Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
vegemitesandwhich
Nov 17, 2005
DiRt-y Girl

neongrey posted:

Dammit, how is there not a single copy of this goddamn book anywhere in Winnipeg? :argh:

I'm pretty certain something must have happened to delay the Canadian shipments. Went out to buy it last night in Edmonton - nothing in Chapters, and nothing in any other Chapters in the city. :( I just want to read it, that's all I ask.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Bizob
Dec 18, 2004

Tiger out of nowhere!
I finished it last night. I quite liked it, Felurian aside. I feel like it expanded the world and the consequences of Kvothe's actions to the point where he isn't just fighting Ambrose and getting whipped but is killing dozens of dudes, having a profound impact on politics, actively encouraging the spread of his own legend although there didn't seem to be a particular narrative arc, and the story just kind of winds down at the end.

All that said I understand alot of the problems that folks have with Rothfuss' writing style, themes and overall approach to sex. I think the way he approaches some of these things and the "bitter-sweet" tone of the book is attributable to the scope of the influence that Whedonism is having on, for lack of a better word, nerd culture. That can be a good thing, but it can also be a gigglesquee-OMNOMNOM-bad thing. (see the Dragon Age 2 thread in games for more evidence).

Rothfuss loves Whedon, and it shows, but Whedon's own work has some weird themes when it comes to love and sex. Buffy turns her true love into a soulless monster by sleeping with him. One of the main characters in later seasons was a demon whose whole schtick was punishing unfaithful lovers. Not sure how spergy that is of me to know, but there it is.

tirinal
Feb 5, 2007
The problem is just that it's senseless, which I find curious, because you really have to work at it to make sex senseless. It's in R. R. Martin books to add hard-boiled realism as a counterbalance to the puffs of smoke and wiggled fingers you get in high fantasy. It's in pulp romance novels to arouse bored housewives. It's in Whedon's creations to provide commentary on the rising tide of feminism or whatever. It's in ads for reasons that everybody rolls their eyes at but at least have purpose.

It's in Wise Man's fear because Kvothe needs to be a man of the world according to his checklist of requisite holistic badassness, and apparently rather than attain this by being a man of the world it instead gets neatly supplied via exhibitionist holy monks.

The part where the immortal naked sex fairy lets him have his way with her and then gapes in stark disbelief at his performance as he adroitly mentions his lost virginity was honestly the most painful moment I've had in recent literature. It was like I'd stumbled into a 4chan subforum designed to cloister those whose afflictions were too extreme to air out publicly even there.

MarshallX
Apr 13, 2004

vegemitesandwhich posted:

I'm pretty certain something must have happened to delay the Canadian shipments. Went out to buy it last night in Edmonton - nothing in Chapters, and nothing in any other Chapters in the city. :( I just want to read it, that's all I ask.

I got mine in Canada - no issues.

neongrey
Feb 28, 2007

Plaguing your posts with incidental music.

MarshallX posted:

I got mine in Canada - no issues.

Dunno then... there's not a copy in a single Coles, Chapters, or Indigo anywhere in Winnipeg, and you can't order it off their website, or off Amazon.

I guess I could try McNally Robinson but they don't keep stock showing on their website, it's kind of out of the way for me, and the big kicker is that I can reasonably expect Chapters, etc to slash that ludicrous price by like 30%, I'm not so sure I can expect that out of the other place.

And I'm not sure I really want to pay forty bucks for this thing. :psyduck:

fake edit: McNally has it on order still yet too. God, gently caress Winnipeg.

Bizob
Dec 18, 2004

Tiger out of nowhere!

Lyon posted:


Also, I think Kvothe changed his name or someone else did, Elodin freaks out when he suggests it. Kvothe probably trusted someone (Denna) with his true name and got burned, hard. His name was changed and thus he was changed, stripping him of his power. Or he changed his own name when Denna died without really knowing it. Bast is trying to help him reclaim his true name/destiny/power/etc.
...
I want to know what's in all the secret boxes.


