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TheGame posted:It's important to remember that ZZW isn't as fast as ZZZ, and so it's possible to curve out to 5+ CMC dudes-- but 1 and 2 drops are incredibly powerful compared to most sets and so it's probably a great idea to take them early. The problem with drafting a slow control strategy in ZZW is that the cards that make control good are all the way in pack 3 (Perimeter Captain, Tideforce Elemental, Chalice, Archon of Redemption, Vapor Snare, Jace :v, etc.). Spending packs 1 and 2 picking up Gomazoas and Makindi Shieldmates only to get cut from the archetype in pack 3 sucks majorly. ZZW could have benefited from being WZZ, like they're doing with Besieged.
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Feb 4, 2011 01:27
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The new reverse order draft thing makes me want to draft some Shards block with my friends.
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Feb 4, 2011 09:31
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Went to a midnight draft that was MBS -> MBS -> SoM, was about as weird as you imagine for that format. P1P1 Burn the Impure out of an otherwise red-less pack. P1P2 Spread the Sickness, nothing crazy red P1P3 Virulent Wound in a pack with the 2/1 artifact infect creature and Plaguemaw Beast P1P4 Blisterstick Shaman but nothing red coming my way, maybe just the packs? P1P5 Priests of Norn, nothing red, 2nd Plaguemaw beast P1P6 Priests of Norn, nothing red, I'm getting cut? P1P7 Tine Shrike P1P8 Scourge Servant I'm pretty solid W/b/g infect, woo! Get a Plaguemaw Beast late, but Did Not See any artifact infect creatures P2P1 Massecure Wyrm P2P2 guy passing hemmed and hawed for hours, I get passed a foil Phyrixian Vatmother. Guess I'm playing black now. Flensermite is painful but goes really well with Copper Carapace 2 Ichor Wellsprings hoping to open Throne of Geth Scars P3P1 Arrest P3P2 Tangle Angler P3P3 Contagious Nim P3P4 Iron Myr in a blank pack, without Mana Myr these cards just won't come aroudn and I might splash red removal? P3P5 Acid Web Spider P3P6 Gold Myr P3P7 Fume Spitter P3P8 Seize the Initiative P3P9 Vector Asp P3P10 Seize the Initiative P3P11 Nihil Spellbomb P3P12 Dross Hopper P3P13 Culling Dias P3P14 Golem Foundry Deck came out to: Fume Spitter Vector Asp Flensermite Gold Myr Iron Myr Contagious Nim Priests of Norn (2) Tangle Angler Tine Shrike Phyrexian Vatmother Scourge Servent Plaguemaw Beast Acid Web Spider (VALUE in 2xMBS draft) Massacre Wurm 15 Creatures Seize the Initiative (2) Virulent Wound Copper Carapace Ichor Wellspring Arrest Spread the Sickness 5 Spells, 2 Artifacts 9 Swamps 4 Forests 5 Plains Match 1 2-0 paired against a guy who drew a whole mess of lands in a semi-metalcraft U/W flies equipment deck with 12-ish artifacts to go with Sunchasers and the U 1/1 tapper. Post-match Discussion comes to adding Ichor Wellspring + Treasure Mage + Razorfield Rhino into deck for random colored crap like a 2nd Stoic Rebuttal. Match 2 2-1 U/R control artifact goodstuff. Game 1 Early Arrest on Neurok Replica but he doesn't draw the island for it to matter before he's dead. Game 2 stall on board and I play a WAY too early Massacre Wurm and nearly kill him with damage anyway. Bluff a stupid swing with Massacre Wurm that I have Seize the Initiative, he calls and I lose the card and the game. Game 3 I go land-land-Priests of Norn - Copper Carapace equip attack, attack. Seems fair. Gets on tilt when I say I "taste the rainbow" when I lay my third land of all three types, dude is pretty easy to play after that, he plays out spells and gets two Serum Rakers on the field and goes to town. Double bounce card is The Nuts. He goes all-in on attacking with two Serum Rakers when I am at 11 and I virulent wound so that only 5 damage is dealt. He lands Wurmcoil Engine. I draw Arrest off the top, double check, and attack for the win. Have to draft good cards to play good cards, etc. Match 3 Game 1 Aggro G/R metal-ish? Playing a bunch of x/1s which don't matter. He misplays casting with wrong lands Liquidmetal coating, he exiles my Tangle Angler the next turn. Plays the fatty 5/5s and destroys all artifacts and loses with 38 life and 10 poison counters, thanks to Massacre Wurm. Game 2 I keep a slow hand, lose. Game 3 never in it, attacking with a 3/7 Priest of Norn is real good. Acid Web Spider blocks, sac with Plaguemaw Beast twice for the last 2 counters. go home with a bunch of packs. thoughts: I played more Seize the Initiatives in this deck than I think I ever did ever. Infect+First Strike + Pump for 1? Good times. Priests of Norn cannot be over-rated. A replacement Cystbearer. Tine Shrike is significantly worse. Massacre Wurm- Crazy Good Slower infect decks with Green Dinosaurs is very playable if you have the high end, myr, and Plaguemaw Beast. Flensermite + Copper Carapace C-C-COMBO
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Feb 5, 2011 00:15
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Is it just me, or have Serum Raker and Vedalken Anatomist single-handedly (double-handedly?) made blue better in draft?
