Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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TangerineDream: Aug 1, 2006; White people did this

I wonder what it'll take to get Ghadaffi to use his mustard gas

# ? Mar 4, 2011 21:17

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 13:46

Finlander: Feb 21, 2011

TangerineDream posted:

I wonder what it'll take to get Ghadaffi to use his mustard gas

IIRC, they don't have the means to actually use the gas.

# ? Mar 4, 2011 21:21

DrLaserfalcon: Nov 7, 2010

Don't worry, I'm sure everything in Libya will stabilize shortly. I mean, sure there's a civil war between two entrenched sides, and sure... children are in the streets, directing traffic... But it's nothing to worry about.

http://www.frequency.com/video/11-year-old-boy-steps-in-for-revolution/3069472

# ? Mar 4, 2011 21:33

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

I think losing Ras Lanuf is very bad Gadaffi, his ability to defend his cities has been brought into question, especially seeing the forces there were the same forces attacking Brega the day before, so it wasn't like the place was undefended.

# ? Mar 4, 2011 21:35

Ziir: Nov 20, 2004; by Ozmaugh

Brown Moses posted:

Sounds like Gaddafi will be giving a speech fairly soonish, worth keeping an eye on AJE.

How soon is soon? I was going to step out to go to the store but I can wait...

# ? Mar 4, 2011 21:50

Cacatua: Jan 17, 2006

ibroxmassive posted:

An organisation you should donate too is always going to be M�decins Sans Fronti�res because healthcare and medical supplies are going to be so important over the coming weeks and months.

Right, that's the organization I frequently donate to. MSF is currently trying to get medical teams into Libya although for now they can only get people into Benghazi and the border areas. They have gotten tonnes of medical supplies into Benghazi via Egypt.

They're also helping out in other troubled spots, including the Ivory Coast and Haiti.

quote:

I wonder what it'll take to get Ghadaffi to use his mustard gas

He was asked if he'd use mustard gas in this interview (minute 13):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12607478

He didn't actually give a straight answer but asks if it's logical for one to use such a weapon even against his enemies. Obviously not, but he's not exactly logical, so he didn't quite say no.

That said, as noted, he may not have the means to actually use chemical weapons.

Cacatua fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Mar 4, 2011

# ? Mar 4, 2011 21:55

Young Freud: Nov 26, 2006

Cacatua posted:

That said, as noted, he may not have the means to actually use chemical weapons.

This is a good point. Mustard gas (or any chemical weapon, for that matter) has to be deployed almost constantly for it to have any real effect. To kill someone, it's like holding down a hose on a fire: if you let up before the fire is extinguished, then it'll flare up again. The area has to be saturated, especially when dealing with groups. The gassing of Halajab in Iraq took five hours of constant bombardment and spraying from aircraft.

From what we've been seeing, Qaddafi has only been able to deploy his aircraft in small numbers on hit-and-run bombing raids. He is incapable of deploying chemical weapons in an effective, assault-breaking fashion.

# ? Mar 4, 2011 22:06

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

"You want jobs? Oh, we'll give you jobs alright." Oman recruits 10,000 more police.

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/oman/royal-oman-police-to-recruit-10-000-omanis-1.771669 posted:

Lt-General Al Ma�amari, whose resignation is one of the demands by the protesters in the country after police firing allegedly killed two people in Sohar, said that 500 recruits will join the ROP on Sunday from the Sultan Qaboos Police Academy in Nizwa.

Muscat: Lieutenant-General Malik Bin Sulaiman Al Ma'amari, Inspector General of Police and Customs in Oman, has announced that 10,000 Omanis will be given employment in the Royal Oman Police (ROP) in response to the Sultan Qaboos Bin Saeed�s directives to provide 50,000 jobs to Omanis. Lt-General Al Ma�amari, whose resignation is one of the demands by the protesters in the country after police firing allegedly killed two people in Sohar, said that 500 recruits will join the ROP on Sunday from the Sultan Qaboos Police Academy in Nizwa. He added that in coordination with the Ministry of Manpower, the ROP has already completed procedures for recruiting 3, 000 citizens and send them immediately to the training ROP centres.

Meanwhile, Sheikh Abdullah Bin Nasser Al Bakri, Minister of Manpower, in a statement to Oman News Agency today (Friday) said that 15, 000 jobs would be offered to Omanis in the private sector in different disciplines and professions.He asked jobseekers to register with the regional departments of the ministry so that arrangements could be made to allocate employment for them.

Xandu fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Mar 4, 2011

# ? Mar 4, 2011 22:09

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Ziir posted:

How soon is soon? I was going to step out to go to the store but I can wait...

Could be anytime, he's not been out yet.

# ? Mar 4, 2011 22:18

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Seems like the security services in Egypt have been busy shreding documents
http://yfrog.com/gyjd1kgj

quote:

There are continued reports of protests and some violence around the state security building in Alexandria, with rumours of tons of documents being shredded and burned there by members of the Mubarak regime's security forces.

There's a lot of talk on the subject on the Twitter #alex hashtag � but it's not clear exactly what's going on.

Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Mar 4, 2011

# ? Mar 4, 2011 22:55

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

The security services in Egypt are systematically destroying the evidence of their crimes:

quote:

The Associated Press has few details of the protests outside (and inside) the state security building in Alexandria:

quote:
Hundreds of Egyptian protesters have marched on a building belonging to the internal security service in Alexandria, and a medic says officers inside fired on the crowd, injuring three demonstrators.

Military forces arrived and dispersed the crowd of around 1,000 people after a tense standoff. The state news agency says protesters set four police cars on fire.

