Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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Mr Plow: Dec 31, 2004

Great White Hope posted:

There's no way that's not a typo.

Right?

It's not a typo.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 17:36

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# ? May 13, 2024 14:17

rare Magic card l00k: Jan 3, 2011

Well....gently caress.

Come on Libyans, hang in there.

Edit: For reference (unless I screwed up my rushed math which might have happened), that's about .155% of Libya's population, or more than 1 in every 1,000 people. Given how 1,000 was an estimate not too long ago, the number could easily hit 1 in 100 if this keeps up.

rare Magic card l00k fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Feb 23, 2011

# ? Feb 23, 2011 17:38

Finlander: Feb 21, 2011

DarkCrawler posted:

Has to be a typo, that would be insane.

Well, by now, it's already been established that things over there are insane. And since there's been so many reports of there being hundreds upon hundreds of dead people found, 10 000 dead doesn't seem too far-fetched. Hopefully not, though, especially since Libya's not really a huge country, meaning that 10 000 dead is pretty much genocide.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 17:39

Jut: May 16, 2005; by Ralp

henpod posted:

Holy gently caress, is this a typo or have 10,000 people been killed? . If so, this is even more abhorrent than before, that's an insane amount.

It's not uncommon for death tolls to be overestimated during a revolution, look at the estimated people killed in the Romanian revolution, compared to the actual figures. The media were reporting deaths in the tens of thousands, but the actual figure was less than 200. More people ended up dying in the minerads than NC's overthrow.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 17:39

HighClassSwankyTime: Jan 16, 2004

I literally cannot get enough of Gadaffi's speech. In its plain insanity, its awesome.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 17:40

Settepotet: Jul 10, 2009

I don't know what to believe anymore.

10.000 dead is an insane amount. But, when we think about it, it is truly possible its way higher than the previously reported 1.000. That lunatic dictator used bombers and gunship against crowded civilians. The amount of killed must have been mindnumbing. And, as the tweet above mentions: 450 bodies discovered in a school. Probably result of the 'clean up' in Benghazi.

Either way: a mass murder of civilians.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 17:44

Hob_Gadling: Jul 6, 2007; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Grimey Drawer

A lot of that number are due to hospitals running out of medication or electricity, elderly people and so on. Ie. the weakest people who die the easiest if there's a problem in the care-taking chain.

It's safe to estimate somewhere between 3 to 6 times as many people are in need of some sort of treatment or medication (burns, lacerations etc.) as have actually been killed this far.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 17:45

Burt Sexual: Jan 26, 2006; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Switchblade Switcharoo

Mr Plow posted:

It's not a typo.

While it could be incorrect estimate, just imagine how many people would be mowed down in a protest march/square by a jet strafing the streets. Its like fish in a barrel. Christ this is disgusting.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 17:45

Slantedfloors: Apr 29, 2008; Wait, What?

I can definately see the death toll in the high thousands if the reports of random bombings, strafings, shellings, and the use of AA-weapons on crowds are true.

Fucker must hang.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 17:45

QuentinCompson: Mar 11, 2009

Hob_Gadling posted:

I heard someone claim the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt agrees to a democratic government, provided the new legislation is not at odds with sharia.

Is this true? I can't find first-hand sources for or against.

http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=27947

There are hundreds of articles in this line on their website going back to its launching, either it's been a decades-long PR campaign or they might actually be telling the truth.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 17:45

Jut: May 16, 2005; by Ralp

Settepotet posted:

I don't know what to believe anymore.

10.000 dead is an insane amount. But, when we think about it, it is truly possible its way higher than the previously reported 1.000. That lunatic dictator used bombers and gunship against crowded civilians. The amount of killed must have been mindnumbing. And, as the tweet above mentions: 450 bodies discovered in a school. Probably result of the 'clean up' in Benghazi.

Either way: a mass murder of civilians.

Don't forget that there can be a lot of hyperbole and exaggeration over things like this. I'm not denying that he's sent planes to bomb people, or that mercs have been shooting, but I'm not convinced that the image painted by the protesters is entirely accurate. Any figures would just be guesswork at this point in time, and only untill the smoke has cleared could we get an accurate count.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 17:50

Jack Napier: Aug 5, 2010; by Ozma

Go into Libya
Dig for oil
Take it out of the country
Complain when your food is taken away

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-12550802

quote:

Oil worker trapped in Libya 'desperate for rescue'

A Scottish oil worker stranded with 300 people in a Libyan desert camp has told how the group has just one day's supply of food and water left.

James Coyle, from Erskine, Renfrewshire, said the workers were "desperate" to be rescued.

They have been trapped for a number of days, since protests in the country turned to violence. About 300 people have been killed in the uprising.

"We are living every day in fear of our lives," Mr Coyle told the BBC.

Armed looters have already ransacked a nearby camp, forcing German workers to join them. Mr Coyle said this had tripled the number the camp usually provides for.

In a radio interview he said the oil workers, who are about two-and-a-half hours from Benghazi, could not get to the airport and the UK government was ignoring their pleas to be rescued.

"We have been left without any protection whatsoever," he said. "The looters are local people armed with AK47s.

"We are living a nightmare."

Mr Coyle said locals had raided the camp next door and taken vehicles, all the food and even fridge freezers.

'Real distress'
As a result the oil workers there had been forced to move into his camp, bringing the numbers up from 100 to 300. Mr Coyle said he estimated that about 90 people in the camp were British.

"We have had to take in the Germans and other nationalities from next door as their camp has been wrecked," he said.

"We have very little food and water, maybe enough to last one day."

Mr Coyle added that conditions in the camp were deteriorating.

"It's getting very difficult here," he said. "We need a Hercules in now to get us out."

A Foreign Office spokesman said: "The safety of British Nationals in Libya is of paramount concern. We are doing all we can to help them, including those in camps.

"We are continuing to work up contingency plans to deal with what is a very difficult, testing and fluid situation.

"We recognise the genuine and real distress of those who are in camps in the desert, not least since it is difficult to travel to Tripoli.

"Our priority is their safety so we are advising them to stay put if they are safe where they are at the current time."

The spokesman added that the Foreign Office was pressing the Libyan authorities to re-open the military airport to help companies evacuate staff.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 17:51

thiswayliesmadness: Dec 3, 2009; I hope to see you next time, and take care all

Jut posted:

Don't forget that there can be a lot of hyperbole and exaggeration over things like this. I'm not denying that he's sent planes to bomb people, or that mercs have been shooting, but I'm not convinced that the image painted by the protesters is entirely accurate. Any figures would just be guesswork at this point in time, and only untill the smoke has cleared could we get an accurate count.

I'm betting an accurate count won't happen for awhile. Just think of the number of bodies the Mad Gad's stolen and either hidden in mass graves, coolers, etc.

Even once he's gone Libya's probably going to still be in chaos for some regions till they clear out the insane number of mercs that seem to keep being imported.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 17:54

Krypt-OOO-Nite!!: Oct 25, 2010

Reveilled posted:

It would be interesting, certainly, if it turned out the Justice Minister had been involved in some conspiracy to effect his release, but personally I'm not conviced the Scottish Government was in on any deception.

Really? Personally that was the last nail in the coffin for me believing that the Scottish parliament weren't just a bunch of self intrested disgusting cunts.
It was pretty much the most transparent bit of under the table dealing I've ever seen.

I hope that all the details of this come out after this is all over, but then I was hoping all the details of our(U.K/U.S.A) shadey dealings in Egypt would start coming out after their revolution.
I guess it's a little early but hopefully they'll start releasing stuff at some point.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 17:55

Jut: May 16, 2005; by Ralp

Some Twat posted:

"Our priority is their safety so we are advising them to stay put if they are safe where they are at the current time."

If the British government's priority was their safety, then they would be going there to airlift them out with a "attack us while we are rescuing our dudes and we WILL gently caress your poo poo up" attitude, not telling them to stay put. gently caress our government. Other's have gotten their people out, why has the British government still got their finger up their rear end?

# ? Feb 23, 2011 17:57

twit666: Nov 16, 2006; Soiled Meat

MJ_Turbo posted:

anyone got a link to yesterdays crazy speech by Gaddafi in what looked like an abandoned warehouse? he flinches as one of his soldiers goes up to kiss him, made me laugh

Go back to page 40 or so and you'll find the links. He was speaking from the house that Reagan blew up in 1986. He never repaired it.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 18:12

DesperateDan: Dec 10, 2005; Where's my cow?

Is that my cow?

No it isn't, but it still tramples my bloody lavender.

Jut posted:

If the British government's priority was their safety, then they would be going there to airlift them out with a "attack us while we are rescuing our dudes and we WILL gently caress your poo poo up" attitude, not telling them to stay put. gently caress our government. Other's have gotten their people out, why has the British government still got their finger up their rear end?

AFAIK the SAS troops that were training gaddafis special forces may well still be in country and the UK government does not want them put against a wall and shot. Hard to get anything solid on it as the government refuses to comment on it. The UK jumped quite heavily into bed with Libya after 9/11 (and still has not closed all the weapons deals with them).

Always remember that whatever the UK government is saying, Cameron just flew out to the middle east with reps from 8 different UK defence firms, to sell yet more arms to other dictators.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 18:16

Averrences: May 3, 2008

Jut posted:

If the British government's priority was their safety, then they would be going there to airlift them out with a "attack us while we are rescuing our dudes and we WILL gently caress your poo poo up" attitude, not telling them to stay put. gently caress our government. Other's have gotten their people out, why has the British government still got their finger up their rear end?

Because they're completely incompetent when dealing with developing situations - It's funny really, if Labour were still in power, and they were showing this level of uselessness, then the tabloids would be having a loving field day with "LIEBOUR CRONIES DO NOTHING TO SAVE OUR BRAVE BOYS" :britain:

.

It's sad really, because Cameron could of used this as an example to show he can react decisively and quickly to developing foreign entanglements, but he's fallen into the trap of most Prime Ministers after an extended time in the Shadow cabinet - having no loving clue about foreign events.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 18:16

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Evening summary from the Guardian:

quote:

� Benghazi appears to have fallen irretrievably beyond the control of Muammar Gaddafi, reports the Guardian's Martin Chulov, the first foreign journalist to reach the city. Troops who have defected from the Gaddafi regime are barricading a police station in the city to prevent it being seized back by Gaddafi's forces in the city, where doctors said at least 230 people have been killed. One air force officer told the Guardian he personally witnessed up to 4,000 mercenaries arrive on Libyan transport planes, each of them carrying 300 armed men.

� The cities of Zliten and Misrata, close to Tripoli, are reportedly under the control of anti-Gaddafi protesters. If the reports are correct they would be the first cities in the west of the country to fall to the demonstrators, whose support base is mainly in the east. The Guardian's Ian Black said the fall of Misrata suggests the west of Libya is now beginning to be seriously affected.

� The UK foreign secretary, William Hague, has said the UK will provide "as many planes as are necessary" to evacuate British nationals from Libya. He said that in addition to those Britons in Tripoli, Benghazi and other cities, there are some 170 Britons working in remote, isolated camps in the desert in Libya who are in a "perilous and frightening situation". One charter flight is en route to Tripoli to collect British nationals, while another will arrive later today. A third flight may be scheduled for Thursday morning.

� Mercenaries and militias are reported to be roaming Tripoli, with much of the capital deserted. Overnight a "heavy force of supporters and militiamen" were on the streets, brought out by Gaddafi's speech, Associated Press reported. Tripoli airport is "very, very chaotic", an English teacher who flew out last night told the Guardian. "There was a real crush � it was a very frightening experience," Peter Thomas said. "Our tickets had been bought in Turkey so we didn't have them with us. We just had to persuade the guards at various checkpoints that we should be allowed through."

# ? Feb 23, 2011 18:21

RunningOnEmpty: Nov 1, 2005; Because I work hard for the money...bitch.

Averrences posted:

Because they're completely incompetent when dealing with developing situations - It's funny really, if Labour were still in power, and they were showing this level of uselessness, then the tabloids would be having a loving field day with "LIEBOUR CRONIES DO NOTHING TO SAVE OUR BRAVE BOYS" .

It's sad really, because Cameron could of used this as an example to show he can react decisively and quickly to developing foreign entanglements, but he's fallen into the trap of most Prime Ministers after an extended time in the Shadow cabinet - having no loving clue about foreign events.

