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Times posted:Remember how historically, people lost their taste in representational art of human figures for a while, after the photos of the twisted bodies in the holocaust left a really terrifying impression on everyone. Not a chance. For one, Arabs have been almost completely dehumanized by western (especially American) media, so that the average viewer won't really register this as violence. Also, this won't receive much media attention (because who cares about Arabs, right?). It's highly doubtful that this will have much if any cultural effect.
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Mar 4, 2011 14:44
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More news from Tripoli:quote:The BBC's Wyre Davies says there have been incredibly violent scenes on the outskirts of Tripoli. "This is significant because, of course, Col Gaddafi insists that everybody, especially in the country near Tripoli, loves him and that there are no protests," he says. "What we saw after Friday prayers was a vocal and vociferous protest by anti-Gaddafi protesters. Then, just all of a sudden, these pro-government militia and police came in vehicles screeching into the centre of the suburbs firing dozens of tear gas canisters and baton rounds. The scene was chaotic as people ran away but then they came back, shouting anti-Gaddafi slogans." quote:Teargas and live ammunition has been fired in Tripoli, according to reports. Forces loyal to Gaddafi fired the gas at a demonstration calling for the Libyan leader to step down, scattering the protesters, who quickly regrouped. Reuters reports that live ammunition was then fired, scattering the 1,500 people, although it is unclear if shots were fired at protesters or into the air. And a bit about Ras Lanuf: quote:A Reuters correspondent, 20km (12.4 miles) from the Libyan port town of Ras Lanuf, reports hearing "thuds of artillery and explosions".
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Mar 4, 2011 14:51
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Gaddafi is trying to sneak money to the UK:quote:A spokesperson from HM Treasury, the United Kingdom government department responsible for developing and executing the British government's public finance policy and economic policy, said:
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Mar 4, 2011 14:53
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There's rumours that a BBC or CNN journalist has been injured in Zawiyah by pro-Gaddafi forces. Zawiyah also seemed to have resisted efforts by pro-Gaddafi forces to overrun it, but the day isn't over yet.
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Mar 4, 2011 15:07
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More news from Egypt:quote:A referendum on amendments to Egypt's constitution will take place on March 19, the Egyptian government said on its Facebook page, quoting the ruling supreme council for the armed forces, Reuters reports. A new constitution was one of the demands of the protesters who brought down Mubarak. The statement said:
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Mar 4, 2011 15:29
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The Battle of Ras Lanuf continuesquote:Reuters correspondent Mohammed Abbas is within sight of the battlefield in Ras Lanuf. He said:
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Mar 4, 2011 16:00
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ibroxmassive posted:You broke international law and we'll prove it by breaking more international laws? Do you really think Gaddafi gives a flying gently caress about breaking international law?
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Mar 4, 2011 16:01
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News from Zawiyah:quote:Al-Jazeera is now reporting that the rebel leader in the western Libyan city of Zawiya, Hassan Warbok, has been killed. A witness also told the channel that at 50 people had died in fighting on Friday. A resident told the Reuters earlier that pro-Gaddafi forces had been deployed around the town, with 2,000 fighters to the south and 80 armoured vehicles to the east. More info on Ras Lanuf: quote:There have also been reports of new clashes to the east in Ras Lanouf. The AFP news agency says at least four people have died in violence near the town's oil compound. quote:Clearly a volatile situation in Ras Lanouf: Reuters is now reporting that rebels have taken the airport from government forces. Also some other news: quote:An oil facility at Zueitina, south of the Libyan rebel-held city of Benghazi, has been damaged and is on fire. Al Jazeera showed a video of black smoke rising from an oil plant. It is unclear what caused the blaze. AJE will also be showing an interview with Saif Gaddafi in 20 minutes.
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Mar 4, 2011 16:09
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When they say 'the rebel leader' do they mean politically or militarily (or both)?
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Mar 4, 2011 16:12
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I believe he was an army colonel, he way probably organising the defense of the city. It still sounds like they fought of the pro-Gaddafi forces, which is significant as it was one of Gaddafi's elite brigades. Although State TV is claiming otherwise:quote:Libyan state television is reporting that the eastern city of Zawiya is back under the control of the government. "The masses and the popular leadership in Zawiya have managed to secure the city and wrest control from terrorist elements," it says. It sounds like that the attack of Ras Lanuf has turned into a major push by the rebels: quote:Translator in Ajdabiya tells us radio station is being used to urge extra rebel forces to press on to Ras Lanuf having secured Brega
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Mar 4, 2011 16:15
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Brown Moses posted:The Dutch soldiers are being paraded about on State TV: Wait, I guess I'm confused. Couldn't this basically give a green light for European intervention?