I think you are on to something. Not only do we know from the last book that he has trouble doing sympathy now, right after he finishes a huge section describing his training and skills as a hand-to-hand fighter, he gets his rear end handed to him by 1 random soldier. Plus, very early in the book, he can't figure out what to call the apple pulp, whereas one of his inherent abilities seems to have been unconciously knowing the true name for things. Somebody figured out his true name and used it against him.

Benson Cunningham
Dec 9, 2006

Chief of J.U.N.K.E.R. H.Q.

Bizob posted:

I think you are on to something. Not only do we know from the last book that he has trouble doing sympathy now, right after he finishes a huge section describing his training and skills as a hand-to-hand fighter, he gets his rear end handed to him by 1 random soldier. Plus, very early in the book, he can't figure out what to call the apple pulp, whereas one of his inherent abilities seems to have been unconciously knowing the true name for things. Somebody figured out his true name and used it against him.

I don't think it's going to be like that. Kvothe's self imposed exile has to be because he is directly responsible for people he cares about dying. They might have died because someone got his name, but I don't think anything directly done to Kvothe is responsible for his fleeing civilization. It has to be people he cares about dying. Or his actions causing the war. Stuff like that.

Lyon
Apr 17, 2003

Benson Cunningham posted:

I don't think it's going to be like that. Kvothe's self imposed exile has to be because he is directly responsible for people he cares about dying. They might have died because someone got his name, but I don't think anything directly done to Kvothe is responsible for his fleeing civilization. It has to be people he cares about dying. Or his actions causing the war. Stuff like that.

I'm not disagreeing with that, I think he caused some major damage to his friends, Denna, the world, or something and may have changed his name without realizing it or as a punishment someone changed his name on him. His inability to perform magic well, fight, etc leads me to believe his name was changed. I'll take wild guesses at how/why but I'm sticking with his true name was changed somehow which has caused him to lose a lot of his power. I think he'll regain it in the next book, I bet we're a lot closer to the story than we're supposed to think and half of the book will be the past, and the rest will be the present. Pretty much all of his badass titles the Arcane, the Bloodless, etc have alreedy been earned. We're pretty much just waiting for him to kill the king now and touch off the current events that seem to be going on.

Lyon fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Mar 4, 2011

Bizob
Dec 18, 2004

Tiger out of nowhere!

Lyon posted:

I'm not disagreeing with that, I think he caused some major damage to his friends, Denna, the world, or something and may have changed his name without realizing it or as a punishment someone changed his name on him. His inability to perform magic well, fight, etc leads me to believe his name was changed. I'll take wild guesses at how/why but I'm sticking with his true name was changed somehow which has caused him to lose a lot of his power. I think he'll regain it in the next book, I bet we're a lot closer to the story than we're supposed to think and half of the book will be the past, and the rest will be the present.

I wouldn't be suprised if at least some portion of the next book goes from being the autobiography of Kvothe to Chronicler's historical account of events that he witnesses going forward.

Subvisual Haze
Nov 22, 2003

The building was on fire and it wasn't my fault.
Why make one door stopper fantasy trilogy when you can make two? I'm predicting the next book ends at the present with Kvothe hatting up to go save the world.

Dramatika
Aug 1, 2002

THE BANK IS OPEN
I'm going to the Houston signing on Sunday. I may or may not get a chance to ask questions. If I do, anything yall want me to ask him?

Only one on my list currently goes something like "So. Patrick. Felurian. Why exactly?"

Benson Cunningham
Dec 9, 2006

Chief of J.U.N.K.E.R. H.Q.

Dramatika posted:

I'm going to the Houston signing on Sunday. I may or may not get a chance to ask questions. If I do, anything yall want me to ask him?

Only one on my list currently goes something like "So. Patrick. Felurian. Why exactly?"

How many times would you say Kvothe leveled up? Did he multiclass to fighter or barbarian? Is Kvothe 3.5 or 4?

Subvisual Haze
Nov 22, 2003

The building was on fire and it wasn't my fault.
As a rule I find fantasy tends to work best if you just minimize the sex scenes. All too often these scenes either offer a horrifying glimpse into the bizarre fetishes of the author (gently caress you Terry Goodkind), or are so embarrassingly written I find my eyes skipping entire pages. Sure there are exceptions, Joe Abercrombie in particular seems to write his sex scenes to be hilariously realistic/awkward, but overall I find a nice fade to black ultimately saves us all from a lot of embarrassment.