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Feb 5, 2011 00:21
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Vedalken Anatomist and the new mind control are the best non-rare cards for limited in the set. They're also better than a whole bunch of the rares.
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Feb 5, 2011 02:02
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I am still not too convinced about blue commons, but the blue decks I saw in release got a fairly good dose of power from the MBS power uncommons (Corrupted Conscience, Vedalken Anatomist). I'd rank Kuldotha Flamefiend above those on the uncommon cart, but that's mostly because that card is just sick. -- Did the release tournament, had considerably more fun than in the prerelease (2-1 drop). Opened a solid, if not too bomby pool (http://pastebin.com/V6SqJRA4) and played it to 4-1 finish. Most importantly, faced pretty decent variety of decks in the winning bracket at least, which made it a lot less boring than prerelease, or pure Scars sealed. Quickly looking at the pool: Kuldotha Flamefiend and Mimic Vat were the only real bomby cards of the bunch. Flamefiend is sick and I always got good value for him, and while Mimic Vat takes a bit of work to go bomb all the way, it can simply break poo poo with the right imprint (like, say, Kuldotha Flamefiend!) and just absolute blast to play every time. Red was easy shoe-in. Flamefiend plus good dose of red removal is not something to pass. Blisterstick Shaman is one MVP common, the ping most of the time has a relevant target and 2/1 ain't irrelevant body. Did not need that much help for red plus artifacts, so had a pretty free hand in choosing secondary colour. Finally it was a toss between white and black, with Sangromancer a nice inclusion in the deck. 3/3 flier for 4 is solid, and the ability can easily break a race against damage deck. Final deck was something like this: code:R1, 2-0 against BR. Opponent floods out of G1. G2 Kuldotha Phoenix with Piston Sledge is almost too much to handle, but I manage to chump some time until I draw answer for it. Irritatingly, had Mimic Vat standing in hand but simply couldn't find a spot where to play it, so the Phoenix remained a pretty massive threat looming in the grave until I manage to drop opponent to zero. R2, 2-0 against RW. G1 goes to a damage race, and here Sangromancer does her trick. Opponent was dropping Battlesphere and blinking it with Stag, which almost gets out of hand. G2 goes to another even race, where I manage to come out on top. R3, 2-0 against UW. Bullet dodging time. I knew opponent had both Elspeth and Consecrated Sphinx, but he kept soft, land heavy, seven card hands in both his games which I guess cost him. I could develop my board pretty strongly to midgame and aggro him out before he had chance to draw and stabilize with heavy hitters. R4, 2-0 against BG, oddly enough 50/50 damage and poison and at 3-0. G1 opponent is stuck on four lands with Spread the Sickness in hand. G2 he pretty much hands the game to me: first blocking so that I get to Mimic Vat his Ezuri's Archers, then attacking 4/4 flier straight to the Archers with Mimic Vat mana open, and finally miscounting his double Unnatural Predation on Mirran Hydra and Flesh-Eater Imp to put me on 9 poison exactly with no-one to block lethals next turn. R5, 0-2 against RW. G1 I get Phoenixed and Sunblasted and don't recover. G2 he plays Thopter Assembly which I remove, only to have it Hippogriffed back, and just cant compete in air even when I manage to remove the Thopter Assembly again later. Started on the draw every time when given choice in these matches, and it felt like the right choice. I had the card advantage tools and removal to mostly grind it out early and midgame and trade favorably. Against the UW deck I would have gone from play if given choice after G1, I did some sideboarding to more aggressive direction for G2. One event is pretty small amount to draw conclusions from, but for now it does feel like MBS did freshen up the sealed enough that I'll stomach it for some release tournaments at least. And pretty stoked for our prep draft for our PT Paris participant tomorrow, really interested to see how new pack 1 plays out! Edit: Oh yeah, the kid next to me opens two Tezzeret from his MBS packs in sealed. 
Lunsku fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Feb 5, 2011 |
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Feb 5, 2011 22:23
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I went to the release yesterday and opened up a pool with almost no removal to speak of. My removal consisted of Skinrender, Molten-Tail Masticore (who is of course ridiculous), Divine Offering, and 3 Virulent Wounds (which are pretty good but not great). Other notable cards were Bonehoard, Argentum Armor, and Sangomancer. I went 3-0-1 to get into top 8, where I was promptly destroyed by the guy I beat in round 1. His deck was significantly better than mine and had Kemba, Bonehoard, Mortapod + Furnace Celebration, and Sword of Feast and Famine. The only reason I beat him the first round is because Masticore is horrifically overpowered. In game 2 of top 8 I thought I had stabilized at 16 life with Sangormancer + Masticore out (only 2 mana open), and he EOT plays Master's Call giving himself metalcraft, then plays Concussive Bolt and kills me exactly. It turned out ok though, my three prize packs contained Tezzeret and Inkmoth Nexus. Later we did a MBS-MBS-SoM draft, in which I got 4 Rot Wolves and a few other infect guys, and lucked into a Hand of the Praetors in pack 3. The sick Limited combo of the night was Disperse + Unnatural Predation. Also Flesh-Eater Imp + Bonehoard is usually a OHKO. I had a choice in pack 2 between Flesh-Eater Imp and Phyrexian Vatmother, and I picked the Imp. I'm pretty sure I made the right choice. Lets Pickle fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Feb 6, 2011 |
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Feb 6, 2011 18:09
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Drafted MBS - SOM - SOM today. Was a lot of fun, despite drafting a mediocre UG deck and going 1-2. Two BG Infect decks played for the top spot, given that I played against another (unfocused) BG Infect and personally picked up two Blightwidow for blocking duty, the table pool was a bit strange... G1 I play against one of the final decks. Stoic Rebuttal his Skithiryx, which he brings back with Corpse Cur, and when I trade for the Cur and counter Skithiryx again he Morbid Plunders. Wasn't coming back from that.
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Feb 6, 2011 19:37
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MBS-SOM-SOM into a monored deck with key players being Hero of Oxid Ridge, Into the Core, and Kuldotha Ringleaders. Also peppered with things like Melt Terrain (stopped a Thrun from getting in for a whole game), Cerebral Eruption (sort of a luck bomb), Koth's Courier (everyone had green!) and Rally the Forces for that upper hand! Having played this today, mono color sure is a really nice way to play, I played with 14 mountains I think. Less than the average amount, but being mono and the highest cc at 5, mana screw was kind of hard to encounter. Came in second, got steamrolled by Training Drones and Tumble Magnets 
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Feb 7, 2011 12:04
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Training Drone is just so loving bad, how do you lose to it?
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Feb 8, 2011 10:53
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It's bad for sure, in the context that I wouldn't try drafting it because the chance for it being dead or me being forced to play sub-par equipment to to make it even semi reliable is pretty high. But still some deck every now and then will play it, hit its equipment, and if you don't have answer for what might be 4/4, flying, first strike at that point, you very well might lose to it.
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Feb 8, 2011 11:53
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At the prerelease any time I saw my opponent play a maindecked Training Drone or Shriekhorn I knew I was going to win.
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Feb 8, 2011 17:48
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Kadath posted:At the prerelease any time I saw my opponent play a maindecked Training Drone or Shriekhorn I knew I was going to win. Unless you saw Grindclock.DecimatorWeb.Screeching Silcaw.dek
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Feb 8, 2011 18:07
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I will gimmick draft Shriekhorn.dec when Besieged hits MTGO for sure and there are triple Besieged release drafts
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Feb 8, 2011 18:22
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Lunael posted:It's bad for sure, in the context that I wouldn't try drafting it because the chance for it being dead or me being forced to play sub-par equipment to to make it even semi reliable is pretty high. But still some deck every now and then will play it, hit its equipment, and if you don't have answer for what might be 4/4, flying, first strike at that point, you very well might lose to it. The problem I have with Training Drone is essentially the problem I have with the (majority White) Metalcraft combat creatures: it reverses the entire advantage of equipment by turning them into expensive enchantments. Normally, you're happy to just play something like Darksteel Axe or Sylvok Lifestaff and attach it to your dude and go to town. But with one artifact removal spell you're not only losing the bonus but the creature is essentially dead as well unless you spend another decent chunk of mana and have the right card in hand.
