Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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Gravy Jones: Sep 13, 2003; I am not on your side

ChaosSamusX posted:

Wait, destroying blood? I can't conceive of any reason why someone would stoop to that level of depravity. This is the kind of thing that would appall some of the worst war criminals in history. Who's doing it? The mercenaries?

Wait, we're talking about people who are being accused of indiscriminately raping and murdering and as far as depravity goes destroying blood is "stooping"? I mean it's certainly pretty hosed up, but as far as appalling war crimes go I'll take it over executing civilians.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 15:46

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 12:02

Verizian: Dec 18, 2004; The spiky one.

Sleepless Dreamer posted:

Sorry about breaking the flow of the conversation, but I have a question about the Egyptian revolution. Well, not really a question.

So I'm talking about this with a friend, and he remains convinced that some group or person paid off the Egyptian military so that they would overthrow Mubarak, but he says that with a complete lack of evidence other than the fact that "they didn't do it sooner." Other than ask him for evidence, and explaining that the military in Egypt is not what we commonly think of military under a dictator, I can't seem to come up with an argument that will convince him.

Fake edit:

He thinks the army was paid off by the Americans... As if Egyptians could not do this on their own.

Only response is to explain that his line of thinking proves he's a racist and ask if he'd like to try and rationally discuss his hatred of brown people to try and cure himself. Bonus points if you put on a headband and pull a tambourine out of a bag while talking in a very gentle voice then break into song about Jesus and multiculturalism.
Honestly your friend is a moron just use this as an excuse to gently caress with his head.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 15:47

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

quote:

The UN security council is meeting on the Libya unrest, and German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle has hinted at what the outcome might be: "We call on the Libyan government to stop, immediately, violence against its own citizens. If Libya continues to use force against its own people, sanctions will become inevitable."

Oooh, sanctions, that'll stop him from butchering his own people.

quote:

Reuters is reporting that Gaddafi is going to announce a plan to devolve power to local governments in his speech today.

It sounds like power has already been devolved to local government in the east of the country already.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 15:49

Slantedfloors: Apr 29, 2008; Wait, What?

Sleepless Dreamer posted:

Actually, how the hell do I convince him that he is wrong.

Why bother? He's already ignoring pretty much every piece of evidence in favour of his fake conspiracy theory that makes no sense, why do you think you can convince him?

# ? Feb 22, 2011 15:49

Pureauthor: Jul 8, 2010; ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST

You could try asking why he thinks America would pay to have one of their biggest allies remvoed from power.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 15:58

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

Gravy Jones posted:

Wait, we're talking about people who are being accused of indiscriminately raping and murdering and as far as depravity goes destroying blood is "stooping"? I mean it's certainly pretty hosed up, but as far as appalling war crimes go I'll take it over executing civilians.

If someone you loved was going to die without a blood transfusion, you'd consider it just as bad.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:00

Slantedfloors: Apr 29, 2008; Wait, What?

Ask him why the US waited until all of their credibility was gone and their claims of impartialness were being mocked.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:01

rare Magic card l00k: Jan 3, 2011

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I know Egypt's fallen, and Libya looks to be on the verge of it, but after those two which government looks like it's closest to falling? Or does nobody have any idea because who knows which country's people will be inspired by Libya falling?

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:01

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

It's hard to say really, if Libya does fall it'll show other countries that even if your being massacred in the streets you can still overthrow the government, which might make other protesters go further than they would have done in the past.
I mean, this time last week if you had said Libya would be next you'd be laughed at.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:03

Suntory BOSS: Apr 17, 2006

Brown Moses posted:

It sounds like power has already been devolved to local government in the east of the country already.

Like Mubarak before him, Qaddafi is going through a very difficult time. There are easily recognized stages that he will have to progress through.

Denial: I am here by will of the people and will die on ____'s soil.
Anger: The people are trying to make me die on _____'s soil! Respond with violence and brutality.
Bargaining: Alright, sorry about the warplanes and AA fire. Here, have some meaningless concessions to smooth things over.
Depression: It only made them madder! Oh, what did I ever do to deserve this?
Acceptance: Allies fleeing. International pressure rising. Loyal bodyguards starting to get that look in their eyes. Maybe retiring to a life of wealth and luxury wouldn't be a living hell after all...

Note: Acceptance is considered interchangeable with Death.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:04

Lustful Man Hugs: Jul 18, 2010

The thing is, you could rationalise killing protesters by saying you're preventing a dangerous revolution or stopping rioting or someother bullshit reasoning, but destroying blood in a hospital is in no way something that can be rationalised into something good, or even something neutral. By doing that, you're evil insanse, or evil beyond any hope of salvation.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:06

rare Magic card l00k: Jan 3, 2011

Obviously the rationale is that it will crush the morale of the protesters.

However, the downside is that if the people are determined to get rid of you, it can lead to:

Suntory BOSS posted:

Depression: It only made them madder! Oh, what did I ever do to deserve this?

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:08

Slantedfloors: Apr 29, 2008; Wait, What?

Great White Hope posted:

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I know Egypt's fallen, and Libya looks to be on the verge of it, but after those two which government looks like it's closest to falling? Or does nobody have any idea because who knows which country's people will be inspired by Libya falling?