Wise Man's Fear seems to aim to be an unholy defining work of fantasy loving. For the first half or so of our story young Kvothe continues his previous pattern of encounters with the opposite sex: they all instantly fall in love with his perfectness but because he's immature at relationships he somehow misses the signs that 90% of the females he meets want to ride his magic staff. I guess we're supposed to assume our 16 year old hero is either brain dead or has a sex drive less than my neutered cat.

Then halfway through the book our story takes an dizzying abrupt turn to become non-stop mind-shattering fantasy sex action. Kvothe learns to gently caress from a magical faerie (insert dozens of stupifying sexual techniques. KVOTHE performs HUNDRED PALM CARESS...IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!) and apparently sexes so well that she transforms from a devourer of men into a friendly companion who gives him hugs and wipes tears from his eyes, when they aren't spending days loving of course.

From here for rather poorly elaborated reasons we take a prolonged detour to visit what I assume is Rothfuss' dream fetish kung fu civilization. We learn that you can end STIs by never loving outside of your STI free community, I think I remember having this same idea in sex-ed back in junior high but quickly dismissed it as absolutely unfeasible and retarded. Also this civilization cannot correlate sex to reproduction...because apparently nobody has remained monogamous or abstinent long enough to notice a difference in birthing patterns. What about the really fat unhygienic people Rothfuss? Oh yeah and everyone is an exhibitionist too, sure why not.

Ultimately in the end our hero has reached a healthy opinion on human relationships: women are like lutes waiting to be played, or something equally bizarre, I really don't want to look it up again.

Wolpertinger
Feb 16, 2011

keiran_helcyan posted:

As a rule I find fantasy tends to work best if you just minimize the sex scenes. All too often these scenes either offer a horrifying glimpse into the bizarre fetishes of the author (gently caress you Terry Goodkind), or are so embarrassingly written I find my eyes skipping entire pages. Sure there are exceptions, Joe Abercrombie in particular seems to write his sex scenes to be hilariously realistic/awkward, but overall I find a nice fade to black ultimately saves us all from a lot of embarrassment.

Wise Man's Fear seems to aim to be an unholy defining work of fantasy loving. For the first half or so of our story young Kvothe continues his previous pattern of encounters with the opposite sex: they all instantly fall in love with his perfectness but because he's immature at relationships he somehow misses the signs that 90% of the females he meets want to ride his magic staff. I guess we're supposed to assume our 16 year old hero is either brain dead or has a sex drive less than my neutered cat.

Then halfway through the book our story takes an dizzying abrupt turn to become non-stop mind-shattering fantasy sex action. Kvothe learns to gently caress from a magical faerie (insert dozens of stupifying sexual techniques. KVOTHE performs HUNDRED PALM CARESS...IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!) and apparently sexes so well that she transforms from a devourer of men into a friendly companion who gives him hugs and wipes tears from his eyes, when they aren't spending days loving of course.

From here for rather poorly elaborated reasons we take a prolonged detour to visit what I assume is Rothfuss' dream fetish kung fu civilization. We learn that you can end STIs by never loving outside of your STI free community, I think I remember having this same idea in sex-ed back in junior high but quickly dismissed it as absolutely unfeasible and retarded. Also this civilization cannot correlate sex to reproduction...because apparently nobody has remained monogamous or abstinent long enough to notice a difference in birthing patterns. What about the really fat unhygienic people Rothfuss? Oh yeah and everyone is an exhibitionist too, sure why not.

Ultimately in the end our hero has reached a healthy opinion on human relationships: women are like lutes waiting to be played, or something equally bizarre, I really don't want to look it up again.


