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Also lets be honest Iraq has never been about or ever will be about freedom for the Iraqi people.
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Feb 22, 2011 06:45
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Lareous posted:I agree. The Egypt thing was sort-of-but-not-really-surprising, but the ripple effect has been goddamned amazing. I'd never have thought people would have stood up to Muammar al-Gaddafi.
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Feb 22, 2011 06:46
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Toplowtech posted:It would be funny if a far-away non-muslim country would revolt just after al-Gaddafi is removed from power. A country like Cuba.
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Feb 22, 2011 06:48
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Suntory BOSS posted:It just occurred to me that these protests would certainly have taken down Saddam Hussein by now, had the US not invaded. I honestly doubt that Saddam would've gone down that easily, for the same reason that Syria hasn't risen up in any real way. Saddam would've responded in a manner that makes Qaddafi look like a kitten, and would've had the advantage of the ability to stir up sectarian strife that the King of Bahrain is doing (telling the mostly-Sunni government/military that they will lose all their privileges and power if the mostly-Shia protestors take over). Saddam clearly proved over the years that he had no compunction to resort to truly ghastly tactics (Halajba is a pretty good analogy to what Qaddafi's doing now, and having helicopters mow down protestors was pretty much patented by his response to the post-Gulf War uprisings).
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Feb 22, 2011 06:48
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Toplowtech posted:It would be funny if a far-away non-muslim country would revolt just after al-Gaddafi is removed from power. A country like Cuba. Of all places, why Cuba? I could see a place in Central America maybe. It's more likely to spread to Bumfuck Sub-Sahara Africa.
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Feb 22, 2011 06:48
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Mattimer posted:I think you've been roped in by American propaganda re: Cuba From like 10 years ago. Cuba's actually doing well on it's own last I heard.
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Feb 22, 2011 06:49
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Suntory BOSS posted:It just occurred to me that these protests would certainly have taken down Saddam Hussein by now, had the US not invaded. Yes, if you can neatly shoehorn that situation into this one, that would be correct. You have to consider what started these waves of protests. Then the cable leaks before that? What started those? The cables would have definitely been different if there were no invasions. What if the US never to the mideast in such an intrusive manner? Then what?
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Feb 22, 2011 06:49
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TO UNDERAGE GYMNASTS
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Suntory BOSS posted:It just occurred to me that these protests would certainly have taken down Saddam Hussein by now, had the US not invaded. That isn't necessarily true at all. Just because Iraq is an Arab country doesn't mean Hussein's Iraq was anything like Egypt or Tunisia.
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Feb 22, 2011 06:51
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At this point I really really really want the united nations to intervene. Please stop this massacre. Please!
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Feb 22, 2011 06:56
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Mattimer posted:I think you've been roped in by American propaganda re: Cuba
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Feb 22, 2011 06:56
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Suntory BOSS posted:It just occurred to me that these protests would certainly have taken down Saddam Hussein by now, had the US not invaded.
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Feb 22, 2011 06:59
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Even if Saddam mowed people down by the thousands, the death toll would still pale in comparison to that of the invasion. Worse case scenario would be if he stirred up sectarian strife and led the country towards a civil war, but that actually happened with the invasion anyway. I don't want to start a derail for a passing "it would have been nice" observation though, especially since there's no way to accurately assess what might have been.
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Feb 22, 2011 07:00
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I love how the markets all go. Hey there is unrest in the mid-east. Time to jack up the price of oil!!!
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Feb 22, 2011 07:03
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Times posted:At this point I really really really want the united nations to intervene. Please stop this massacre. Please! Absolutely, but I think that it should be NATO that goes in. They are far more effective at military action, then after things calm down the UN can send in the Peace troopers.
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Feb 22, 2011 07:03
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tere posted:I love how the markets all go. Hey there is unrest in the mid-east. Time to jack up the price of oil!!! The price movement is actually rather rational in this case because Libya and Algeria are rather large oil suppliers and I would not be surprised if Gadaffi begins lighting his wells on fire in a final desperate gamble.