The demonstrators who forced out President Hosni Mubarak last month are demanding that Egypt's State Security Agency be dissolved. Its agents are blamed for some of the worst human rights violations during Mubarak's rule.

On Twitter there are suggestions of similar protests in Nokki and Nasr City, but little evidence otherwise.

quote:

Video just posted to YouTube appears to be from inside the state security HQ in Alexandria, showing mounds of shredded documents and some of the protesters who stormed the building.

Al-Jazeera also has an eyewitness to the siege of the state security building in Alexandria:

"People are still there, the state security forces are still inside, surrounded by the army. There's probably hundreds and thousands of people here now, in the building ... [the army] is also saying they have orders to arrest [the state security officers]," but say they can't do so until they are able to take them out of the building safely, the eyewitness says.

The clashes broke out earlier this evening, with the eyewitness reporting seeing Molotov cocktails thrown from the building and ammunition fired.

# ? Mar 4, 2011 23:45

Patter Song: Mar 26, 2010; Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.; Fun Shoe

So, just making this clear. To the best of our knowledge, rebels lost Zawiya yet took Ras Lanuf?

# ? Mar 4, 2011 23:46

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Yeah, whether or not they hold onto it is a different question. Apparently there's a lot of rebels heading towards Ras Lanuf, and the nonregulars want to keep pushing on.

# ? Mar 4, 2011 23:52

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

quote:

The Associated Press reports that the Libyan government's attempts to cut the country off from the internet appears to have succeeded:

quote:
Arbor Networks, a Chelmsford, Massachussets, network security company said Friday that all internet traffic coming in and out of Libya had ceased, starting at about noon EST Thursday (7pm in Tripoli, Libya). Google's transparency report, which shows traffic to the company's sites from various countries, also showed that internet traffic had fallen to zero in Libya.

That might explain why updates have been more sparse today. But this tactic worked so well for the Mubarak regime, after all.

# ? Mar 5, 2011 00:08

Apology: Nov 12, 2005; by Y Kant Ozma Post

Xandu posted:

Yeah, it's a complicated situation. My understanding of it is that General Athor is pro-secession, but anti-SPLA, the de-facto government of South Sudan. There was some attempt to bring him into the fold through the cease-fire the article talks about (his forces were also given amnesty and were supposed to lay down their arms), but there was apparently an attack by someone in early february. Athor claims the SPLA attacked his bases, but the SPLA claims that Gen. Athor attacked them and massacred civilians. Whatever actually did happen resulted in hundreds of deaths.

I won't simplify it by saying one side is good and one is bad, but I wouldn't necessarily believe Athor's story.

From many pages ago, but:

You are correct, it's much more complicated than Al Jazeera made it out to be. I should have known better than to just take Al Jazeera's word for it and let them form my opinion for me :shobon:

And now for an update on my very favorite revolution, Ivory Coast:

quote:

France has called for a United Nations inquiry into violence in C�te d'Ivoire, as the military denied responsibility for Thursday's killing of six women in Abidjan. Five African leaders are to return to the divided country in an attempt to broker peace between outgoing president Laurent Gbagbo and his rival, Alassane Ouattara.

"France would like the [UN Security] Council to institute a credible and impartial commission of inquiry under the auspices of the United Nations," foreign ministry official Bernard Valero said Friday.

The US on Thursday condemned the "moral bankruptcy" of Gbagbo's regime.

And UN human rights boss, Navi Pillay, said she was "extremely concerned about the increasing violence and human rights abuses" and would submit a report to the council before its session closes on 25 March.

The UN's military chief Alain Le Roy told the Security Council that the army, which is loyal to Gbagbo, had opened with heavy machine guns on a demonstration by women in the northern Abobo neighbourhood of Abidjan, causing a number of deaths.

But the military on Friday denied responsibility and said it was not operating in Abobo.

The pro-Gbagbo press blamed "rebels" supporting Ouattara, who has been recognised by most foreign countries of this year's presidential election.

The latest violence has forced hundreds to flee Abobo and violence in the west has caused a rise in the number of refugees fleeing into neighbouring Liberia.

The UN refugees agency, the UNHCR, has suspended plans to build a refugee camp in the west due to security fears, although the agency says that it is still operating in the western city of Guiglo.

UN officials say that roadblocks outside its office in Abidjan hinder access to the needy.

A panel of African leaders met in Mauritania on Friday before going onto C�te d'Ivoire in a new attempt to mediate.

The UN was forced to recognise Wednesday that it had wrongly accused Belarus of arming the Gbagbo regime.

http://allafrica.com/stories/201103041144.html

Ivory Coast has 99 problems and...nm. The really interesting part is that the UN has had to back away from its accusations against Belarus for providing Ivory Coast with parts for attack helicopters (and the helicopters themselves at an earlier date) in spite of a UN embargo. Government forces drove the UN inspectors away by shooting at them, so they weren't able to prove the allegations, and now the UN is eating crow over Ban Ki Moon's earlier statements about Belarus.

If shooting at them doesn't work, try thirst and cholera:

quote:

Amnesty International
C�te d'Ivoire: Power and Water Cuts Deepen Humanitarian Crisis

4 March 2011

Amnesty International has warned of a deepening humanitarian crisis in C�te d'Ivoire after electricity and water supplies were cut to large parts of the country earlier this week.

Central, northern and western areas of the country are now suffering from poor sanitation and disrupted medical facilities, according to information and eyewitness accounts gathered by Amnesty International.

On 3 March 2011, the Ivorian electricity company has denied any responsibility for the power cuts, which began on 28 February. The company said officials loyal to outgoing President Laurent Gbagbo had made the cuts "for national security reasons".