To be fair, Felurian didn't care for him so much because he was a particularly amazing lover, but because he was one of the few/only to not fall into gibbering madness and die within minutes/days (because of Heart of Stone) - presumably she fawns over all men until they 'break', and then ceases to care about them. The fact that he didn't break was his appeal

Also actually if the Adem are really that insular, and don't find foreigners appealing as a whole, STI's generally don't spontaneously develop - plus, one would presume one that did go sleeping around with foreigners would be shunned, anyway. The reproduction thing was stupid though, yes.

hot pants
Nov 11, 2008
I just finished this and holy freaking crap, what was the deal with Felurian? I'm repeating what everyone said but yeah, fairy sex went on for way too long to be of any interest to the story. The way she's introduced just seemed so abrupt as well. They finish killing some bandits, then Felurian is chilling in a grove, then boom, fairy erotica. Fae-rotica? It all was very jarring and took away from the story. Even if Kvothe had to visit the tree and get some magic cloak, they're never mentioned much or have much impact on the story. He surely could have introduced those elements without as much erotic fiction and with more impact on the story. Kvothe gets some shadow cloak and never uses it. He visits a tree that tells the future, becomes heavily traumatized, then forgets about it when he leaves fairy land. I feel that none of what was introduced was utilized properly.


Gripes aside, I enjoyed most of the story, but felt it could've been edited just a tad more.

This ain't being spoilered, but Manet is the biggest self-insertion character ever.

Bizob
Dec 18, 2004

Tiger out of nowhere!

hot pants posted:

This ain't being spoilered, but Manet is the biggest self-insertion character ever.

Haha, you are absolutely right.

Benson Cunningham
Dec 9, 2006

Chief of J.U.N.K.E.R. H.Q.

hot pants posted:


This ain't being spoilered, but Manet is the biggest self-insertion character ever.

I have no idea how I missed this. You are absolutely right.

Also, Faerotica was mentioned in the first book, and the word is awesome, so I just want to display it outside of spoiler text.

Anyway, I had this overwhelming fear that Kvothe was going to learn about women from Auri, which would basically be Rothfuss saying it's ok to gently caress retarded people. Also, if it was so easy for Kvothe to kill a handful of people by using a body as a simulacrum, why didn't Ambrose, in his infinite wealth, just have a dude killed then stab him in the heart really hard? Kvothe didn't defend against the first handful of attacks, would have been good game. In fantasy books with intricate magic systems, it's things like this which make me angry.

onefish
Jan 15, 2004

Benson Cunningham posted:

I have no idea how I missed this. You are absolutely right.

Also, Faerotica was mentioned in the first book, and the word is awesome, so I just want to display it outside of spoiler text.

Anyway, I had this overwhelming fear that Kvothe was going to learn about women from Auri, which would basically be Rothfuss saying it's ok to gently caress retarded people. Also, if it was so easy for Kvothe to kill a handful of people by using a body as a simulacrum, why didn't Ambrose, in his infinite wealth, just have a dude killed then stab him in the heart really hard? Kvothe didn't defend against the first handful of attacks, would have been good game. In fantasy books with intricate magic systems, it's things like this which make me angry.

Thoughts on the spoiler:
Ambrose didn't actually know who he was attacking when he was doing that malfeasance stuff - he was just using the blood from whoever broke into his room, right, and attacking the remainder blood where it (presumably) resided within the body of the burglar. Kvothe using the body as a simulacrum required line of sight, "alar" use (and possibly Kvothe's personally incredibly strong "alar") to convince himself that this body and that body over there are the same, etc.

Also, for all the missteps Rothfuss might make with depicting sex & romantic relations, he never sexualizes/has Kvothe sexualize Auri, so I'm not sure where that fear came from.

But yeah, Manet is totally a Rothfuss-type, not sure how I missed that, either.

onefish fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Mar 5, 2011

OxeHunden
Jan 10, 2008

Norwegian Uber Goon Connoisseur
I just put it down.

I agree with thinking: Lady lackless is Kvothe's aunt. Not having reread NOTW since august it was just in the back of my head that his mom was swooped away from nobility by his dad, etc. etc. I think the wooden chest in his room probably contains a still unopened box from the Lady.

What surprised me tho: Is that Kvothe, haven't killed the Chandrian yet. I kinda thought that would build up in this book and then the third would be how he destroys them. I guess it'll still be like that, only in "present time" rather in story mode, which is a twist I appreciate (at least so far).