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Mar 4, 2011 16:36
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Zawiyah Claims that the rebels still hold Zawiyah: quote:A rebel tells the Associated Press that their military commander in Zawiya was killed by anti-aircraft gunfire during an offensive by government forces on Friday morning. Alaa al-Zawi says three other rebel fighters were killed and dozens of people were injured in the fighting, but that the city remains under opposition control. Details of todays attacks quote:One resident of Zawiya has told the BBC about the assault on the city by Col Gaqddafi's forces: "Today this morning about 1100 the Gaddafi forces started trying to get into Zawiya city from the west border, from the Suleyman side. They opened fire immediately... The crowd started to defend themselves and they tried to shoot them back but you know, the crowd bring us a lot of guns, a lot of weapons. A lot of people been died and more have been injured. Most of the injured people we couldn't collect them because they opened fire on the ambulances so they took the injured and we don't know what happened with them." Libya State TV make more claims: quote:Libyan state television is reporting that tanks, armoured personnel carriers and rocket-launchers have been seized from rebels in the town of Zawiya, west of Tripoli. The Guardian posted some footage of the attack on Zawiyah: quote:This very noisy video was apparently shot in Zawiyah earlier today. Large groups of men can be seen fleeing and taking cover from about 4:30 in, with what sounds like gunfire being heard in the background. At 5:15 a man is shown with his face, neck and chest covered in blood. He is not moving. The footage was posted on the Libya 17 February website, which claims it is the first footage from Zawiyah today. Gaddafi and the law Interpol also issued an orange notice on Gaddafi and friends: quote:Cross-border police agency Interpol issues "orange notice" against Col Gaddafi and 15 other Libyan nationals - "in a bid to warn member states of the danger posed by the movement of these individuals and their assets". quote:Interpol says it issued its "orange notice" about Col Gaddafi to aid the enforcement of UN sanctions on Libya and help the International Criminal Court carry out an investigation into alleged human rights abuses in recent weeks. The aim of the notice is to pool intelligence to make sure the named individuals cannot get around the UN-imposed travel ban or asset freeze, Interpol says. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Mar 4, 2011 |
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Mar 4, 2011 16:38
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Sky News is also saying they were there during the attack Zawiyah and managed to get a lot of footage.
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Mar 4, 2011 16:41
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Brown Moses posted:More news from Egypt: This is kind of apropos of nothing, but I've been doing some reading of what happened in 1848 and after 1789 in Europe. It seems the common thread for both of these continent spanning revolutionary movements is how quickly it was rolled back. Once change had symbolically occurred (deposing of king, new constitution, etc), counter-revolutionary forces exploited cracks between hard core revolutionaries (who keep pressing escalating demands) and the more moderate bourgeois, with people with low incomes trying to scrape by happy to just get back to work. In Egypt, I remember a report by someone traveling deep into Egypt interviewing people angry at the protesters in Tahrir for making their lives harder (less tourism meant a direct hit to their income). This was from before Mubarak was deposed. My point after all that, I guess, is that I hope that the revolution doesn't splinter once a sliver of change has been presented. Because there are huge forces waiting in the wings to return things to the status quo. e:
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Mar 4, 2011 16:44
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Alman posted:Wait, I guess I'm confused. Couldn't this basically give a green light for European intervention? They weren't really paraded. There were some shots of them on couches talking drinking soda. Anyway, I'm pretty sure that the Dutch government is looking at every possible way to get those soldiers back non-violently because I am pretty sure they would be executed doublequick if there was any sort of force involved from our side.
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Mar 4, 2011 16:46
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Zawiyahquote:An improvised force of revolutionaries has been pushed back to the central square in Zawiyah, where about 2,000 anti-Gaddfi protesters are getting ready to make a "last stand", a rebel spokesman has told Reuters. Youssef Shagan said: quote:More about Zawiya, which is shaping up to be a key flashpoint: In a speech on 24 February, Col Gaddafi accused residents of Zawiya - the site of Libya's largest oil refinery - of siding with al-Qaeda. "You in Zawiya turn to Bin Laden," he said. "Those armed youngsters, our children, are incited by people who are wanted by America and the Western world... They have guns, they feel trigger happy and they shoot especially when they are stoned with drugs."
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Mar 4, 2011 16:49
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Seriously, what's with Gaddafi's fixation on  ?
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Mar 4, 2011 16:56
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Saif Gaddafi is giving an interview on AJE. Quick summary is he's denying everything, all the usual bullshit. Just goes to show a wider audience he's as delusional as his father.
