 2011 08:51
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All the Skye stuff always made me think Steiner was all about the Byzantine backstabbing akin to the Papel States rather than jackbooted thuggery. They just didn't devolve into civil war like the Free Worlds League seemed to do whenever anybody disagreed about what was for dinner.
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Jan 28, 2011 09:02
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Defiance Industries posted:Well, everyone in power in the 1SW did some really bad poo poo. Steiner is no exception there, and they did open the war by dick punching Marik. Marik stepped it up on Bolan by introducing WMDs but Steiner is considered to have fired the first shot in the Succession Wars. I'm pretty sure you're wrong there. Lord Minoru "Card-Carrying-Villan" Kurita started the Succession Wars with his proclamation, "I'm the ruler of the Inner Sphere and anyone who doesn't like it can suck on laser beams." Jennifer Steiner was the last Successor Lord to declare that she was the First Lord, but since she was on record declaring the Star League had ended with Kerensky's Exodus I get the impression that it was more like, "Okay guys now we're all the First Lord of the Star League lol whatevs." Considering that the Steiners didn't gain any original FWL territory until the 3rd war I kind of doubt they started the fight.
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Jan 28, 2011 09:06
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Bad Moon posted:All the Skye stuff always made me think Steiner was all about the Byzantine backstabbing akin to the Papel States rather than jackbooted thuggery. They just didn't devolve into civil war like the Free Worlds League seemed to do whenever anybody disagreed about what was for dinner. The Papal States and/or the Holy Roman Empire is actually a pretty good analogy for the Lyrans. The Archon is powerful, but not an absolute and total monarch, in the same way as the Pope or Holy Roman Emperor, and the regional lords still hold a good amount of sway. In fact, the reason Katherine Steiner-Davion was so UTTERLY AWFUL was because she was basically the Lyran answer to Rodrigo Borgia, what with her utter abuse of her authority and tendency to take/give away stuff that was not, in fact, technically hers.
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Jan 28, 2011 09:07
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Defiance Industries posted:Kudos on keying in on Davion imperialism, though. Most people excuse it at first as "liberation" because the DC and CC are "bad guys." Honestly the Capellan Confederation come off as more desperate than evil. Sure they've evolved into a military/police state with an iron dictator, but that's because the Mariks and Davions have spent the last 500 years backing them into a corner. The Confederation started out as a fairly robust democracy, as the name implies. (It doesn't help that the Liaos appear to have a strong genetic propensity to bipolar disorder.) The Draconis Combine are just straight-up evil though. Who else would kick off the Succession Wars by targeting civilian centers to the exclusion of military targets just to make a point? Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Jan 28, 2011 |
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Jan 28, 2011 09:23
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Arglebargle III posted:Honestly the Capellan Confederation come off as more desperate than evil. Sure they've evolved into a military/police state with an iron dictator, but that's because the Mariks and Davions have spent the last 500 years backing them into a corner. The Confederation started out as a fairly robust democracy, as the name implies. (It doesn't help that the Liaos appear to have a strong genetic propensity to bipolar disorder.) The Clans
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Jan 28, 2011 09:28
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Arglebargle III posted:I'm pretty sure you're wrong there. Lord Minoru "Card-Carrying-Villan" Kurita started the Succession Wars with his proclamation, "I'm the ruler of the Inner Sphere and anyone who doesn't like it can suck on laser beams." Jennifer Steiner was the last Successor Lord to declare that she was the First Lord, but since she was on record declaring the Star League had ended with Kerensky's Exodus I get the impression that it was more like, "Okay guys now we're all the First Lord of the Star League lol whatevs." Kurita declared himself First Lord, but Steiner fired the first actual shots of the war. As far as gaining territory goes, check this out. Here's the Lyran Commonwealth after the Age of War all the way through to the fall of the Star League:  Click here for the full 1308x1262 image. Here's the Lyran Commonwealth after the First Succession War:  Click here for the full 1382x1328 image. The dotted lines denote historical borders. As you can see, at the dawn of the Succession Wars the Free Worlds League was deep inside the Commonwealth, and if there's one thing Jennifer Steiner did not want inside her, it was a Marik. While the focus of fighting didn't stay on the Marik border for most of the war, things were very nasty on Bolan in particular at the beginning of the 1st War, but throughout the whole Bolan Thumb in general. Things on Bolan melted down so quickly and completely, in fact, that the FWL broke out their nukes and poo poo and went Scorched Earth (which is why RPG characters from around Bolan get Trait/Hate House Marik automatically). Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 10:16 on Jan 28, 2011 |