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Feb 8, 2011 18:27
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OfChristandMen posted:Unless you saw Grindclock.DecimatorWeb.Screeching Silcaw.dek Tru-life: I milled someone with decimator web at the release (it was win-more, I was gripping phyrexian juggernaut and the 2/1 infect flyer x2 and a spread the sickness and I already had a good handle on the board.)
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Feb 8, 2011 18:40
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Lunael posted:I will gimmick draft Shriekhorn.dec when Besieged hits MTGO for sure and there are triple Besieged release drafts Oh there are definitely ways to work Shriekhorn. That vedelken that adds charge counters and blocks like a champ, the Stag, or any of the other ways to keep them up and running are not terrible, especially on top of the other mill options out there now. Would be entirely possible to draft a ballin mill deck. But in Sealed? No, that poo poo sucks.
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Feb 8, 2011 18:56
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The March Hare posted:Tru-life: I milled someone with decimator web at the release (it was win-more, I was gripping phyrexian juggernaut and the 2/1 infect flyer x2 and a spread the sickness and I already had a good handle on the board.) Tru-Life: I Boarded out my sub par infect deck vs. heavy Metal Craft decks at the pre-release into Decimator Web.deck. Card can win drawn out sealed games.
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Feb 8, 2011 18:57
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Kadath posted:At the prerelease any time I saw my opponent play Shriekhorn I knew I was going to win. This. I had two corpse curs. "Hello, Phyrexian Vatmother. Hello, Phyrexian Juggernaut. Oh, now you're out of Shriekhorn counters? You don't have any other mill cards? Kay, Good game." The March Hare posted:Tru-life: I milled someone with decimator web at the release (it was win-more, I was gripping phyrexian juggernaut and the 2/1 infect flyer x2 and a spread the sickness and I already had a good handle on the board.) Decimator Web got me a mill win. I was infect and playing another infect deck. I have a couple poison counters and attack with all my dudes. He has a plague stinger up and doesn't block. I web him and pass. Next turn he can't draw and has an untamed might in hand with 9 lands up on his side. Made me have a little giggle fit. DoctorJones fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Feb 8, 2011 |
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Feb 8, 2011 20:26
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 How high you would expect to pick this in draft? Assume redrafting rares or recording rares you opened, that is no thought for the financial value. We had a bit of discussion about this and divided opinion in our weekend draft. One player playing it in draft final got it third pick and thought it was way late, the other playing against him wasn't as shocked and put it at about the same level with Plague Stinger - something you happily picked p1p1 in Triple Scars, but not something that is surprising to come after power rares, uncommons and grade A removal have been picked. I kinda go with the Plague Stinger evaluation. Pros: with no GG or BB creatures you get it out early without slowing your other board development at all, and it dodges sorcery speed removal in most situations. Cons: attacking is essentially at cost of 2, and power boosting equipment is very unwieldy to use with it.
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Feb 8, 2011 22:03
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Lunael posted:
While I definitely still want a playset of these, I agree with you. I don't think it deserves to be drafted very high at all.
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Feb 8, 2011 22:08
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I think Inkmoth Nexus is a more dependable early pick than Plague Stinger because a hard-core Metalcraft drafter (is it possible to set yourself up as one with just MBS?) might just pick it up as a minor Liquidmetal Coating effect as well. I've seen pack 1 pick 7 plague stingers in otherwise shallow packs before.
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Feb 8, 2011 22:19
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Lunael posted:
I would pick it over any infect card in the pack. It allows you to swing earlier with an infect dude than any other card does. It doesn't die to the myriad of sorcery speed removal (the new goblin, arc trail, embersmith, arrest, slag, etc etc). It doesn't take a spell slot either. I'd take other infect rares over it (vatmother hello) but that's not going to happen.
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Feb 8, 2011 23:06
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I'd take it at around pick 4 when I'm not drafting Infect (depending on other cards in the pack, of course) It contributes to Metalcraft, sacrifices to Piston Sledge and Kuldotha Firefiend, blocks Plague Stinger and Tine Shrike, and untaps with Heavy Arbalest, much like Glint Hawk Idol.
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Feb 8, 2011 23:12
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Sigma-X posted:It allows you to swing earlier with an infect dude than any other card does.
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Feb 9, 2011 04:27
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If Vector Asp was a 0 cost creature, would that make it decent?
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Feb 9, 2011 06:18
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Sigma-X posted:I would pick it over any infect card in the pack. I would probably pick it after Flesh-Eater Imp, Viridian Corrupter, Phyrexian Juggernaut, of the pure Infect non-rares.