I didn't have any issues with the book until: he suddenly "fast forwards". He basicly goes "The story isn't going anywhere so I'll be an exhange student for a year". It happens way too fast compared to the pace so far in the book.

The Fae world was interesting enough, the Ctaeth was a cool touch and how he got his cloak was also fine. Not impressed with Ferulian but he didn't win her with his love or what not. Elodin elaborates quickly on this guessing Kvothe's sleeping mind saw her true name. Never having actually been put in her place by a mortal, she would probably think of that interesting enough. Thank God he didn't go into Richard Morgan mode, ""Felurian sat on Kvothe's love pole in the shallow pool in the magic world, her natural magic engulfing it inside her while pulsating tiny lightning up his rear end"", each sex scene lasting 10 pages. Didn't care much for the kama sutra thing either.

Not a fan of Denna anymore. In NOTW I liked her and didn't mind the bantering between them but now I just wanted any scene with her go away as fast as possible.

The Ketan being a tai chi/yoga combo was a little sour, and that whole Adem training camp felt like an old Jackie Chan movie. STI's, how Kvothe views women and how they view man-mothers and so forth was just awkward.


In the end there are still questions I want answered. We know Cinder was in the camp but we don't know why. Saying he was just chilling with some robbers doesn't feel right because their camp was obviously much more organized than regular bandit camps. So, since they're attacking the Maer, Cinder must have some interest with him. Ctaeth tells Kvothe he will get closer to the Amyr through the Maer. I also wonder about The Chandrian, The Amyr, Bast, was the horrible Ferulian storyline a way of getting him his powers back in book 3? And so on and so forth.

Lastly I don't think Kvothe couldn't handle the two soldiers in the inn. It feels like he gave up during the fight to prove a point of being an innkeeper. There's so much emphasis on him trying to downplay himself to the innkeeper he is today. Bast is pissed at the outcome and takes care of the soldiers. No need to really so why do it unless he thinks they tipped Kvothe off without even knowing it.


I'm ranting and I'm not that good at explaining myself. I don't read that many books and I thought Name of the Wind was a 6/6 The Wise Man's Fear is more of a 4/6 for me.

We can compare Rothfuss to Abercrombie or Lynch if we want to but out of all their books (that I've read) I still like NOTW most. Lies of Locke Lamorra a close second, then Abercrombies trilogy, Red Seas Under Red Skies and then Wise Man's Fear. Haven't read "Best Served Cold" or "Heroes" so I can't comment on those.

As a side note I was surprised the comic summary of NOTW had errors in them. I could be wrong since I read it last august but in the comic they say he met Denna in Imre, getting his pipes. This isn't true, he met Denna walking up to the university with the small caravan.

OxeHunden fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Mar 6, 2011

Subvisual Haze
Nov 22, 2003

The building was on fire and it wasn't my fault.
Despite my distaste for all the weird sex scenes and Denna's continued pointless existence, overall it was a well written book. It could be a fantastic book if it just focused more on the Chandrian, Amyr, university, or magic battles.

Dramatika
Aug 1, 2002

THE BANK IS OPEN
Just finished. It got better after THAT scene, but it really spoiled the book for me. I was really enjoying it up until that point, but it just soured the whole book. I still enjoyed last 200 pages or so, but I don't know that I'm going to feel compelled to re-read this one, at least not until the third one comes out.

Tsvi
Jul 13, 2006

Oy Vey
Just finished this morning.

Overall, I enjoyed it thoroughly.

While I can see how many people can comment on the sex scenes, I wasn't really bothered. Having read Song of Ice and Fire and Sword of Truth, I can't really say there's much wrong with these for the genre. They weren't overly gratuitous. Its pretty standard to have character's in the genre moon over another character, or bang random harlots.

That said, I was surprised where it left off. From what he said at the beginning of the first book, the overall life accomplishments... the time-line of the character, I just thought it'd be more progressed.

If the innkeeper is 30ish (how I thought of him, and I think he was described), and he's 17 at the end of the book 2, been in the inn for a few years... will book three cover almost 10 years, that's roughly the duration of book 1 and 2. Will we also see any progression once the story is over...or will he just finish the telling his story and the series ends?