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Jan 28, 2011 10:08
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Dominus Caedis posted:The Clans I think you've made his point. Draconis Combine: So coal-black evil that only the Clan Invasion can begin to make them look like good guys again. See also: Kentares Massacre. And it's true, Davions were assholes par course for most of the Succession Wars, but that more or less seemed to die out after The Fox croaked. Katrina inherited his assholishness and none of his good qualities and seems to have borrowed a gallon of malice from the Combine for good measure, while Victor inherited all of his good qualities and all of his mother's to boot. She's so tarred the Steiner name that everyone just kind of... Osmosed that the Lyrans were all-out black-hearted evil before her. And then she gets a random deus ex machina save when she should have been facing the gallows or the firing squad when Clan Wolf shows up and are all "you know, that whole Treaty of Tuk-wherever thing is up in a few days and it would be a shame if we decided to start coming over the border like it were 3049 again, wouldn't it? On the other hand, we do have us a strong desire to add Katrina's biological distinctiveness to our own..." What I don't get is, why? Sure, she was the Fox's daughter, but she was also not a MechWarrior; and was in fact a person in the same vein as Stefan Amaris the Usurper. I'd think they'd have been more likely to stick up the Sphere for, say, Victor's genetic material than his malevolent usurper sister. Hell, I'd think they'd be more likely to stick up the Sphere for the genetic material of any random drunkard than Katrina. "Recruiting" her would be like "recruiting" Amaris... My head hurts. Can someone please explain why, the hell, they would do that? 
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Jan 28, 2011 10:19
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Dominus Caedis posted:The Clans Not really? I mean, there are quite a few exceptions to the rule (Edo), but for the most part the entire point of Clan honor duels and zellbringen was to keep collateral damage to a minimum. Unless we're talking 3150's era Clan Jade Falcon or something. Also, I always found Capcom and the Liaos pretty amusing. I mean, the Liao that founded the dynasty was, judging by his description in the old House Book, a chinese/scottish japanophile who hijacked a colony ship. This started a line of very eccentric rulers, who somehow managed to be the people who came the closest to ending the Succession Wars peacefully. And then of course we end up with Maxwell "The Yellow Peril" Liao. 
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Jan 28, 2011 10:21
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:I think you've made his point. Khan Vladimir Ward likes to put his ding dong inside her, as often as possible.
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Jan 28, 2011 10:39
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Defiance Industries posted:Khan Vladimir Ward likes to put his ding dong inside her, as often as possible. That's... Pretty drat excessive to get a sweetheart, isn't it? I'm sure there's a lot of younger, far more athletic and just-as-attractive Wolves whose interests would seem to fall far more in line with Ward's. It's certainly not unknown for Clanners, yes, even Trueborn Warriors, to enjoy sexual relations. And he'd be a lot more certain that she wasn't planning to stab him in the back and claim what was his. If she wanted the job, she'd stab him in the front, and he'd be holding a knife, too, and they'd be surrounded by all their friends. Katrina Steiner-Davion, on the other hand, is pretty much the snakiest snake you'll find outside the Draconis Combine's royal family. Hell, she gives them a run for their money. Deceit, treachery, assassinations, dishonor and everything un-warriorlike are her stocks in trade. What, on Kerensky's green Strahna Mechty, could have possessed him to take such a powerful, insane passion for Katrina Steiner? For crying out loud, the broad's not even that good-looking!  Here she is during the height of her reign, in the year 3061, at the age of 29.  Presumably this is during her time as a Clan Mechwarrior, since I can't imagine the Archon inhabiting environs so drab and mundane, and...  During the Dark Age, so sometime after 3132, at over a century old. I'll grant, she'll age well, but come on! Sure, you could gently (or not-so-gently) caress the witch (even at the centennial mark,) but the face that cold-started a thousand BattleMechs that is not!