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Feb 22, 2011 07:07
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MJB posted:You're right. And as for The Colonel himself, even he's been inconsistent in spelling it when he's occasionally signed things in English. Yeah, not only can transliteration be tricky, but it doesn't help that his name is pronounced several different ways in Arabic. Patter Song posted:"I went to talk to the young people in Green Square. I wanted to spend the night with them, but it started raining. I want you to know that I am in Tripoli, not in Venezuela. Do not believe the imperialist media." I think he actually referred to them as the "dog" media.  Anyone have a clue why those fighters went to Malta rather than Tunisia or Egypt?
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Feb 22, 2011 07:07
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I really doubt that UN intervention is coming. Where are my local idiots getting the whole "this is step one of establishing a global Islamic caliphate" thing from?
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Feb 22, 2011 07:08
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Giant Squid posted:Where are my local idiots getting the whole "this is step one of establishing a global Islamic caliphate" thing from? Glenn Beck probably. Seriously.
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Feb 22, 2011 07:09
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Scorchy posted:Glenn Beck probably. Seriously. I'm pretty sure Iran was announcing the protests/revolt in Egypt was an "Islamic" movement/revolt/uprising. These two entities together in this endeavor makes me curious in a way I've not thought about previously.
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Feb 22, 2011 07:14
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SauceNinja posted:I'm pretty sure Iran was announcing the protests/revolt in Egypt was an "Islamic" movement/revolt/uprising. These two entities together in this endeavor makes me curious in a way I've not thought about previously. That's only because Iran's trying to deflect attention away from the suppression of their own protesters.
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Feb 22, 2011 07:17
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Giant Squid posted:Where are my local idiots getting the whole "this is step one of establishing a global Islamic caliphate" thing from? Scorchy posted:Glenn Beck probably. Seriously. Glenn Beck's official position is that these riots are caused by an alliance of the savage Caliphate-seeking Musselman horde, the Shadowy (totally not Jewish) Cabal of International Bankers led by George Soros (Nazi Jew), and the ever-present Neo-Soviet Communists in an attempt to overthrow friendly dictatorships and DESTROY AMERICA!!!!!!@! Slantedfloors fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Feb 22, 2011 |
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Feb 22, 2011 07:18
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Frackmire posted:Absolutely, but I think that it should be NATO that goes in. They are far more effective at military action, then after things calm down the UN can send in the Peace troopers. While NATO is better at military actions, I don't think it would take NATO levels of coordination/ability to drive out the mercenaries and loyalist scum that are causing the trouble. Even if it was united (and it thankfully is not), Libya's army is not even close to a probable threat to any UN peacekeeping force. Regardless, I can't help but feel that inaction on the part of the West is inexcusable. When a military begins air strikes on its own people... 
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Feb 22, 2011 07:20
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Times posted:At this point I really really really want the united nations to intervene. Please stop this massacre. Please! Oh to be young and full of such youthful idealism. 
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Feb 22, 2011 07:20
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de_dust posted:Oh to be young and full of such youthful idealism. You win this thread! Spot on.
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Feb 22, 2011 07:26
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Slantedfloors posted:Glenn Beck's official position is that these riots are caused by an alliance of the savage Caliphate-seeking Musselman horde, the Shadowy (totally not Jewish) Cabal of International Bankers led by George Soros (Nazi Jew), and the ever-present Neo-Soviet Communists in an attempt to overthrow friendly dictatorships and DESTROY AMERICA!!!!!!@! I hope your serious because this is loving awesome. You or whomever wrote that should write speeches used to confuse people. It a fun word puzzle! SauceNinja fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Feb 22, 2011 |
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Feb 22, 2011 07:28
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SauceNinja posted:I hope your serious because this is loving awesome. You or whomever wrote that should write speeches used to confuse people. It a fun word puzzle!