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Mar 4, 2011 16:58
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Times posted:Remember how historically, people lost their taste in representational art of human figures for a while, after the photos of the twisted bodies in the holocaust left a really terrifying impression on everyone. 1. As far as I know, art always changes from being rather realistic to rather unrealistic and so forth - at least in western and eastern europe, that's been the case for the last few centuries... I'd like to see some proof that war- or holocaust photos had an influence on that. 2. Everybody likes shooting virtual mid-eastern people (and Russians, Americans, aliens (extraterrestrial or not), the undead, pigs, flying blocks in space... it doesn't matter) Proof from the ArmA 2 thread that even egyptians do it: Ham's second post after the egyptian blackout was in the ArmA2 thread Shageletic posted:This is kind of apropos of nothing, but I've been doing some reading of what happened in 1848 and after 1789 in Europe. It seems the common thread for both of these continent spanning revolutionary movements is how quickly it was rolled back. Once change had symbolically occurred (deposing of king, new constitution, etc), counter-revolutionary forces exploited cracks between hard core revolutionaries (who keep pressing escalating demands) and the more moderate bourgeois, with people with low incomes trying to scrape by happy to just get back to work. In Egypt, I remember a report by someone traveling deep into Egypt interviewing people angry at the protesters in Tahrir for making their lives harder (less tourism meant a direct hit to their income). This was from before Mubarak was deposed. I'm a bit worried about that as well - on the bright side, it seems to be an essential step in the development of a freeish society. At least they finally get the chance to make the same mistakes we made instead of being governed by regimes that were one way or another put in place by people from farther up north (~30° N and upwards) Warthog fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Mar 4, 2011 |
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Mar 4, 2011 17:21
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Namarrgon posted:Do you really think Gaddafi gives a flying gently caress about breaking international law? No I just liked the symmetry of it and Gaddafi's increasing descent into absolute lunacy
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Mar 4, 2011 17:27
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quote:The Associated Press has these details of key opposition figures
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Mar 4, 2011 17:49
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Guardian evening summary:quote:Time for an evening summary.
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Mar 4, 2011 17:50
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The Guardian has this excellent interactive map of fighting in Libya.
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Mar 4, 2011 17:52
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Not related to Libya, but definitely related to the broader struggle that's happening across the Arab world. You don't need to understand Arabic to appreciate this video or understand how brilliant it is. It's a female Arab comedian's skit involving gender roles reversed in traditional Arab society: http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=181965415169312
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Mar 4, 2011 18:30
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Shageletic posted:This is kind of apropos of nothing, but I've been doing some reading of what happened in 1848 and after 1789 in Europe. It seems the common thread for both of these continent spanning revolutionary movements is how quickly it was rolled back. Once change had symbolically occurred (deposing of king, new constitution, etc), counter-revolutionary forces exploited cracks between hard core revolutionaries (who keep pressing escalating demands) and the more moderate bourgeois, with people with low incomes trying to scrape by happy to just get back to work. In Egypt, I remember a report by someone traveling deep into Egypt interviewing people angry at the protesters in Tahrir for making their lives harder (less tourism meant a direct hit to their income). This was from before Mubarak was deposed. Well, the first involved a continent wide war in Europe, with millions dead. The second was crushed because lol human rights in 1848? The world is a lot different now, hopefully things will change.
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Mar 4, 2011 18:32
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Chade Johnson posted:Well, the first involved a continent wide war in Europe, with millions dead. The second was crushed because lol human rights in 1848? The world is a lot different now, hopefully things will change. Well, I agree that the first really doesn't have anything to do with the current situation, but the second certainly does. The region this is all taking place in doesn't have the best human rights record (even compared with central Europe in the 1840s.) Look at Libya. Gaddafi don't give a poo poo 'bout no human rights. (No seriously, what's this about rights? I can't just slaughter my own citizens? Psshh.)
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Mar 4, 2011 18:59
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Via Twitterfall:
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Mar 4, 2011 19:08
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Times posted:Remember how historically, people lost their taste in representational art of human figures for a while, after the photos of the twisted bodies in the holocaust left a really terrifying impression on everyone. Like others have said, not likely, but I think military FPS games set in the Middle East are starting to go away, although it's more likely do to the Iraq War but also from oversaturation of the genre and more relevancy to the players. For instance, there's more and more games being set in the United States, because there's a lot more variety visually, in terrain, etc., than there is in the Mid-East. For example, there's large sections of COD4:MW2 that take place in the United States and that ridiculous "NK takes over the world" game Homefront coming out. Also, there's been some criticism over the military-style shooter, but also again due to it's oversaturation of the market and nothing to do current events. And again, there's been a reaction in the market: Bulletstorm and Duke Nukem Forever, which are not-serious shooter games with unrealistic weapons. To get off that subject, if it takes more celebrities like Nelly Furtado and Mariah Carey to get called out because of their performing at Qaddaffi's parties, I'm all for it. If that's all it takes to break that TMZ bubble and report what's happening in Libya, then so be it.