The areas affected are mostly controlled by forces loyal to Alassane Ouattara, the internationally recognized winner of the November 2010 presidential elections.

"Outgoing President Laurent Gbagbo must immediately order the reestablishment of water and electricity supplies in these areas," said Ga�tan Mootoo, Amnesty International's West Africa researcher.

"The whole sanitary system in these areas is being affected and is stopping medical personnel from carrying out their work which could lead to the spread of disease," said Ga�tan Mootoo.

A senior doctor in the town of Man in the west of the country, told Amnesty International: "It's nearly impossible to carry out surgery as we only have one electric generator.�

"We are running short of fuel. This will have dramatic consequences for people needing urgent care. This is particularly true for pregnant women needing emergency obstetric care including Caesarean sections."

The situation is worsening in the country's second largest city, Bouak�, in the north.

A senior doctor there told Amnesty International: "As we have no electricity, we cannot receive people who need urgent care during the night as we only have torches. The sick cannot wash themselves or go to the toilets in safe conditions."

The cuts are also affecting areas controlled by those authorities loyal to Laurent Gbagbo in the west.

In the town of Du�kou�, a social worker told Amnesty International: "All the sanitary facilities are blocked. People are now getting water from wells and small ponds and rivers where water is unsafe. This could lead to widespread epidemics such as cholera."

A doctor in Du�kou� told Amnesty International today that he can only work during day light.

http://allafrica.com/stories/201103041143.html

How long do you think you could last without water, electricity, and sanitation? I think I could maybe make it three days. Most of our food would go bad, but we have a good supply of canned and dry foods that would keep us going, and a small supply of bottled water that isn't nearly enough. I don't think I'd have the heart to turn away our neighbors in need, so our supplies wouldn't last long.

I can't get past the paywall into the New York Times, but there's an article there that paints a grim picture of the conditions in Abidjan, one of the major cities where the fighting broke out:

quote:

Political Crisis In Ivory Coast Cripples A City
Published on March 4th, 2011 18:13
Author :ADAM NOSSITER
Published in United States by New York Times Company

Click here for Original Article
Original source: New York Times

ABIDJAN, Ivory Coast At the Marcory market, iron shutters are pulled down tight over storefronts for block after block. In the Koumassi neighborhood, idle men drift up to a rare open vendor, cadging a lone cigarette. Fish and grain stalls on the road into another area, Abobo, are deserted, save the rats scurrying in a facing gutter. Lines of women, fleeing the violence in a single-file exodus, balance possessions on their heads and then scatter at the sound of nearby gunfire. Women chanted �We want peace� in a spontaneous march on Tuesday in the Abidjan suburb of Koumassi. Residents enjoyed a lull in violence in the Abidjan suburb of Koumassi. Abidjan, once West Africas most important city, is collapsing under the weight of Laurent Gbagbos armed fight to stay in power, three months after losing a presidential election. Businesses are shutting, employees are being laid off by the dozen and families complain of going without meals. Traffic is minimal, and roadblocks operated by rock-wielding, pro-Gbagbo youth groups are everywhere. Amid the torrent of international sanctions against him, banks have closed, all A.T.M.s have shut down and cash is rarer by the day. But still Mr. Gbagbo refuses to yield. If anything, the worlds shift of focus to the uprisings in the Arab world appears to have emboldened him. Bloody incursions continue into neighborhoods that support the opposition. Xenophobic language airs nightly on the state television channel and from the mouths of government officials France, the United States and the United Nations are provoking civil war in Ivory Coast, a Gbagbo spokesman, Alain Toussaint, said in a recent interview. And on Monday, Mr. Gbagbos forces fired on United Nations inspectors seeking to determine whether his government had imported attack helicopters from Belarus in violation of an arms embargo.

If you subscribe to the NY Times you can read the rest of the article here:

https://myaccount.nytimes.com/auth/...rssQ26emcQ3Drss

They managed to pay the majority of their payroll for public workers this month, but who knows if they'll be able to meet payroll next month. From the way things are going, it doesn't seem likely:

quote:

Africa RSS Feed
Sanctions Hurt Ivory Coast Economy
Scott Stearns | Abidjan March 04, 2011

Photo: AFP
Security contain clients standing outside the headquarters of the Bicici bank as they came to withdraw money in Abidjan, March 3, 2011
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UN: Ivorian Human Rights Violations Mounting
African Union, ECOWAS to Meet on Ivory Coast Crisis
Ivory Coast Gas Runs Low, Newspapers Close
Economic sanctions against Ivory Coast are hurting business in the world's top cocoa producer.

Thousands of civil servants line up along Abidjan's Rue des Banques, waiting to be paid their February salaries. When foreign banks closed last month because of regional sanctions against incumbent President Laurent Gbagbo, his government faced its biggest economic challenge yet: finding the cash to pay its workers, especially its soldiers.

Gbagbo's government quickly took charge of those banks and reopened them this week, just in time to pay civil servants 80 percent of their normal salaries.

"That will be a great success. I am sure they will be able to do it," said English teacher Ibrahim Kalo. He says the regional central bank move to cut off the Gbagbo government was a challenge to all Ivorians - a challenge that has been met.
"I think this was an operation to diabolize [demonize] the government of Cote d'Ivoire,� Kalo added. �But I think they can pay us. That is why we are standing now in the queue. You can see from all the banks here long lines of people waiting for money, and they will be paid. You can be sure of that. There is no trouble."

Winceslas Appia, general manager of Abidjan's Bank for Agricultural Financing says there is enough cash to take care of everyone. So people should remain calm, he said. Appia said the banks have put in place measures to reinforce their staff so everyone will be served.