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Feb 22, 2011 07:32
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Jesus loving christ, I knew Gaddafi was a nutjob but loving BOMBING PEOPLE INDISCRIMINATELY? gently caress man, talk about ratcheting up the crazy. I hope that, when the Libyans have ousted this prick, that they capture him and let him rot in a lovely cell for the rest of his miserable life. Killing him would be far too kind.
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Feb 22, 2011 07:33
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Gonkish posted:Jesus loving christ, I knew Gaddafi was a nutjob but loving BOMBING PEOPLE INDISCRIMINATELY? gently caress man, talk about ratcheting up the crazy. Tear off all his toenails, cut his flesh and force him to bathe in a tub of hydrogen peroxide till his skin sloughs off. Then dry and salt him like jerky. What other horrible tortures can we imagine for the worst of our planet?
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Feb 22, 2011 07:42
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Sivias posted:Tear off all his toenails, cut his flesh and force him to bathe in a tub of hydrogen peroxide till his skin sloughs off. Then dry and salt him like jerky. What other horrible tortures can we imagine for the worst of our planet? 00:00 to 00:54. Edit: But then again, he's probably ordered a few of these in his day. He'd see them coming. MJB fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Feb 22, 2011 |
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Feb 22, 2011 07:51
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de_dust posted:Oh to be young and full of such youthful idealism.  Edit: why the gently caress is his finger on the trigger?
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Feb 22, 2011 07:53
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The-Mole posted:
It's Africa
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Feb 22, 2011 07:56
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Giant Squid posted:I really doubt that UN intervention is coming. The UN is useless. How long did they allow the massacre of the tutsi at the hands of the hutus.
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Feb 22, 2011 07:59
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tere posted:The UN is useless. How long did they allow the massacre of the tutsi at the hands of the hutus. They did nothing.
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Feb 22, 2011 08:00
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Yaos posted:You're assuming that everything would have happened the same way over the last decade had those wars not taken place. You can't look at past events, remove them, but still have all the effects they caused take place. We have no way of knowing what would have occurred if those wars had not taken place. Everything could have happened exactly the same, minus the wars, or it could be completely different. The only way to stop the wars would be to have Gore be president, and we have no way of knowing how he would have helped or impeded the causes of the protests. The US would probably have a republican president right now had the economic crisis occurred while Gore was president, and we have no way of knowing what stupid poo poo they would have done to "help" the protesters. I'm glad someone made this point so I didn't have to. Positing any counterfactual as some sort of cautionary tale is really bad history.
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Feb 22, 2011 08:04
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Sivias posted:Tear off all his toenails, cut his flesh and force him to bathe in a tub of hydrogen peroxide till his skin sloughs off. Then dry and salt him like jerky. What other horrible tortures can we imagine for the worst of our planet? gently caress torture, there's no reason to debase ourselves. Just throw him in a cell with Never Going to Give You Up on infinite loop at a low volume.
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Feb 22, 2011 08:11
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The-Mole posted:gently caress torture, there's no reason to debase ourselves. Just throw him in a cell with Never Going to Give You Up on infinite loop at a low volume. There's always this NWS http://www.toxicjunction.com/get.asp?i=V3860 NWS
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Feb 22, 2011 08:19
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I highly doubt Gaddafi will be in UN custody.
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Feb 22, 2011 08:19
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tere posted:The UN is useless. How long did they allow the massacre of the tutsi at the hands of the hutus. Maybe France will set up a safe zone for the Gadaffi loyalists once they start to really lose like in Rwanda.
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Feb 22, 2011 08:22
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tere posted:I love how the markets all go. Hey there is unrest in the mid-east. Time to jack up the price of oil!!! As mentioned, expected since some of these countries like Libya are big oil exporters. It's things like this that might make events spiral into more protests once the increased oil cost seeps into added transportation costs for goods. Food supply and cost has been one of the major problems in many of these protested regions it seems, and increased food prices can't help anything.
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Feb 22, 2011 08:27
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The-Mole posted:Edit: why the gently caress is his finger on the trigger? I think it may be on the trigger guard.
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Feb 22, 2011 08:38
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