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Mar 4, 2011 19:33
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Ras Lanufquote:The Guardian's Martin Chulov tweets: "Ras Lanuf clashes have led to numerous casualties, locals tell me. #libya #feb17. Ambulances streaming south from Ajdabiya." quote:Martin Chulov's tweet is backed up by this tweet from Soliman Albrassi: "3 burned bodies arrived now to Ras Lanuf hospital now, Qadfi army burn libyan soliders who refused to kill libyan viva#libya viva libya" Misarata quote:Human rights group Amnesty International has alleged that pro-government forces fired on medical staff in the town of Misrata on Thursday. Two Red Crescent workers were apparently injured in what Amnesty called "a deliberate attack on medical professionals". Zawiya quote:Claim and counter-claim over the fate of Zawiya. Iyad El-Baghdadi tweets: "Eyewitness on Aljazeera now live from Azawiya: Regime claims that they've retaken our city are bald lies. #Libya" quote:My colleague Peter Beaumont has just called from Libya with an account of what has been happening in Zawiyah, the town 30 miles west of Tripoli which has been the scene of heavy fighting between pro- and anti-government forces all day. Tripoli quote:The BBC's Middle East editor Jeremy Bowen reports from Tajoura. At the moment it's not an equal fight, he says: if the rebels are to topple Col Gaddafi, they'll need help from the inside and large numbers of people on the streets. At the moment they have neither, he adds. quote:Sarah Abdallah tweets: "The #Tajoura district of #Tripoli has been completely sealed off by the forces of#Gaddafi. No one can get in and no one can get out. #Feb17" Live blogs BBC Guardian AJE Other links Twitterfall AJE talks to Saif Gaddafi BBC Interactive Map Guardian Interactive Map
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Mar 4, 2011 19:40
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Are there any international aid programs ongoing in Libya right now? As in food drops or whatever?
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Mar 4, 2011 19:45
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They have one of CQ's sons on AJ, I think it might be a re-run. He is mad. The interviewer is doing her best to question him, but his answers are delusional. She is soldiering on, although several times she has had to stifle laughs while listening to his answers, but he wont accept any evidence of what is happening inside of Libya. He will not accept that he can not bomb his people into liking him. She even suggested that he does not know what is happening in his country. I have no idea how she manages to stay straight faced. Moreover, how does she not take the camera and beat him to death with it?
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Mar 4, 2011 19:51
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Pureauthor posted:Are there any international aid programs ongoing in Libya right now? As in food drops or whatever? I've heard some bits about aid being sent to Benghazi, but most of it is going to the countries borders to help refugees. RunningOnEmpty posted:They have one of CQ's sons on AJ, I think it might be a re-run. He is mad. The interviewer is doing her best to question him, but his answers are delusional. She is soldiering on, although several times she has had to stifle laughs while listening to his answers, but he wont accept any evidence of what is happening inside of Libya. He will not accept that he can not bomb his people into liking him. She even suggested that he does not know what is happening in his country. Think its this interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFigOpOBpxo
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Mar 4, 2011 20:21
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Zawiyahquote:Pro-Gaddafi forces appear to have fought their way into the centre of the disputed town of Zawiyah, the focal point of today's fighting, according to Reuters: Ras Lanuf quote:Better news for the anti-Gaddafi forces: Reuters is reporting that the oil-rich eastern Libyan town of Ras Lanuf has been taken by the rebels, according to two rebel soldiers.
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Mar 4, 2011 20:26
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An organisation you should donate too is always going to be Médecins Sans Frontières because healthcare and medical supplies are going to be so important over the coming weeks and months.
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Mar 4, 2011 20:30
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Sounds like Gaddafi will be giving a speech fairly soonish, worth keeping an eye on AJE.
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Mar 4, 2011 20:33
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quote:Clovercelt RT @iyad_elbaghdadi: It seems that today in Ras Lanuf's action, some Furjan soldiers under #Gaddafi refused to comply. #Libya Militia refusing orders? good times for Ghadaffi.
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Mar 4, 2011 20:38
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The guy that started this site was just on CNBC. http://www.intrade.com/v4/home/ I haven't seen it before...and it blew my mind.
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Mar 4, 2011 20:39
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Ogive posted:Militia refusing orders? good times for Ghadaffi. There were reports earlier of soldiers who had been set on fire for refusing orders arriving in rebel hospitals from Ras Lanuf. Apparently a lot of the fighting their was between gaddafi's soldiers.
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Mar 4, 2011 20:46
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Ras Lanuf Both sides are claiming control of the city: quote:Libyan Deputy Foreign Minister Khaled Kaim via Reuters: "The government controls it (Ras Lanouf), everything is calm." quote:Rebel fighter Suleh Sultan tells AFP: "We've taken their barracks (in Ras Lanouf). The residential area is being combed now for remnants (of government forces)."
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Mar 4, 2011 20:58
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quote:AJA reporter in Ras Lanuf says Gaddafi troops can't leave from the east since it's held by rebels; fleeing blindly into the desert. #Libya
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Mar 4, 2011 21:14
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