Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
A Nice Boy
Feb 13, 2007

First in, last out.
Goddamn, what a loving idiot. I love how his indictment of the Malazan books is based on ONE user comment from somewhere (he neglects to mention where).

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Doktor Avalanche
Dec 30, 2008

John Charity Spring posted:

I've not read it but one of my friends - whose opinion on books I trust completely, and hasn't steered me wrong yet - read it due to all the praise it was getting and completely loathed it. Said it was one of the worst-written books he'd read, bankrupt of any virtues.

I liked Heroes die, but I think the other 2 books (The blade of Tyshalle & Caine Black Knife) were better.

It's bloody, fun and interesting enough to keep me waiting for the next book.

bigmcgaffney
Apr 19, 2009
It seems this dude has a huge hard-on for what he calls True Myth.

quote:

my guess is that you read fantasy not for the prose poetry or the air of myth, but for the soap opera element so common in virtually all writing in all genres today. You want lots of characters all filled to the brim with Oprah/Dr. Phil emotional drama, along with lots of modern dis-concordant jokes and dialogue, and enough twists and turns in the plot to keep you guessing as what's going to happen next on "Days of Our Lives."

So... plot, characters, and conflict are bad? Dude just wants to read ancient purple 'prose poetry'. Also, themes of the futility of civilization in the face of barbarism sounds pretty negative to me.

RobattoJesus
Aug 13, 2002

anathenema posted:

The comments section is a rabbit hole of conservative extremist wank resembling an overlong rant from a crotchety old man, going from "kids these days" to "women tryin' to take away my freedom."

I just started reading The Blade Itself yesterday, and I just got to the part 80-odd pages in where Arch Lector Sult and Glotka, who are currently the most evil morally bankrupt bastards in the book are discussing their preferential replacement for the dead member of The Closed Council. They remark about their intended choice being a "good conservative", which in that context seemed to mean willing to be an evil lawless fascist with a hatred of common people..

The usage of the word Conservative makes sense in the context of the book's universe, but I remember thinking when I read it that a large number of modern-day Conservatives probably took it at as a direct attack on them and decided to hate the book from that moment onwards simply for likening them to an ugly toothless cripple rather than the mental image they have of themselves as a dashingly handsome bare-chested conservative hero.

John Charity Spring
Nov 4, 2009

SCREEEEE
Joe has posted a lengthy rejoinder on his blog. A choice extract:

quote:

If you feel your mind and culture might collapse under the weight of a surprising ending involving an unpleasant wizard, a rubbish king and a couple of swear words, it seems to me you really need to dig them some deeper foundations.

A Nice Boy
Feb 13, 2007

First in, last out.
Just read that and commented...Great rebuttal.

onefish
Jan 15, 2004

Bizob posted:

The simple fact that "Heros Die" is cited along with the First Law and Malazan in that article is almost enough to get me to overcome the shame that would come with buying something with that awful cover. Can anyone tell me if its any good?

The currently sold version has a slightly better cover. Still a bad painting, but better design: http://www.amazon.com/Heroes-Die-Matthew-Woodring-Stover/dp/0345421450

I quite liked Heroes Die, and also like Mieville, Abercrombie, GRRM, Lynch, Rothfuss (goonhate notwithstanding), etc. It's different than those books -- much more obviously the product of a particular personality, for one.

It's a bit over the top: Stover's personal writing motto is "I Swear by the Power of All Dark Gods that I Will Write Every loving Word Balls-Out for Glory." But it's not *bad* writing - as far as writing every loving word etc etc goes, I think it's about as good as it gets.

Great fight scenes (Stover's a pretty good martial artist), actual surprises, actual themes (among them, Stover says "It's a piece of violent entertainment that's a meditation on violent entertainment"), and so on. Certainly not as inventive as Mieville, and earlier in the "gritty" "revolution" than Abercrombie (and therefore, perhaps, a bit less careful about the way he does "grit"), but this is basically stuff you won't find anywhere else. And, I mean, I don't know if Abercrombie's read him, but doesn't "Heroes Die" sound like the title Abercrombie's book might have had if Stover hadn't gotten there first?

If you like Scott Lynch, Lynch has acknowledged a very deep debt to Stover. Oh, and John Scalzi loves his books, too: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2008/10/14/tgbstover/.

In any event, I really wish Stover sold better, because I would like to read more Overworld books. Blade of Tyshalle was a bit baggy for me (though it had some great parts), but Caine Black Knife was a pure shot of angry energy with some depth to it.

Doublehex
Jan 29, 2009

Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
I made "Best Served Cold" as my return to Fantasy after a year of reading other genres.

Feels good to read a totally awesome, unapologetic Fantasy book again that actually has some awesome prose and characters that are interesting. :D

I probably should have waited until The Wise Man's Fear, because now I have a suspecting feeling that as soon as I am done I will order The Heroes...and then I will have two books to read at the same time and I always get distracted and forget what the heck is going on when I do that. :ohdear:

Bizob
Dec 18, 2004

Tiger out of nowhere!
How does everyone feel about Abercrombie's fellow nihilist/corruptor of fantasy Richard K. Morgan? I ask because it looks like Morgan is almost done with the sequel to the Steel Remains and just posted a new sample chapter on his blog. It is... gross.

hemale in pain
Jun 5, 2010




Bizob posted:

How does everyone feel about Abercrombie's fellow nihilist/corruptor of fantasy Richard K. Morgan? I ask because it looks like Morgan is almost done with the sequel to the Steel Remains and just posted a new sample chapter on his blog. It is... gross.