Withdrawals limited

Personal withdrawals are limited to about $425 a day. Gbagbo's Minister of Economy and Finance, Desire Dallo says those limits are meant to help the banking system stay solvent.

Dallo is asking people not to withdraw all their money because the banking system works only if there is a balance between deposits and loans. Dallo said it is obvious that people are afraid that banks will close again. But he said these are now state-run banks that will not fail, so account holders should not panic and withdraw all their money because that will not help.

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/africa/Ivory-Coast-Economy-Hurt-by-Sanctions-Against-Incumbent-Government-117401273.html

There's been much political speculation that if they don't meet payroll, they're done for.

For a minute, the $425 withdrawal limit confused me---I can't pull $425 out of the ATM here. Then I realized that they're limited to withdrawals of $425 a day of any kind---I can still go inside the bank and withdraw every penny out of my checking if I want to, even if it's $10,000. Ivorians no longer have the freedom to do that.

Ahhh, the ol' Human Shield trick. That one never gets old:

quote:

Civilians used as 'human shields' in C�te d'Ivoire

04/03/2011
Civilians in the Abobo suburb of Abidjan, the commercial hub of C�te d'Ivoire are being used as 'human shields' to prevent attacks by forces loyal to Laurent Ggbabo.

Ivorian refugees
The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights in Geneva says that people are being prevented from leaving Abobo where forces loyal to Mr. Gbagbo are fighting with supporters of Alassane Outtara, the recognized winner of last year's presidential election.

Rupert Colville, the spokesman for the Human Rights Commissioner says people sheltering in public places and are being prevented from leaving.

"We have also received reports that a previously unknown group calling themselves 'The Invisible Commando' are preventing civilians from leaving the Abobo suburb of Abidjan and other suburbs as well and are effectively using civilians as human shields to prevent attacks by forces loyal to Mr. Gbagbo forces. We are particularly concerned about of reports of families who are essentially confined to buildings such as churches and other public places."

http://www.unmultimedia.org/radio/english/detail/115610.html

It also never seems to work the way the dictators imagine it will. It slows Western countries down, but it doesn't stop them. Eventually they decide to bomb what they want or need to bomb anyway in spite of any human shields. It may be slightly more effective in a place like Ivory Coast, in which opposition forces would be required to attack their own innocent countrymen. However, the Ivorians may find a way around it as well, or decide that preventing more innocent dead is less important than getting rid of Gbagbo.

I really haven't had much of a chance to check up on the protests in other countries I'm following such as Algeria, Albania, Oman, and Sudan, but I eventually will get it done and post the results here. You guys seem to have Libya, Yemen, and Egypt pretty well covered, so that's why I'm focusing on the smaller protests.

# ? Mar 5, 2011 00:10

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

quote:

Mostafa Mazen has more news from the protests currently going on outside the state security HQ in Alexandria, in a series of tweets (edited here for clarity):

quote:
I just got back from SS in #alex, what I saw:

1) smoke coming out of top floors

2) army vehicle from "mante2a shamaleya" calming ppl down and telling them to leave

3) army blocking entrance inside cordon and blocking entrance to bldg

4) sm ppl were already inside bldg, were throwing docs to protesters on the outside

5) military police carrying boxes containing docs out of the bldg, also TVs and a brand new fan!

Mostafa has also posted a set of photos of the crowd outside the building, including a smashed police riot van.

# ? Mar 5, 2011 00:20

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Apology posted:

I really haven't had much of a chance to check up on the protests in other countries I'm following such as Algeria, Albania, Oman, and Sudan, but I eventually will get it done and post the results here. You guys seem to have Libya, Yemen, and Egypt pretty well covered, so that's why I'm focusing on the smaller protests.

For Algeria, @themoornextdoor and @tweetsintheme follow it pretty well.

Sudan, Girifina does a lot of stuff there and update their blog about it. Mixture of arabic and english.

# ? Mar 5, 2011 00:31

Devils Affricate: Jan 22, 2010

Wow, page 100 already. It's hard to keep up with this thread.

I'd just like to pop in to say that although I haven't been posting in here, I've been avidly following the thread, and I really appreciate all the constant updates (especially from you, Brown Moses). I'm sure there are plenty of other lurkers in here as well, so don't stop posting just because you seem to be only one of about 4 active people in the thread. Thanks, guys!

# ? Mar 5, 2011 00:33

Narmi: Feb 26, 2008

Apology posted:

I can't get past the paywall into the New York Times, but there's an article there that paints a grim picture of the conditions in Abidjan, one of the major cities where the fighting broke out:

If you subscribe to the NY Times you can read the rest of the article here:

https://myaccount.nytimes.com/auth/...rssQ26emcQ3Drss

Not sure why it's working for me and not you, but here's the full article for anyone in a similar situation:

quote:

ABIDJAN, Ivory Coast � At the Marcory market, iron shutters are pulled down tight over storefronts for block after block. In the Koumassi neighborhood, idle men drift up to a rare open vendor, cadging a lone cigarette. Fish and grain stalls on the road into another area, Abobo, are deserted, save the rats scurrying in a facing gutter. Lines of women, fleeing the violence in a single-file exodus, balance possessions on their heads and then scatter at the sound of nearby gunfire.

Abidjan, once West Africa�s most important city, is collapsing under the weight of Laurent Gbagbo�s armed fight to stay in power, three months after losing a presidential election.

Businesses are shutting, employees are being laid off by the dozen and families complain of going without meals. Traffic is minimal, and roadblocks operated by rock-wielding, pro-Gbagbo youth groups are everywhere. Amid the torrent of international sanctions against him, banks have closed, all A.T.M.�s have shut down and cash is rarer by the day.