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Jan 28, 2011 10:58
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[mooj]It's not about loving and balls and pussy. It's about love. It's about people. It's about CONNECTION. It's not about cock and rear end and tits, and butthole pleasures.[/mooj] Yeah, the thing about Clan rule is if you are good enough at killing people (and Vlad is very, very good) you get to do whatever you want. Someone doesn't like what you're doing? Call him a bitch and then beat him to death in front of everyone. That is not only accepted, it is the entire basis for the Clan system of Jurisprudence. Vlad and Katherine are in lurve. It's kind of a subplot in one of the novels, where he captures her JumpShip and then they bang. And then they keep banging for like the next ten years. I imagine it was fairly emasculating for Victor's best friend Galen, who went so far as to be engaged to her but never got to hit that. On the other hand, his name is Galen and he's friends with Victor; that's extremely emasculating already. Defiance Industries fucked around with this message at 11:11 on Jan 28, 2011 |
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Jan 28, 2011 11:09
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As the Warden Clans assimilate into Inner Sphere society, they might be interested in securing famous IS blood-names and the genetics associated with them. I mean it's not like the Clans fought over the Kerensky blood-name incessantly because of its genetic line. It's a pride thing. Being able to grab the Steiner and Davion blood-names might be quite a feather in Wolf's cap. And at essentially zero cost, since nobody else wanted Katrina anywhere near the Inner Sphere at that point anyway. (Even if they are not technically blood-names because they're not part of the 80 original bloodlines. But that's stupid anyway because if you can't create more and they slowly get wiped out the Trueborn will wither.) edit: the gently caress is a mooj? Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Jan 28, 2011 |
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Jan 28, 2011 11:10
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There is actually already a Steiner bloodname in Clan Cloud Cobra. The current Khan is, in fact, Khan Din Steiner. However, neither of them have any claim to the Archonship, as Bloodhouse Steiner is descended from an illegitimate child, and Katherine was disinherited after the FedCom Civil War, so they are of minimal use. Also, new Bloodnames CAN be created by an ilKhan. Phelan Kell is the most recent example, since he was named the founder of Bloodhouse Kell by Ulric Kerensky as Ulric's last act as ilKhan. So there are a handful of them out there. It's a lot more common after the Jihad, when the Clan Grand Council is apparently disbanded and each Clan's Khan assumes a bunch of the powers only the ilKhan used to have. e: Mooj is the old Pakistani guy from the 40 Year Old Virgin.
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Jan 28, 2011 11:14
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Defiance Industries posted:Bloodhouse Steiner is descended from an illegitimate child, and Katherine was disinherited after the FedCom Civil War, so they are of minimal use. After 500 years of dominating the Inner Sphere, names like Steiner and Davion don't need to be useful per se. Just being a Steiner or a Kurita or a Davion is an end in itself. I can certainly see the Clans being interested in those kinds of names for bragging rights alone. The Clans are still human after all.
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Jan 28, 2011 11:23
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Well, theoretically, but the Clanners hate the Successor Lords almost as much as they do Periphery Realms, because they've decided it was they who brought down the Star League.
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Jan 28, 2011 11:25
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You're thinking about the Kathrine Steiner/Vlad Ward thing in the wrong light. I don't think he was going to invade because she wasn't given to him...I think he was going to make sure the clans didn't invade if she was. Like, he didn't care. He was fine with another Clan invasion, but then they got the girl he was in love with, and he had one card to play, so he played it.
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Jan 28, 2011 11:49
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Defiance Industries posted:[mooj]It's not about loving and balls and pussy. It's about love. It's about people. It's about CONNECTION. It's not about cock and rear end and tits, and butthole pleasures.[/mooj]  Really?!I figured you were just taking the piss. I guess that is the face that cold-started a thousand BattleMechs. (Or maybe caused them to spend the day in the hangar.) What the... The... Gyraaah! She's about as lovable as  crossed with a frozen rattlesnake coated in wyvern venom! And I don't mean physically, either.He must have ejected using his neurohelmet in lieu of explosive bolts to remove the canoopy a few times too many or something, that boy's head is wrong if he seriously, genuinely loves Space Hitlerette! There may be a few people in the setting more reprehensible, more horrible and less deserving of the title "human being" than Katrina, but I am hard-pressed to think of many off the top of my head. Maybe Mr. "I am the new First Lord" Liao and the Draconis asswipe who ordered the population of Kentares massacred because his daddy was stupid enough to go walking around a war-zone in an ordinary officer's uniform, and the guy who decided that instead of preserving the Star League's technology, they should hoard it away from everyone and engage in a vicious campaign of technological stagnation-by-force, but that's about it. My
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Jan 28, 2011 12:15
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:
Well, keep in mind that Vlad is a product of Clan society, which breeds monstrous individuals as a matter of course. He's intrigued by her because she has no reservations about killing someone like a Clanner does, but she does it in such unusual ways.
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Jan 28, 2011 12:39
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Didn't she straight up steal Victor's genetic material and combine it with her own to make a trueborn Wolf Clan warrior to be her 'vengeance' on the Inner Sphere for beating her rear end down with a stick? That was pretty impressively goofball.