This worries me. It seems to have taken much time and effort for them to charter two aircraft to pick up our stranded citizens. I'm beginning to wonder just how cash-strapped the UK really is. For example, just yesterday our prime minister was trying to convince Egypt to buy from our major armaments manufacturers, going as far as to travel with company representatives. It just seems, well, cheap and below our standing. Is this where the Big Society jobs are going to come from, selling guns to counties that have just through a major upheaval?

# ? Feb 23, 2011 18:26

Space Monster: Mar 13, 2009

RunningOnEmpty posted:

This worries me. It seems to have taken much time and effort for them to charter two aircraft to pick up our stranded citizens. I'm beginning to wonder just how cash-strapped the UK really is. For example, just yesterday our prime minister was trying to convince Egypt to buy from our major armaments manufacturers, going as far as to travel with company representatives. It just seems, well, cheap and below our standing. Is this where the Big Society jobs are going to come from, selling guns to counties that have just through a major upheaval?

That seems like a terrible idea anyway. "This country has just gone through a revolution and isn't exactly stable yet...LETS SELL THEM WEAPONS!"

# ? Feb 23, 2011 18:28

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

Sounds like it is more of a payback for campaign donations or whatever.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 18:29

richardm: Jul 15, 2004

Jut posted:

If the British government's priority was their safety, then they would be going there to airlift them out with a "attack us while we are rescuing our dudes and we WILL gently caress your poo poo up" attitude, not telling them to stay put. gently caress our government. Other's have gotten their people out, why has the British government still got their finger up their rear end?

Well... others are saying that they've got their people out; however:

Russia posted:

We've got all our people out!

The BBC posted:

#1717: Russian worker Aleksandr Vorkachev, in Ra's Lanuf, tells Ekho Moskvy radio: "A camp with Russian citizens has been surrounded by Arab militant extremists."

Hmm.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 18:36

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

From Twitter

Doctor in Benghazi:12 more people died from wounds inflicted earlier this week. Volunteers signing up to fight Gadhafi in Tripoli.

Amazing: I hear by phone that Tajura, #Libya , less than 10 miles from Tripoli, has fallen. Rebel flag flying over it.

Eye-witness report on Libya Live Radio reports: more than 6 army tanks driving into Tajoura just outside of Tripoli

people are being burned and murdered by seashore so bodies are taken by the waters.

Haaretz: Tribal leaders intervened with #Libya army and ordered them to step down

Al Jazeera now live from Derna, Benghazi and Tubroq... all Gaddafi-free

Border: Man fleeing #Libya reprts 20+ checkpts where Libyan soldiers take cellphones away & destroy sim cards

Another massive protest for #Libya Revolution thundering down Hassan Sabri street right now.

"Three workers at Libya's embassy in Sweden resign in protest of government crackdown"

#Libya popular committes protecting secret military base

A #UNHCR flight carrying tents & relief items for up to 10000 people fleeing violence in #libya expected to arrive in #Tunisia this wknd.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 18:56

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

http://alive.in/libya/2011/02/22/caller-personally-confirmed-1500-young-men-buried-alive-in-an-underground-room-in-benghazi-speak2tweet/

Underground prison...jesus christ. Would not surprise me at all if this were true.

quote:

Jazeera, I want to deliver this information, I confirmed it personally, on my responsibility. I am a Libyan citizen. Today in Benghazi they discovered a room underground, a room that is completely locked-in. Completely locked. Holding 1500 young men from Benghazi. From the 15th of February the first day of demonstrations to today when they got them out, the 22nd, they had been without food or water. They heard the voices from the barracks, noise, people. After they went to check, they got them out, God be praised, alive. 1500 young men, buried alive, buried alive. Muammar must be obliterated. We will not surrender. Our dead are in heaven, he is in hell. God bear witness that I have delivered this message, if there are any Muslims. God willing.

Translated by: @tasnimq

# ? Feb 23, 2011 18:57

A Good Dog: Jan 19, 2007; bee

Am I really supposed to feel sorry for the cracker extra-nationals that haven't been able to flee Libya with their pockets full of stolen money?

# ? Feb 23, 2011 19:01

Narmi: Feb 26, 2008

Interesting that they've starting calling protesters rebels now. I guess it's impossible to pretend it isn't a civil war at this point, especially if it's true that people are signing up to fight Gadhafi.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 19:01

Namarrgon: Dec 23, 2008; Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!