Bizob
Dec 18, 2004

Tiger out of nowhere!

Tsvi posted:

Just finished this morning.

Overall, I enjoyed it thoroughly.

While I can see how many people can comment on the sex scenes, I wasn't really bothered. Having read Song of Ice and Fire and Sword of Truth, I can't really say there's much wrong with these for the genre. They weren't overly gratuitous. Its pretty standard to have character's in the genre moon over another character, or bang random harlots.

That said, I was surprised where it left off. From what he said at the beginning of the first book, the overall life accomplishments... the time-line of the character, I just thought it'd be more progressed.

If the innkeeper is 30ish (how I thought of him, and I think he was described), and he's 17 at the end of the book 2, been in the inn for a few years... will book three cover almost 10 years, that's roughly the duration of book 1 and 2. Will we also see any progression once the story is over...or will he just finish the telling his story and the series ends?

I'm pretty sure that by the end of WMF, Kvothe is a bit older than 17. Isn't there some section about how time passes differently in Fae? He spent a few months there, which probably aged him quite a bit.

onefish
Jan 15, 2004

Tsvi posted:

If the innkeeper is 30ish (how I thought of him, and I think he was described), and he's 17 at the end of the book 2, been in the inn for a few years... will book three cover almost 10 years, that's roughly the duration of book 1 and 2. Will we also see any progression once the story is over...or will he just finish the telling his story and the series ends?

I think Chronicler observed that Kote/Kvothe should only have been about 25, but "seemed a lot older." Time spent in Fae probably had something to do with that, in addition to all the other stuff Kvothe must have gone through to end up where he is.

Tsvi
Jul 13, 2006

Oy Vey
But if we look at his time in Tarbean and the University, that's 5 years tops? Still gives us the duration of the first two books for book 3.

Bantaras
Nov 26, 2005

judge not, lest ye be judged.

hot pants posted:

This ain't being spoilered, but Manet is the biggest self-insertion character ever.

from a post publishing interview found at Bookbanter.net:

Interview posted:

Alex: If you could live in your world: where would you live, who would you be, and what would you do?

Patrick: I'd live at the University. I'd one of the arcanists that stays at the University, a giller. I'd teach a few small classes, enjoy the cosmopolitant atmosphere, and spend a lot of time reading books in the Archives.

Manet much ?







...I'm loving the book though

Bantaras fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Mar 7, 2011

Veskit
Mar 2, 2005

I love capitalism!! DM me for the best investing advice!
Overall it was a good read. Yes, faerotica was horrible, and All of the man-woman whatever bullshit with the kung fu tribe was bad beyond belief, but there was more good than bad. The entire hand system of showing tones was interesting, especially that Elodin knew some of them, and getting out of the university was actually refreshing to me.


Seriously though this book spent way too much time doing nothing and is moving so slowly. I couldn't imagine the book not getting him kicked out of the university at least half way through, and now he'll still be there in the third book.


Also, maybe I just didn't read into it enough, but does the cloak seem very unimpressive? The other trinkets or weapons seemed to be insanely cool, but instead gets a cloak that somewhat conceals him sometimes, and everyone seems to think is a regular cloak that's kind of pretty except for one person?

Benson Cunningham
Dec 9, 2006

Chief of J.U.N.K.E.R. H.Q.

OxeHunden posted:

I just put it down.
In the end there are still questions I want answered. We know Cinder was in the camp but we don't know why. Saying he was just chilling with some robbers doesn't feel right because their camp was obviously much more organized than regular bandit camps. So, since they're attacking the Maer, Cinder must have some interest with him. Ctaeth tells Kvothe he will get closer to the Amyr through the Maer. I also wonder about The Chandrian, The Amyr, Bast, was the horrible Ferulian storyline a way of getting him his powers back in book 3? And so on and so forth.

Lastly I don't think Kvothe couldn't handle the two soldiers in the inn. It feels like he gave up during the fight to prove a point of being an innkeeper. There's so much emphasis on him trying to downplay himself to the innkeeper he is today. Bast is pissed at the outcome and takes care of the soldiers. No need to really so why do it unless he thinks they tipped Kvothe off without even knowing it.