But still Mr. Gbagbo refuses to yield. If anything, the world�s shift of focus to the uprisings in the Arab world appears to have emboldened him. Bloody incursions continue into neighborhoods that support the opposition. Xenophobic language airs nightly on the state television channel and from the mouths of government officials � �France, the United States and the United Nations are provoking civil war in Ivory Coast,� a Gbagbo spokesman, Alain Toussaint, said in a recent interview. And on Monday, Mr. Gbagbo�s forces fired on United Nations inspectors seeking to determine whether his government had imported attack helicopters from Belarus in violation of an arms embargo.

This week also, nine newspapers opposed to Mr. Gbagbo closed, saying they could no longer withstand police harassment and constant threats of violence against their journalists. �They�ve been summoned repeatedly by the Crime Squad� of the Gbagbo government, said a spokesman for the papers, Dembele Al Seni.

Meanwhile, the man who nations across the world say defeated Mr. Gbagbo in last year�s election, Alassane Ouattara, a former International Monetary Fund official, remains trapped in a lagoon-side hotel, protected by United Nations troops.

But increasing signs of armed assaults against Mr. Gbagbo�s forces have appeared in recent days. Some of his soldiers� estimates range from 3 to 27 � were killed in Abobo last week by a shadowy militia that fades into the neighborhood after attacking, leaving pro-Gbagbo troops, rifles bristling from the sides of trucks, cautiously patrolling Abobo�s edges. And late last week, gunmen affiliated with the armed rebellion against the government in 2002 captured several small towns in the country�s west from Mr. Gbagbo�s forces.

�It�s war in the trenches, not open warfare,� said a diplomat, who was not authorized to speak publicly on the matter, predicting further bloodshed and no quick resolution.

He said armed �pressure� on Mr. Gbagbo had begun, aided by defections from his troops. With diminishing revenue coming into the government � European Union sanctions have blocked trade with certain entities tied to the government, including the ports � and the nation�s accounts at the regional central bank shut off by West African leaders, only about half of February�s army and civil-service salaries were paid, the diplomat said.

The new resistance has increased perils here. �The danger of reprisals on civilians is very real,� the diplomat said. �I�m afraid the price of his fall could be very heavy, like Qaddafi.�

In Abidjan, blocklong fields of uncollected garbage are not uncommon, and signs of exasperation with this stifling status quo are everywhere.

On Tuesday morning, dozens of women marched in a tight pack through the mostly pro-Ouattara Koumassi neighborhood waving leafy branches and chanting �We want peace!� � one of a number of spontaneous anti-Gbagbo demonstrations here in recent days.

Gunfire sounded the previous night in Koumassi, and there were several deaths. Mr. Gbagbo�s forces often raid in darkness, the residents explained. Then on Tuesday again, the pop-popping of semiautomatic rifles by Mr. Gbagbo�s troops could be heard after several minutes, a warning to the marchers. Yet they kept on.

�We�re marching because we are tired,� Kankou Samak� shouted above the din. �We can�t sleep. We are not able to eat. And our husbands are not working since Gbagbo demonized the whites,� she said, explaining that European-owned firms here had shut down or suspended operations.

�We are hungry. There is no work for our men,� said another marcher, Aminata Traor�.

A line of neighborhood men watched the women, approving but not joining in. �They are fed up,� said Maiga Mikailou, a hardware-stall owner, explaining that his store had been closed for a week. �Nobody is eating.�

Elsewhere in Abidjan, fear prevailed over anger.

�It�s too frightening,� said an Abobo resident, Jean Kimon, walking slowly down the road out of the neighborhood, carrying his possessions in a small plastic bag. �Everyone�s leaving.�

A thin trickle of women followed Mr. Kimon. �Too dangerous to stay,� a woman said, walking as fast as the large plastic bag on her head would allow her to. �The attackers are threatening us,� she said. �There are bodies on our street.�

Shattered storefronts lined the road, looted over the weekend by pro-Gbagbo youth in a neighborhood supporting his rival, residents said. The political violence has added to the economic misery, which has become more acute as the crisis wears on.

�Everything�s broken,� said an unemployed electrician, Kouam� Konan, looking across the road. �Where are you going to work? Nobody can pay you anyway.�

The normally bustling Sococ� shopping center in Deux Plateaux, another neighborhood, was unusually quiet Tuesday afternoon. The president of Ivory Coast�s National Union of Shopkeepers, Abdoulaye Diakit�, slowly sipped a coffee and explained: �It�s total desolation. Our members are in a panic. They don�t know what to do. They have no access to their assets. And their stores have been looted.�

As the tense political stalemate continues in Abidjan, Ivory Coast, residents fled the Abobo neighborhood, an opposition stronghold.

Residents enjoyed a lull in violence in the Abidjan suburb of Koumassi.

Women chanted �We want peace� in a spontaneous march on Tuesday in the Abidjan suburb of Koumassi.

# ? Mar 5, 2011 01:14

neamp: Jun 24, 2003

Sounds like a massacre might be occurring in Zawiya tonight. There are going to be thousands of deaths as Gaddafi attempts to retake the cities in the west one by one.

# ? Mar 5, 2011 01:18

Narmi: Feb 26, 2008

With regards to incriminating documents in Egypt, does anyone know whatever came of the "Hell Room" in the NDP headquarters? I haven't heard anything about it since it was mentioned something like two weeks ago.