Morgan's always had a bit of an odd focus on torture and practically all his books have a couple of nasty scenes. I remember the torture machine in the Kovac's series where it would literally strip your flesh/nerves down bit by bit while keeping you alive, and it's hard to forget hot poker penetration.

KillRoy
Dec 28, 2004
I many not go down in history but I'll go down on you sister.
Where were all the Shanka? I kept expecting them to show up at some point.

Decius
Oct 14, 2005

Ramrod XTreme

KillRoy posted:

Where were all the Shanka? I kept expecting them to show up at some point.

Far to the north, while the battle was very much in the south of the Northlands. Not much reason for them to show up just yet, although I'm sure we will see them again in a later book.

Subvisual Haze
Nov 22, 2003

The building was on fire and it wasn't my fault.
I was disappointed we saw so little of the Dogman in this one. It was odd for such a major protagonist from the past to just wander in briefly at the end.

Yadoppsi
May 10, 2009

Grand Prize Winner posted:

And I feel sorry for Craw. I hoped he'd quit for realsies

I thought his ending was paired perfectly with Beck's for a great contrast. The only way to get out of the violent life is to stop before you start.

KillRoy
Dec 28, 2004
I many not go down in history but I'll go down on you sister.

keiran_helcyan posted:

I was disappointed we saw so little of the Dogman in this one. It was odd for such a major protagonist from the past to just wander in briefly at the end.

That seems to be the MO for these standalone books though. Cosca, Shivers and Eider were all minor players in the original trilogy. Not to mention cameos by Jezal, Gorst, and mentions of the Cripple.

I wonder who the next book will involve? Hopefully Shekt. He's great. I always thought TerezJezal's queen, daughter or Duke Orso would be a great POV character. She'd have a great insight on Adua as well as Talins, and every chapter might bring in Glokta :neckbeard:

Clinton1011
Jul 11, 2007

KillRoy posted:

might bring in Glokta

Anything that will bring more Glokta, he is one of my favorite characters in any book now and I just want to see more from his PoV.

I just finished The Heroes and my only complaint is now I have nothing to read. I feel Abercrombie has ruined fantasy for me since nothing else seems as good.

I need more hosed up flawed characters.

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata
Whirrun's loving cheese-trap. :laffo: This guy is alright.

Yadoppsi
May 10, 2009
I don't know why it was Whirrun's destiny that did it for me, but his death really rammed home how pointless and senseless it all is more than any other characters' for me.

Also where are you getting the idea that the Father-of-Swords is one of the Maker's blades?

Clinton1011
Jul 11, 2007

Yadoppsi posted:

I don't know why it was Whirrun's destiny that did it for me, but his death really rammed home how pointless and senseless it all is more than any other characters' for me.

Also where are you getting the idea that the Father-of-Swords is one of the Maker's blades?

They mention a mark on the blade just above the hilt just like Logen's sword had.

Plucky Brit
Nov 7, 2009

Swing low, sweet chariot

Yadoppsi posted:

Also where are you getting the idea that the Father-of-Swords is one of the Maker's blades?

A very big, impossibly sharp sword made of dull grey metal with a silver letter stamped at the hilt.

Am I talking about Logen's blade or Whirrun's? The description fits both.

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata
Finree is pretty rad too. There's something about a power hungry, sociopathic officer's wife that just works.

silly
Jul 15, 2004

"I saw it get by the mound, and I saw Superman at second base."
I'm not far in but I'm already seeing how Abercrombie copy/pasted Gettysburg into his world for The Heroes. Not necessarily a bad thing but boy is it transparent.

John Charity Spring
Nov 4, 2009

SCREEEEE
Not really? The battle is pretty much a composite of Hastings, Waterloo, Arnhem, and any number of other famous battles. With a bunch of other stuff added in too.

Smoky Bandana
Oct 1, 2009

You can trip on my synthesizer.
I got a big Hastings feel myself, what with an elevated shieldwall holding against a technologically superior foe. I suppose it comes down to where you were brought up, these kinds of battles have been fought throughout all history.

Absolutely cracking read by the way, Abercrombie's one of the few authors I get the hardbacks for, just don't want to wait on anything that good.

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata

Smoky Bandana posted:

Absolutely cracking read by the way, Abercrombie's one of the few authors I get the hardbacks for, just don't want to wait on anything that good.

I read that as "Abercrombie's one of the few authors I get the hardons for" and I didn't really think to confirm what I read. I, too, get the hardons for Abercrombie's work.


vvv I don't remember that either, but I'm only about 47% through the book.

Bummey fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Feb 24, 2011

Yadoppsi
May 10, 2009

Clinton1011 posted:

They mention a mark on the blade just above the hilt just like Logen's sword had.