The only other regime in the same amount of trouble right now is Bahrain, but in all honesty, that one's probably going to stay in power because the protesters can be butchered in the streets and no one will care in the army will care because they're the wrong sect.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:10

spikenigma: Nov 13, 2005; by Ralp

It's a shame that there's a high possibility that Gaddhafi will die surrounded by loved ones at a ripe old age in a foreign country.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:11

Jut: May 16, 2005; by Ralp

spikenigma posted:

It's a shame that there's a high possibility that Gaddhafi will die surrounded by loved ones at a ripe old age in a foreign country.

muh, he's not going anywhere. He will either crush the revolution or be taken out himself.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:12

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

More from Twitter:
Reports indicating Gaddafi's security forces are taking young Libyans out to the Green Square by force.

Libya deputy UN ambassador calls for meeting of security council in one hour re: crimes against humanity. This should be interesting.

Libyan State TV denying there are any anti-government protesters in the country.

#Gaddafi to announce citizen-led devolution to local groups in regions with budgets. At least in #Libya #BigSociety gets funding.

Aljazeera says it has documented & authenticated airstrikes, their targets, and locations. More soon.

Families not allowed 2 retrieve bodies of killed family members unless they sign waiver saying their loved 1s died in surgery

Aljazeera says that runways in several eastern #Libya cities were targeted by airstrikes.

Mass aressts in #tripoli right now

At Tubruk military base..alll soldiers tell us they are with the people..Army switched sides in this area

Soldiers tell us they refuse to fire on own people..'our army like Egypt. Won't kill its people'

AJE Breaking News: Libyan naval asset off the coast of Malta, intentions unclear.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:16

Three Olives: Apr 10, 2005; I FUCKING HATE POOR PEOPLE BUT I LOVE BEING FUCKED IN THE ASS and having two dishwashers in my CONDO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How much longer can this go on before another country sends a plane in and takes out some key military and Gaddafi assets?

(Please not the US, oh god please not be the US)

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:22

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Well there's some reports of Austrian special forces being on the ground trying to get Austrian citizens out.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:23

Jut: May 16, 2005; by Ralp

Nice to see that the British Government is doing sweet gently caress all to help their citizens trapped there.
"go to the airport if you have the cash" doesn't really help.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:26

Mnoba: Jun 24, 2010

Three Olives posted:

How much longer can this go on before another country sends a plane in and takes out some key military and Gaddafi assets?

(Please not the US, oh god please not be the US)

Obama telling Gaddafi to step down publicly would be just as good. But above would depend on which EU countries have stealth tech. No way the US does that without a huge UN backing.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:30

DesperateDan: Dec 10, 2005; Where's my cow?

Is that my cow?

No it isn't, but it still tramples my bloody lavender.

Jut posted:

Nice to see that the British Government is doing sweet gently caress all to help their citizens trapped there.
"go to the airport if you have the cash" doesn't really help.

Well we could send in the SAS

oh wait they were already in country training up Gaddafi's special forces

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:42

Young Freud: Nov 26, 2006

Ducky posted:

This would be even funnier if the guy lead that van into a bollard.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:46

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Rumours that Gaddafi will boast about controlling Tripoli in his speech. At the same time soldiers in Tobruk say that the people are now in charge there, with the soldiers support.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:51

ShortStack: Jan 16, 2006; tinystax

Gaddafi needs to fix the drop ceiling in his secret bunker.

Live on AJE right now: http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:53

Monkeytime: Mar 20, 2010

Three Olives posted:

How much longer can this go on before another country sends a plane in and takes out some key military and Gaddafi assets?

(Please not the US, oh god please not be the US)

If anyone does, it'll be Italy-- they're heavily invested monetarily, historically and emotionally in Libya. The majority of Libyan assets are traded in the Italian exchange, which has suffered in the last few days. There have already been (unconfirmed and strongly denied) reports of Italian Air Force units flying over the Libyan mainland.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:54

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Gaddafi is speaking now.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:54

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

OH poo poo HE'S TALKING

And it's just as rambling and crazy and insane as feared. Blaming the protestors for making Libya look bad.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:55

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Didn't Mubarak give this exact same speech?

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:56

Gelf: Oct 1, 2005; Wake up and smell the psychosis!\

I know it's difficult for the poor translator to be translating on the fly like this, but even if it were perfectly translated I bet it would still be a rambling crock of insane shite...

Protestors are serving the DEVIL, and not Libya!
They have tarnished the image of their families...

This is going to calm things down for sure Col.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:56

Spiky Ooze: Oct 27, 2005; Bernie Sanders is a friend to my planet (pictured)

click the shit outta^

Wow, Gaddafi is creepy. This must have been what Hitler would have been like in his final moments.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:56

Ace Oliveira: Dec 27, 2009; "I wonder if there is beer on the sun."

drat, he sounds pissed. And I like how he's still wearing his sunglasses indoors.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:57

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Is he in a dilapidated basement or something?

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:57

MistaBob: Apr 9, 2003; I AM NINJA; Ramrod XTreme

Gelf posted:

I know it's difficult for the poor translator to be translating on the fly like this, but even if it were perfectly translated I bet it would still be a rambling crock of insane shite...

Oh yeah. I'm barely understanding what the gently caress he's going on about except for bits and pieces.

# ? Feb 22, 2011 16:58