# ? Mar 5, 2011 01:20

DeadShort: Mar 12, 2005; 208v upside your head

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12654670

Article posted:

Several hundred mercenaries from the Tuareg community in the north African country of Mali have just joined government forces, a senior Malian official told the BBC

# ? Mar 5, 2011 01:50

MJB: Nov 22, 2003; "...by any means necessary."

Narmi posted:

As the tense political stalemate continues in Abidjan, Ivory Coast, residents fled the Abobo neighborhood, an opposition stronghold.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ? Mar 5, 2011 02:55

dirty shrimp money: Jan 8, 2001

Finlander posted:

IIRC, they don't have the means to actually use the gas.

That's been reported several times to be the case. Besides I think if the government forces had the means of launching mustard gas, even a crazy man like CQ would know breaking out WMDs changes the game internationally and might force a foreign intervention.

Is there going to be a thread for the civil war in Libya? Spade, spade, etc

# ? Mar 5, 2011 03:36

Spiky Ooze: Oct 27, 2005; Bernie Sanders is a friend to my planet (pictured)

click the shit outta^

House of Saud recruiting:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudis-mobilise-thousands-of-troops-to-quell-growing-revolt-2232928.html

The US is about to have to make a mother of a decision if things go bad there.

# ? Mar 5, 2011 04:08

YouTuber: Jul 31, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

Buy shitloads of gas and put it into containers because if Saudi Arabia goes up in smoke for some time expect a large spike in prices.

# ? Mar 5, 2011 04:18

Wiz: May 16, 2004; Nap Ghost

Spiky Ooze posted:

House of Saud recruiting:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudis-mobilise-thousands-of-troops-to-quell-growing-revolt-2232928.html

The US is about to have to make a mother of a decision if things go bad there.

The House of Saud falling would be the most amazing thing that could possibly come out of all this.

Here's hoping.

# ? Mar 5, 2011 04:20

mobn: May 23, 2005; by Ozmaugh

What is Qaddafi even hoping for at this point? If he wins, all he's going to have to rule over is a bunch of rubble and mercenaries. Is he just gonna keep the mercenaries on payroll and use them as citizen dolls or something?

# ? Mar 5, 2011 04:24

Lawman 0: Aug 17, 2010

Spiky Ooze posted:

House of Saud recruiting:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudis-mobilise-thousands-of-troops-to-quell-growing-revolt-2232928.html

The US is about to have to make a mother of a decision if things go bad there.

Oh a potential global financial crisis starting next week?
Best birthday present EVER!
(though seriously gently caress the House of Saud)

# ? Mar 5, 2011 04:30

Narmi: Feb 26, 2008

NPR released an article on Gaddafi's assets, and where and what they are:

Gadhafi's Frozen Assets: $32 Billion And Counting

quote:

This week tens of billions of dollars in assets belonging to Moammar Gadhafi, his family or perhaps the government of Libya were frozen. The United Nations and countries around the world, including the U.S., leveled the sanctions to punish Gadhafi for his violent crackdown on protesters.

To hear Gadhafi tell it, all this talk of his real estate holdings, investments and huge bank accounts is simply a Western conspiracy. "I have no assets and I don't take pride in keeping assets of American dollars," he told a rally of his supporters this week, according to an Al-Jazeera translation.

"If they are my personal accounts I am ready to have these accounts verified," he said. "My salary is only 465 dinars."

That's about $380, not much for the leader of an oil-rich nation.

But Adam Szubin, who's in charge of the financial sanctions office at the U.S. Treasury, has a much different assessment of Gadhafi's financial resources.

"It's obviously a pretty stunning figure," Szubin says, referring to the almost $32 billion in assets already frozen by U.S. authorities. And, he says, that number continues to grow.

"We're responding hourly to calls from institutions across the U.S. that are trying to verify or confirm whether they are holding government of Libya assets," Szubin adds.

But Szubin won't say exactly how or where the nearly $32 billion is invested. And the U.S. government won't say how much is in the Gadhafi clan's personal accounts, as opposed to Libyan government accounts.

J. Scott Carpenter, a Libya expert at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, says it's a distinction without a difference anyway. "The notion that there is some way to separate what is the family's from what is the state's is [a] nearly impossible task," Carpenter says.

One major vehicle for those global investments is the Libya Investment Authority, the country's sovereign wealth fund. The LIA is estimated to control around $70 billion.

The Gadhafi/Libya investments in Europe are more well-known than those in the U.S. For instance, the LIA and Libya's central bank own more than 7 percent of one of Italy's largest banks, UniCredit. Another entity, the Libyan Arab Foreign Investment Co., owns 7.5 percent of a major Italian soccer club.

Among other investments: a stake in a luxury hotel project overlooking Trafalgar Square in London and a small share of Pearson PLC, which publishes the Financial Times and The Economist. Carpenter says advancing Libya's interests and burnishing its reputation probably trumped profits as investment goals.

"I don't know that the investments were seen to be necessarily making money for the Libyan economy, but that would somehow be used to advance Libya's foreign policy or political interest as a state," Carpenter says.

Gadhafi's U.S. investments are more opaque than those in Europe. Reportedly, major New York banks including Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase and Goldman Sachs hold some Libyan assets. Also, officials of the politically connected private equity firm The Carlyle Group have had meetings with Libyan officials, including one of Gadhafi's sons. It's not clear whether they ultimately did business.

Carlyle's managing director, David Rubenstein, said this week that Moammar Gadhafi himself was not an investor. Nevertheless, Carpenter says, Gadhafi's interest in working with The Carlyle Group, which once employed the first President Bush and former British Prime Minister John Major, is instructive.

"I'm sure if you're looking for partners and you have $30 billion to spend, you want it to benefit those who might be able to help you later on to, for instance, get off of the terrorist list, or end the sanction regimes, or protect you in moments like this when you're under pressure domestically," Carpenter says.

Given Gadhafi's bloody crackdown, it's unlikely he'll find any business partners willing to go to bat for him now.

And tangentially related, an article about Al-Jazeera finding traction in the US recently, and how US cable news is falling behind:

Clinton Media Criticism Buoys Al-Jazeera

quote:

A decade ago the U.S. government attacked Al-Jazeera as a propagator of anti-American propaganda. Now Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton is citing the network for fine news coverage � and tweaking the U.S. media in the process.

The Arab broadcaster says it's ready to take advantage of what it considers a major boost in its acceptance in the United States.

Clinton, on the week many U.S. television outlets were preoccupied by the spectacle of actor Charlie Sheen, suggested during testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that American networks were falling behind in the competition for information.

Al-Jazeera has been a leader in changing people's minds and attitudes, Clinton told lawmakers Wednesday.

"Like it or hate it, it is really effective," Clinton said. "In fact, viewership of Al-Jazeera is going up in the United States because it is real news."

"You may not agree with it, but you feel like you're getting real news around the clock instead of a million commercials and, you know, arguments between talking heads and the kind of stuff that we do on our news that is not providing information to us, let alone foreigners."

In fact, Al-Jazeera's television viewership hasn't gone up much in the U.S. because it is still not widely available, seen only on scattered cable systems in Vermont, Ohio and Washington, D.C.

But online viewership of Al-Jazeera English spiked during the demonstrations in Egypt � up 2,500 percent at its peak, with nearly half of the followers from the United States, the network said.

Al-Jazeera has taken advantage of the moment, asking visitors to its website to click a tab that automatically generates a letter to the users' local cable system encouraging them to add the network. More than 40,000 e-mails have been generated, spokeswoman Molly Conroy said.

The network's leaders in the past two weeks have also visited with Time Warner, Comcast and Cablevision executives to seek space on their systems, she said.

"The events in Egypt have convinced an increasing number of Americans, the secretary of state included, that the coverage Al-Jazeera has provided for these events is something that is seen as a dramatic shift in perception of the network," said Abderrahim Foukara, Al-Jazeera's Washington bureau chief.

Fox News Channel's Michael Clemente said he was "surprised and kind of curious" by Clinton's remarks.

"We've got leadership issues there, the safety of people, the safety of our own people," said Clemente, senior vice president for news. "Some big issues. All of a sudden there are headlines about Al-Jazeera versus the news in this country? It's just surprising. Curious more than surprising."

Representatives from CNN, ABC, CBS and NBC news all declined comment Friday on what Clinton said.

But former CNN Washington bureau chief Frank Sesno agreed with her assessment.

"She's right," said Sesno, who is now director of the School of Media and Public Affairs at George Washington University.

"Cable news has become cable noise. It was intended to be an opportunity to inform people, and instead it has become an opportunity to inflame people."

The cable news shift toward opinion has paid off handsomely for ratings leader Fox News Channel and, to a lesser extent, MSNBC.

CNN has resisted a partisan drift to concentrate more on news and has suffered in the ratings the past couple of years. With budget cuts, the influence of the major broadcast news divisions has been waning.

Even with the move toward opinion, the news networks often provide informative coverage when there is breaking news, such as the Egyptian revolution, Sesno said.

What's lacking is an attention span � a willingness to stick with stories and provide context. There's an addiction to "this just in," he said.

Clinton's complimentary assessment of the Arab broadcaster is an about-face from just a decade ago, when the Bush administration complained that Al-Jazeera promoted those who opposed the United States. Former Secretary of State Donald Rumsfeld calling it "inexcusably biased."

That hostility played a big role in the network failing to get any traction with U.S. cable systems.

Al-Jazeera's Foukara said that with overseas audiences, particularly in the Arab world, the broadcaster finds a hunger for news.

"You can stay focused on a story for hours or days or even weeks on end," he said, "while in the U.S., the assumption is that people are not as interested in news, particularly news outside of the United States."

Sesno said the unrest in the Arab world could prove as important to Al-Jazeera as the first Gulf War was for establishing CNN in the United States.

The opinion of the former Washington bureau chief is pretty damning, as well as the part where news channels have drifted away from news to opinion.

Narmi fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Mar 5, 2011

# ? Mar 5, 2011 05:33

halt i am reptar!!: Jul 28, 2005; ~i'm just a dinosaur~

Looks like a sticky situation to me.

# ? Mar 5, 2011 05:38

Pureauthor: Jul 8, 2010; ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST

quote:

"Cable news has become cable noise. It was intended to be an opportunity to inform people, and instead it has become an opportunity to inflame people."

I like this line in particular.

# ? Mar 5, 2011 05:48

Hipster_Doofus: Dec 20, 2003; Lovin' every minute of it.

Moammar "crazy but not much of a diamond" Gaddafi posted:

"If they are my personal accounts I am ready to have these accounts verified," he said. "My salary is only 465 dinars."

This is totally the funniest batshitloonball thing out of his mouth yet.

# ? Mar 5, 2011 06:52

dr_rat: Jun 4, 2001

Hipster_Doofus posted:

This is totally the funniest batshitloonball thing out of his mouth yet.

Hey its quite probable that his official salary is only 465 dinars, so not technically a lie. You really don't ever need to be officially paid that much when your scamming billions.

# ? Mar 5, 2011 07:49

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

Aljazeera Reports the following:-

1. The battle of Zawiya for now has been won by the revolutionaries, the revolutionaries destroyed Two of Qaddafi's tanks, leading the main attacking force to break and withdraw with a few straggling snipers left behind, both sides are gearing up for a second attempt at retaking the city.

2. Qaddafi used a car bomb against an artillery depo near Benghazi, this depo was in the middle of a highly populated area, the result was literally over a thousand wounded with hundreds of dead, the pictures were too horrible to put on aljazeera.

3. Aljazeera English made this incredible interview with Saif al Islam, I wont say anything other than I want to marry the interviewer so bad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFigOpOBpxo

4. Ras Lanuf has been captured by the Revolutionaries, This is significant because this represents the first time a concerted offensive westward has been put forth by the revolutionaries, their success in beating the Qaddafi forces makes it even more significant.

Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Mar 5, 2011

# ? Mar 5, 2011 09:14

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

To expand on the above here's some key stuff from the BBC and AJE live blogs:
Zawiyah

quote:

A witness in Zawiya has meanwhile told al-Arabiya that government forces are firing from tanks at residential areas. "Now with all the artillery, tanks and armoured vehicles, we're seeing battles and killings we haven't seen in Iraq. I consider it total genocide," the man said. "The battles have now entered the city. More than 15 armoured vehicles entered two hours ago along with a tank. There is heavy firing in all the areas and mosques have announced 'jihad' against these brigades."

quote:

Sky news correspondent Alex Crawford in Zawiya says that in the last few minutes, the rebels have repelled the attack by the government forces. She says 25 to 30 tanks advanced from the east at dawn, and that the city was under attack for two and a half hours. But eventually, the rebels were victorious. People are now celebrating in the main square, she says, chanting and firing into the air. She also says she can see up to a dozen bodies of pro-Gaddafi fighters on the ground. The rebels have also destroyed three tanks.

quote:

Al-Arabiya is also now reporting that rebel fighters have repelled the attack on the western Libyan town of Zawiya by government forces and foreign mercenaries. A number of pro-Gaddafi troops have surrendered, it says. Earlier, witnesses said they had entered the city after overcoming some rebel positions with heavy shelling and machine-gun fire.

quote:

A witness contacted by the BBC in the city of Zawiya says an attempt by government forces to regain control has been repelled. The sound of car horns and celebrations could be heard over the telephone. A number of buildings in Zawiya are on fire and there is heavy black smoke over parts of the city.

quote:

Mohammed says: "[The government forces] were trying to take the square. They knew if they could take the square Zawiya would fall. But they could not. I am outside the square. Gaddafi's troops are nowhere to be seen. They have all fled. Some lost their vehicles so they had to walk from one street to another, hiding in buildings. But the rebels got them, some were killed, some captured."

Seems the time in Zawiyah is Owned O'Clock. And the forces attacking were meant to be Gaddafi's best troops. That's the first humiliating failure for Gaddafi today. Now onto humiliating failure number two.

Ras Lanuf

quote:

Rebels in Ras Lanuf opened fire on a helicopter flying overhead on Saturday morning, the Reuters news agency reports. A correspondent said there was no sign troops loyal to Col Gaddafi in the town. The government has denied the rebels' claim to be in control there.

quote:

Rebels have captured the oil port town of Ras Lanouf from pro-Gaddafi forces, according to the Associated Press.

quote:

Meanwhile, hundreds of kilometres to the east, rebels have told the Reuters news agency that they are pushing further west after driving government forces from the oil town of Ras Lanuf on Friday. They said their fighters were now in control of the small town of Bin Jawad, about 60km (38 miles) west of Ras Lanuf. One man said they had advanced to Harawa, another 15km (9 miles) further along the coast.

quote:

An Associated Press reporter in Ras Lanouf says Libya's red, black and green pre-Gaddafi monarchy flag, which has been adopted by the rebels, is now flying over the town's oil facilities, 140km (87 miles) east of the Gaddafi stronghold of Sirte.

One city defended from Gaddafi's best troops commanded by his sons, another important down captured, a town that was being used for attacks on rebel cities, and now the rebels are pusing onto a Gaddafi stronghold, capturing towns along the way. If that's not poo poo for his morale I don't know what is.

# ? Mar 5, 2011 11:10

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Zawiyah is currently being attacked again by reinforced pro-Gaddafi forces.

# ? Mar 5, 2011 11:52

Jut: May 16, 2005; by Ralp

I think a lot of the 'we beat the PG troops!' talk is overenthusiastic cock waving. Declaring victory before the war is won.
All we know is that PG troops shelled the crap out of Zawiya, withdrew and are now going back in.
I don't think CG is looking to secure and hold areas other than Tripoli anyway, if he can keep the rebels where they are, while at the same time making their life difficult, then he's in a pretty good position compared to having his forces spread too thin, trying to suppress rebellions AND hold off more rebel attacks.

# ? Mar 5, 2011 12:31

Jut: May 16, 2005; by Ralp

TangerineDream posted:

I wonder what it'll take to get Ghadaffi to use his mustard gas

What mustard gas?

# ? Mar 5, 2011 12:31

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 13:46

Narmi: Feb 26, 2008

Jut posted:

I think a lot of the 'we beat the PG troops!' talk is overenthusiastic cock waving. Declaring victory before the war is won.

They destroyed three tanks, captured two more as well as some APCs and possibly anti-aircraft guns, and have several pro-Gaddafi soldiers who've surrendered, so it's more than just "overenthusiastic cock waving."

quote:

All we know is that PG troops shelled the crap out of Zawiya, withdrew and are now going back in.

We know significantly more than that. Also there is a significant difference between withdrawing and being forced out.

# ? Mar 5, 2011 12:42

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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