Right after the fight he said something to the extent of, "I almost forgot who I was there for a second. That implied to me that he could have handed those two guys their asses, but he is really, really pushing to maintain this innkeeper identity, even though he was willing to just throw it away earlier to save that kid from going to war. Kvothe - totally selfless for other people but has no sympathy at all for himself.

cuddlefish
Nov 11, 2003

That was a game.

This is paintball.

Benson Cunningham posted:

Right after the fight he said something to the extent of, "I almost forgot who I was there for a second. That implied to me that he could have handed those two guys their asses, but he is really, really pushing to maintain this innkeeper identity, even though he was willing to just throw it away earlier to save that kid from going to war. Kvothe - totally selfless for other people but has no sympathy at all for himself.

This is cool, because my take on it was the complete opposite- that he was basically saying, "I thought it was the old days and I was going to kick their scummy, bullying bandit asses, but... I can't anymore."

I guess it comes down to your perspective on who Kvothe is in the present day, how much is an act and how much is real. Although I did feel like the scene at the end when he's totally alone and tries to open the chest but can't and has to get the keys and then still can't, points towards it being a real limitation.

Bast and he actually have the conversation where Bast says, "But in book 1, you kicked monster butt!" and Kvothe says it was brains more then brawn. I think it would be really interesting if he's hiding from, say, the Chandrian more then human assassins, because his power's literally sapped, it's not just that he's washed-up and heartbroken.

MarshallX
Apr 13, 2004
Can anyone go into a bit more detail about rings in Vintas?

I had thought it was like this:
Higher sends Request to Lower: Iron
Equal to Equal: Silver
Lower to Higher: Gold

Is this correct?

MarshallX fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Mar 7, 2011

Lyon
Apr 17, 2003
That looks right to me... what were you wondering beyond that?

MarshallX
Apr 13, 2004

Lyon posted:

That looks right to me... what were you wondering beyond that?

I guess it just seemed weird to me that Kvothe would only have one of each, considering he was keeping the ones that were given to him. One would assume he would almost always have to give away his gold ring.

Lyon
Apr 17, 2003
If you remember they always offer back the rings to their visitors. Because the rest of the nobility is wealthy they leave them around as status symbols. Visiting nobles always look through the ring collection to see who has visited you, how they ranked themselves compared to you, etc. Almost none of them actually take back the rings, but they're always offered. Kvothe just actually takes them up on it, most of the nobles probably assume it's because he's a foreigner rather than because he's poor as hell.

MarshallX
Apr 13, 2004

Lyon posted:

If you remember they always offer back the rings to their visitors. Because the rest of the nobility is wealthy they leave them around as status symbols. Visiting nobles always look through the ring collection to see who has visited you, how they ranked themselves compared to you, etc. Almost none of them actually take back the rings, but they're always offered. Kvothe just actually takes them up on it, most of the nobles probably assume it's because he's a foreigner rather than because he's poor as hell.

Gotcha, makes more sense.

Serious note, book 2 is loving awesome.

MarshallX fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Mar 7, 2011

McGrady
Jun 27, 2003

The greatest lurker of all the lower class lurkers.
College Slice
I thought the first book said he was far, far older than he looked, am I misremembering or was this in reference to Bast?

Lyon
Apr 17, 2003
The reverse, he's far far younger than he looks. Kvothe is under the age of 30 but looks like someone older than that or some such. That might apply to Bast, he's Fae and much older than he looks, I remember reading he's like 150 somewhere?

War Eagle
Mar 27, 2007

Getting eaten by the Abominable Snowman, thats a freak accident.

cuddlefish posted:

This is cool, because my take on it was the complete opposite- that he was basically saying, "I thought it was the old days and I was going to kick their scummy, bullying bandit asses, but... I can't anymore."

I took it more like Benson did in that it seemed to me that he was just not kicking rear end to try and protect his identity. But now that I think about it, didn't the book have a line about Kvothe trying to use the two handed break that the little girl taught him and that he looked surprised when it failed? Though at the very end it has something about him going downstairs and making "one perfect step" which implies that if he did lose his true name, he was able to keep his Ketan somehow. I have the book on Kindle, so it's a pain in the rear end to go back and look over older sections.