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Jan 28, 2011 13:33
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Mukaikubo posted:Didn't she straight up steal Victor's genetic material and combine it with her own to make a trueborn Wolf Clan warrior to be her 'vengeance' on the Inner Sphere for beating her rear end down with a stick? That was pretty impressively goofball. I think I liked this thread and setting better when it was about giant robots shooting each other. >_>
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Jan 28, 2011 13:52
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WarLocke posted:You want to talk hilarious? I once played a game where a Griffin hit a BattleMaster in the head from extreme range after jumping with its PPC, scored a critical, destroyed the cockpit, we rolled to see how it fell and it ended up pitching backwards off of the level 2 cliff it was on and landed on top of the Locust in that hex, crushing that cockpit (and most of the rest of the mech). The next turn my Locust skidded on concrete, slid several hexes and smashed into the building under the Phoenix Hawk. The damage already done meant the Locust's "charge" damage totalled the building, it collapsed, the Phoenix Hawk and Locust take falling debris damage, the Phoenix Hawk taking 5 to the head. This being the second head hit it had taken, the pilot passes out. The Locust is displaced back out of the building hex. The next turn my locust stands up, kicks the Phoenix Hawk, hits the head and takes it right off. He then does a victory lap flapping his little chicken wing arms. Agent Interrobang posted:Yeah, up until Katherine "Registered Crazy Bitch" Steiner-Davion took over, the Lyrans never really did anything bad or had any particularly awful leaders. Their nation is financially well-off, they take care of their own, they almost never engage in offensive wars, and they're pretty darned open-minded about other cultures. It's honestly a little weird to see how spotless their record is. ShadowDragon8685 posted:My head hurts. Can someone please explain why, the hell, they would do that?
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Jan 28, 2011 14:00
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Arquinsiel posted:I once played a game where an AI-controlled Phoenix Hawk jumped onto a building, damaged the building *slightly* and pew-pewed at me at long range. MegaMek is the best when you're fighting in a city. The poor AI has no idea buildings can collapse, from everything I've seen. It'll cheerfully jump right up onto the roof and crash to the ground in a heap, without being provoked. Especially if the roof would give them LoS to an enemy! It is all very logical until the mech explodes. ...wait, we're not playing this LP with the Stackpole Rule on, are we? We've made that clear, right?  quote:I think I liked this thread and setting better when it was about giant robots shooting each other. >_> There is plenty of fun, awesome stuff about the setting, it's just that it's funnier to mock the parts where it all goes horribly, horribly wrong. There are generally enough things to redeem it, at least for me- rather like there's enough awesome about DS9 to redeem Voyager for me.  As for the thread, well, we are still in the "excited kitten" phase of the thread where we are all just so goshdarned happy to be posting about this that we'll yammer over everything that comes into our heads. It'll cool off. We just have to be sure that we cut ourselves off if we start getting angry about any of this (as I have once this thread). 
Mukaikubo fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Jan 28, 2011 |
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Jan 28, 2011 14:04
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Mukaikubo posted:MegaMek is the best when you're fighting in a city. The poor AI has no idea buildings can collapse, from everything I've seen. It'll cheerfully jump right up onto the roof and crash to the ground in a heap, without being provoked. Especially if the roof would give them LoS to an enemy! It is all very logical until the mech explodes. The megamek AI is, however, responsible for the grand tradition of "Warhammer Tipping" practiced by Commandos all over the Inner Sphere, and for that we are eternally grateful. Mukaikubo posted:...wait, we're not playing this LP with the Stackpole Rule on, are we? We've made that clear, right?
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Jan 28, 2011 14:17
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Oh god, I should've taken the advice in this thread and read a book by Stackpole. I told my friend who knows more about Battletech I was interested in reading one of the better books but he insisted that since I played the clicky base mech game as a kid I had to read the first of the "Dark Ages" novels about that setting, called "Ghost War". In the first hundred pages, the first-person, meant-to-be-sympathetic space lumberjack protagonist punches out a college girl's jaw for asking for donations to save the space muskrats (which are described as horrible to make the Space Greenpeace sound dumb). Then later Greenpeace commandos (complete with armed APC) try to blow up his lumberjack mech and he kills fifty of them. Later still the lumberjack company fires him, he's kidnapped and hired by the leader of the space Greenpeace, and gives the girl with the broken jaw a big speech about how she shouldn't be mad at him for the commando's deaths, she should be mad at herself for letting herself get hurt so she couldn't lead them. This is just plain the worst introduction to a setting I have ever read. It's apparently the first of the books set in this "Dark Age" and I can see why people didn't get into it based on the literature. Is this part of the "Nobody's a good guy, everyone's just factions" thing Battletech has going on or is this some weird authour-insert fantasy where the main character gets to beat up a bunch of feminists and environmentalists like he wish he could in real life? *Edit* Just realized the name Stackpole sounded familiar and checked the cover. He wrote this book? This is the 'better' Battletech authour? It gets worse? Oh god. Dolash fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Jan 28, 2011 |
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Jan 28, 2011 14:47
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