I'd be really surprised if the death toll is lower than 10k. Have you guys been watching the same revolution?

# ? Feb 23, 2011 19:08

farraday: Jan 10, 2007; Lower those eyebrows, young man. And the other one.

Namarrgon posted:

I'd be really surprised if the death toll is lower than 10k. Have you guys been watching the same revolution?

Participant and bystander estimation of numbers are notoriously unreliable. Humans also survive some crazy poo poo. 10k casualties at this moment? Yes, absolutely. 10k deaths? Much harder to accept without backing.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 19:11

The Casualty: Sep 29, 2006; Security Clearance: Pop Secret

Whiny baby

Xandu posted:

http://alive.in/libya/2011/02/22/caller-personally-confirmed-1500-young-men-buried-alive-in-an-underground-room-in-benghazi-speak2tweet/

Underground prison...jesus christ. Would not surprise me at all if this were true.

Jesus...

is such a sick gently caress.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 19:20

Cacatua: Jan 17, 2006

http://www.undispatch.com/both-israel-and-palestine-co-sponsor-resolution-condemning-libya-violence

Quote from the above:

Leave it to Muammar Qaddafi to bring together the Israelis and Palestinians at the United Nations.

I have just obtained the copy of a draft resolution from the Human Rights Council that strongly condemns the violence in Libya. The resolution is as strongly worded as they come. But what is more significant than the substance of the resolution is the broad support that it has attracted by a diverse set of members.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 19:31

Earwicker: Jan 6, 2003

A Good Dog posted:

Am I really supposed to feel sorry for the cracker extra-nationals that haven't been able to flee Libya with their pockets full of stolen money?

Who exactly are you referring to?

# ? Feb 23, 2011 19:35

Ghetto Prince: Sep 11, 2010; got to be mellow, y'all

God I hope some one gets it together and manages to liberate Tripoli soon, it sounds like a nightmare straight out of the last century in there.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 19:35

Settepotet: Jul 10, 2009

Xandu posted:

http://alive.in/libya/2011/02/22/caller-personally-confirmed-1500-young-men-buried-alive-in-an-underground-room-in-benghazi-speak2tweet/

Underground prison...jesus christ. Would not surprise me at all if this were true.

Well. This is just plain crazy. Holy gently caress...

# ? Feb 23, 2011 19:36

Lascivious Sloth: Apr 26, 2008; by sebmojo

A Good Dog posted:

Am I really supposed to feel sorry for the cracker extra-nationals that haven't been able to flee Libya with their pockets full of stolen money?

Cracker extra-nationals? You're a loving idiot.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 19:46

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Obama about to give a worthless speech in about 20 minutes.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 19:50

Apology: Nov 12, 2005; by Y Kant Ozma Post

Brown Moses posted:

Various tweets, excluding all those assholes who are whining about the rising oil prices. "Wah wah wah, gas is so expensive, wah wah wah":

You can make a list on Twitter and exclude those people from the list. Only add people to your list who are on the ground in the affected areas. You'll still be following the gas price weepers, but you won't see their posts when you look at your list.You can remove people from your list if they turn out to be trolls or bad posters.

At the top of your Twitter home page, there's the headings of "Timeline" "@mentions" "retweets" "searches" and "lists". Drop down "lists" and choose "create a list". Then go through all the helpful people, follow them, and add them to your list. Bingo, no more gas-price weepers. You can even search out news sources using the search box at the very top of the page. Very useful, the list. You only get the posts that you want to see without offending family and friends by un-following them.

# ? Feb 23, 2011 19:50

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Brown Moses posted:

Obama about to give a worthless speech in about 20 minutes.

Something like "Good job, everyone! Keep doing that thing!" like before?

# ? Feb 23, 2011 19:59

Slantedfloors: Apr 29, 2008; Wait, What?

Samurai Sanders posted:

Something like "Good job, everyone! Keep doing that thing!" like before?

"We fully support the status quo, until such time as we cannot do so expediently. At that point we don't support it, and never have"

# ? Feb 23, 2011 20:00

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# ? May 13, 2024 14:17

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Slantedfloors posted:

"We fully support the status quo, until such time as we cannot do so expediently. At that point we don't support it, and never have"

I thought we were talking about what he would actually say...

# ? Feb 23, 2011 20:04

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