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Feb 9, 2011 06:29
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inkblot posted:If Vector Asp was a 0 cost creature, would that make it decent? Probably not. Unless you have 2+ in your opening hand (and really, who wants to draft infinitevectorasps.dec?), a 0 cost Vector Asp plays exactly the same as a 1 cost Vector Asp.
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Feb 9, 2011 06:37
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Lunael posted:I would probably pick it after Flesh-Eater Imp, Viridian Corrupter, Phyrexian Juggernaut, of the pure Infect non-rares. Imp and corrupter are pretty awesome, but I'd rather have my removal-ducking flier. They're definitely high on the list, though. Juggernaut is really slow. I'm not saying you cut him, but you don't grab him that highly.
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Feb 9, 2011 06:40
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I think it's huge enough beatstick for the price that I'd bet on him that early. 6 is not too slow for the format.
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Feb 9, 2011 07:05
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Chajusong posted:Probably not. Unless you have 2+ in your opening hand (and really, who wants to draft infinitevectorasps.dec?), a 0 cost Vector Asp plays exactly the same as a 1 cost Vector Asp. Er, a 0 cost Vector Asp would be strictly superior to Memnite. It would definitely be played. In Kuldotha Red instead of infect, but played  edit: argh, missed that this was the Limited thread. Nah, 0 cost Vector Asp would still be unexciting, and still one of the worse Infect creatures. Ashenai fucked around with this message at 11:11 on Feb 9, 2011 |
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Feb 9, 2011 11:08
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Lunael posted:I think it's huge enough beatstick for the price that I'd bet on him that early. 6 is not too slow for the format. I'd take him even if I don't end up in Infect. He's too much of a threat to ignore.
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Feb 9, 2011 16:06
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I believe that Divine Offering is too good for the format, especially in Sealed where you are likely to see multiples. In any matchup where the opponent is seeking to kill you by damage it is a superstar, sniping out key cards such as Golem Artisan, any of the good Trigons, etc., while simultaneously inflating your life total a fair amount, all at instant speed. It's even good against the new infect decks, as they are likely to be playing Phyrexian Juggernaut, Piston Sledge, Viridian Claw, and Plague and Ichorclaw Myr, among other targets. Between it and Fangren Marauder, as well as Sangromancer and Victory's Herald at rare, it makes attempting to win by damage a lot less appealing then just forcing infect and running with it.
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Feb 9, 2011 22:23
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MizuZero posted:I believe that Divine Offering is too good for the format, especially in Sealed where you are likely to see multiples. It's definitely a lot better in sealed than draft (less competitive Infect decks than in draft making the lifegain matter almost certainly, likely more equipment and artifacts in general). But I definitely wouldn't call it too good. Especially when multiples in any given pool is not that common (~7% to have 2+ of specific Mirran/Phyrexian common in average MBS-SOM sealed pool, unless my spergsense is off).
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Feb 9, 2011 23:01
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It's too good not because of its raw power level, but in the sense that its presence in the set provides a very strong incentive to draft or build an infect deck over a conventional one.
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Feb 9, 2011 23:11
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MizuZero posted:It's too good not because of its raw power level, but in the sense that its presence in the set provides a very strong incentive to draft or build an infect deck over a conventional one. You are right that this is what happens in sealed (and to a point in draft); that is a good thing! We don't need even fewer reasons to play infect in sealed than we already have.
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Feb 10, 2011 00:19
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Gerund posted:Training Drone is just so loving bad, how do you lose to it? He drafted a bunch of equipments like Viridian Claw and Piston Sledge It hurt And the time I got my artifact removal (Into the Core) he had two training drones on the field, each with different equips. He was also running more on the side of control (Tumbles and Anatomists)
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Feb 10, 2011 03:29
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Training Drone + Piston Sledge is kind of like a wonky Alpha Tyranax. Not saying Training Drone is good but if you get your nut draws he can be a pain.
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Feb 10, 2011 04:09
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mango sentinel posted:Training Drone + Piston Sledge is kind of like a wonky Alpha Tyranax. Not saying Training Drone is good but if you get your nut draws he can be a pain. Viridian claw doesn't help much. First strike with 4 toughness made things a little difficult for me.
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Feb 10, 2011 05:11
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I've yet to see Training Drone on the other side of the table. Which is odd, as I've seen other people have to contend with it a lot, and a bladed pinions and piston sledged training drone is a mean dude. It just gets shut down super easy.
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Feb 10, 2011 05:15
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