Also, I agree about the Kvothe's mother angle. That seems to fit with everything in the book, and with him having the chest later on. Do we think the really soldierly guy with the Maer was an Amyr or one of the Chandrian though? That was my first thought when the hate tree said something about the Maer being closer to the Amyr than he knew, though it could have something to do with the box.

Overall, I enjoyed the book but I agree with people about THAT scene, and also I really did think he would have been kicked out of the University by the middle of the book. And when he went back to visit the city where he grew up as a street urchin, I really thought he would go talk to the priest from the first book who seemed to know more about what was going on. Deena annoys me, but I don't hate the scenes, I just want them to be over so we can get onto something thats worth a drat.

I Am Fowl
Mar 8, 2008

nononononono
You know, I don't think that the whole Felurian thing would have been so bad if they had cut everything between when he promises to return with the song and when he chats with the Hating Tree. Winning her over with the promise of an unwritten song had a wonderful fairy tale feel to it that I liked. Unfortunately, the gratuitous sex really soured the whole thing for me.

I think I liked the book most for everything up until the Felurian. Then it sort of went downhill. Sorry, Rothfuss, but you can't get away with having both a being of lust incarnate and a colony of free-loving exhibitionists in the same book without it getting extra weird.

I thought the shift away from the university at the middle was pretty funny, like he realized he was going on far too long, which is why he glossed over the shipwreck.

All in all, I liked the book. I liked Kvothe getting completely rundown when Ambrose has his blood, I liked Devi handing him his rear end as a result. I liked Elodin.

I thought the book was worthwhile, but it could have been much better. Too few questions were answered, to the point where this felt less like the second book in a trilogy, more like a part of a longer series, as some have mentioned before.


In terms of theories, I'm fond of the idea that the power loss is due to Kvothe changing his name. I remember thinking something along those lines while reading the first book, when Bast mentions how Kvothe has been playing the role of the unassuming innkeeper so well, that he has begun to forget who he was, and is suffering for it. I was under that impression that that was why his power didn't work--which makes sense when you think about it. Sympathy works by mental tricks, you believe wholeheartedly that X is really one and the same and Y, and so you can make it move or whatever. If he instead believes he is not the kind of person who can work magic, it becomes difficult or impossible.

Benson Cunningham
Dec 9, 2006

Chief of J.U.N.K.E.R. H.Q.

Mr. Fowl posted:


In terms of theories, I'm fond of the idea that the power loss is due to Kvothe changing his name. I remember thinking something along those lines while reading the first book, when Bast mentions how Kvothe has been playing the role of the unassuming innkeeper so well, that he has begun to forget who he was, and is suffering for it. I was under that impression that that was why his power didn't work--which makes sense when you think about it. Sympathy works by mental tricks, you believe wholeheartedly that X is really one and the same and Y, and so you can make it move or whatever. If he instead believes he is not the kind of person who can work magic, it becomes difficult or impossible.

And I think you really hit on what it has to be at the end there. I don't think someone else stole his name or used it against him, Kvothe honestly doesn't believe he is the same Kvothe from before. It also supports the idea that he could have poo poo housed those two guards but then he remembered who he currently was and started losing on purpose. So really, the question becomes, What is Kvothe hiding from? We know he has a thousand gold coin price on his head, but it can't be that simple. Is it something to do with his king killer title? He said he killed an angel in the first book, which I take to mean an amyr. I imagine it has to have something to do with that. Maybe a situation where he becomes so wrapped up in his own vengeance he does something realllllllly stupid and this is his self punishment for it.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Mahlertov Cocktail
Mar 1, 2010

I ate your Mahler avatar! Hahahaha!
Not quite done, but I just got through the Felurian segment. It wasn't nearly as bad/creepy as I thought it would be based on this thread (didn't read the spoiler tags, but I got the general feeling). More drawn-out than it had to be, but it still ended up having a good deal of impact on the plot with regards to the Chtaeh. Though much of the rest of it was just an excuse to get Kvothe laid, which Rothfuss could've done in a less contrived way that could make Kvothe more human to boot. But oh well.

  • Locked thread