I must have missed that then. I don't remember reading about any mark.

Zasze
Apr 29, 2009
its when gorst is sizing up wirrun and describes the father of swords kinda snuck in there.

Destro
Dec 29, 2003

time to wake up

Yadoppsi posted:

I must have missed that then. I don't remember reading about any mark.

I remember reading it, but for some reason I had forgotten all about Kanedias, so it didn't make any sense to me at the time either.

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata
Black Dow reminds me a lot of Al Swearengen in The Heroes. I'm just waiting for him to call someone a cocksucker.

Kaddish
Feb 7, 2002
Pretty sure I do remember him calling someone a cocksucker at some point.

silly
Jul 15, 2004

"I saw it get by the mound, and I saw Superman at second base."
I finished The Heroes the other night. Very good on the whole, would put it over Best Served Cold and near the trilogy. There were a few loose plot threads here and there but those may have been intentional.

One thing that did bug me (fairly big ending spoiler) The whole bit with Calder and ha! ha! Bayaz runs everything (AGAIN) bit was a bit lame. Bayaz' influence is getting a bit ridiculous if half the warriors on the Northern side answer to him. It also makes the point of the war a lot less clear. Also it doesn't really address Ishri and the whole larger conflict

But it didn't ruin the book really. Bremer van Gorst is still a badass motherfucker.

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

Do you know anything about...
witches?



Buglord

silly posted:

One thing that did bug me (fairly big ending spoiler) The whole bit with Calder and ha! ha! Bayaz runs everything (AGAIN) bit was a bit lame. Bayaz' influence is getting a bit ridiculous if half the warriors on the Northern side answer to him. It also makes the point of the war a lot less clear. Also it doesn't really address Ishri and the whole larger conflict

As others have speculated, everything in these books seems to be building up to a major war between Bayaz and Kanedias. Maybe now that Bayaz has control over Calder, the Union and the North will be forced to become allies against the South in the next book or in the upcoming trilogy.

silly
Jul 15, 2004

"I saw it get by the mound, and I saw Superman at second base."

Daveski posted:

As others have speculated, everything in these books seems to be building up to a major war between Bayaz and Kanedias. Maybe now that Bayaz has control over Calder, the Union and the North will be forced to become allies against the South in the next book or in the upcoming trilogy.

I get that everything is building toward a climactic showdown. But hell Bayaz could have just done this same trick on Black Dow. Or hell had Bethod killed and replaced. Bringing in the whole deus ex machina again kind of weakens the overall plot structure if you ask me.

Hughmoris
Apr 21, 2007
Let's go to the abyss!
Joe (we are on first name basis) has a new post up on his blog, concerning material for his next novel. I cannot wait.

http://www.joeabercrombie.com/news/

KillRoy
Dec 28, 2004
I many not go down in history but I'll go down on you sister.

silly posted:

I get that everything is building toward a climactic showdown. But hell Bayaz could have just done this same trick on Black Dow. Or hell had Bethod killed and replaced. Bringing in the whole deus ex machina again kind of weakens the overall plot structure if you ask me.

Calder is a better puppet than Black Dow. The north is now set up like the Union was at the end of the 3rd book. Scale is the figurehead king that people will follow, Calder is the actual power behind him, and Bayaz controls Calder. Just how Bayaz controls Sand, while Sand controls Jezal.

J Bjelke-Postersen
Sep 16, 2007

I have a 6 point plan to stop the boats.....or turn them around or something....No wait what were those points again....Are there really 6?

Hughmoris posted:

Joe (we are on first name basis) has a new post up on his blog, concerning material for his next novel. I cannot wait.

http://www.joeabercrombie.com/news/

The New Adventures of Nicomo Cogburn.

no pantsu
Aug 11, 2003
Audio book for The Heroes is out, read by Michael Page (the guy who read Best Served Cold). audio sample below cover art
http://www.audible.com/pd/ref=sr_1_5?asin=B004N1OHD8&qid=1299131327&sr=1-5

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata

no pantsu posted:

Audio book for The Heroes is out, read by Michael Page (the guy who read Best Served Cold). audio sample below cover art
http://www.audible.com/pd/ref=sr_1_5?asin=B004N1OHD8&qid=1299131327&sr=1-5

Gross, it almost sounds like a synthesized voice. That voice from those stupid videos that are all over the place now.

edit: This poo poo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGgVY6Ref4I

Audio books are for retarded people.

Bummey fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Mar 3, 2011

John Charity Spring
Nov 4, 2009

SCREEEEE

Bummey posted:

Gross, it almost sounds like a synthesized voice. That voice from those stupid videos that are all over the place now.

Hahaha, that's spot on.

Really interested in finding out what Abercrombie is going to do with a Western theme in this fantasy universe. It doesn't seem to be the best fit, at first sight.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Groke
Jul 27, 2007
New Adventures In Mom Strength

John Charity Spring posted:

Really interested in finding out what Abercrombie is going to do with a Western theme in this fantasy universe. It doesn't seem to be the best fit, at first sight.

I give not a gently caress; I trust it will be awesome.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply